2018
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2018
Without any comment on the views/opinions of others, my one and only contribution is that, ahead of Season 2018, I would sift the St Kilda List into 7 categories:-
Carlisle, Roberton (courtesy of being in contention for All Australian selection in 2017)
Steven, Armitage, Gilbert
McCartin, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Battle, Clark, Coffield, Clavarion
Ross, Newnes, Sinclair
Freeman, Goddard
Hickey, Savage, Steele, Longer, Logan, Stevens, Bruce, Membrey, Weller
The remainder
The third category, starting with Mc Cartin will be the driver of any success in 2018
Support and leadership will be required from categories 1, 2 and 4 as a not negotiable
Absolutely vital, given the requirements on Steven, is category 5 is particularly Freeman whose successful progress from pushing for Senior selection off the back of 2017 VFL performances is an absolute requirement.
Category 6 will need to evidence they can impact of the results of matches including on a consistent basis
Category 7 is the remainder where, hopefully, pressure maintains on the other required categories in the case of form lapses and under achievement
So a year of fingers crossed, look at individual performances and hope
Carlisle, Roberton (courtesy of being in contention for All Australian selection in 2017)
Steven, Armitage, Gilbert
McCartin, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Battle, Clark, Coffield, Clavarion
Ross, Newnes, Sinclair
Freeman, Goddard
Hickey, Savage, Steele, Longer, Logan, Stevens, Bruce, Membrey, Weller
The remainder
The third category, starting with Mc Cartin will be the driver of any success in 2018
Support and leadership will be required from categories 1, 2 and 4 as a not negotiable
Absolutely vital, given the requirements on Steven, is category 5 is particularly Freeman whose successful progress from pushing for Senior selection off the back of 2017 VFL performances is an absolute requirement.
Category 6 will need to evidence they can impact of the results of matches including on a consistent basis
Category 7 is the remainder where, hopefully, pressure maintains on the other required categories in the case of form lapses and under achievement
So a year of fingers crossed, look at individual performances and hope
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Re: 2018
The fact that you have had a continual axe to grind against our skipper and you don’t even deem to name him here gives you a serious credibility issue
Fqf
Fqf
" A few will never give up on you. When you go back out on the field, those are the people I want in your minds. Those are the people I want in your hearts."
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— Coach Eric Taylor - Friday Night Lights
- dragit
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Re: 2018
I'm confused…
Why are Steven & Gilbert in the same category?
Billings, Acres with Battle & Clavarion?
If Freeman and Goddard have their own category declared absolutely vital, we are rooted.
Why are Steven & Gilbert in the same category?
Billings, Acres with Battle & Clavarion?
If Freeman and Goddard have their own category declared absolutely vital, we are rooted.
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Re: 2018
And also missing is the Category for the usual rant & railing against the Murdoch Press and conservative governments.terry smith rules wrote:The fact that you have had a continual axe to grind against our skipper and you don’t even deem to name him here gives you a serious credibility issue
Fqf
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Re: 2018
If we are to play finals, we need to find 2 more wins this season, which means many of those players are going to have to step up. My worry is still our inability to kick enough goals.
Think of me long enough to make a memory.
- Joffa Burns
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Re: 2018
… and no reference to trickle-down economics, Donald trump or false historical information from the Gough Whitlam era passed off as fact.loris wrote:And also missing is the Category for the usual rant & railing against the Murdoch Press and conservative governments.terry smith rules wrote:The fact that you have had a continual axe to grind against our skipper and you don’t even deem to name him here gives you a serious credibility issue
Fqf
Interesting that To the twat disappeared and Numpty joined the forum, then Numpty is banned and To the twat returns….hmmmmm.
The boys in the Graphology Department at Quantico would take about two minutes analysing the posts of these two Numptys (is that plural for Numpty?) and proving they are one in the same….BELIEVE ME!
