I really rate Longer, Lonie and Dunstan...

[skeptic]

But none of them are ready just yet.

IMO they all tick the box and stay on the list for another season or so but it's clear that for one reason or another, these guys are simply not ready to hit their straps.

Dunstan IMO needs a bigger tank for the game he wants to play. He needs to be able to get to more contests, make more tackles and more importantly get more possessions... add a footnote to that should his fitness reach the level it needs to be, his disposal might be get better (especially later in games) if he's not so exhausted all the time.
When I think of Dunstan, I think of the interview Seb Ross gave a year or two ago when he said the most frustrating thing for him was that it took him years to build the fitness base to be able to compete the training regime needed to be elite.

IMO he needs shorter stints in the seniors and play more impact football (go full blast, then rest, full blast, then rest) and he needs regular stints at Sandy to play full games as a mid and work on fitness that way.

Longer simply doesn't have the coordination and presence needed yet. He's shown that he has some tools to work with but he's not yet strong/tough enough and lacks presence. Let him go back to Sandy and work on this for a while and then have 4-6 game stints in the seniors at a time.

Lonie... we know he's a footballer. He is absolutely a class above the VFL yet when he goes into the seniors, something doesn't translate. Part of it is clearly psychological as he lacks composure and good decision making... he's playing like a man who is worried that each game may be his last and he chokes a lot.
His disposal at VFL is a class above what it is at AFL. I also think that he's another who just doesn't quite have the fitness base yet and is more exhausted when he gets the ball then we realise. He's another who IMO would benefit from 2-3 game stints, go back to Sandy, force his way in and have another go until he gets more consistent.


For all of these guys though, they've had reasonable opportunity this season... I want to see their counterparts have more of a go or for us to structure more differently.

[carn_sainter]

Lonie at 23 or 25, if he's been in the system the whole time, will be a very good afl footballer. He is a cocky, feisty little bugger who plays like he has been the best player in his team more or less his whole life. But more than just cocky, he is brave too, as that big contest at the start of the 4th showed.

I reckon he'll make it. I don't think he is Stephen Milne nor Luke Parker nor Caleb Daniel, but he might be like Neale or Ballantyne. It will take time. He needs more strength and that will help him develop more poise and then he will be more confident and really start to assert himself like he does in the VFL. Years worth. It won't happen by the end of this season.

I don't know if we or another club will be able to give him 4 or 5 years development time. He's had two already...

But if he gets that time he'll make it.


As you say, Dunstan is mainly a tank thing. It's not his only deficiency, but that is his limiting factor vis-a-vis developing his deficiencies.


Longer: I'm unconvinced. I don't see it. I thought and think he is a good insurance policy on the list but not a good first ruck. Speaking of coordination, he reminds me sometimes of those big air powered giant inflatable dancing things out the front of car dealerships. I don't question his endeavour but ideally, I reckon, he's a 2nd or 3rd ruck.

[ROLS-LEE]

Dunstan needs a bigger tank and is generally greedy around goals but usually does not convert.

Lonie is a funny one. Not big enough not quick enough not strong enough but is smart enough. Needs confidents but can you get that in our forward line???

Longer great tap ruck men but does nothing else. Those days are gone. Slow, looks lazy always out of position. Rarely marks. Needs bigger tank, more aggresive at the contest and needs to learn to be an option and take a mark.

Out of the three i can only see dunstan making it, but will it be with us?

[Con Gorozidis]

Delusional OP I am afraid.
Don't see much upside in this bunch.
Too many glaring flaws.

[Dave McNamara]

Lonie is a great kick, yet, rarely nails a set shot, and misses too many shots from general play also. He actually gets enough shots on goal, but he really really needs to kick those goals to hold his place in the team longer term. This, combined with being too small, but, not being lightning quick. In fact, I wouldn't even call him quick.

Dunstan - yep, no tank, and I've been surprised by how poorly he generally kicks it. However, there's hope for Luke whilst he still has our beloved desertsaint's patronage.

Billy. Not sure who was more surprised when Billy held onto an overhead mark against the Shockers... me or Billy...?

Come on Billy apologists. Lets be realistic. He can't mark, kick, handball, pick the ball up off the ground, nor even keep up with his opposition ruckman. And, if he does get a tap, it's irrelevant... it just goes... wherever...

We are literally playing one man short with Billy. Play any of our other ruck options over Billy, and the team is improved. Overall, the team literally would be better off, with even Lonie playing first ruck.

[skeptic]

It's definitely time for Hickey to come back in

[takeaway]

Dunstan Yes
Longer Yes
Lonie No

[Proph3t of egan]

I don't really get how people can complain about Bruce in the ruck, but want Hickey to play first ruck all day.

