Bucky's top ten draft picks
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8904 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 269 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8904 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8904 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 269 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Smith or Walsh are the front runners for us assuming we don't start winning games. Carlton game will be very important for us. If they win we are back in with a shot at pick 2. If we win we may slip to pick 4
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8904 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
So I guess you got my PM?DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 5:17pm Smith or Walsh are the front runners for us assuming we don't start winning games. Carlton game will be very important for us. If they win we are back in with a shot at pick 2. If we win we may slip to pick 4
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 269 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Yes, thank you. As long as we don't get a King Ill be happy.
Next 5 games are Dees, Port, Carlton, Tigers & Giants. I can only see us winning 1 so I am hoping Lions, Blues and suns find some form.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
- parkeysainter
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Thu 20 Jul 2017 2:59am
- Location: Brighton Beach Mansion
- Has thanked: 84 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Great post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Who is Bucky?
Who is in his top 10?
And why post links that don't work?
Who is in his top 10?
And why post links that don't work?
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8904 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Garry Buckenara. The link works for me. I just tried it again.Enrico_Misso wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:41pm Who is Bucky?
Who is in his top 10?
And why post links that don't work?
I will PM you the article.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8904 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Look in your message box.Enrico_Misso wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:41pm Who is Bucky?
Who is in his top 10?
And why post links that don't work?
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 269 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
I have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Well saidDJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
I’m stunned so many just don’t get what this means and how important having this choice in a super draft where we have stuff all other picks is????
Just dumb
This season is no longer about winning - it’s now about the future and doing everything we can to develop, get games into kids, work out the duds and give ourselves the absolute best chance at the draft table to get (finally) an elite midfielder into the club
If losses come because of that meh???
We ain’t all of a sudden going to blitz the comp to have FAs line up for us??? It’s wake up time
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1096
- Joined: Fri 28 Nov 2014 5:33pm
- Has thanked: 331 times
- Been thanked: 268 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Dont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
What the difference between that and where we are right now?Crossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:13pmDont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
What FA is currently banging down our door?
How many members we losing right now?
How much $ is club bleeding right now..??
Again, the higher our pick the better our choices and flexibility is - if we secured the no 1 pick we could turn that into 2 guns...??? To build a side / midfield around
To pretend a few extra wins will morph us into a destination club this year is absolute folly - everyone knows our list right now isn’t up to and sadly we are outside this super draft in a big way with little real way to get back in
I recall being a basket case back in 2000, going to games watching us get pumped but I also recall the feeling of hope many in 5he stands had watching a young no 12 taken at pick 1 and just knowing the future was ok
Our fans now have no hope - there is no Harvey Hayes or Riewoldt that you can look to build around we are simply bereft of absolute elite class and suggesting a few wins over cellar dwellers this year will somehow reverse current trends is rubbish
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1096
- Joined: Fri 28 Nov 2014 5:33pm
- Has thanked: 331 times
- Been thanked: 268 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
So all the issues you have put question marks on are as a result of us going badly although membership is probably based on hope from last year. So going worse will make the problems worse as apposed to giving everyone hope by having a good back half of the year. As i Said, earlier, pick one or two or three wont guarantee a good player and more than picks 4,5,6. look at history (Weitering, McCartin, Boyd, Patton, Kruezer, MCGrath, David Swallow, Bryce Gibbs, Jack Watts, Marc Murphy - none of them turned out to be the best of their draft year atleast just yet. The best players in the game were not the ones taken at number one - i listed a few earlier.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:31pmWhat the difference between that and where we are right now?Crossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:13pmDont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
What FA is currently banging down our door?
How many members we losing right now?
How much $ is club bleeding right now..??