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
- parkeysainter
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Re: 2018
Pretty sure I scared off Numpty or The Real Numpty when I posted the link detailing how one of his ex-ALP PM hero's thought Trump was great at foreign policy and doing a good job in that area. See link: http://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh. ... 4z3mh.htmlJoffa Burns wrote:… and no reference to trickle-down economics, Donald trump or false historical information from the Gough Whitlam era passed off as fact.loris wrote:And also missing is the Category for the usual rant & railing against the Murdoch Press and conservative governments.terry smith rules wrote:The fact that you have had a continual axe to grind against our skipper and you don’t even deem to name him here gives you a serious credibility issue
Fqf
Interesting that To the twat disappeared and Numpty joined the forum, then Numpty is banned and To the twat returns….hmmmmm.
The boys in the Graphology Department at Quantico would take about two minutes analysing the posts of these two Numptys (is that plural for Numpty?) and proving they are one in the same….BELIEVE ME!
It knocked him for six off SS.net for good it seems.
Joffa Burns, you are also a Western sheep and stooge getting paid by the CIA (under the table of course) to spread misinformation and promote right wing agendas on message boards!
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
- desertsaint
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Re: 2018
why would leadership be expected of a young jack sinclair? he's our 16th ranked player and only established himself last year. why weigh him down? ross and newnes i agree with given their age and experience. yet you'd have jack over billings, dunstan, and...geary? as a leader? the poor lad has become our most overrated player because he played wing a lot and quite well - i hope people aren't as wuick to heap scorn on him if he doesn't come on as quickly as we hope.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
- Drake Huggins
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Re: 2018
Translated from ancient Aramaic, methinks. As per usual, it lost a lot in the translation. That, or it was written under the influence of a few Sippers. Probably he latter.
"Is this the right room for an argument?"
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"I told you once."
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Re: 2018
Sinclair should be higher on the list. He will have a better year I hope and get us close to finals. Why lonie got games over him baffled me but based on last year he is one of the first picked
- Selhurst Saint
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Re: 2018
Kicking straight is "vital".
"...If there has been one recurring theme through this whole shocking mess, it has been the misguided, inflated egos and their ill-judged determination to cling to long-standing old boy friendships. The bad advice that has guided the selfish and culpable James Hird has not only punctuated this saga but symbolised it..."
- meher baba
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Re: 2018
It's naive to have any expectations at all in regard to Coffield, Clavarion and Clark. I hope that one or more of them turns out to be an instant superstar a la Joel Selwood, but the odds are of course heavily against this.
I believe the situation with our list is actually pretty straightforward.
1. Players who are clearly of AFL standard, or better: Steven, Ross, Armo (if fit), Carlisle, Roberton, Geary, Gilbert, Billings, Gresham, Brown and Membrey. I would also add Steele and Sinclair, although some might feel they haven't done enough for long enough to have entirely proven themselves. None of these are superstars yet, although I think Steven, Ross, Gresham and Carlisle are not totally out of reach of that status. All of them, other than perhaps Gilbert, are capable of going on well past the end of 2018. (I had always assumed from all the commentary I have read about Brown's short-term value on BF and SS that Brown must be well into his 30s, but he isn't: he's only 29 and could reasonably be expected to play for 3-4 years more.)
2. Players who have shown that they are capable of playing at AFL standard for a series of games or even a season or two, but who I (and I'm sure many other supporters) can't feel entirely comfortable about: perhaps they will continue in the AFL level for many years or perhaps they will drop off the radar. This group includes Longer, Hickey, Dunstan, Savage, Weller, Webster, Stevens, Bruce, White and Newnes. Perhaps my inclusion of Newnes in this list will upset some, but I was really disappointed in him in 2017: he often looked like a point of weakness when we were either defending or trying to get out of defence. I think he's got quite a way to go.
3. Players who haven't shown enough yet for me to feel sure about, but who all seem to have the possibility of becoming anything from superstars to nothing much at all. McCartin is obviously the top of this list, but it also includes Acres, Freeman and (from what I've seen of him) Battle. Clark also showed glimpses of potentially being something special in the pre-season.