[samoht]

Lonie at 23 or 25, if he's been in the system the whole time, will be a very good afl footballer. He is a cocky, feisty little bugger who plays like he has been the best player in his team more or less his whole life. But more than just cocky, he is brave too, as that big contest at the start of the 4th showed.

I don't see cocky - I see panicky with ball in hand, in the sense that he's seldom composed in a way that Gresham usually is, for instance. Lonie is generally in a rush to get rid of the ball, often treats it like a hot potato and just wants to quickly move it on or forward, rather than to look for a team mate.
He is brave and tough, though - but as you said, he needs to get more poise (=less panicky) - maybe this will come with experience or by building more strength, as you suggest.

[bigred]

I see a regular turnover culprit.
I see a player that gets moved off the ball far too often.
I see a player that repeatedly misses tackles.

[Linton Lodger]

Delusional OP I am afraid.
Don't see much upside in this bunch.
Too many glaring flaws.

Actually, far from delusional and a good assessment.

Dunstan will be a fine grunt insider when his tank enables.

Longer will be a good solid ruckman, although Hickey is the No.1.

Lonie will be a gun small forward and will be in the realms of Milne. Milne had more strength, but Lonie is better by foot (in fact elite by foot), more couragious and better overhead. He is freakish overhead for a bloke his size.

[Sainternist]

I believe Dunstan and Lonie still have plenty of potential.

Unsure about Billy, though. For the meantime, we'll take him as ballast.

[carn_sainter]

Lonie will be a gun small forward and will be in the realms of Milne. Milne had more strength, but Lonie is better by foot (in fact elite by foot), more couragious and better overhead. He is freakish overhead for a bloke his size.

Sorry, this is too much. Milne was a once in a generation player, one of the hardest players to stop so far this century. I have no problems with Lonie as my post above attests but this is too much.

[Linton Lodger]

Lonie will be a gun small forward and will be in the realms of Milne. Milne had more strength, but Lonie is better by foot (in fact elite by foot), more couragious and better overhead. He is freakish overhead for a bloke his size.

Sorry, this is too much. Milne was a once in a generation player, one of the hardest players to stop so far this century. I have no problems with Lonie as my post above attests but this is too much.

Milne was far from great in his first 8 seasons. Lonie is ahead of Milne at the same stage of their careers.

[milney044]

Wow i must have missed Lonie kicking 50 goals in his 2nd season!
If Lonie is half as good as Milne I'll be stoked.

[Devilhead]

Dunstan - 22yo - 63 games - has good vision and awareness but doesn't get enough of it especially as an inside coal face player - when he does his disposal by foot can be sloppy - agree that he needs to improve his tank if he doesn't others will go past him if they haven't already - already been dropped twice this year and likely to be dropped again - not holding out high hopes

Longer - 24yo - 53 games - 2016 season was decimated by injury - had a decent 2015 season and is tracking slightly below that in terms of stats this year (av. kicks and marks down - but av. more handballs, hitouts and tackles) - definitely has rucking ability and shows strength at ball ups and throw ins - holds his own against slower gorilla rucks but struggles against more mobile ruckmen around the ground - probably still trying to find his feet after a long layoff but needs to build his engine - big guys take time? - still think he can make it but needs to have a few massive pre-seasons

Lonie - 20yo - 34 games - has courage, a few tricks and a decent engine but is slow for a small - needs to work on his strength and his confidence to take on the game and shooting for goal - twice he opted to pass when in range on the weekend (albeit on the boundary) but most other small forwards would have backed themselves in and taken the shot - probably not strong enough to go through the middle so unless he builds his strength base he will be consigned to a small forward role only - likely that another small forward in time may take his place as his speed is a big issue and its a required non-negotiable factor when playing this role - like the way he goes about it but I think he may just fall short (pardon the pun)

[Con Gorozidis]

Milne was far from great in his first 8 seasons. Lonie is ahead of Milne at the same stage of their careers.

Milne kicked 574 career goals and 50 in his 2nd season. After his first 5 seasons he already had 208 goals to his name.
Lonie will need to kick 50 a year for the next 11 seasons starting 2018 to catch up.

Longer - seems to have huge trouble judging the ball in flight. Poor timing. CAn this be fixed at 24? I doubt it

Dunstan - has very poor running for a midfielder. This is a huge obstacle.

[borderbarry]

Longer has a bit of mongrel about him, and that I think, is why gets a game before Tom Hickey.

[older saint]

Dunstan has a skill of being able get to space despite lack of speed. I think the Seb Ross comparison is a good one, bit of a man child who probably could be a bit leaner and cover the ground better. Has football smarts though.

