If we are truly honest and believe we can consistently beat the GWS, Crows etc of rhe competition we wouldn't he contemplating adding to our list with free angency. The facts are we're a few players short of being a consistently top team. At our very best, and with the players total belief ( between the ears ) we can beat them. But we have to be at 100%. Hard to do. We need the better players to come in so that when we play at 90_95% we still are competitive and win our share of top games. At the moment we're working on figuring out who our best 18 are so when the new ones come in we are ready to strike. Sounds strange I know but we were never going to challenge this year and perhaps not next year but it's closer. Dogs last year was the perfect storm. I know Luke fairly well and I Can assure you no one was more surprised than him.Johnny Member wrote:Tony74, not sure if you can answer this, or want to, but...tony74 wrote:No,it's not all doom and gloom. We're putrid at the moment, they're no excuses. Totally lacking in confidence. But it'll turn around, it's amazing how much is above the shoulders.
Is it really all just above the shoulders?
Is the club of the belief that we have the cattle, and the strategy to be winning games against the Geelong's and Adelaide's of the competition? And that the poor performances we've seen this year are all mental?
FWIW, I don't.
Now granted, it's just the opinion of some random dude in the stands so there's a big chance I'm wrong - but I see issues in terms of class on our list, I see issues with selection, which ties into the issues I see with a very simplistic strategy. Now I know simplistic can be good - but our simplistic is just too easy to coach against.
The GWS game is being used as 'evidence' by some as to what we're capable of, but I think that game gave us a false economy.
Is it all doom and gloom?
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
I agree.MC Gusto wrote:hope to god we take our two top 10 picks to the draft. FA can be done with salary cap only for the right players.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
tony74 wrote:If we are truly honest and believe we can consistently beat the GWS, Crows etc of rhe competition we wouldn't he contemplating adding to our list with free angency. The facts are we're a few players short of being a consistently top team. At our very best, and with the players total belief ( between the ears ) we can beat them. But we have to be at 100%. Hard to do. We need the better players to come in so that when we play at 90_95% we still are competitive and win our share of top games. At the moment we're working on figuring out who our best 18 are so when the new ones come in we are ready to strike. Sounds strange I know but we were never going to challenge this year and perhaps not next year but it's closer. Dogs last year was the perfect storm. I know Luke fairly well and I Can assure you no one was more surprised than him.Johnny Member wrote:Tony74, not sure if you can answer this, or want to, but...tony74 wrote:No,it's not all doom and gloom. We're putrid at the moment, they're no excuses. Totally lacking in confidence. But it'll turn around, it's amazing how much is above the shoulders.
Is it really all just above the shoulders?
Is the club of the belief that we have the cattle, and the strategy to be winning games against the Geelong's and Adelaide's of the competition? And that the poor performances we've seen this year are all mental?
FWIW, I don't.
Now granted, it's just the opinion of some random dude in the stands so there's a big chance I'm wrong - but I see issues in terms of class on our list, I see issues with selection, which ties into the issues I see with a very simplistic strategy. Now I know simplistic can be good - but our simplistic is just too easy to coach against.
The GWS game is being used as 'evidence' by some as to what we're capable of, but I think that game gave us a false economy.
Thumbs up.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Something I recall from a couple of years ago is that one of Richo's main goals was "to be in games for longer". I'm wondering how we're going with that?
Also, wasn't "the plan" to get KPPs in first, then midfielders? If we haven't got the mids yet then it's not realistic to expect to be Top 4 until we get them.
Anyway, that's my 2c.
Also, wasn't "the plan" to get KPPs in first, then midfielders? If we haven't got the mids yet then it's not realistic to expect to be Top 4 until we get them.
Anyway, that's my 2c.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
They had a bye, were supposed to clear their heads,
some went to Byron Bay to recharge.
They have learnt to play interstate, see the WCE and Tassy games.
In Adelaide- totally outplayed.
They didn't show any signs of improving during the game, just got worse.
Coach had no idea how to stem the bleeding.
Press Conference showed him ashen-faced and worn out.
A loss of less than 8 goals would be nice.
It will be yet another sorry loss
some went to Byron Bay to recharge.