4. Players who I really can't feel sure about what their future might be. Some of these - Austin, Coffield, Clavarino - I just haven't seen (apart from Coffield briefly, who looked ok). Others - White, Marshall, Lonie , McKenzie- have looked ok in glimpses and perhaps might still make it, but have deficiencies: Marshall seems really slow, Lonie doesn't do enough in a game to justify selection, and White and McKenzie look only to be reasonable players in positions for which we seem to have better options.
5. Players who really don't look like they are going to make it: Minchington, Wright, Pierce and, I'm afraid to say, the much-lauded Bailey Rice.
Looked at as a whole, and without rose-coloured glasses on, the list isn't really good enough to make the 8. However, we could do better than I fear if
- we don't have a bad run with injuries (particularly in our midfield, which lacks depth: Armo could be crucial here),
- our teamwork stays good
- the likes of Steven, Ross, Billings and Gresham have stellar seasons,
- players like Dunstan, Acres, Savage, Webster, Newnes and Bruce can turn up consistently with their best game, and
- either McCartin stays injury-free and delivers, or Battle or Marshall can come on quicker than I expect
I don't all the stars to line up for us in this way, but it's happened to some clubs in some seasons.
Even if everything goes right, unfortunately I can't see us being good enough for a flag in 2018. We are not the Bulldogs in 2016 or Richmond in 2017: both those teams had some superstars. We don't have any.
I believe the situation with our list is actually pretty straightforward.
1. Players who are clearly of AFL standard, or better: Steven, Ross, Armo (if fit), Carlisle, Roberton, Geary, Gilbert, Billings, Gresham, Brown and Membrey. I would also add Steele and Sinclair, although some might feel they haven't done enough for long enough to have entirely proven themselves. None of these are superstars yet, although I think Steven, Ross, Gresham and Carlisle are not totally out of reach of that status. All of them, other than perhaps Gilbert, are capable of going on well past the end of 2018. (I had always assumed from all the commentary I have read about Brown's short-term value on BF and SS that Brown must be well into his 30s, but he isn't: he's only 29 and could reasonably be expected to play for 3-4 years more.)
2. Players who have shown that they are capable of playing at AFL standard for a series of games or even a season or two, but who I (and I'm sure many other supporters) can't feel entirely comfortable about: perhaps they will continue in the AFL level for many years or perhaps they will drop off the radar. This group includes Longer, Hickey, Dunstan, Savage, Weller, Webster, Stevens, Bruce, White and Newnes. Perhaps my inclusion of Newnes in this list will upset some, but I was really disappointed in him in 2017: he often looked like a point of weakness when we were either defending or trying to get out of defence. I think he's got quite a way to go.
3. Players who haven't shown enough yet for me to feel sure about, but who all seem to have the possibility of becoming anything from superstars to nothing much at all. McCartin is obviously the top of this list, but it also includes Acres, Freeman and (from what I've seen of him) Battle. Clark also showed glimpses of potentially being something special in the pre-season.
4. Players who I really can't feel sure about what their future might be. Some of these - Austin, Coffield, Clavarino - I just haven't seen (apart from Coffield briefly, who looked ok). Others - White, Marshall, Lonie , McKenzie- have looked ok in glimpses and perhaps might still make it, but have deficiencies: Marshall seems really slow, Lonie doesn't do enough in a game to justify selection, and White and McKenzie look only to be reasonable players in positions for which we seem to have better options.
5. Players who really don't look like they are going to make it: Minchington, Wright, Pierce and, I'm afraid to say, the much-lauded Bailey Rice.
Looked at as a whole, and without rose-coloured glasses on, the list isn't really good enough to make the 8. However, we could do better than I fear if
- we don't have a bad run with injuries (particularly in our midfield, which lacks depth: Armo could be crucial here),
- our teamwork stays good
- the likes of Steven, Ross, Billings and Gresham have stellar seasons,
- players like Dunstan, Acres, Savage, Webster, Newnes and Bruce can turn up consistently with their best game, and
- either McCartin stays injury-free and delivers, or Battle or Marshall can come on quicker than I expect
I don't all the stars to line up for us in this way, but it's happened to some clubs in some seasons.
