Lewis Pierce

[stonecold]

Sorry Tom.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-24/s ... the-bounce



SUB-PAR kicking skills at St Kilda, both at goal and in play, have been heavily scrutinised but coaches around the competition have pinpointed another area the Saints have struggled in.

St Kilda has been thumped in the ruck.

A look at the coaches' votes shows the Saints have conceded more votes to opposing ruckmen through nine rounds than any other side, with 28.


Geelong (25) and Greater Western Sydney (22) round out the top-three, two clubs which have had noted troubles in the ruck.

Only votes by primary ruckmen were counted, rather than also considering back-up big men.

On three occasions, the opposing ruckman hasn't polled against the Saints. Two of those matches were against Geelong and GWS while the Magpies' Brodie Grundy did not manage any either last Saturday night.

Tom Hickey has been the club's primary choice since round four and has conceded 15 votes in that time, while scoring the club's only coaches votes by a ruckman this year when he had two in the draw to GWS, going up against Dawson Simpson.

Hickey has been hurt by the third-man up no longer being allowed at stoppages, which the Saints used to great effect in Hickey's career-best year of 2016.

Furthermore, he spent much of the pre-season recovering from a right shoulder reconstruction.

St Kilda experimented with its ruck situation in the first month of the season. Billy Longer lined up in the opening two games of the year after establishing himself in 2017 as the club's preferred option.

However, an interrupted pre-season seems to have affected his form and since being dropped, the 25-year-old has been underwhelming with VFL affiliate Sandringham.

Rookie Rowan Marshall was the primary ruckman in round three against Adelaide but his inexperience, having now lined up in six career matches, and a quiet run since returning from concussion, make it hard for the Saints to use him in that role.

A solution could lie with Lewis Pierce. The 23-year-old has played for Frankston this season instead of Sandringham in a deal created to allow him more opportunities to play in his preferred position, instead of in defence as he often had to do at the Zebras in 2017.

In a Dolphins team that sits fourth-last, Pierce has averaged 42 hit-outs through seven games.

St Kilda face Richmond on Saturday afternoon at the MCG, with Tiger Toby Nankervis having been rated among the competition's elite ruckmen by coach Damien Hardwick.

AFLCA votes conceded to ruckmen
1 St Kilda 28
2 Geelong 25
3 GWS 22
4 Essendon 18
5 North Melbourne 16
6 Adelaide 15
7 Port Adeleaide 12
8 Carlton 11
9 Sydney 10
10 Gold Coast 9
11 Western Bulldogs 7
12 Collingwood 5
=13 Hawthorn 4
=13 Richmond 4
=15 Fremantle 0
=15 Brisbane 0
=15 Melbourne 0
=15 West Coast 0

Cause StoneCold said so!!!!!

Catch up people!!!!!

So basically they’re saying Longer isn’t even good enough to break into the worst rucking team in the comp

If that makes you feel better, you go for it, like a little sooky blankie for you!!!!!

So basically, it's saying, you know nothing about Ruckwork, ah, hang on, I already new that!!!!!

That's the trouble with staying on mums breast too long, you'll always be a little slow and behind the rest!!!!!

Happy Suckling little man!!!!!

[The_Dud]

Sorry Tom.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-24/s ... the-bounce



SUB-PAR kicking skills at St Kilda, both at goal and in play, have been heavily scrutinised but coaches around the competition have pinpointed another area the Saints have struggled in.

St Kilda has been thumped in the ruck.

A look at the coaches' votes shows the Saints have conceded more votes to opposing ruckmen through nine rounds than any other side, with 28.


Geelong (25) and Greater Western Sydney (22) round out the top-three, two clubs which have had noted troubles in the ruck.

Only votes by primary ruckmen were counted, rather than also considering back-up big men.

On three occasions, the opposing ruckman hasn't polled against the Saints. Two of those matches were against Geelong and GWS while the Magpies' Brodie Grundy did not manage any either last Saturday night.

Tom Hickey has been the club's primary choice since round four and has conceded 15 votes in that time, while scoring the club's only coaches votes by a ruckman this year when he had two in the draw to GWS, going up against Dawson Simpson.

Hickey has been hurt by the third-man up no longer being allowed at stoppages, which the Saints used to great effect in Hickey's career-best year of 2016.

Furthermore, he spent much of the pre-season recovering from a right shoulder reconstruction.

St Kilda experimented with its ruck situation in the first month of the season. Billy Longer lined up in the opening two games of the year after establishing himself in 2017 as the club's preferred option.

