2018 & beyond, what do we need?
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2018 & beyond, what do we need?
It's certainly been a disappointing year for us with some frustrating inconsistency and TERRIBLE conversion in front of goal.
If our conversion was better, we probably would be pushing top 4 (We've only kicked more goals than behinds on 6 occasions this year)
The backline was our biggest weakness a few years ago, now it's one of our biggest strengths.
- Carlisle has been an exceptional pick up (minus the Sydney game)
- Brown has been serviceable (very one dimensional)
- We have a fleet of small/medium defenders who like to attack and generally use it pretty well.
Bruce & Skunk not only work well together, but are both multi-dimensional.
- They can take big marks
- Both can push up high on the wings to be an option & then push back into the 50 through gut running
- Both are good one on one.
Billings will be elite, but get the kid a sports shrink.
Gresham is an exciting prospect, still a little inconsistent.
Depending on our development of him, Battle will be a very effective third forward along with Bruce & Skunk
- Strong mark
- Good mover
- Good kick
Our Midfield has come a long way, but we desperately need some class & outside dash.
Ross, Stevens, Dunstan, Steele & Armo are all very similar players.
Acres is still prone to doing some exceptionally dumb things.
Overall
- GET A FU**ING GOAL KICKING COACH!!!
- Find out if any of our small/medium defenders can develop into a midfielder, we have a surplus of them. If not, Sandy will at least have a very attacking back half.
- Stop drafting small/medium attacking defenders (We already had a surplus but we still added Rice and White)
- Find Brown's replacement or start grooming someone. Goddard the logical answer but through both injury & form he just hasn't come on as we would've liked.
- Change the game plan. We have guys on the half back line who like to attack & who have long, beautiful kicks AND We have two blokes up front who are quick & generally good on the lead. Why can't we just try and go more direct & try and open up the game. Instead of going slowly around the boundary & hoping Skunk/Bruce can out mark 10 guys.
Would love to get SS's opinions on the following guys
- Mav
- DMak
- 8cres
- Lonie
- Longer
- Hickey
If our conversion was better, we probably would be pushing top 4 (We've only kicked more goals than behinds on 6 occasions this year)
The backline was our biggest weakness a few years ago, now it's one of our biggest strengths.
- Carlisle has been an exceptional pick up (minus the Sydney game)
- Brown has been serviceable (very one dimensional)
- We have a fleet of small/medium defenders who like to attack and generally use it pretty well.
Bruce & Skunk not only work well together, but are both multi-dimensional.
- They can take big marks
- Both can push up high on the wings to be an option & then push back into the 50 through gut running
- Both are good one on one.
Billings will be elite, but get the kid a sports shrink.
Gresham is an exciting prospect, still a little inconsistent.
Depending on our development of him, Battle will be a very effective third forward along with Bruce & Skunk
- Strong mark
- Good mover
- Good kick
Our Midfield has come a long way, but we desperately need some class & outside dash.
Ross, Stevens, Dunstan, Steele & Armo are all very similar players.
Acres is still prone to doing some exceptionally dumb things.
Overall
- GET A FU**ING GOAL KICKING COACH!!!
- Find out if any of our small/medium defenders can develop into a midfielder, we have a surplus of them. If not, Sandy will at least have a very attacking back half.
- Stop drafting small/medium attacking defenders (We already had a surplus but we still added Rice and White)
- Find Brown's replacement or start grooming someone. Goddard the logical answer but through both injury & form he just hasn't come on as we would've liked.
- Change the game plan. We have guys on the half back line who like to attack & who have long, beautiful kicks AND We have two blokes up front who are quick & generally good on the lead. Why can't we just try and go more direct & try and open up the game. Instead of going slowly around the boundary & hoping Skunk/Bruce can out mark 10 guys.
Would love to get SS's opinions on the following guys
- Mav
- DMak
- 8cres
- Lonie
- Longer
- Hickey
- desertsaint
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Not going to write Mav off, but it's been a poor year. He's in there to bring some hardness, apply forward pressure, stick tackles, and score the odd goal. Well off it at the moment.
DMak - depth player. Certainly rather retain him than Minch or Wright. Could go on to become a gop.
Acres - the third quarter showed what he is capable of, but must get more involved more consistently. Just needs more experience and attack harder and lose the brain fades.
Lonie - depth player, a great trier with more heart than most. If he strengthens with age he could become very handy, but on this season it looks unlikely.
Longer - way better than Hickey this year, still well short of what we need.
Hickey - just fallen off a cliff. Good around the ground, but if a ruckman can't ruck, there's no place for him.
