How did Billy Longer go?

[stonecold]

If Longer was "not fit, limited preseason" as stonecold says why did AR select him?
And that is exactly why we see the problem with Hickey - he knows the coach prefers another and thats that ( i pray it doesnt inhibit Marshalls progress to no.1 spot and he either gives it away or looks elsewhere)
Hickeys average is better than longers best - he adds to the midfield and forward line - sorry stonecold players dont really ever change their game style over the course

Remember hickey getting thrown to the wolves last year in that game against Port - how much leeway was he given by the coaching staff ( and most fans)
Lets see if the coach realises that Longer is not ready and selects another???

Hickledik is cooked, finished, would have thought it was obvious to even Blind Freddie, but apparently not!!!!! Adds to the midfield and forward, maybe? But provides NO protection for our mids!!!!!

Thrown to the Wolves is a bit over the top, provided with an opportunity and failed and was an embarrassment to the jumper was how one official put it!!!!!

[stonecold]

If Longer was "not fit, limited preseason" as stonecold says why did AR select him?
And that is exactly why we see the problem with Hickey - he knows the coach prefers another and thats that ( i pray it doesnt inhibit Marshalls progress to no.1 spot and he either gives it away or looks elsewhere)
Hickeys average is better than longers best - he adds to the midfield and forward line - sorry stonecold players dont really ever change their game style over the course

Remember hickey getting thrown to the wolves last year in that game against Port - how much leeway was he given by the coaching staff ( and most fans)
Lets see if the coach realises that Longer is not ready and selects another???

Hickledik is cooked, finished, would have thought it was obvious to even Blind Freddie, but apparently not!!!!! Adds to the midfield and forward, maybe? But provides NO protection for our mids!!!!!

Thrown to the Wolves is a bit over the top, provided with an opportunity and failed and was an embarrassment to the jumper was how one official put it!!!!!

[Scollop]

Who can we sacrifice for the 'bash and crash' (as samoht put it)?

What about Gilbo? He's done it before, he competes in the air and has a good tank. I'd rather have a bloke in the middle who can compete when the footy is on the deck and there's a 50/50 contest rather than a dinasaur like Billy.

Didn't Luke Beveridge have Lin Jong and even the Bont and Libba going up in ruck contests in the last few years?

[dragit]

If Longer was "not fit, limited preseason" as stonecold says why did AR select him?
And that is exactly why we see the problem with Hickey - he knows the coach prefers another and thats that ( i pray it doesnt inhibit Marshalls progress to no.1 spot and he either gives it away or looks elsewhere)
Hickeys average is better than longers best - he adds to the midfield and forward line - sorry stonecold players dont really ever change their game style over the course

Remember hickey getting thrown to the wolves last year in that game against Port - how much leeway was he given by the coaching staff ( and most fans)
Lets see if the coach realises that Longer is not ready and selects another???

Hickledik is cooked, finished, would have thought it was obvious to even Blind Freddie, but apparently not!!!!! Adds to the midfield and forward, maybe? But provides NO protection for our mids!!!!!

Thrown to the Wolves is a bit over the top, provided with an opportunity and failed and was an embarrassment to the jumper was how one official put it!!!!!

That is just bulls*** and an embarrassment to the fans if an official from the club actually said that…

Compare Hickey's game against Brisbane last year to what Longer just put up - FMD, blind freddie could have performed better than Billy did.

[sunsaint]

If an official really did describe "that" game as an embarrassment to the jumper - then I would suggest hickey go else where because his goose is cooked at StFC
and if memory serves correct Hickey was elevated underdone and recovering from injury - so where is the balance of judgement here?
A great way to get "thrown" to the wolves Paddy Ryder in AA form - does Longer get judged the same against the games best - nope
Fact is Hickeys 2016 was way better than Longers 2017
The modern ruck must be able to play below his knees - be able to kick and and handball effectively and kick goals - simple formula for comparison here

[skeptic]

Haven’t seen the game yet but I’ve noted that we were smashed in the hit outs.