They have learnt to play interstate, see the WCE and Tassy games.
In Adelaide- totally outplayed.
They didn't show any signs of improving during the game, just got worse.
Coach had no idea how to stem the bleeding.
Press Conference showed him ashen-faced and worn out.
A loss of less than 8 goals would be nice.
It will be yet another sorry loss
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and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
You are clearly a poster who gets off on whinging and whining, so I probably shouldn't challenge you.WellardSaint wrote:In Adelaide- totally outplayed.
They didn't show any signs of improving during the game, just got worse.
Coach had no idea how to stem the bleeding.
Press Conference showed him ashen-faced and worn out.
However, I reckon this is an overstatement. We came out with the wrong structure in the first quarter against the Crows and, aided by a lopsided free kick count, they stole a march on us. In quarters 2 and 3 we improved our structure and looked more competitive. If we had converted a few more of our chances, we might even have remained in touch.
I still think our biggest problem at the moment is our failure to capitalise on our entries to our forward 50. We are as good as just about anyone at getting the ball to our half-forward line, and then it consistently goes wrong. Some say it's mainly due to poor position play by our forwards, and some say it's a tendency for our midfield to bomb it towards the goal square. Clearly it's a combination of these two factors, along with the basic fact that - unless and until Paddy really hits his stride - we don't quite have the firepower up front to be a top side.
I reckon we need to trade not only for a crack midfielder (if we can get one) but also for a top quality forward: tall or small probably doesn't matter all that much.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Good to hear that Footscray's flag was a fluke. Unfortunately that doesn't change history for us though but shows how a fair bit of luck can go a long way to winning a flag when you're at the pointy end
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
While the last three matches have been extremely poor, there is still upside. We know footy can turn around very quickly. Look at any team in the competition, all have had very low lows this year and all have had very high highs. It's just that even. We can bounce back. And we are by no means out of finals contention. I doubt many had us winning more than 5 of our first 11 games at the beginning of the year? Would many have been surprised if they'd been told our low point would be after games against 1st, 2nd and 5th from last season?
As it stands we are a win and percentage ahead of where we were this time last year, with a harder draw. We are a win away from 5th. If we win our next two games against teams below us, we will be in the 8.
Only once have we lost to a team below us on the ladder at the time of playing them (Sydney). That stat goes all the way back to Round 16 last season.
Our draw from here is perfect to establish where we sit. Every game is winnable bar one in my opinion. We should not be blown away like we have been in recent weeks again (bar maybe the Port game).
We do not play any of who I think are the genuine premiership threats from here. GWS, Adelaide, Geelong and Western Bulldogs.
While the last 3 matches have been concerning, it's the next half of the season that will really tell us where we're at, and I'm confident that's higher than where we are now.
As it stands we are a win and percentage ahead of where we were this time last year, with a harder draw. We are a win away from 5th. If we win our next two games against teams below us, we will be in the 8.
Only once have we lost to a team below us on the ladder at the time of playing them (Sydney). That stat goes all the way back to Round 16 last season.
Our draw from here is perfect to establish where we sit. Every game is winnable bar one in my opinion. We should not be blown away like we have been in recent weeks again (bar maybe the Port game).
We do not play any of who I think are the genuine premiership threats from here. GWS, Adelaide, Geelong and Western Bulldogs.
While the last 3 matches have been concerning, it's the next half of the season that will really tell us where we're at, and I'm confident that's higher than where we are now.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
nice balance, great comments, good logic,Joe Bloggs wrote:Onya Beno nice uplifting post.
helps to counter those naysayers like myself who think the sky is falling
and we are doomed like that ancient Greek king Sisyphus.
I hope you're right, but I personally have grave doubts that we can beat anyone else this year,
after seeing how skilled the Bombers are, and how composed the Dees are, in front of 70k
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Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
If you're into Camus then Sisyphus didn't suffer at his fate.WellardSaint wrote:nice balance, great comments, good logic,Joe Bloggs wrote:Onya Beno nice uplifting post.
helps to counter those naysayers like myself who think the sky is falling
and we are doomed like that ancient Greek king Sisyphus.