Ruckman develop later and i think Longer is one of this . Only 24 and will be at prime at 27-28 as not athletic . Lack of ability to catch is a concern. Worth persisting with long term ( although i think should be dropped this week) and try to be a Mumford type.

Lonie - frustrates the hell out of me as quite skilled but wasteful around goal. Seems likely to be able to move up the ground a bit more too. Probably in front of Minchington, but has fallen well behind Sinclair.

[kosifantutti]

Lonie will be a gun small forward and will be in the realms of Milne. Milne had more strength, but Lonie is better by foot (in fact elite by foot), more couragious and better overhead. He is freakish overhead for a bloke his size.

Sorry, this is too much. Milne was a once in a generation player, one of the hardest players to stop so far this century. I have no problems with Lonie as my post above attests but this is too much.

Milne was far from great in his first 8 seasons. Lonie is ahead of Milne at the same stage of their careers.

I can only assume you mean at the same age, because Lonie is still younger than Milne when he debuted. But Milne was great in his first 8 seasons.

Lonie is still young but Milne would be ahead in every category.

[kosifantutti]

And any excuse to post this Milne magic from his first year.

[SaintPav]

Longer has a bit of mongrel about him, and that I think, is why gets a game before Tom Hickey.

You wanted to trade Hickey at the end of last year based on his break out year and being more valuable than Longer!!

While Hickey is obviously now struggling for who knows why, Longer is a poor option.

Face facts Barry, Longer rarely present as an option and is practically useless after a ball up/stoppage.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Lonie will be a gun small forward and will be in the realms of Milne. Milne had more strength, but Lonie is better by foot (in fact elite by foot), more couragious and better overhead. He is freakish overhead for a bloke his size.

Sorry, this is too much. Milne was a once in a generation player, one of the hardest players to stop so far this century. I have no problems with Lonie as my post above attests but this is too much.

Milne was far from great in his first 8 seasons. Lonie is ahead of Milne at the same stage of their careers.

Sorry, LL, that's one of the strangest comments I've read on this site.
Milne was a dynamo right from the start. If Lonie were half as good I'd be happy.

And just for the record, while everyone fawns over Eddie Betts, Milne's goal average
was better. And Milne spent much of his career in Lyon's low-scoring sides. The best
goal sneak St Kilda has ever seen and one of the best the game has ever seen period.

[Yorkeys]

Watched the replay with the benefit of the calmness only knowing the result can bring. It seemed to me all three are improving and each played good parts in the win, which really was of the top order. Luke, imo, often gets important touches to keep the opposition from making clear breaks and he does set up others; cannot fault his endeavour. Jack gets limited opportunities and sometimes tries to over egg them but is getting to be a better decision maker, is brave and can kick and helps in the contest, opposition have to watch him carefully. Billy, imo, is underestimated and took some timely marks (surprise!) and I'd like to think is learning every week, he misses tackles on quicker smalls at times but is in there harassing and reduces the thinking time for the opposition. He hit the much vaunted and v. tall Freo ruck in the head with his knee at a centre bounce, that's quite a nice athletic leap, yes? Commentators theme was how good Freo young ruck was and how he pushed Billy aside. Maybe once but I couldn't see the reason for all the praise - other than lets pump up a new 110kg face. Billy beat him, I thought. I reckon AR knows his stuff and his players.

[mad saint guy]

Dunstan right now would have to be the least effective/dangerous inside midfielder getting regular games in the competition, just like last year. When he gets 25+ disposals he adds value but he generally gets nowhere near the 20 disposal mark, has little physical presence, has no pace, is not damaging with his disposal and his opponent regularly burns him and ends up being an open target inside 50. He has actually gone backwards since his debut year and is a real concern going forward. I would love for him to find a groove like Ross, but the reason I don't believe it's going to happen is because Seb was a slow burn but at least he has shown improvement throughout every year of his career. Dunstan has only stalled and gone backwards with four years in the system.

Lonie has some smarts and skills but right now his decision making isn't where it needs to be to compensate for his lack of size, strength and speed. To succeed at AFL level as a slow midget you need to nail every opportunity that comes your way and he hasn't been doing that for two seasons now. There is still some hope for him if he can get a bit stronger and more reliable with his skills but as it sits he is being gifted games on potential rather than performance. In every other game he has been a liability this year.

Longer is someone I thought had potential to become elite but he too has not improved at all in the last two years and right now offers nothing more than Trent Knobel did throughout his career - he's a slightly above average tap ruckman and a liability around the ground. It is absolutely baffling to me that he is being played ahead of Hickey who was probably the 5th or 6th best ruckman in the league last year. Longer may well improve in the future as he is still young for a ruckman but his performances this year have not justified his regular selection ahead of Hickey who is a competent tap ruckman and a weapon around the ground. w`