Was he fit?

Did he manage to get to some contests?



What happened here

Struggled, not fit, limited preseason, which the fact that he played ahead of Hickledik says a lot about where Tom is at!!!!!

I would say it says a hell of a lot more about the coaching team and not in a positive way...

The fact that they would pick an unfit kid with a limited preseason ahead of three other fit options albeit none perfect suggests that they can’t develop talent (Pierce), don’t have the courage to play promising youth (Marshall), and don’t have faith in themselves to turn around struggling talent (Hickey).

I mean heck Holmes would have been a better pick on Saturday, he can at least tap the ball.

[saintsRrising]

I tend to think that Hickey has given up as he know that the powers that be prefer Longer.

[stonecold]

I tend to think that Hickey has given up as he know that the powers that be prefer Longer.

If that's the case, that's weak as piss, any wonder he is not getting picked!!!!!

[stonecold]

If Longer was "not fit, limited preseason" as stonecold says why did AR select him?
And that is exactly why we see the problem with Hickey - he knows the coach prefers another and thats that ( i pray it doesnt inhibit Marshalls progress to no.1 spot and he either gives it away or looks elsewhere)
Hickeys average is better than longers best - he adds to the midfield and forward line - sorry stonecold players dont really ever change their game style over the course

Remember hickey getting thrown to the wolves last year in that game against Port - how much leeway was he given by the coaching staff ( and most fans)
Lets see if the coach realises that Longer is not ready and selects another???

Hickledik is cooked, finished, would have thought it was obvious to even Blind Freddie, but apparently not!!!!! Adds to the midfield and forward, maybe? But provides NO protection for our mids!!!!!

Thrown to the Wolves is a bit over the top, provided with an opportunity and failed and was an embarrassment to the jumper was how one official put it!!!!!

That is just bulls*** and an embarrassment to the fans if an official from the club actually said that…

Compare Hickey's game against Brisbane last year to what Longer just put up - FMD, blind freddie could have performed better than Billy did.

How the f*** can anyone in their right mind compare someone's game last year to someone else's this year????? Delusional!!!!

[dragit]

I tend to think that Hickey has given up as he know that the powers that be prefer Longer.

Very poor management if true, his best is clearly very good so they should be doing everything they can to extract it from him. What hope does Hickey have though if Longer continues to be selected after performances like last week.

Another pearler at the draft / trade table… thank god Roberton walked to us for free that year.

#12, #13 (Goddard), #36, Cripps, #45, #55 > Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Dennis-Lane, Murdoch, Saunders, Pierce

Grundy taken at #18 hurts.

[dragit]

How the f*** can anyone in their right mind compare someone's game last year to someone else's this year????? Delusional!!!!

Why compare anything pork chop?

Martin was the last decent ruckmen that they have both faced, so I would think that is a pretty good place to start to see how the two compare.

[stonecold]

How the f*** can anyone in their right mind compare someone's game last year to someone else's this year????? Delusional!!!!

Why compare anything pork chop?

Martin was the last decent ruckmen that they have both faced, so I would think that is a pretty good place to start to see how the two compare.

Entitled to your opinion!!!!!

[sunsaint]

If Longer was "not fit, limited preseason" as stonecold says why did AR select him?
And that is exactly why we see the problem with Hickey - he knows the coach prefers another and thats that ( i pray it doesnt inhibit Marshalls progress to no.1 spot and he either gives it away or looks elsewhere)
Hickeys average is better than longers best - he adds to the midfield and forward line - sorry stonecold players dont really ever change their game style over the course

Remember hickey getting thrown to the wolves last year in that game against Port - how much leeway was he given by the coaching staff ( and most fans)
Lets see if the coach realises that Longer is not ready and selects another???

Hickledik is cooked, finished, would have thought it was obvious to even Blind Freddie, but apparently not!!!!! Adds to the midfield and forward, maybe? But provides NO protection for our mids!!!!!