However, an interrupted pre-season seems to have affected his form and since being dropped, the 25-year-old has been underwhelming with VFL affiliate Sandringham.

Rookie Rowan Marshall was the primary ruckman in round three against Adelaide but his inexperience, having now lined up in six career matches, and a quiet run since returning from concussion, make it hard for the Saints to use him in that role.

A solution could lie with Lewis Pierce. The 23-year-old has played for Frankston this season instead of Sandringham in a deal created to allow him more opportunities to play in his preferred position, instead of in defence as he often had to do at the Zebras in 2017.

In a Dolphins team that sits fourth-last, Pierce has averaged 42 hit-outs through seven games.

St Kilda face Richmond on Saturday afternoon at the MCG, with Tiger Toby Nankervis having been rated among the competition's elite ruckmen by coach Damien Hardwick.

AFLCA votes conceded to ruckmen
1 St Kilda 28
2 Geelong 25
3 GWS 22
4 Essendon 18
5 North Melbourne 16
6 Adelaide 15
7 Port Adeleaide 12
8 Carlton 11
9 Sydney 10
10 Gold Coast 9
11 Western Bulldogs 7
12 Collingwood 5
=13 Hawthorn 4
=13 Richmond 4
=15 Fremantle 0
=15 Brisbane 0
=15 Melbourne 0
=15 West Coast 0

Cause StoneCold said so!!!!!

Catch up people!!!!!

So basically they’re saying Longer isn’t even good enough to break into the worst rucking team in the comp

If that makes you feel better, you go for it, like a little sooky blankie for you!!!!!

So basically, it's saying, you know nothing about Ruckwork, ah, hang on, I already new that!!!!!

That's the trouble with staying on mums breast too long, you'll always be a little slow and behind the rest!!!!!

Happy Suckling little man!!!!!

Ooooh, you seem to be getting a bit salty old man, maybe because your boy Longer is struggling to get a game in the VFL

Hickey is the best ruckman at our club, all I’ve ever said, this article just confirms it, thanks!

[Scollop]

Just all like stats they need to be broken down, and you don't simply get a correlation or conclusion by looking at these pure voting numbers without looking at other KPI's. I'm pretty certain I know where the author got their intel about the 3rd man up and relating that to Hickey... No doubt from SS.

I can't be stuffed loking up the coaches votes but I'd be pretty sure that Stef Martin would have polled against Billy and maybe even Totty also got votes against Billy. If you take out those games, maybe we'd be somewhere in the middle as a club. I'm also positive that if all our players were contributing and playing their role as well is Tom is at the moment, we'll be competitive in a lot more matches

[stonecold]

No shame in being wrong Ladies, you should be accustomed to it by now!!!!!

Next I spose, I'll be accused of writing the article!!!!!

[Scollop]

No shame in being wrong Ladies, you should be accustomed to it by now!!!!!

Next I spose, I'll be accused of writing the article!!!!!

You are wrong.

With your lovechild palying in Rnds 1 and 2 the scoring is 11. That's 11 votes to the opposition ruckmen when Billy played as our number one ruck in the first two rounds. We were lucky that Billy was dropped otherwise god knows what the opposition rucks would have scored if he kept up that average

Tom's opponents have also scored votes from coaches but Tom's avergae against is close to half of what Billy's opponents were scoring

[The_Dud]

Just all like stats they need to be broken down, and you don't simply get a correlation or conclusion by looking at these pure voting numbers without looking at other KPI's. I'm pretty certain I know where the author got their intel about the 3rd man up and relating that to Hickey... No doubt from SS.

I can't be stuffed loking up the coaches votes but I'd be pretty sure that Stef Martin would have polled against Billy and maybe even Totty also got votes against Billy. If you take out those games, maybe we'd be somewhere in the middle as a club. I'm also positive that if all our players were contributing and playing their role as well is Tom is at the moment, we'll be competitive in a lot more matches

Good point. By the looks of it Longer gave up 6 votes to Martin and 5 to Goldy, so that’s well over a third of the 28 right there, nice job Billy!
Then round 3 Marshall gave up 2 to Jacobs.
So basically Longer and Marshall gave up 13 votes in 3 rounds, and Hickey 15 in 6... says it all really!

