Cyril Rioli retires!!!!!

[Toy Saint]

Who is the better small forward, Cyril or Milne?

[Cairnsman]

He was a gun. But hugely overrated.

Guys who perform on the 'big stage' are never overrated!!!!!

Cyril did that, so can not be overrated!!!!!

I actually think his GF performances were very overrated also.

I think he was the perfect fit in that team, because they had every other base covered in terms of talent, toughness and experience - so getting 10-15 touches most weeks was the icing on top of their cake. In isolation though, his performances were good-really good. Not great though.

He had freakish ability, but at a different club I reckon he'd have been thought of as somewhat of an underachiever when comparing his ability to his output.

Yep, he was the perfect fit, Cyril might have been to the Hawks what Lyon thought Lovett could be for us, X factor, freakish ability, call it whatever you like however take Cyril out of some of those Hawk GF teams and do they win them? Put Cyril in our team from 2008 to 2010 and do we win a flag. We had all bases covered through that period and an X factor player would have come in handy. Your logic for evaluating the rating of a players career or value to a team seems ambiguous and/or contradictory. Cyril was a role player and he played it so bloody well he helped his team achieve sustained success.

[Trev from the Bush]

Thought Lehmo's analogy was brilliant.

Cyril's possessions were like a dog's year. One of Cyril's possessions equaled seven of another players.

[Trev from the Bush]

Who is the better small forward, Cyril or Milne?

275 games, 574 goals says plenty for mine. But for one cruel bounce.................................ah, shite!!!

[stonecold]

Who is the better small forward, Cyril or Milne?

Apples and Pears, different types of small towards!!!!!

[Toy Saint]

Winmar or Rioli?

[Moods]

Who is the better small forward, Cyril or Milne?

275 games, 574 goals says plenty for mine. But for one cruel bounce.................................ah, shite!!!

The discussion has turned to big games and it's no comparison. Cyril was superb in 08 in his first year in the GF. Had a couple of ordinary GF's but also a couple more fantastic ones. Milney's best GF was the drawn one. the other 2 he was putrid. He played some good finals Milney, but too often went missing in big games - ppl forget that Thommo was about to sack him based on that fact.

And I loved Milney. Loved his carry on, loved his energy. But for mine if I had them both lined up - Cyril every day.

[Joffa Burns]

He was a gun. But hugely overrated.

If he is a gun, how can he be overrated?
I can understand a GOP being overrated.
What ranking is higher than a gun?
Who overrates him, other than Dermott?

[rodgerfox]

He was a gun. But hugely overrated.

If he is a gun, how can he be overrated?
I can understand a GOP being overrated.
What ranking is higher than a gun?
Who overrates him, other than Dermott?

I think Eddie Betts and Jack Steven are guns.

Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin etc. are well above them though. Albert, Lockett, Hodge another step up.

Not sure if you caught any of Fox Footy last night, but his retirement was like the Royal Wedding!

From Hawthorn's premiership teams, off the top of my head I'd choose Mitchell, Hodge, Franklin, Burgoyne and possibly Gibson ahead of Rioli.

He's a better player than all of them probably in terms of his ability, but the others delivered far more.


Overrated doesn't mean no good.

[Jacks Back]

He was a gun. But hugely overrated.

If he is a gun, how can he be overrated?
I can understand a GOP being overrated.
What ranking is higher than a gun?
Who overrates him, other than Dermott?

I think Eddie Betts and Jack Steven are guns.

Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin etc. are well above them though. Albert, Lockett, Hodge another step up.

Not sure if you caught any of Fox Footy last night, but his retirement was like the Royal Wedding!

From Hawthorn's premiership teams, off the top of my head I'd choose Mitchell, Hodge, Franklin, Burgoyne and possibly Gibson ahead of Rioli.

He's a better player than all of them probably in terms of his ability, but the others delivered far more.


Overrated doesn't mean no good.

Albert Bragg?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Bragg

[rodgerfox]

Thought Lehmo's analogy was brilliant.

