That's more than likely mate, judging from the levels of support for him on this forum.Sainternist wrote:Richo will find himself very quickly under the pump if the team isn't going leaps and bounds right from the start of next year.bigred wrote:Worst case scenario we would be at least another season off a coach change. And that would only come off the back of another underachieving season.
Mr. Richardson
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Re: Mr. Richardson
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Re: Mr. Richardson
You obviously didn't read my posts.samoht wrote:Richmond didn't bring the pressure that day.
How did we go against Essendon, the following week?
Does this mean Richo had a great "flag winning" plan one week, then decided to ditch it the next???
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Ok so the coach is not blame.
We don't have the cattle.
Many of us have been saying this all year.
But the coach should have managed expectations and said it was another development year.
He seems deluded to think we were contenders and seems to seriously over rate the players and the game plan he is following.
He seems clueless when we get belted and just says the same things. Oh we didn't try hard enough. Or the old favourite. The opposition were really good.
Yeah no s***! This is the AFL. The opposition are good. And they all try hard too.
His game plan seems to be to hope the other side don't try.
When that happens we can win.
We don't have the cattle.
Many of us have been saying this all year.
But the coach should have managed expectations and said it was another development year.
He seems deluded to think we were contenders and seems to seriously over rate the players and the game plan he is following.
He seems clueless when we get belted and just says the same things. Oh we didn't try hard enough. Or the old favourite. The opposition were really good.
Yeah no s***! This is the AFL. The opposition are good. And they all try hard too.
His game plan seems to be to hope the other side don't try.
When that happens we can win.
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Re: Mr. Richardson
So it's another "development year" ? Richo isn't the most charismatic speaker, he's not the only one among the coaching fraternity to be lacking in that area of expertise. I well understand people's frustration and disappointment, ( including myself!) at how things have panned out these past two weeks, two bloody awful performances against sides who simply SMASHED us. My main concern about the calls for a change of coach, are:
(A) WHO (with the required skills AND availability) is out there?
(B) How long do we give the replacement coach to get us into contention for a flag?
I'm not saying that all is rosy and bright, but there ARE plenty of reasons to feel positive about our future direction. It will just take TIME, and patience. And before the usual suspects start giving me grief for holding this view, this is my opinion based on my observations over the past three seasons, yours may well be different, fine with me, let's agree to disagree.
(A) WHO (with the required skills AND availability) is out there?
(B) How long do we give the replacement coach to get us into contention for a flag?
I'm not saying that all is rosy and bright, but there ARE plenty of reasons to feel positive about our future direction. It will just take TIME, and patience. And before the usual suspects start giving me grief for holding this view, this is my opinion based on my observations over the past three seasons, yours may well be different, fine with me, let's agree to disagree.
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Re: Mr. Richardson
the Jiggster (directly above) makes some good points.
We don't know who is out there who could do a better job.
The ones like Roos, had totally different cultures and players to work with,
so we have no idea how well they'd fare with our eclectic mix of cattle.
My main concern is how many players have gone backwards under Richo.
Pierce/Wright/Dunstan/Steven (up and down this year)/Baroose/Newnes/Savage/Lonie/Mav
just to name a few.
Richo being the head coach has to wear the blame because he oversees the other coaches and should identify and rectify things.
I only see a few guys who have come on, being Ross, Gilbo, Gears, Gresh...
I firmly believe he is NOT the Messiah and is not the one to develop the team, let alone take them into the 8.
And don't talk about getting a tough draw...please.
You play who you are given and deal with it.
Like WCE and Dockers have to travel every fortnight, they have to just get over it and work it out.
Demons were below us last year, we ran them ragged, Skunk got 5
This year, where are the Demons?
We should be right up there with them.
They beat Crows in Adelaide after being so far down..."Hogan had been diagnosed with cancer!" so what
Irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors.
Look at Tigers, last year Hardwick was dead man walking. Sure, they've been losing games in weird ways, but they've played better than last year in their wins. Much better.
Coach needs to go and also all of the other coaches too. All of them.
We don't know who is out there who could do a better job.
The ones like Roos, had totally different cultures and players to work with,
so we have no idea how well they'd fare with our eclectic mix of cattle.
My main concern is how many players have gone backwards under Richo.
Pierce/Wright/Dunstan/Steven (up and down this year)/Baroose/Newnes/Savage/Lonie/Mav
just to name a few.
Richo being the head coach has to wear the blame because he oversees the other coaches and should identify and rectify things.
I only see a few guys who have come on, being Ross, Gilbo, Gears, Gresh...
I firmly believe he is NOT the Messiah and is not the one to develop the team, let alone take them into the 8.
And don't talk about getting a tough draw...please.
You play who you are given and deal with it.
Like WCE and Dockers have to travel every fortnight, they have to just get over it and work it out.
Demons were below us last year, we ran them ragged, Skunk got 5
This year, where are the Demons?
We should be right up there with them.
They beat Crows in Adelaide after being so far down..."Hogan had been diagnosed with cancer!" so what
Irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors.