Of our midfield I see a good career for Ross and Dunstan and Steele, Stevens handy as depth. Armo the same, though at his peak can force his way back in. Unlikely.
Gresham - second year blues, has a lot of goodwill on here due to last year and his experience, but a poor year. Very good future.
Sinclair - will get better, good skills and overrated on here as a result, but applied himself physically this week - was pleased with his game - probably his best. More of it please.
DMak - depth player. Certainly rather retain him than Minch or Wright. Could go on to become a gop.
Acres - the third quarter showed what he is capable of, but must get more involved more consistently. Just needs more experience and attack harder and lose the brain fades.
Lonie - depth player, a great trier with more heart than most. If he strengthens with age he could become very handy, but on this season it looks unlikely.
Longer - way better than Hickey this year, still well short of what we need.
Hickey - just fallen off a cliff. Good around the ground, but if a ruckman can't ruck, there's no place for him.
Of our midfield I see a good career for Ross and Dunstan and Steele, Stevens handy as depth. Armo the same, though at his peak can force his way back in. Unlikely.
Gresham - second year blues, has a lot of goodwill on here due to last year and his experience, but a poor year. Very good future.
Sinclair - will get better, good skills and overrated on here as a result, but applied himself physically this week - was pleased with his game - probably his best. More of it please.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
- Life Long Saint
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
We need A-grade midfielders and lots of them.
Our key position players are sorted. Solid defence and lots of key talls.
We definitely need Kelly or Martin, or someone like that because we don't have anyone in the team capable of that role.
Our key position players are sorted. Solid defence and lots of key talls.
We definitely need Kelly or Martin, or someone like that because we don't have anyone in the team capable of that role.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Life Long Saint wrote:We need A-grade midfielders and lots of them.
Our key position players are sorted. Solid defence and lots of key talls.
We definitely need Kelly or Martin, or someone like that because we don't have anyone in the team capable of that role.
We really need a full back as well.
2 key postition backmen is one too few.
Don't recruit any flankers ffs.
And we need to recruit some top notch assistants not long out of the game.
So, see you later, Danny and Sammy.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
We've got more flankers than sense.saynta wrote:Life Long Saint wrote:We need A-grade midfielders and lots of them.
Our key position players are sorted. Solid defence and lots of key talls.
We definitely need Kelly or Martin, or someone like that because we don't have anyone in the team capable of that role.
We really need a full back as well.
2 key postition backmen is one too few.
Don't recruit any flankers ffs.
And we need to recruit some top notch assistants not long out of the game.
So, see you later, Danny and Sammy.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
To get A-Graders, you have to either develop them, or give up the farm.Life Long Saint wrote:We need A-grade midfielders and lots of them.
Our key position players are sorted. Solid defence and lots of key talls.
We definitely need Kelly or Martin, or someone like that because we don't have anyone in the team capable of that role.
So far, our club has been horrible at developing our players.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
1)A ruckman
2) 2 quick midfielders with great disposal
3) Joe Daniher
4) Key back to support Carlisle
A spot in the trophy cabinet!
2) 2 quick midfielders with great disposal
3) Joe Daniher
4) Key back to support Carlisle
A spot in the trophy cabinet!
- borderbarry
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Not really impressed with Brown. Would like a full back to get a possession a quarter. We need to recruit a defender in the draft if we cant get Lever, such as Naughton, or Clavarino. Let them start off in the back pocket beside Brown while they are learning their game.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
borderbarry wrote:Not really impressed with Brown. Would like a full back to get a possession a quarter. We need to recruit a defender in the draft if we cant get Lever, such as Naughton, or Clavarino. Let them start off in the back pocket beside Brown while they are learning their game.
I am 100% in agreement.
- parkeysainter
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
DEFENCE
1) 1x more key back (either best available to us in draft or through a trade) as cover for Brown and Carlisle. Goddard will hopefully come on next year and be Brown's replacement eventually though. Marshall may fit that bill.
No need for more bp's and hb's. We are overloaded with them.
MIDFIELD
2) 1 x gun midfielder with skill and pace (please be J. Kelly) to add to the good group of grunt players we have built up and J. Steven's pace.
1 x good midfielder with skill and pace (Zak Jones from Sydney would be a good pick up).
Freeman might come on though too.
ATTACK
1 x gun goal kicking small/medium forward (someone like Devon Smith would be great). We have good talls but besides Billings we have nothing else of worth in the smalls department. Minchington and Lonie don't add to Billings and neither will kick 30-40 goals per year in their career.
RUCKS
Keep Billy and get rid of at least two of the following in Holmes, Hickey or Pearce. Trade in a another ruckman with some expierence or a mature recruit from the VFL, SANFL or WAFL.