Cyril's possessions were like a dog's year. One of Cyril's possessions equaled seven of another players.

I don't quite get this.

Hypothetically, as a small forward, is a Rioli possession worth more than a Betts goal? If so, how and why??

Why is a Rioli tackle worth more than a Puopolo tackle?


I really think that Bruce and the AFL media's bandwagon hype campaign for Rioli made him a better player than he actually was. Like they did with Stringer and many others, they overstate things and players in order to generate more interest and excitement.

As I said, in my opinion the dude was a gun player - but man I reckon his output is being overstated. Raw ability - yes. One of the best ever. But actual output versus raw ability? I'd take output any day.

[takeaway]

Thought Lehmo's analogy was brilliant.

Cyril's possessions were like a dog's year. One of Cyril's possessions equaled seven of another players.

I don't quite get this.

Hypothetically, as a small forward, is a Rioli possession worth more than a Betts goal? If so, how and why??

Why is a Rioli tackle worth more than a Puopolo tackle?


I really think that Bruce and the AFL media's bandwagon hype campaign for Rioli made him a better player than he actually was. Like they did with Stringer and many others, they overstate things and players in order to generate more interest and excitement.

As I said, in my opinion the dude was a gun player - but man I reckon his output is being overstated. Raw ability - yes. One of the best ever. But actual output versus raw ability? I'd take output any day.

Personally, for the sake of the game I'd take raw ability and hence excitement. Cyril brought in the crowds, lifted team mates and created excitement every time he was near the ball. The only player in the AFL Bob Murphy was worried about when he was running out of the backline with the ball was Cyril, such a great tackler. I would rather watch Cyril get 12 possessions compared to Tom Mitchell getting 35. Betts plays in a similar vein to Cyril, not sure of your point re Bett's goal re Cyril possession - a goal would be better, nearly as good as a Cyril goal.

Overrated? No way.

[parkeysainter]

Now Hawthorn has more money to target Sloane better.

[Cairnsman]

4 premiership medallions, Norm Smith medallist, 3 x AAs, and he should have been given an entertainment award for his third quarter in the 2008 GF.

How can so many people at the Hawthorn Football club have got Cyril so wrong and overrate him to gift him such an armchair ride.

Cyril was everything you pay money to go watch at an AFL game.

[rodgerfox]

Personally, for the sake of the game I'd take raw ability and hence excitement. Cyril brought in the crowds, lifted team mates and created excitement every time he was near the ball. The only player in the AFL Bob Murphy was worried about when he was running out of the backline with the ball was Cyril, such a great tackler. I would rather watch Cyril get 12 possessions compared to Tom Mitchell getting 35. Betts plays in a similar vein to Cyril, not sure of your point re Bett's goal re Cyril possession - a goal would be better, nearly as good as a Cyril goal.

Overrated? No way.

I totally get the excitement bit. But that needs to be put into perspective.

Just to use Betts as an example, and basing this on the whole 'Cyril's possessions are worth 7 for every other players 1' comment, I think that's a perfect example as to why I consider him overrated.

These are Betts' stats from his Adelaide days only....

Betts		Rioli
104	Games	189
8.7	Kicks Per Game	9.2
4.7	Handballs Per Game	5.9
13.3	Disposals Per Game	15.1
3.0	Marks Per Game	3.8
2.4	Goals Per Game	1.5
1.2	Behinds Per Game	0.8
3.1	Tackles Per Game	4.6
0.8	Frees For Per Game	1.1
0.6	Frees Against Per Game	0.8
1.0	Goal Assists	0.8
2.1	Inside 50s	2.6
1.3	Clearances	1.6
7.0	Score Involvement	5.7

Betts is only going at 1.8 disposals less, but kicks 1 more goal a game - and has more Score Involvements and Goal Assists.


If Eddie Betts retired, I hardly think Foxtel would dedicate an entire evening to him! He wouldn't be compared to Picasso and described as 'pound for pound the best ever'!