Look at Tigers, last year Hardwick was dead man walking. Sure, they've been losing games in weird ways, but they've played better than last year in their wins. Much better.
Coach needs to go and also all of the other coaches too. All of them.
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and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Re: Mr. Richardson
WellardSaint wrote:the Jiggster (directly above) makes some good points.
We don't know who is out there who could do a better job.
The ones like Roos, had totally different cultures and players to work with,
so we have no idea how well they'd fare with our eclectic mix of cattle.
My main concern is how many players have gone backwards under Richo.
Pierce/Wright/Dunstan/Steven (up and down this year)/Baroose/Newnes/Savage/Lonie/Mav
just to name a few.
Richo being the head coach has to wear the blame because he oversees the other coaches and should identify and rectify things.
I only see a few guys who have come on, being Ross, Gilbo, Gears, Gresh...
I firmly believe he is NOT the Messiah and is not the one to develop the team, let alone take them into the 8.
And don't talk about getting a tough draw...please.
You play who you are given and deal with it.
Like WCE and Dockers have to travel every fortnight, they have to just get over it and work it out.
Demons were below us last year, we ran them ragged, Skunk got 5
This year, where are the Demons?
We should be right up there with them.
They beat Crows in Adelaide after being so far down..."Hogan had been diagnosed with cancer!" so what
Irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors.
Look at Tigers, last year Hardwick was dead man walking. Sure, they've been losing games in weird ways, but they've played better than last year in their wins. Much better.
Coach needs to go and also all of the other coaches too. All of them.
Ok mate. ALL the coaches get the arse. What next? Who do YOU feel would be the coach to take us further? It's one thing to call for the coach and his staff to get the arse, but without putting up a viable alternative, it just seems like an overreaction to two ( admittedly putrid) performances.
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Re: Mr. Richardson
I did, but I was also responding to this ---Johnny Member wrote:You obviously didn't read my posts.samoht wrote:Richmond didn't bring the pressure that day.
How did we go against Essendon, the following week?
Does this mean Richo had a great "flag winning" plan one week, then decided to ditch it the next???
"A coach has two jobs -
1) Develop a plan that is capable of winning the flag.
2) And to get the players to carry it out each week.
Richardson in my opinion, is failing badly in number 1). Not sure about 2)".
I just responded to this by saying what was wrong with Richo's plan vs Richmond - and did he decide to alter it against Essendon - that it can't be Richo's plan in other words that's the problem here, but that our midfield is not good enough to carry out instructions and game plans vs the better teams.
On the other point you brought up ---
OK, when we played well - you said we weren't putting our dominance on the scoreboard. ... but at one stage we were 90 points up and they had only kicked 2 goals? I wasn't sure how to answer that.
If you score a goal for every 5 or so entries - you aren't doing too bad - and really did we have any right to dominate Richmond to the extent we did?
Last edited by samoht on Tue 25 Jul 2017 2:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
- WellardSaint
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Re: Mr. Richardson
We get a panel of experts to interview some folks who would be interested.thejiggingsaint wrote:WellardSaint wrote:the Jiggster (directly above) makes some good points.
We don't know who is out there who could do a better job.
The ones like Roos, had totally different cultures and players to work with,
.....edited for brevity....
Look at Tigers, last year Hardwick was dead man walking. Sure, they've been losing games in weird ways, but they've played better than last year in their wins. Much better.
Coach needs to go and also all of the other coaches too. All of them.
Ok mate. ALL the coaches get the arse. What next? Who do YOU feel would be the coach to take us further? It's one thing to call for the coach and his staff to get the arse, but without putting up a viable alternative, it just seems like an overreaction to two ( admittedly putrid) performances.
Panel needs to be a mix of footy experts who are not long out of the game, or even still coaching as assistants,
and importantly, recruitment experts who can spot a Watters-type character who interviews well but is hopeless in real world.
Recruitment experts who can identify someone who is a natural leader and can take advice from others without getting offended.
There's folks out there who know how to do this.
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤![🤍](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f90d.svg)
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Fair enough. We employed a similar option in selecting Ross Lyon. Incidentally, John Longmire was one of the candidates in that selection process who didn't make the panel's shortlist....... since taking over from Roos he's taken the Swans to THREE Grand Finals for one flag! Hmmmmm? The panel of (ahem) "experts" didn't see THAT coming!WellardSaint wrote:We get a panel of experts to interview some folks who would be interested.thejiggingsaint wrote:WellardSaint wrote:the Jiggster (directly above) makes some good points.
We don't know who is out there who could do a better job.
The ones like Roos, had totally different cultures and players to work with,
.....edited for brevity....
Look at Tigers, last year Hardwick was dead man walking. Sure, they've been losing games in weird ways, but they've played better than last year in their wins. Much better.
Coach needs to go and also all of the other coaches too. All of them.
Ok mate. ALL the coaches get the arse. What next? Who do YOU feel would be the coach to take us further? It's one thing to call for the coach and his staff to get the arse, but without putting up a viable alternative, it just seems like an overreaction to two ( admittedly putrid) performances.