Again, the higher our pick the better our choices and flexibility is - if we secured the no 1 pick we could turn that into 2 guns...??? To build a side / midfield around
To pretend a few extra wins will morph us into a destination club this year is absolute folly - everyone knows our list right now isn’t up to and sadly we are outside this super draft in a big way with little real way to get back in
I recall being a basket case back in 2000, going to games watching us get pumped but I also recall the feeling of hope many in 5he stands had watching a young no 12 taken at pick 1 and just knowing the future was ok
Our fans now have no hope - there is no Harvey Hayes or Riewoldt that you can look to build around we are simply bereft of absolute elite class and suggesting a few wins over cellar dwellers this year will somehow reverse current trends is rubbish
Anyway, how do you coach to come last? we would have to lose two more games than Carlton who might be thinking what you are thinking. Do you tell the players? (Chris Connelly says Hello), play everyone out of position? , dont pick players that deserve a game? Players hate losing and will never accept tanking. Id rather breed a win at all costs culture because that will improve the other 40 players more.
So if you assume we get say pick 3, if you follow the afl points system, you would get roughly pick 14 & 15 if you wanted to turn it into 2 picks. - no thanks.
I know plenty will agree with you, but none of them will be Saints players or coaches or players or coaches from any team. Can you imagine a Clarko going for this?
- parkeysainter
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Thu 20 Jul 2017 2:59am
- Location: Brighton Beach Mansion
- Has thanked: 84 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Well said Crossy66. We will get a gun whether its pick 1 to 5. I would much prefer pick 3 - 5 to be honest for the reasons you stated.Crossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:13pmDont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
We want to build a winning culture amongst these kids and our best players. I want the Saints to win every game for the rest of the year. We need to build momentum and hope for 2019.
I really don't understand this loser tanking mentality from some. Melbourne took a decade to recover from that mindset and they ruined the careers of plenty of their high draft picks. Its fraught with danger going down that path. Very fraught and counter productive.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1233
- Joined: Fri 04 Nov 2011 3:00pm
- Has thanked: 16 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
The only way we stuff up the pick is by oicking a king btother
Barry Brooks/Tom Lee/Spencer White written all over em.
I have no doubt we will pick one of these spuds.
its gonna hurt.
Barry Brooks/Tom Lee/Spencer White written all over em.
I have no doubt we will pick one of these spuds.
its gonna hurt.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
You restate the same thing and ignore the central pointCrossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:50pmSo all the issues you have put question marks on are as a result of us going badly although membership is probably based on hope from last year. So going worse will make the problems worse as apposed to giving everyone hope by having a good back half of the year. As i Said, earlier, pick one or two or three wont guarantee a good player and more than picks 4,5,6. look at history (Weitering, McCartin, Boyd, Patton, Kruezer, MCGrath, David Swallow, Bryce Gibbs, Jack Watts, Marc Murphy - none of them turned out to be the best of their draft year atleast just yet. The best players in the game were not the ones taken at number one - i listed a few earlier.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:31pmWhat the difference between that and where we are right now?Crossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:13pmDont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
What FA is currently banging down our door?
How many members we losing right now?
How much $ is club bleeding right now..??
Again, the higher our pick the better our choices and flexibility is - if we secured the no 1 pick we could turn that into 2 guns...??? To build a side / midfield around
To pretend a few extra wins will morph us into a destination club this year is absolute folly - everyone knows our list right now isn’t up to and sadly we are outside this super draft in a big way with little real way to get back in
I recall being a basket case back in 2000, going to games watching us get pumped but I also recall the feeling of hope many in 5he stands had watching a young no 12 taken at pick 1 and just knowing the future was ok
Our fans now have no hope - there is no Harvey Hayes or Riewoldt that you can look to build around we are simply bereft of absolute elite class and suggesting a few wins over cellar dwellers this year will somehow reverse current trends is rubbish
Anyway, how do you coach to come last? we would have to lose two more games than Carlton who might be thinking what you are thinking. Do you tell the players? (Chris Connelly says Hello), play everyone out of position? , dont pick players that deserve a game? Players hate losing and will never accept tanking. Id rather breed a win at all costs culture because that will improve the other 40 players more.