Thrown to the Wolves is a bit over the top, provided with an opportunity and failed and was an embarrassment to the jumper was how one official put it!!!!!

Sorry I royally screwed up and meant the EFC game in 2017 that hickey copped it not port
But on your point about protection - what does that mean? Crash n bash ? I didn't see him laying any tackles in the brissy game!

[degruch]

If an official really did describe "that" game as an embarrassment to the jumper - then I would suggest hickey go else where because his goose is cooked at StFC
and if memory serves correct Hickey was elevated underdone and recovering from injury - so where is the balance of judgement here?
A great way to get "thrown" to the wolves Paddy Ryder in AA form - does Longer get judged the same against the games best - nope
Fact is Hickeys 2016 was way better than Longers 2017
The modern ruck must be able to play below his knees - be able to kick and and handball effectively and kick goals - simple formula for comparison here

Bit harsh re: Port game...but his Essendon game was hands down the worst I'd ever seen from any player in a St Kilda jumper. Was it the last one he played? If so, that adds up...why not move him on during the trade period? Possibly little value.

I'd agree he WAS better than Longer, but we didn't see that form in 2017.

[stonecold]

If an official really did describe "that" game as an embarrassment to the jumper - then I would suggest hickey go else where because his goose is cooked at StFC
and if memory serves correct Hickey was elevated underdone and recovering from injury - so where is the balance of judgement here?
A great way to get "thrown" to the wolves Paddy Ryder in AA form - does Longer get judged the same against the games best - nope
Fact is Hickeys 2016 was way better than Longers 2017
The modern ruck must be able to play below his knees - be able to kick and and handball effectively and kick goals - simple formula for comparison here

Bit harsh re: Port game...but his Essendon game was hands down the worst I'd ever seen from any player in a St Kilda jumper. Was it the last one he played? If so, that adds up...why not move him on during the trade period? Possibly little value.

I'd agree he WAS better than Longer, but we didn't see that form in 2017.

As previously stated, club has tried to move Hickledik on, not one club was interested!!!!!

[Drake Huggins]

If an official really did describe "that" game as an embarrassment to the jumper - then I would suggest hickey go else where because his goose is cooked at StFC
and if memory serves correct Hickey was elevated underdone and recovering from injury - so where is the balance of judgement here?
A great way to get "thrown" to the wolves Paddy Ryder in AA form - does Longer get judged the same against the games best - nope
Fact is Hickeys 2016 was way better than Longers 2017
The modern ruck must be able to play below his knees - be able to kick and and handball effectively and kick goals - simple formula for comparison here

Bit harsh re: Port game...but his Essendon game was hands down the worst I'd ever seen from any player in a St Kilda jumper. Was it the last one he played? If so, that adds up...why not move him on during the trade period? Possibly little value.

I'd agree he WAS better than Longer, but we didn't see that form in 2017.

As previously stated, club has tried to move Hickledik on, not one club was interested!!!!!

Nor were they interested in Billy the year before, SC. in Billy's defence, GWS had a sniff, but what does it do for a young man's confidence when he is repeatedly on the trade table. Both are at their second clubs in their early to mid twenties. Makes you feel kind of unwanted. Especially when as big blokes they need time. Better off moving some of our asst. coaches who seem to be part of the furniture. I suspect Billy was underdone and coming straight off an injury. He seemed to have trouble taking off. If Billy was underdone, then the coaches need a Pauline Hanson, "please explain." Their treatment of Hickey has not done him any favours either. (See my post on ruckmen)

[Joffa Burns]

How did Billy longer go?

BOG and in line for AA according to my old mate LF - Stonefish
Hickledik is not the answer in case you missed this info along the way.

Given we were smashed at stoppages and he is hopeless around the ground (even on his best day) I'd love the coaches to be bold and try something new.
Put Bruce in the ruck as a running tall mid, can't get smashed more at the stoppages than we did against the Bears and he can be dangerous running forward and can defend his opponent in the back half.