Panel needs to be a mix of footy experts who are not long out of the game, or even still coaching as assistants,
and importantly, recruitment experts who can spot a Watters-type character who interviews well but is hopeless in real world.
Recruitment experts who can identify someone who is a natural leader and can take advice from others without getting offended.
There's folks out there who know how to do this.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
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- Johnny Member
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Did you miss this bit?samoht wrote:I did, but I was also responding to this ---Johnny Member wrote:You obviously didn't read my posts.samoht wrote:Richmond didn't bring the pressure that day.
How did we go against Essendon, the following week?
Does this mean Richo had a great "flag winning" plan one week, then decided to ditch it the next???"A coach has two jobs -
1) Develop a plan that is capable of winning the flag.
2) And to get the players to carry it out each week.
Richardson in my opinion, is failing badly in number 1). Not sure about 2)".
I just responded to this by saying what was wrong with Richo's plan vs Richmond - and did he decide to alter it against Essendon - that it can't be Richo's plan in other words that's the problem here, but that our midfield is not good enough to carry out instructions and game plans vs the better teams.
On the other point you brought up ---
OK, when we played well - you said we weren't putting our dominance on the scoreboard. ... but at one stage we were 90 points up and they had only kicked 2 goals? I wasn't sure how to answer that.
If you score a goal for every 5 or so entries - you aren't doing too bad - and really did we have any right to dominate Richmond to the extent we did?
It puts the part you quoted into context.Johnny Member wrote:The way we play, is awful, Even when we win, it's ugly. Even when we were flogging Richmond, we'd had 25 Inside 50s for only 27 points on the scoreboard at one point. That's very concerning, and obviously unsustainable football.
But Richardson had his chest puffed out like we were vindicated. I was more concerned after the Richmond win than some of our losses. If that is how we're trying to play - then we're in trouble. If that's Richardson's blueprint for success - we're stuffed.
- samoht
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Re: Mr. Richardson
OK, I'm sorry for missing that part.
At one point (at the start, until we found our feet), yes, sure our dominance was not translating on the scoreboard --- but we need to look at the big picture.
At another point we were close to 90 points up and they had a paltry 2 goals on the board - so if that's not translating the dominance onto the scoreboard, I don't know what is.
The blueprint for any coach's success is to have a dominant midfield --- we don't have that and we need to recruit it (Ross is usually our one and only performing midfelder against the best teams that bring the pressure).
Until we assemble this midfield, capable of dominating under intense pressure, I will not pass harsh judgement on Richo. I think he's doing well with what he's got.
Even when a side is underperforming, when there's no chance of a team being vindicated, the coach needs to puff out his chest, accentuate any positives, talk the team up and keep morale high- if the coach sulks, then they're not doing their job right.
Don't worry, Richo would be constantly looking for ways to improve the team, even after we have big wins - he still wouldn't be happy in all areas of our game - what he says to the media after the game is just for public consumption.
At one point (at the start, until we found our feet), yes, sure our dominance was not translating on the scoreboard --- but we need to look at the big picture.
At another point we were close to 90 points up and they had a paltry 2 goals on the board - so if that's not translating the dominance onto the scoreboard, I don't know what is.
The blueprint for any coach's success is to have a dominant midfield --- we don't have that and we need to recruit it (Ross is usually our one and only performing midfelder against the best teams that bring the pressure).
Until we assemble this midfield, capable of dominating under intense pressure, I will not pass harsh judgement on Richo. I think he's doing well with what he's got.
Even when a side is underperforming, when there's no chance of a team being vindicated, the coach needs to puff out his chest, accentuate any positives, talk the team up and keep morale high- if the coach sulks, then they're not doing their job right.
Don't worry, Richo would be constantly looking for ways to improve the team, even after we have big wins - he still wouldn't be happy in all areas of our game - what he says to the media after the game is just for public consumption.
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Wow, sack another contracted coach?
I'm sure that will do us a world of good in securing a quality replacement.
The process was to build talent and pick off a couple of free agenets in 2018/2019.
Richo should see out his contract and his part of the process.
Like many have written on this thread, clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong started their era of success on the back of a coach who was under pressure.
I'm backing Richo for finals in 2018!
I'm sure that will do us a world of good in securing a quality replacement.
The process was to build talent and pick off a couple of free agenets in 2018/2019.
Richo should see out his contract and his part of the process.
Like many have written on this thread, clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong started their era of success on the back of a coach who was under pressure.
I'm backing Richo for finals in 2018!
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Re: Mr. Richardson
If Longmire had come to the Saints, who knows how he would have performed?thejiggingsaint wrote:Fair enough. We employed a similar option in selecting Ross Lyon. Incidentally, John Longmire was one of the candidates in that selection process who didn't make the panel's shortlist....... since taking over from Roos he's taken the Swans to THREE Grand Finals for one flag! Hmmmmm? The panel of (ahem) "experts" didn't see THAT coming!WellardSaint wrote:We get a panel of experts to interview some folks who would be interested.thejiggingsaint wrote:WellardSaint wrote:the Jiggster (directly above) makes some good points.