Both star players, with enormous ability and exciting to watch. But that's about where it ends for me in terms of their greatness.

[Joffa Burns]

He was a gun. But hugely overrated.

If he is a gun, how can he be overrated?
I can understand a GOP being overrated.
What ranking is higher than a gun?
Who overrates him, other than Dermott?

I think Eddie Betts and Jack Steven are guns.

Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin etc. are well above them though. Albert, Lockett, Hodge another step up.

Not sure if you caught any of Fox Footy last night, but his retirement was like the Royal Wedding!

From Hawthorn's premiership teams, off the top of my head I'd choose Mitchell, Hodge, Franklin, Burgoyne and possibly Gibson ahead of Rioli.

He's a better player than all of them probably in terms of his ability, but the others delivered far more.


Overrated doesn't mean no good.

I get your point, he's a gun but not a superstar.

I agree to an extent there is hype, but a hell of a lot of people who have played the game rate him very highly.

Plugger put fear into the opposition through ability and aggression, I'm sure Cyril put fear into his opponents as you could beat him for three quarters and he could pop up and turn the game in a 10 minute block.

Not a great modern day accumulator but a great impact player who could do the magical thing that lights up a game.

[Cairnsman]

Betts doesn't have one premiership medallion let alone 4. The hype was born in the 2008 GF and grew from there. The hype is justified based on pure entertainment alone.

How did Betts go in the GF last year?

Rightly or wrongly, the role you play in a premiership can lift you above the stats. Betts put's in a cameo appearance in last years GF and inspires his teammates to lift, he then turns into royalty. Betts GF performance last year probably detracts from a career of decent stats.

[takeaway]

Personally, for the sake of the game I'd take raw ability and hence excitement. Cyril brought in the crowds, lifted team mates and created excitement every time he was near the ball. The only player in the AFL Bob Murphy was worried about when he was running out of the backline with the ball was Cyril, such a great tackler. I would rather watch Cyril get 12 possessions compared to Tom Mitchell getting 35. Betts plays in a similar vein to Cyril, not sure of your point re Bett's goal re Cyril possession - a goal would be better, nearly as good as a Cyril goal.

Overrated? No way.

I totally get the excitement bit. But that needs to be put into perspective.

Just to use Betts as an example, and basing this on the whole 'Cyril's possessions are worth 7 for every other players 1' comment, I think that's a perfect example as to why I consider him overrated.

These are Betts' stats from his Adelaide days only....

Betts		Rioli
104	Games	189
8.7	Kicks Per Game	9.2
4.7	Handballs Per Game	5.9
13.3	Disposals Per Game	15.1
3.0	Marks Per Game	3.8
2.4	Goals Per Game	1.5
1.2	Behinds Per Game	0.8
3.1	Tackles Per Game	4.6
0.8	Frees For Per Game	1.1
0.6	Frees Against Per Game	0.8
1.0	Goal Assists	0.8
2.1	Inside 50s	2.6
1.3	Clearances	1.6
7.0	Score Involvement	5.7

Betts is only going at 1.8 disposals less, but kicks 1 more goal a game - and has more Score Involvements and Goal Assists.


If Eddie Betts retired, I hardly think Foxtel would dedicate an entire evening to him! He wouldn't be compared to Picasso and described as 'pound for pound the best ever'!

Both star players, with enormous ability and exciting to watch. But that's about where it ends for me in terms of their greatness.

"Enormous ability and exiting to watch". That's enough for me too. What else is there?

As with everything nowadays, media coverage of these things is overblown. Betts will probably get a fair coverage when he retires as well, but not the same as Cyril, because Cyril played in 4 flags, and was more exciting. It is sacrilege to quote stats for those 2, same for types like Gary Ablett snr. Football has become too robotic, dependent on game plans and output, whereas players with the x factor, add so much to the game, and to team performance, and to crowd numbers. Let's hope Daniel Rioli, Ryan from WCE and others can keep the magic happening.

[ss1986]

What is this utter crap about premierships?