1) 1x more key back (either best available to us in draft or through a trade) as cover for Brown and Carlisle. Goddard will hopefully come on next year and be Brown's replacement eventually though. Marshall may fit that bill.
No need for more bp's and hb's. We are overloaded with them.
MIDFIELD
2) 1 x gun midfielder with skill and pace (please be J. Kelly) to add to the good group of grunt players we have built up and J. Steven's pace.
1 x good midfielder with skill and pace (Zak Jones from Sydney would be a good pick up).
Freeman might come on though too.
ATTACK
1 x gun goal kicking small/medium forward (someone like Devon Smith would be great). We have good talls but besides Billings we have nothing else of worth in the smalls department. Minchington and Lonie don't add to Billings and neither will kick 30-40 goals per year in their career.
RUCKS
Keep Billy and get rid of at least two of the following in Holmes, Hickey or Pearce. Trade in a another ruckman with some expierence or a mature recruit from the VFL, SANFL or WAFL.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
- Impatient Sainter
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Sack Sexton, Hamill and Turtle. Bring in some new blood and ideas for our midfield play and transition football going forward. Also employ a specific goal kicking coach.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
What about Gresham?parkeysainter wrote:
ATTACK
1 x gun goal kicking small/medium forward (someone like Devon Smith would be great). We have good talls but besides Billings we have nothing else of worth in the smalls department. Minchington and Lonie don't add to Billings and neither will kick 30-40 goals per year in their career.
- parkeysainter
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Yep. Sorry, forgot about him. Just realised.
We do need another high half forward that kicks goals though like Devon Smith or Tom Lynch.
We do need another high half forward that kicks goals though like Devon Smith or Tom Lynch.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
- perfectionist
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
There is no point thinking that you can ever recruit someone for a particular position, unless they are a player from another club with experience, not least of all because no-one can say how the game will evolve over time. But one thing is certain - however the game is played, skill will most times win out. Anyone who watched the Bulldogs game today will note that it was Marcus Bontempelli and Robert Murphy who made the difference. Both can kick equally well either side and both can take a mark.
So, when picking players in the draft, I would stipulate two rules:
1. The player must be at least 190cm tall ( like the two named above)
2. He must be able to kick both sides.
As the pick numbers increase, rule 1 can be dispensed with before rule 2.
Over a number of years (up to 10), a team of skilled players will emerge. We did this from 2000, and had a decent team for ten years because of it. Then we lost our way - first trying for short term top ups - sometimes this works e.g. Hawthorn in 2013-15, but most often it doesn't. In recent years, we have simply chosen badly.
So, when picking players in the draft, I would stipulate two rules:
1. The player must be at least 190cm tall ( like the two named above)
2. He must be able to kick both sides.
As the pick numbers increase, rule 1 can be dispensed with before rule 2.
Over a number of years (up to 10), a team of skilled players will emerge. We did this from 2000, and had a decent team for ten years because of it. Then we lost our way - first trying for short term top ups - sometimes this works e.g. Hawthorn in 2013-15, but most often it doesn't. In recent years, we have simply chosen badly.
- magnifisaint
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
We need an outside runner like Scully. He's only taken 6 yrs to become elite so there's time for Billings. Another fullback to take over from Brown who has done well. Not sure if Goddard is good enough. Seems too slow.
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Young players we have to come in. Good pre seasons and we have massive injection of talent
Goddard and McCartin - big talented boys. These we the best KPs in their draft dont give up on em. Mccartins highlights still outdo all the others
Freemans year very positive he got to 37possies started to dominate clearances - look out.
White, McKenzie, Rice all about to take the next step obviously.
Have faith. Add Kelly and we have a great team going forward. Looking forward to 2018+
Acres. This kid hopefully it clicks. He seems to go half pace if he picks it up gwts some
Urgency he could still be anything.
What we know now especially after satirday being the youngest team without gilbert minty and rooey we will be fine. We dominated port KILLED them. Sure we missed opps. But that will change. Gresh Lonie and billings are elite kickers. Missing goals is a bit of psychology/experience. It could all turn quickly.
I really hope we retire roo and monty. Theyve done their job, time to Move on.
Goddard and McCartin - big talented boys. These we the best KPs in their draft dont give up on em. Mccartins highlights still outdo all the others
Freemans year very positive he got to 37possies started to dominate clearances - look out.
White, McKenzie, Rice all about to take the next step obviously.
Have faith. Add Kelly and we have a great team going forward. Looking forward to 2018+
Acres. This kid hopefully it clicks. He seems to go half pace if he picks it up gwts some
Urgency he could still be anything.