We don't know who is out there who could do a better job.
The ones like Roos, had totally different cultures and players to work with,
.....edited for brevity....
Look at Tigers, last year Hardwick was dead man walking. Sure, they've been losing games in weird ways, but they've played better than last year in their wins. Much better.
Coach needs to go and also all of the other coaches too. All of them.
Ok mate. ALL the coaches get the arse. What next? Who do YOU feel would be the coach to take us further? It's one thing to call for the coach and his staff to get the arse, but without putting up a viable alternative, it just seems like an overreaction to two ( admittedly putrid) performances.
...edited for brevity...
There's folks out there who know how to do this.![]()
![]()
![]()
Conversely, if Swans had chased Richo, he could have taken them to the Big Dance as well, for a flag!
Who knows?
I think Longmire is in an enviable position, in that the Swines have a nice academy going, and somehow they are able
to develop their talent much better than we can- Rampe comes to mind.
The system they have in place might be different to ours...
I think about Formula One drivers who change teams, or pick one team over another, and as their racing career progresses,
"woulda and coulda" become moot points because at the time, they had come to a fork in the road (ironically)
and chose to go left instead of right, and who knows how they would have gone if they had chosen right.
It's like the concept of Time Travel-
if we could travel back in time and kill Hitler, or make sure JFK didn't go to Dallas,
we've changed the entire timeline - another Fascist leader could have arisen, or...JFK could have been bumped off in another way.
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and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Clarkson won a flag in his 4th season.Joffa Burns wrote:Wow, sack another contracted coach?
I'm sure that will do us a world of good in securing a quality replacement.
The process was to build talent and pick off a couple of free agenets in 2018/2019.
Richo should see out his contract and his part of the process.
Like many have written on this thread, clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong started their era of success on the back of a coach who was under pressure.
I'm backing Richo for finals in 2018!
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Okay! Richo took FIVE seasons! Who's splitting hairs about THAT!Con Gorozidis wrote:Clarkson won a flag in his 4th season.Joffa Burns wrote:Wow, sack another contracted coach?
I'm sure that will do us a world of good in securing a quality replacement.
The process was to build talent and pick off a couple of free agenets in 2018/2019.
Richo should see out his contract and his part of the process.
Like many have written on this thread, clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong started their era of success on the back of a coach who was under pressure.
I'm backing Richo for finals in 2018!
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Love ya jiggster, but you're dreamin'.thejiggingsaint wrote:Okay! Richo took FIVE seasons! Who's splitting hairs about THAT!Con Gorozidis wrote:Clarkson won a flag in his 4th season.Joffa Burns wrote:Wow, sack another contracted coach?
I'm sure that will do us a world of good in securing a quality replacement.
The process was to build talent and pick off a couple of free agenets in 2018/2019.
Richo should see out his contract and his part of the process.
Like many have written on this thread, clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong started their era of success on the back of a coach who was under pressure.
I'm backing Richo for finals in 2018!![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Only 1 Dork pushed for Clarkson - Dunstall (he was footy op's mgr, or some such, at the time).
Dunstall was a Dork man through and through. The Dorks were not far past surviving a merger attempt. But, they were dominated by Dorkmen.
We're an 'industry club'. Generally beholden, usually deferential. Wot, saved by Finnis? He's on the corporate ladder, travelling the same path as Andy the Shifty. The PA path to 'success' (wasn't he in charge when E'dope happened - obviously a solid man on employee rights?).
This game's rotten to its core. If you want an idea of what they 'value', look back no further than the recent 'office affair scandal'.
Brand management, pure and simple. Adults engaged in what adults will do, from time to time. No allegations of victimisation, no coercion. Yes, an imbalance of power, so generally smackable. But, FFS, deal with it in house.
Gill the Dill made it issue of the day - 'we are an ethical institution that brooks no challenge to our purity'. The outcome?
Public humiliation for the blokes and their families involved, and social media 'sl*t shaming' for the women, ergo instant pariahs.
And, Richo's an industry man. Nice bloke, obviously. But, how many jobs at how many clubs? Anything in his CV to stamp him as exceptional, even interesting, with the odd off the wall idea?
Nup, nowhere. Acceptable mediocrity personified.
Lyon changed things, Clarkson most definitely changed things, and keeps doing it.
Adelaide chose Don Pyke. Long career, nuttin' much had happened - in and out of acedmemia, for instance. Brisbane chose a bloke who had been what in coaching ranks?
But, who is the biggest influence on contemporary coaching trends, without doubt? It's Clarkson, right? Is he even entertaining the idea that the Dorks will have to bottom out? How are his no-names coming along? Until earlier this year I'd heard of the Dork's 'Brand', but not the Dork's 'Brand', if you get my drift.
How's their injury numbers been? Shockin'. They've played games they've won where their back 6 average age would be about 12 if Hodge wasn't back there.
So, I have a name.