While we are at it move on from Brown and get another runner in the back half with some foot skills.
We try and play with Robbo spare most of the time so why do we need a negative defender who can spoil and nothing else?
Yes a smaller player may concede a mark from time to time but most attacks start off half back.

If we do more of the same with the lumbering Billy, the treacle slow Webster and the one dimensional Brown etc we are going to finish 9th - 13th IMO.
Why not try something new and go fleet of foot.

[CQ SAINT]

Marshall in the emergencies suggested some doubt Billy was up to it. 3 weeks at Sandringham would be good for Billy and Tom.

Play Marshall now. Get him to run with Goldstein and play deep forward when resting and lets see what he can do.

He is fit and has built skill, condition and form rapidly for a young kid who was overlooked in his draft year and in most opinions nothing special as a junior. He looks ripe right now.

Give him a go. Saturday reinforced that we have little to lose and much to gain.

[saintsRrising]

Put Bruce in the ruck as a running tall mid, can't get smashed more at the stoppages than we did against the Bears and he can be dangerous running forward and can defend his opponent in the back half.

.

Sorry but from what we have seen in the ruck from Bruce in the past, the one thing that would happen is exactly that we would get smashed even more at the stoppages. In the past we have seen games swing against us when he has gone in as the relief ruck stint.

I very much like Bruce as a forward, and even mobile link player, but as a ruckman he is clueless. He simply not the answer.

If you want to go down this path I would play Gilbert (only as a stop gap mind you) as he will ruck better than Bruce and as a mid is good in heavy traffic, is a great tackler who will win more ball. downside is his kicking at times. But he would win it far, far more than Longer and importantly too would get to more situations to impact by just applying pressure etc.

[dragit]

We need three Carlisles.

[degruch]

We need three Carlisles.

That's a thought...2m tall, highly mobile, can go forward or back...hmmm.

[stonecold]

Posters on this forum just need a whipping boy, Billy's turn at the minute!!!!!

Part and parcel for some, comes with supporting the Saints with some posters, par for course!!!!!

How about enjoying a group of 'Young Guys' and enjoy the fact we actually had a 'Win', no, let's stay negative instead!!!!!

Disappointing!!!!!

[dragit]

Posters on this forum just need a whipping boy, Billy's turn at the minute!!!!!

Part and parcel for some, comes with supporting the Saints with some posters, par for course!!!!!

How about enjoying a group of 'Young Guys' and enjoy the fact we actually had a 'Win', no, let's stay negative instead!!!!!

Disappointing!!!!!

Says the bloke who constantly refers to one of our players with the suffix "DIK"

[saintsRrising]

We need three Carlisles.

Right here and now if you look at his form at the Dons when he was in the ruck he would probably be our best ruck option. Though do we want to lose him from being our key intercept Defender?

Marshall is not ready to be a full time ruckman. But maybe a Marshall/Carlisle combination where Carlisle plays 30% in the ruck.

Marshall has in the VFL played ok in defence and and up forward and so does not just have to warm the pine when not rucking.

[Joffa Burns]

Put Bruce in the ruck as a running tall mid, can't get smashed more at the stoppages than we did against the Bears and he can be dangerous running forward and can defend his opponent in the back half.

.

Sorry but from what we have seen in the ruck from Bruce in the past, the one thing that would happen is exactly that we would get smashed even more at the stoppages. In the past we have seen games swing against us when he has gone in as the relief ruck stint.

I very much like Bruce as a forward, and even mobile link player, but as a ruckman he is clueless. He simply not the answer.

If you want to go down this path I would play Gilbert (only as a stop gap mind you) as he will ruck better than Bruce and as a mid is good in heavy traffic, is a great tackler who will win more ball. downside is his kicking at times. But he would win it far, far more than Longer and importantly too would get to more situations to impact by just applying pressure etc.

I agree Bruce is not a ruckman, just looking for a mobile option.
Disagree we could be less effective at stoppages than we were against the Bears, we got smashed.

Let me have Brown and Webster out and Bruce goes to defence with Coffield included.