I hope you're right, but I personally have grave doubts that we can beat anyone else this year,
after seeing how skilled the Bombers are, and how composed the Dees are, in front of 70k
"The struggle itself [...] is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy".
How apt is that as a Saints fan!
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Well, if the club has any heart and the players have any pride, they should come out and beat North, Too much crap going on with Montagna and Dermy in the media, the sledging fiasco, Richo looking totally defeated in the presser last Friday. I just think there is something not right at the club, maybe more than we know.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Agree, except for the coach being in trouble!Johnny Member wrote:I did ramble with this one.Sainternist wrote:Any chance you can start making your posts more concise, JM?
No offense, but it's all pretty long-winded stuff. You don't need to be writing university-type papers about the current state of the team. Simply a paragraph or two could suffice. Try the "less is more" approach.
I actually had a point but hadn't quite worked out exactly what it was yet! So I started typing trying to articulate my thoughts, and I realised I actually had two slightly different points. So I merged them into one.
In a nutshell:
We suck.
But I think we will be good in 2-3 years.
If the club pull the pin on the 'blueprint for success', then there's nothing to really worry about.
If they don't, then we're in trouble. And so is the coach.
Old enough to repaint, but young enough to sell
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
If we lose to North Melbourne he might start to feel a little hot under the collar.Bernard Shakey wrote:Agree, except for the coach being in trouble!Johnny Member wrote:I did ramble with this one.Sainternist wrote:Any chance you can start making your posts more concise, JM?
No offense, but it's all pretty long-winded stuff. You don't need to be writing university-type papers about the current state of the team. Simply a paragraph or two could suffice. Try the "less is more" approach.
I actually had a point but hadn't quite worked out exactly what it was yet! So I started typing trying to articulate my thoughts, and I realised I actually had two slightly different points. So I merged them into one.
In a nutshell:
We suck.
But I think we will be good in 2-3 years.
If the club pull the pin on the 'blueprint for success', then there's nothing to really worry about.
If they don't, then we're in trouble. And so is the coach.
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
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- Johnny Member
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
I'm not saying he should be in trouble.
I'm just saying that if the club really did set him a target 3 years ago, and they still maintain that expectation - that he will be in trouble if he doesn't meet it.
I'm just saying that if the club really did set him a target 3 years ago, and they still maintain that expectation - that he will be in trouble if he doesn't meet it.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Does Armo's brother still post here?
Armo still out for 6 weeks.
Hasn't started running yet.
Isn't happy with the club.
He wanted to rest, club forced him to play and he got injured.
Not all is well.
Armo still out for 6 weeks.
Hasn't started running yet.
Isn't happy with the club.
He wanted to rest, club forced him to play and he got injured.
Not all is well.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Somebody help me out. I'm trying to count the 3 inside-20 picks in 3 years on the list:
2013
Jack Billings
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres
2014
Paddy McCartin
Goddard (21... actually a lower pick if interpreted a certain way)
McKenzie (22... actually a lower pick if interpreted a certain way)
2015
Jade Gresham
Carlisle (swapped)
Nathan Freeman (for a later pick, but he was originally a top 10 pick for the Pies... so this is a reinterpretation)
Have I got this right?
2013
Jack Billings
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres
2014
Paddy McCartin
Goddard (21... actually a lower pick if interpreted a certain way)
McKenzie (22... actually a lower pick if interpreted a certain way)
2015
Jade Gresham
Carlisle (swapped)
Nathan Freeman (for a later pick, but he was originally a top 10 pick for the Pies... so this is a reinterpretation)
Have I got this right?
Gordon Fode couldda been Plugga
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Rumour is that he was spotted running laps on Monday at Seaford actually.The_President wrote:Does Armo's brother still post here?
Armo still out for 6 weeks.
Hasn't started running yet.
Isn't happy with the club.
He wanted to rest, club forced him to play and he got injured.
Not all is well.
- Johnny Member
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Yeah, I think that's them.groupie1 wrote:Somebody help me out. I'm trying to count the 3 inside-20 picks in 3 years on the list:
2013
Jack Billings
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres
2014
Paddy McCartin
Goddard (21... actually a lower pick if interpreted a certain way)
McKenzie (22... actually a lower pick if interpreted a certain way)
2015
Jade Gresham
Carlisle (swapped)
Nathan Freeman (for a later pick, but he was originally a top 10 pick for the Pies... so this is a reinterpretation)
Have I got this right?