Ratten.
He had F.A. cattle when he coached Carlton, yet took 'em to finals. Yet, they sacked him for Malted Milkhouse. And, who gave him a job? Clarkson.
We have to cast an eye. And, no, I'm not a believer in instant saviors.
But, I am a believer in respecting the respected, and how they decide to employ.
To put it simply, the last 2 weeks have busted my trust. We are not developing the talent we have, we play stodgy football (bar 1 or 2 games p.a., like Richmond), we have only 1 game style, no fallback, the players lack resilience as a group, and it's god damn shattering to witness.
To give you an example of what I see as significant strategic weakness, back in round 1, when we were almost humiliated by Melbourne, I told a couple of club (media) 'legends' we already had a significant weakness - we'd gone from having no big key defenders, but a group, covering defence, who would get about to turn the ball over, and send it back at pace, to a side that looked like it was happy to stand back and wait for 2 big, new key defenders to win air balls and distribute the pill to blokes hanging about the edges. If we were going to slow down in the key spots, we needed to quicken up around them. But, no siree, not us. Yes, Robbo started well. But, that soon got worked out by smart(ish) oppositions. The facts are in the list - finished 9th, last year, with some momentum, added competent talent, lost a couple who were honorably battling to the end, so a net gain and, I'm (not really) afraid to say, we ain't gonna finish with a net gain for the year (unless what's been dished up thus far was a ruse).
Anyways, it's driving me nuts. And, as I've noted before, it really is very disturbing to listen or read of people defaulting to potting individual younguns as the problem, when the problem is truly one of systematic failure. I'm a big fan of the strategic observance, and I see bugger all on offer from our 'planning department'.
And, I gotta eat.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
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Re: Mr. Richardson
I'm not sure that we armchair critics are really qualified to judge the performance of Alan Richardson as head coach, and I go along with the views expressed previously that the Saints are still in a "development" phase. I recall that according to the Master Plan revealed by the club in 2015 that it would not be until 2018 that St Kilda would be contending for a finals spot, with premierships windows opening from 2020 - 2022. So in a sense St Kilda remain on track to achieve those goals.
The only consideration I have for 2018 is that St Kilda revamp their Assistant Coaching ranks, similar to what Richmond have done in 2017, with considerable success. And who better to bring in as a Senior Assistant than Luke Hodge, someone with a proven record as an uncompromising hard nut, a great team man, elite leadership skills, and his primary role should be to inject all of his strengths and passion into our young leaders. I can't imagine that Hodgey would tolerate some of the lackluster on field performances on display in the last 2 games.
The final change that needs to be made is to beef up our on field leadership - I never agreed with elevating Geary to captaincy, and I am absolutely amazed at the number of times that the players huddle pre-game or after half-time is still being addressed by Nick Riewoldt. Obviously the club won't sack Geary after just 1 season, but the way to fix that is to appoint a couple of co-captains (any one of Ross, Weller, Newnes) to share that role.
The only consideration I have for 2018 is that St Kilda revamp their Assistant Coaching ranks, similar to what Richmond have done in 2017, with considerable success. And who better to bring in as a Senior Assistant than Luke Hodge, someone with a proven record as an uncompromising hard nut, a great team man, elite leadership skills, and his primary role should be to inject all of his strengths and passion into our young leaders. I can't imagine that Hodgey would tolerate some of the lackluster on field performances on display in the last 2 games.
The final change that needs to be made is to beef up our on field leadership - I never agreed with elevating Geary to captaincy, and I am absolutely amazed at the number of times that the players huddle pre-game or after half-time is still being addressed by Nick Riewoldt. Obviously the club won't sack Geary after just 1 season, but the way to fix that is to appoint a couple of co-captains (any one of Ross, Weller, Newnes) to share that role.
"To do good is noble. To tell others to do good is even nobler and much less trouble.."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
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Re: Mr. Richardson
I was being ironic mate ( I think?The OtherThommo wrote:Love ya jiggster, but you're dreamin'.thejiggingsaint wrote:Okay! Richo took FIVE seasons! Who's splitting hairs about THAT!Con Gorozidis wrote:Clarkson won a flag in his 4th season.Joffa Burns wrote:Wow, sack another contracted coach?
I'm sure that will do us a world of good in securing a quality replacement.
The process was to build talent and pick off a couple of free agenets in 2018/2019.
Richo should see out his contract and his part of the process.
Like many have written on this thread, clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong started their era of success on the back of a coach who was under pressure.
I'm backing Richo for finals in 2018!![]()
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Only 1 Dork pushed for Clarkson - Dunstall (he was footy op's mgr, or some such, at the time).
Dunstall was a Dork man through and through. The Dorks were not far past surviving a merger attempt. But, they were dominated by Dorkmen.
We're an 'industry club'. Generally beholden, usually deferential. Wot, saved by Finnis? He's on the corporate ladder, travelling the same path as Andy the Shifty. The PA path to 'success' (wasn't he in charge when E'dope happened - obviously a solid man on employee rights?).