What we know now especially after satirday being the youngest team without gilbert minty and rooey we will be fine. We dominated port KILLED them. Sure we missed opps. But that will change. Gresh Lonie and billings are elite kickers. Missing goals is a bit of psychology/experience. It could all turn quickly.
I really hope we retire roo and monty. Theyve done their job, time to Move on.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
2018 this may well be the top 22. Fit and firing thats a skilled team on every line.
Geary Goddard. Roberton
Webster Carlisle White
Newnes. Dunstan. Acres
Bilings. Bruce. Long
Gresham. McCartin. Membrey
Longer. Steven Kelly
Interchange: Ross. Steele. Sinclair. Freeman.
Emergency. Marshall, McKenzie, Brown, Rice, Minchington, Lonie
Geary Goddard. Roberton
Webster Carlisle White
Newnes. Dunstan. Acres
Bilings. Bruce. Long
Gresham. McCartin. Membrey
Longer. Steven Kelly
Interchange: Ross. Steele. Sinclair. Freeman.
Emergency. Marshall, McKenzie, Brown, Rice, Minchington, Lonie
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
What about Marchbank, Moore, Wright, Durdin and Lever?SMS wrote:Young players we have to come in. Good pre seasons and we have massive injection of talent
Goddard and McCartin - big talented boys. These we the best KPs in their draft dont give up on em.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Need a leader in the middle. Dunstan is the guy but needs to focus on his own game at the moment. Jack Steven is clearly of the pace at the moment for whatever reason, but he isn't the guy to demand excellence and control the midfield group. Of the guys available, Rockliff is the man. Not as good a player as Dusty or Jelly, but will take control of the group in the centre so breakdowns around clearance like yesterday don't occur.
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
??? Are you serious? McCartin is way better than all of the forwards easily. Goddard obviously more of the question marks.Con Gorozidis wrote:What about Marchbank, Moore, Wright, Durdin and Lever?SMS wrote:Young players we have to come in. Good pre seasons and we have massive injection of talent
Goddard and McCartin - big talented boys. These we the best KPs in their draft dont give up on em.
But for talent mccartin has all those covered. WHEN mccartin gets back and plays consistent footy youll see a monster who can do it all.
- Devilhead
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
We need supporters to get behind the club and not bitch and moan
The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
I really think to move forward, Roo and Joey need to move on.
Be even more aggressive in this draft,
Spend $$$$$$$$$
Top priority - J.Kelly
Next - Fast/Line breaking mid
Another tall back.
Coaching staff,
Get Lenny back for midfield coach, build a midfield structure around Kelly
Roo could probably do a better job than Sammy has.
We desperately need Paddy to stay on the park, to have him there makes Bruce and Members even more potent.
Acres has a big future needs to back himself and play on instinct.
Lonie can't be in our best 22 if we have a team that is a serious finals team.
Be even more aggressive in this draft,
Spend $$$$$$$$$
Top priority - J.Kelly
Next - Fast/Line breaking mid
Another tall back.
Coaching staff,
Get Lenny back for midfield coach, build a midfield structure around Kelly
Roo could probably do a better job than Sammy has.
We desperately need Paddy to stay on the park, to have him there makes Bruce and Members even more potent.
Acres has a big future needs to back himself and play on instinct.
Lonie can't be in our best 22 if we have a team that is a serious finals team.
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
You said McCartin and Goddard 'were the best KPs in their draft'.SMS wrote:??? Are you serious? McCartin is way better than all of the forwards easily. Goddard obviously more of the question marks.Con Gorozidis wrote:What about Marchbank, Moore, Wright, Durdin and Lever?SMS wrote:Young players we have to come in. Good pre seasons and we have massive injection of talent
Goddard and McCartin - big talented boys. These we the best KPs in their draft dont give up on em.
But for talent mccartin has all those covered. WHEN mccartin gets back and plays consistent footy youll see a monster who can do it all.
This is simply factually wrong.
All the players I listed were selected before Goddard in the draft.
Also, McCartin is not 'way better' than anyone at this stage.
Moore has 55 career goals, Wright 52 and McCartin only 22.
Moore and Wright can also both play ruck.
So how does that make Paddy 'way better' exactly???? At this point Paddy may not ever make either 50 career games or goals.
So are you serious?
The amount of delusional, fanciful nonsense that gets spoken on here is astounding.
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Sun 30 Jul 2017 9:55pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Bernard Shakey
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Re: 2018 & beyond, what do we need?
Kelly
Rockliff
Lever
End of story!
Rockliff
Lever
End of story!
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