So if you assume we get say pick 3, if you follow the afl points system, you would get roughly pick 14 & 15 if you wanted to turn it into 2 picks. - no thanks.
I know plenty will agree with you, but none of them will be Saints players or coaches or players or coaches from any team. Can you imagine a Clarko going for this?
Riddle me this batman: Does pick 1 in a strong draft give our recruitment team greater negotiation options yes/no?
Its not about the player in some respects (that can be stuffed up - see us) its about choice/control over your selection options
Regardless, your 'lets win to breed success' doesnt hold water - do you really think the rank and file members thought after last weeks 'enormous victory' this side is now on the road to breeding success? Do you really think think that beating up on cellar dwellars puts us on the 'road to success?'
Honestly its just all guff with no substance - a quality list with elite talent breeds success see us 2000. The draft is one of our best hopes (Id say only at the moment given how we must be a poor FA destination club right now) so to not have a strategy that maximises the use of the draft is just dumb.
If we land pick 1 we can very well argue for top 10 offerings thats choice and an enormous uplift in quality right there - I dont think Clarko (if Hawks were ever a rabble like us in our current situation) would ignore that - far to astute and pragmatic.
Would he call it tanking? No and no one would cause thats dumb. Would you tell players? you dont need to because our side knows this season is goneski already.
How do you do it? Play kids, try different players in different positions - ensure that those players who are not the future are used to fill gaps from now on in.
In the event you win games thats nice nut the ultimate prize - the prize is the development of individuals
Oh and at seasons end? sack the coach and the promise starts again.
This rebuild is over, it failed FACT.
Pretending that if we 'beat a few more Gold Coasts' will transform our culture is delusional - hell we beat a downtrodden Richmond last year and went into false hope land in a massive way, overrated the list and its now all fallen apart......why????
We dont have the elite talent we need - so get it any way you can and if that means short term pain for some longer term benefits Im in.
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Rubbish.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jun 2018 12:01amWell said Crossy66. We will get a gun whether its pick 1 to 5. I would much prefer pick 3 - 5 to be honest for the reasons you stated.Crossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:13pmDont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
We want to build a winning culture amongst these kids and our best players. I want the Saints to win every game for the rest of the year. We need to build momentum and hope for 2019.
I really don't understand this loser tanking mentality from some. Melbourne took a decade to recover from that mindset and they ruined the careers of plenty of their high draft picks. Its fraught with danger going down that path. Very fraught and counter productive.
whats fraught with danger is doing what we are doing now with no change and expecting a different result
we dont have the cattle
simple
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Mon 20 Jul 2015 6:19pm
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 14 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
"Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)"
I was recalling Lenny way back when - from memory I think Lenny was Pick 7.
Dreams can come through.
I was recalling Lenny way back when - from memory I think Lenny was Pick 7.
Dreams can come through.
- parkeysainter
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Thu 20 Jul 2017 2:59am
- Location: Brighton Beach Mansion
- Has thanked: 84 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Horse crap. Teaching kids and a team how to tank and its ok to lose a game is rubbish. Its about putting in the effort win, lose or draw - whether you think you can win or not. That is building a culture. We will get a top 5 pick regardless. Pick 5 may be just as good as 1 or 2 so we should aim to win as many as possible in 2018.Teflon wrote: ↑Sat 23 Jun 2018 10:11amRubbish.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jun 2018 12:01amWell said Crossy66. We will get a gun whether its pick 1 to 5. I would much prefer pick 3 - 5 to be honest for the reasons you stated.Crossy66 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 11:13pmDont worry about draft picks, we are going to get something between 3 and 5 and we will get a good player as there is little to no difference. History is that most number one picks dont end up been the best player over time, just the best kid at a fleeting moment in time - thats all.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 9:15pmI have to disagree with some of you points but could see why you would think that some of us want to lose. At this stage we shouldn't worry about winning rather worry about playing better. Kicking to the player, sticking tackles and kicking straight. We should also pump as many games into young players as we can this year. This is the perfect time to do this with the season gone. Let them get experience even if it means getting beaten and making mistakes.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 7:36pmGreat post Mad Dog. Some Saints fans are weird. They actually want to see fellas like Ross fail for example. Then they want the same for young fellas like Paddy so they can go "I told you so." Really odd.BringBackMadDog wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 6:52pm I can't believe the amount of people on this site who want us to lose to get a better draft pick. How has that worked for Brisbane and Carlton, Melbourne also had years of low picks. Losing just builds a losing culture it takes years to recover from that. I would rather win games and develop a winning culture in our young side. plus there won't be a lot of difference between pick 1 and pick 8, its a very even draft pool for the first 10-15 picks.