This game's rotten to its core. If you want an idea of what they 'value', look back no further than the recent 'office affair scandal'.
Brand management, pure and simple. Adults engaged in what adults will do, from time to time. No allegations of victimisation, no coercion. Yes, an imbalance of power, so generally smackable. But, FFS, deal with it in house.
Gill the Dill made it issue of the day - 'we are an ethical institution that brooks no challenge to our purity'. The outcome?
Public humiliation for the blokes and their families involved, and social media 'sl*t shaming' for the women, ergo instant pariahs.
And, Richo's an industry man. Nice bloke, obviously. But, how many jobs at how many clubs? Anything in his CV to stamp him as exceptional, even interesting, with the odd off the wall idea?
Nup, nowhere. Acceptable mediocrity personified.
Lyon changed things, Clarkson most definitely changed things, and keeps doing it.
Adelaide chose Don Pyke. Long career, nuttin' much had happened - in and out of acedmemia, for instance. Brisbane chose a bloke who had been what in coaching ranks?
But, who is the biggest influence on contemporary coaching trends, without doubt? It's Clarkson, right? Is he even entertaining the idea that the Dorks will have to bottom out? How are his no-names coming along? Until earlier this year I'd heard of the Dork's 'Brand', but not the Dork's 'Brand', if you get my drift.
How's their injury numbers been? Shockin'. They've played games they've won where their back 6 average age would be about 12 if Hodge wasn't back there.
So, I have a name.
Ratten.
He had F.A. cattle when he coached Carlton, yet took 'em to finals. Yet, they sacked him for Malted Milkhouse. And, who gave him a job? Clarkson.
We have to cast an eye. And, no, I'm not a believer in instant saviors.
But, I am a believer in respecting the respected, and how they decide to employ.
To put it simply, the last 2 weeks have busted my trust. We are not developing the talent we have, we play stodgy football (bar 1 or 2 games p.a., like Richmond), we have only 1 game style, no fallback, the players lack resilience as a group, and it's god damn shattering to witness.
To give you an example of what I see as significant strategic weakness, back in round 1, when we were almost humiliated by Melbourne, I told a couple of club (media) 'legends' we already had a significant weakness - we'd gone from having no big key defenders, but a group, covering defence, who would get about to turn the ball over, and send it back at pace, to a side that looked like it was happy to stand back and wait for 2 big, new key defenders to win air balls and distribute the pill to blokes hanging about the edges. If we were going to slow down in the key spots, we needed to quicken up around them. But, no siree, not us. Yes, Robbo started well. But, that soon got worked out by smart(ish) oppositions. The facts are in the list - finished 9th, last year, with some momentum, added competent talent, lost a couple who were honorably battling to the end, so a net gain and, I'm (not really) afraid to say, we ain't gonna finish with a net gain for the year (unless what's been dished up thus far was a ruse).
Anyways, it's driving me nuts. And, as I've noted before, it really is very disturbing to listen or read of people defaulting to potting individual younguns as the problem, when the problem is truly one of systematic failure. I'm a big fan of the strategic observance, and I see bugger all on offer from our 'planning department'.
And, I gotta eat.
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Jeez! I don't know what I've got to laugh about..... I've paid for flights and hotel for Adelaide THIS week!
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( God help me)
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Re: Mr. Richardson
One thing to note. On AFL360 last night Richo in his usual spot had the body language of a totally defeated person. He looked like he was totally lost and bereft of confidence in himself.
Again - this was his body language, not what he said, which was very little.
Again - this was his body language, not what he said, which was very little.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Well then, time for him to make way for our flag-winning coach! Direct from the spirit world, via sponsored seance: Yabby Jeans! Doc Baldock as captain!saintspremiers wrote:One thing to note. On AFL360 last night Richo in his usual spot had the body language of a totally defeated person. He looked like he was totally lost and bereft of confidence in himself.
Again - this was his body language, not what he said, which was very little.
Just WHO can stop us NOW?!
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St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
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( God help me)
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Re: Mr. Richardson
thejiggingsaint wrote:Well then, time for him to make way for our flag-winning coach! Direct from the spirit world, via sponsored seance: Yabby Jeans! Doc Baldock as captain!saintspremiers wrote:One thing to note. On AFL360 last night Richo in his usual spot had the body language of a totally defeated person. He looked like he was totally lost and bereft of confidence in himself.
Again - this was his body language, not what he said, which was very little.
Just WHO can stop us NOW?!![]()
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Freddie!!!
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
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Re: Mr. Richardson
THATS! What I'm a talkin' about! Can I hear a HALLELUJAH ?!saintspremiers wrote:thejiggingsaint wrote:Well then, time for him to make way for our flag-winning coach! Direct from the spirit world, via sponsored seance: Yabby Jeans! Doc Baldock as captain!saintspremiers wrote:One thing to note. On AFL360 last night Richo in his usual spot had the body language of a totally defeated person. He looked like he was totally lost and bereft of confidence in himself.
Again - this was his body language, not what he said, which was very little.