Ol’ stoney is going to be super salty about this one

[Scollop]

Talk about putting your foot in it

I think with saynta posting the article and putting "Sorry Tom" at the top you'd think that the votes were an indictment on Tom. The journalist also may have plaguerised from info he read here on this forum or others and implied that Tom was not rucking as well as he was in 2016 and his form and effectiveness as a ruckman had dropped off. Poor journalism and a s*** article

[stonecold]

Whatever ladies, spin it how you want it, Billy only played a half against Goldy, if we can get a win with Tom as #1 and he contributes, I'll be quite, Tom has played 70 odd games for how many wins?????

By the way champions, Martin is right up there with Gawn, think about that MOFO's!!!!!

Enjoy the footy this weekend, let's hope Tom can bring something to the table and get us a win!!!!!

[spert]

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, but Hickey is doing OK generally, and is far more skillful around the ground than Longer- and can take a contested mark!. The big issue is getting the midfield and forward line working as a unit- the ruckman can get 50 hitouts to a teammate or to the ground, but if the ball is then getting butchered by hand and foot, then it means very little.

[SuperDuper]

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, but Hickey is doing OK generally, and is far more skillful around the ground than Longer- and can take a contested mark!. The big issue is getting the midfield and forward line working as a unit- the ruckman can get 50 hitouts to a teammate or to the ground, but if the ball is then getting butchered by hand and foot, then it means very little.

Yep.. all that is relevant right now is that Hickey is the best we have.
Marshall a work in progress but needs to improve over the next year, Billy is regressing.. Lewis Pierce looks like a good VFL player but it is not clear if he has another gear left in him... can he step up another level at this stage?

[samoht]

We really don't have much to cheer about. Hickey may be our best option, but Grundy is averaging 22 possessions/game this year - and is playing like a midfielder.
We don't have a player like that.

[saynta]

Stats can be twisted to suit any argument, but Hickey is doing OK generally, and is far more skillful around the ground than Longer- and can take a contested mark!. The big issue is getting the midfield and forward line working as a unit- the ruckman can get 50 hitouts to a teammate or to the ground, but if the ball is then getting butchered by hand and foot, then it means very little.

Yep.. all that is relevant right now is that Hickey is the best we have.
Marshall a work in progress but needs to improve over the next year, Billy is regressing.. Lewis Pierce looks like a good VFL player but it is not clear if he has another gear left in him... can he step up another level at this stage?

I think so. I have impressed with what little I have seen.

[samoht]

Good pick up by scollop - so Longer conceded 11 votes in only 2 games! I guess Hickey is not as bad as some would paint him out to be.

[Crossy66]

Good pick up by scollop - so Longer conceded 11 votes in only 2 games! I guess Hickey is not as bad as some would paint him out to be.

And so in continues... As many have stated earlier, Billy had little preseason, came in with an injury and shouldnt have played Rd1 or 2. Cant use this as a basis for any balanced argument. Also, i dont think anyone here disputes that Hickey's strength is not hitouts its more what he does around the ground. The real discussion is more to do with how highly we rate the importance of hitouts and clearance / stoppage work by ruckman. Some do some dont. GT was one that didnt for example. Some posters on here dont and some do.

[IluvHarvey]

I don't understand why so many people get caught up in the Ruckman debate.
Let's be honest, we don't have a ruckmans asshole!
When the argument turns to who is worse the team is in strife.
Clean them all out and throw big $$ to someone decent.

[Scollop]

I don't understand why so many people get caught up in the Ruckman debate.
Let's be honest, we don't have a ruckmans asshole!
When the argument turns to who is worse the team is in strife.
Clean them all out and throw big $$ to someone decent.

Need to clean out the head recruiter before any new recruiting takes place. I also think the coaching has been poor

I was very dissapointed when Tom was not given a chance to adapt and improve in 2017, after having such a good year in 2016. Third man up or not, I believe that he is still developing his craft. I was annoyed the way he was relegated and the way the coach dismissed any notion of bringing him back even when Longer had games where he'd get under 5 disposals. Who does that when a guy has proven he can perform consistently as Tom did throughout 2016?

[Scollop]

Tom has played 70 odd games for how many wins?????

By the way champions, Martin is right up there with Gawn, think about that MOFO's!!!!!

Richo dropped Hickey after we played Brisbane and then Collingwood in 2017 in rnds 3 and 4. So you're saying Martin was way too good for Longer this year but Hickey should have beaten Martin last year and that was reason enough for Richo to bag him and relegate him to the magoos for the year?

I've looked at the win loss for Hickey in 2015/2016/2017 versus the won loss when Lonegr played in those 3 years. It's neck and neck so your little question about 'how many wins' Tom has played is meaningless. Think about that Brofo

[skeptic]

Putting this pi$$ing match aside for a moment...