Even if everything goes right, unfortunately I can't see us being good enough for a flag in 2018. We are not the Bulldogs in 2016 or Richmond in 2017: both those teams had some superstars. We don't have any.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
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- Jonathan Swift
- SaintPav
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Re: 2018
But we have Farteysainter.meher baba wrote:
both those teams had some superstars. We don't have any.
He's a legend.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- parkeysainter
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Re: 2018
The mods already gave you one warning for this. Play nice please.SaintPav wrote:But we have Farteysainter.meher baba wrote:
both those teams had some superstars. We don't have any.
He's a legend.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
- dragit
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Re: 2018
I'm just glad clavarion seems to be sticking… sounds like a planet where clavinets rule supreme.
This should be our warm-up music when Oscar debuts…
https://youtu.be/ihDYK12WMG4
This should be our warm-up music when Oscar debuts…
https://youtu.be/ihDYK12WMG4
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Re: 2018
Always thought that Fart, was Fart, not Fartey? Should it be Farty?parkeysainter wrote:The mods already gave you one warning for this. Play nice please.SaintPav wrote:But we have Farteysainter.meher baba wrote:
both those teams had some superstars. We don't have any.
He's a legend.
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Re: 2018
So as I said, it is a year of look at individual performances, cross fingers and hope.
That we need support for Steven is a given - and Freeman remains on the List so we will see what the second half of the season brings.
Those we focus on are the high end Draft Picks from recent seasons. But they need support from what little experience we have left and from Carlisle.
Any that we have so far recruited from other Clubs were not of the ilk of Carlisle and there is a problem there. We have not been selective enough in terms of List requirements
We bemoan disposal efficiency - but look at who our lead possession winners were yesterday and you have your answer.
Those who the opposition is happy to see the ball in the hands of.
Plus the lack of accountability that saw opposition players lining up inside our defensive 50 without an opponent in sight - because they had been deployed to either filling a hole and waving their hands around or attracted to the contest hence had lost contact with the player they should have been defending - if they ever had any contact.
Then, with such poor disposal from the contest they have been attracted to, the ball immediately rebounds.
So a double whammy against us.
I repeat again, whilst Geary is Captain of St Kilda we have a problem.
There are GOP's we have to move past - and they were very easily identified yesterday, all of them.
Further, we can not play with only 17 footballers on the ground and week after week after week gift BOG to an opposition Ruckman who dominates the game, with emphasis on "game"
Two weeks in and another 2 added to the list
That is the record with the player the Club professes to have confidence in
We are nowhere near that good and it is abjectly unfair to the higher end talent we have Drafted over the past few seasons ass they attempt to establish and influence results
That we need support for Steven is a given - and Freeman remains on the List so we will see what the second half of the season brings.
Those we focus on are the high end Draft Picks from recent seasons. But they need support from what little experience we have left and from Carlisle.
Any that we have so far recruited from other Clubs were not of the ilk of Carlisle and there is a problem there. We have not been selective enough in terms of List requirements
We bemoan disposal efficiency - but look at who our lead possession winners were yesterday and you have your answer.
Those who the opposition is happy to see the ball in the hands of.
Plus the lack of accountability that saw opposition players lining up inside our defensive 50 without an opponent in sight - because they had been deployed to either filling a hole and waving their hands around or attracted to the contest hence had lost contact with the player they should have been defending - if they ever had any contact.
Then, with such poor disposal from the contest they have been attracted to, the ball immediately rebounds.
So a double whammy against us.
I repeat again, whilst Geary is Captain of St Kilda we have a problem.
There are GOP's we have to move past - and they were very easily identified yesterday, all of them.
Further, we can not play with only 17 footballers on the ground and week after week after week gift BOG to an opposition Ruckman who dominates the game, with emphasis on "game"
Two weeks in and another 2 added to the list
That is the record with the player the Club professes to have confidence in
We are nowhere near that good and it is abjectly unfair to the higher end talent we have Drafted over the past few seasons ass they attempt to establish and influence results