Just WHO can stop us NOW?!![]()
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Freddie!!!
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St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
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Re: Mr. Richardson
I note the quality on here has not improved!!
So, given the current wrist slashing in evidence, I will contribute one further time to spell some facts out loud, because they were missed in the past by many.
We suffer not also from the Lyon and Watters periods, but also because of the relative success we had under Lyon.
Hence you look at the List in 2017.
1) Top 10 Draft Picks relied upon to rebuild - Billings, McCartin and Freeman (traded in)
2) First Round Picks relied upon to rebuild - Dunstan, Acres, Goddard, Gresham
3) Traded in and relied upon to rebuild - Carlisle
4) From Lyon/Watters period contributing to a rebuild - Gilbert, Armitage, Steven
5) Later Draft Picks who have transitioned above expectation - Ross, Newnes
6) Later Draft Picks relied upon to transition above expectation - White, Battle
7) The remainder who have found themselves at St Kilda, generally unable to command regular games at their previous Clubs - Brown, Roberton, Bruce, Membrey, Longer, Hickey, Stevens, Steele, Weller. Are there more?
And, into that mix we endorse a GOP as Captain - and ToT makes the excellent point re the structure of our defence with Carlisle and the support required to maximise on Carlisle - hence White described as he is above.
We are a licorice all-sorts List.
A grab-bag of whoever. from where ever
Then you look at the impact of injury in 2017 - along with the absence of opportunity for some.
So we RELY on Riewoldt and Montagna - at the ages they are and when their influence drops, so do we, and that is a real problem which asks questions the very real question of the bag of licorice all-sorts we have assembled, and that bag has been found wanting.
It is not that Riewoldt is out of form - it is that we still rely on him that is the problem.
Those players in the first 4 categories above have to be played - week in and week out and in "guts" positions so Acres in the mid field not as he is being used, which is a waste trying to set up a mis-match in the F50 and having him "fill a hole" in the D50.
Ross and Newnes are required to increase influence and White and Battle are required to bring influence as they gain experience and maturity.
So, to date, we have grabbed whoever we can and some, such as Bruce and Membrey and Hickey et al got under the opposition radar initially, but no longer so they are now tested on ability, not being underestimated.
The message sent, endorsed by who it was including on here, making Geary the Captain sent the wrong message, and we now see the result.
I previously mentioned somewhere on here the example of the licorice all-sorts SA Sheffield Shield side with Klinger, Christian etc. etc all of whom could not get games in their States of origin, then Botha, stifling the pathway of talented kids.
So the SACA moved them all on mid season (and Berry who was the Coach) - and gave the Captaincy to a precocious 20 year old to lead a young side - haven't won the Shield as yet but have made the last 2 Finals.
St Kilda took the wrong path - it sent the wrong message and it put question on the credibility of the organisation because intent is accordingly questionable
And, yes, that may be down to the Corporate's following the Corporate hand sheet instead of bold instinct and daring
So, suck that up fellow believers!!
See ya!!!!
And, just to finish, some still promote the likes of Minchington and Rice as saviors, on the basis of "Meatball" and romance.
Sorry.
So, given the current wrist slashing in evidence, I will contribute one further time to spell some facts out loud, because they were missed in the past by many.
We suffer not also from the Lyon and Watters periods, but also because of the relative success we had under Lyon.
Hence you look at the List in 2017.
1) Top 10 Draft Picks relied upon to rebuild - Billings, McCartin and Freeman (traded in)
2) First Round Picks relied upon to rebuild - Dunstan, Acres, Goddard, Gresham
3) Traded in and relied upon to rebuild - Carlisle
4) From Lyon/Watters period contributing to a rebuild - Gilbert, Armitage, Steven
5) Later Draft Picks who have transitioned above expectation - Ross, Newnes
6) Later Draft Picks relied upon to transition above expectation - White, Battle
7) The remainder who have found themselves at St Kilda, generally unable to command regular games at their previous Clubs - Brown, Roberton, Bruce, Membrey, Longer, Hickey, Stevens, Steele, Weller. Are there more?
And, into that mix we endorse a GOP as Captain - and ToT makes the excellent point re the structure of our defence with Carlisle and the support required to maximise on Carlisle - hence White described as he is above.
We are a licorice all-sorts List.
A grab-bag of whoever. from where ever
Then you look at the impact of injury in 2017 - along with the absence of opportunity for some.
So we RELY on Riewoldt and Montagna - at the ages they are and when their influence drops, so do we, and that is a real problem which asks questions the very real question of the bag of licorice all-sorts we have assembled, and that bag has been found wanting.
It is not that Riewoldt is out of form - it is that we still rely on him that is the problem.
Those players in the first 4 categories above have to be played - week in and week out and in "guts" positions so Acres in the mid field not as he is being used, which is a waste trying to set up a mis-match in the F50 and having him "fill a hole" in the D50.
Ross and Newnes are required to increase influence and White and Battle are required to bring influence as they gain experience and maturity.