Pierce is pbly in the best form of his career.

If now is not the time to play him, then when. Give him 3-4 games and see if he can do anything

[stonecold]

Tom has played 70 odd games for how many wins?????

By the way champions, Martin is right up there with Gawn, think about that MOFO's!!!!!

Richo dropped Hickey after we played Brisbane and then Collingwood in 2017 in rnds 3 and 4. So you're saying Martin was way too good for Longer this year but Hickey should have beaten Martin last year and that was reason enough for Richo to bag him and relegate him to the magoos for the year?

I've looked at the win loss for Hickey in 2015/2016/2017 versus the won loss when Lonegr played in those 3 years. It's neck and neck so your little question about 'how many wins' Tom has played is meaningless. Think about that Brofo

Neck and neck, that's a very kind assessment, plus, once again, you just chose a block of years that suits, funny that!!!!!

So, in your 'manufactured stats', Billy still ahead in the Neck and neck race, isn't he!!!!!!

Funny how a bloke who is apparently is Struggling to get a VFL game, was in the best two players last week (as named by coaches) and named emergency for this game!!!!!

That would suggest that your boy, Hickledik better do well tomorrow!!!!!

Also, stop trying to tell me what I'm saying, please and thank you!!!!!

Blind Freddie knows Longer played rnds 1 and 2 injured, only played because Hickey was showing nothing in the twos at the time, even went with Marshall in rnd 3, because of a lack of form on Hickey's part!!!!!

Tom needs to become an identity, simple, if he can do that then he will stay!!!!!

[The_Dud]

Still making excuses for Longer being injured? Is that 10 weeks in a row now?

And what of Hickeys interrupted pre-season recovering from a shoulder reco, choosing to ignore that one are we?

I’m glad being picked in the emergencies for the firsts is seen as a real accomplishment for Longer

[To the top]

What the faunicated moron who is unable to count to 99 and therefore incapable of changing hands overlooks is that Hickey played 2017 under duress then post season surgery on a shoulder, surgery which limited his 2018 preparation.

When forced to play against Essendon, Hickey had missed matches due to a bye and injury, then rested the day after Longer injured himself crashing a pack to take a vital match saving grab (I am only at 98!) so played that match off that preparation and with the injury which resulted in the post season surgery.

Be interesting to see the response from the faunicated moron.

A laugh over breakfast is always a good start to the day!!!

[stonecold]

What the faunicated moron who is unable to count to 99 and therefore incapable of changing hands overlooks is that Hickey played 2017 under duress then post season surgery on a shoulder, surgery which limited his 2018 preparation.

When forced to play against Essendon, Hickey had missed matches due to a bye and injury, then rested the day after Longer injured himself crashing a pack to take a vital match saving grab (I am only at 98!) so played that match off that preparation and with the injury which resulted in the post season surgery.

Be interesting to see the response from the faunicated moron.

A laugh over breakfast is always a good start to the day!!!

Boring, same old s*** from someone who has never graced a football field!!!!!

Abuse, hiding behind a keyboard, what a f****** hero you are!!!!!

If only you knew who you were trying to insult, you little pissant!!!!!

You'd have less presence than Hickey does at a centre bounce, go away, hope your legs work as quickly as your mouth!!!!!

Keyboard Cowboy, let's see how long Tom can last, three more matches at least, well for his sake anyway!!!!!

[skeptic]

If only you knew who you were trying to insult, you little pissant!!!!!

You can’t really keep using this line... not that it’s overly relevant. The argument theme of I know I’m right but can’t tell you right is really rather sad.

You really should spill the beans or stop bringing it up

[The_Dud]

If only you knew who you were trying to insult, you little pissant!!!!!

You can’t really keep using this line... not that it’s overly relevant. The argument theme of I know I’m right but can’t tell you right is really rather sad.

You really should spill the beans or stop bringing it up

I think his supposed football career was about as legitimate as his namesakes championship belts

[stonecold]

If only you knew who you were trying to insult, you little pissant!!!!!

You can’t really keep using this line... not that it’s overly relevant. The argument theme of I know I’m right but can’t tell you right is really rather sad.

You really should spill the beans or stop bringing it up

I think his supposed football career was about as legitimate as his namesakes championship belts

Keep telling you, third man rule is no longer, but you just carnt help yourself, safety in numbers, all be it irrelevant numbers!!!!!