We need to win as many games as possible. We won't get past Essendon so we are looking at a top 5 pick anyway. The kid will be a gun whatever number he is.
No one wants anyone to fail we want everyone to succeed and be A grade players but it wont happen. As for the draft pool at this stage Walsh is the best midfielder and we desperately need a gun mid. He will go early, real early. Jack Lukosius is most likely to go at pick one on current form which means Sam Walsh, will go at 2, possibly 3 if whoever comes second doesn't want a mid. if we get pick 5 we will not only not get the best mid we most likely wont get the second best either. That is why some of use want to get the best available. Mind you we will most likely get the best HBF
Here's a quick list of the best players in the game: Franklin (pick 5), Dangerfield (pick 10), Martin (pick 3) Selwood (pick 7) Bont (4) Rance (18), Fyfe (20) Sloane (44), J Kelly (2), J McGovern (44), Pendlebury (5) Josh P Kennedy (3rd rnd F/S), Longer (7)
Losing creates a losing culture, no FA wants to come, players want to leave, Fans dont come, membership drops, Sponsors drop off, club loses money, SS goes into melt and so on.
We want to build a winning culture amongst these kids and our best players. I want the Saints to win every game for the rest of the year. We need to build momentum and hope for 2019.
I really don't understand this loser tanking mentality from some. Melbourne took a decade to recover from that mindset and they ruined the careers of plenty of their high draft picks. Its fraught with danger going down that path. Very fraught and counter productive.
whats fraught with danger is doing what we are doing now with no change and expecting a different result
we dont have the cattle
simple
The Saints should learn from the history books of what Melbourne did wrong. They have only just recovered and that is a just.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 269 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
I think the point has been missed here. No one is saying tank or play to lose, i agree that will not occur and is stupid. But you can now start pumping games into younger players rather than older ones. That will mean we wont have the best team on the field but we will have our future players getting games which will be better for the future.
Also the pick 5 is as good as pick 2 is silly, it really is. It is like saying pick 44 is as good as pick 2 because that is where Sloane and McGovern were picked at #44. Pick 2 is the second best pick because you get to pick any player bar one.
anyway getting back on topic beside Walsh who else do we want?
Also the pick 5 is as good as pick 2 is silly, it really is. It is like saying pick 44 is as good as pick 2 because that is where Sloane and McGovern were picked at #44. Pick 2 is the second best pick because you get to pick any player bar one.
anyway getting back on topic beside Walsh who else do we want?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Bucky's top ten draft picks
Spot on DJDJ Higgins wrote: ↑Sat 23 Jun 2018 9:03pm I think the point has been missed here. No one is saying tank or play to lose, i agree that will not occur and is stupid. But you can now start pumping games into younger players rather than older ones. That will mean we wont have the best team on the field but we will have our future players getting games which will be better for the future.
Also the pick 5 is as good as pick 2 is silly, it really is. It is like saying pick 44 is as good as pick 2 because that is where Sloane and McGovern were picked at #44. Pick 2 is the second best pick because you get to pick any player bar one.
anyway getting back on topic beside Walsh who else do we want?
These old hat drama queens just ignore the point of what a higher selection means and it’s dumb
Play kids, work out who stays who goes , who can kick stay composed and hit a target
“Yeah….nah””