So, to date, we have grabbed whoever we can and some, such as Bruce and Membrey and Hickey et al got under the opposition radar initially, but no longer so they are now tested on ability, not being underestimated.
The message sent, endorsed by who it was including on here, making Geary the Captain sent the wrong message, and we now see the result.
I previously mentioned somewhere on here the example of the licorice all-sorts SA Sheffield Shield side with Klinger, Christian etc. etc all of whom could not get games in their States of origin, then Botha, stifling the pathway of talented kids.
So the SACA moved them all on mid season (and Berry who was the Coach) - and gave the Captaincy to a precocious 20 year old to lead a young side - haven't won the Shield as yet but have made the last 2 Finals.
St Kilda took the wrong path - it sent the wrong message and it put question on the credibility of the organisation because intent is accordingly questionable
And, yes, that may be down to the Corporate's following the Corporate hand sheet instead of bold instinct and daring
So, suck that up fellow believers!!
See ya!!!!
And, just to finish, some still promote the likes of Minchington and Rice as saviors, on the basis of "Meatball" and romance.
Sorry.
- WellardSaint
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Re: Mr. Richardson
if the club says finals in 2018, then this year is all about setting up for a run at the top 8
next year.
So Pharaoh Ramses (because he's in denial- in de Nile) will keep on plugging away with all the positive and pleasing stuff.
Having read ToT's long post, it's totally worth the read, and contains some really juicy stuff.
The club could approach Ratten's management (and the Hawks) and tell him he's on our shortlist for 2019 senior coach,
if he wants it.
Clarko offered him a job, so that's good enough for me.
Getting a taste of the Hawks' system would be a great education.
AR studied in the US (was it Hawaii?) but what good has that done for him?
You know, if he unravels the current set-up, so what, as long as the team gets more competitive and starts on the road to finals.
next year.
So Pharaoh Ramses (because he's in denial- in de Nile) will keep on plugging away with all the positive and pleasing stuff.
Having read ToT's long post, it's totally worth the read, and contains some really juicy stuff.
The club could approach Ratten's management (and the Hawks) and tell him he's on our shortlist for 2019 senior coach,
if he wants it.
Clarko offered him a job, so that's good enough for me.
Getting a taste of the Hawks' system would be a great education.
AR studied in the US (was it Hawaii?) but what good has that done for him?
You know, if he unravels the current set-up, so what, as long as the team gets more competitive and starts on the road to finals.
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Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Re: Mr. Richardson
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!The OtherThommo wrote:
And, Richo's an industry man. Nice bloke, obviously. But, how many jobs at how many clubs? Anything in his CV to stamp him as exceptional, even interesting, with the odd off the wall idea?
1999-2000 back to back flags coaching the mighty Ramrods!
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
(Tragically, it's now the once-mighty Ramrods.
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Angry-Little-Man syndrome, I have to begrudgingly admit is a damn good coach. (Way better than his public persona. Not knowing him personally, I can't comment on what he's like in private.) However, so much in life is a matter of inches. (I'm talking proverbial inches, c/f Clark's stature.The OtherThommo wrote: Lyon changed things, Clarkson most definitely changed things, and keeps doing it.
But, who is the biggest influence on contemporary coaching trends, without doubt? It's Clarkson, right? Is he even entertaining the idea that the Dorks will have to bottom out? How are his no-names coming along? Until earlier this year I'd heard of the Dork's 'Brand', but not the Dork's 'Brand', if you get my drift.
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- He only just survived being Jeffed. That was back in the early days when he had the Dawks playing 'ring-a-ring-around-a-rosy' footy racking up meaningless possies in the backline, before handing the thing back to the opposition to kick another goal.)
- Then, the natives were getting very restless over the years of under-achievement that followed the 2008 flag. That PF against the Hillbillies... Dawks were in all sorts of trouble at 3/4 time, but came back due to key injuries to the Hillbillies. But even then, with seconds left to play, Varcoe steadies, yet misses from 30m out right in front. Kick that one, it's into extra time, and anything could have happened. If the Dawks had lost, A-L-M syndrome would probably have been out of a job.
As for Ro$$y changing things up, indeed he did. Could have easily had 2+ flags... inches again.
Thommo! Alfred E Neuman???The OtherThommo wrote:So, I have a name.
Ratten.
He had F.A. cattle when he coached Carlton, yet took 'em to finals.
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Totally uninspiring. Spent half his time barracking, not coaching. And don't forget that he also won them the Kruiser Cup. (Though I guess that was no mean feat, out-tanking the tankard masters at their own game.
![Evil or Very Mad :evil:](./images/smilies/icon_evil.gif)
Oversaw an inept rebuild. All those prime picks, and not a decent key position player amongst them. (In fact, hardly a decent player, period.) Got Judd before the club team was 'ready', which further set back the rebuild. Sadly, SOS is now there, and they're finally on the right track. Last of the 'power' clubs to wake up to the fact that you can't go out and buy a premiership team anymore.
How about we get Ro$$y back? Con would like that.
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What was on the menu?The OtherThommo wrote: And, I gotta eat.
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It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)