It’s an obsession for fanboys to demonstrate how great Cyril was but is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Cameron Mooney won 3 premierships ffs.

Does that make him better than Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett or Plugger for that matter?

No. He won a premiership medallion without getting a touch.

It’s the stupidest “stat” in football. It’s a far greater achievement doing what Lockett did in some very ordinary teams with teammates like Jayson Daniels as opposed to Shaun Burgoyne et al.

Cyril did absolutely nothing in a hell of a lot of games - so to say you never “saw him lose a game for Hawthorn” is also utter bulltish. I saw him “cheat” a hell of a lot. In a crap team, he would have been a GOP at best. Was pure luxury in a good team, and highlighted by the fact he couldnt get near the pill in the last 2 years when Hawthorn have dropped away.

[saynta]

What is this utter crap about premierships?

It’s an obsession for fanboys to demonstrate how great Cyril was but is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Cameron Mooney won 3 premierships ffs.

Does that make him better than Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett or Plugger for that matter?

No. He won a premiership medallion without getting a touch.

It’s the stupidest “stat” in football. It’s a far greater achievement doing what Lockett did in some very ordinary teams with teammates like Jayson Daniels as opposed to Shaun Burgoyne et al.

Cyril did absolutely nothing in a hell of a lot of games - so to say you never “saw him lose a game for Hawthorn” is also utter bulltish. I saw him “cheat” a hell of a lot. In a crap team, he would have been a GOP at best. Was pure luxury in a good team, and highlighted by the fact he couldnt get near the pill in the last 2 years when Hawthorn have dropped away.

Rioli was a champion of the game. Much loved and admired.

How many AFL games did you play?

[parkeysainter]

What is this utter crap about premierships?

It’s an obsession for fanboys to demonstrate how great Cyril was but is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Cameron Mooney won 3 premierships ffs.

Does that make him better than Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett or Plugger for that matter?

No. He won a premiership medallion without getting a touch.

It’s the stupidest “stat” in football. It’s a far greater achievement doing what Lockett did in some very ordinary teams with teammates like Jayson Daniels as opposed to Shaun Burgoyne et al.

Cyril did absolutely nothing in a hell of a lot of games - so to say you never “saw him lose a game for Hawthorn” is also utter bulltish. I saw him “cheat” a hell of a lot. In a crap team, he would have been a GOP at best. Was pure luxury in a good team, and highlighted by the fact he couldnt get near the pill in the last 2 years when Hawthorn have dropped away.

The guy was a gun in all areas of the game. Give him a break. Fairdinkum.

[saynta]

What is this utter crap about premierships?

It’s an obsession for fanboys to demonstrate how great Cyril was but is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Cameron Mooney won 3 premierships ffs.

Does that make him better than Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett or Plugger for that matter?

No. He won a premiership medallion without getting a touch.

It’s the stupidest “stat” in football. It’s a far greater achievement doing what Lockett did in some very ordinary teams with teammates like Jayson Daniels as opposed to Shaun Burgoyne et al.

Cyril did absolutely nothing in a hell of a lot of games - so to say you never “saw him lose a game for Hawthorn” is also utter bulltish. I saw him “cheat” a hell of a lot. In a crap team, he would have been a GOP at best. Was pure luxury in a good team, and highlighted by the fact he couldnt get near the pill in the last 2 years when Hawthorn have dropped away.

The guy was a gun in all areas of the game. Give him a break. Fairdinkum.

ss1986 is the bloke who wanted us to back him to run the club.

He had to be kidding. .

[ss1986]

About time you have a holiday saynta....

Your incessant attacks are disappointing.

[saynta]

About time you have a holiday saynta....

Your incessant attacks are disappointing.

And your comments about a champion of the game are way off.

[Teflon]

Agree good player but it’s a bit over the top
Bout 6 pages in Hun dedicated ....he’s no RHarvey
Cmon , Milne gets kicked to the curb in these discussions because people don’t like his image but was a great SF and got nothing compared to this....