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
"Is it all doom and gloom?" Not if we can beat Norf this Friday ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
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( God help me)
- White Winmar
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
Exactly Jiggster. If we win the next two, all will suddenly be forgiven.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
WW despite my bout of sooking and histrionics in the immediate aftermath of last Friday in Adelaide, I'm quick to forgive the Saints! Hence the reason for me being there on fridee night, ready to put my blood pressure, patience, and temper to the test once again!
Go Saints! ( to hell with the rest!)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Go Saints! ( to hell with the rest!)
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
![⚪️](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/26aa.svg)
( God help me)
- samuraisaint
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
We need to win tomorrow night and win well. We still haven't been able to beat West Coast, Sydney or Adelaide again this year, and I don't want the long standing hoodoo against North to continue. And if we win we draw level against them on our head to head wins and losses.Beno88 wrote:While the last three matches have been extremely poor, there is still upside. We know footy can turn around very quickly. Look at any team in the competition, all have had very low lows this year and all have had very high highs. It's just that even. We can bounce back. And we are by no means out of finals contention. I doubt many had us winning more than 5 of our first 11 games at the beginning of the year? Would many have been surprised if they'd been told our low point would be after games against 1st, 2nd and 5th from last season?
As it stands we are a win and percentage ahead of where we were this time last year, with a harder draw. We are a win away from 5th. If we win our next two games against teams below us, we will be in the 8.
Only once have we lost to a team below us on the ladder at the time of playing them (Sydney). That stat goes all the way back to Round 16 last season.
Our draw from here is perfect to establish where we sit. Every game is winnable bar one in my opinion. We should not be blown away like we have been in recent weeks again (bar maybe the Port game).
We do not play any of who I think are the genuine premiership threats from here. GWS, Adelaide, Geelong and Western Bulldogs.
While the last 3 matches have been concerning, it's the next half of the season that will really tell us where we're at, and I'm confident that's higher than where we are now.
I am glad to see Riewoldt back in, and I think Dunstan makes a difference in the centre. FWIW I think Lonie may be an important in. He's dangerous around goals and with him and Dunstan in I am confident of a bit more physicality around the contest. We will have dodged a bullet if Carlisle and Brown can remain in the side tomorrow night, because I don't fancy going into a game against Ben Brown and Waite with a short defensive setup. I am gradually becoming more confident of us winning this the longer the week has gone on. North might be a bit unlucky this week because we have copped quite a bit of criticism and in my experience, St. Kilda are always at our most dangerous when we look to be at the greatest risk of imploding.
Totally agree that we have the potential to get a few wins in the next 11 games, with the obvious games against Port and Sydney interstate and the match against Richmond at the MCG being games we won't win. If we can win the next 3 or 4 games out of the next 5 we will still be on the right track.
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Re: Is it all doom and gloom?
great post. Some "experts" did not have us finishing in the 8 at start of season because of our hard draw.Beno88 wrote:While the last three matches have been extremely poor, there is still upside. We know footy can turn around very quickly. Look at any team in the competition, all have had very low lows this year and all have had very high highs. It's just that even. We can bounce back. And we are by no means out of finals contention. I doubt many had us winning more than 5 of our first 11 games at the beginning of the year? Would many have been surprised if they'd been told our low point would be after games against 1st, 2nd and 5th from last season?
As it stands we are a win and percentage ahead of where we were this time last year, with a harder draw. We are a win away from 5th. If we win our next two games against teams below us, we will be in the 8.
Only once have we lost to a team below us on the ladder at the time of playing them (Sydney). That stat goes all the way back to Round 16 last season.
Our draw from here is perfect to establish where we sit. Every game is winnable bar one in my opinion. We should not be blown away like we have been in recent weeks again (bar maybe the Port game).
We do not play any of who I think are the genuine premiership threats from here. GWS, Adelaide, Geelong and Western Bulldogs.
While the last 3 matches have been concerning, it's the next half of the season that will really tell us where we're at, and I'm confident that's higher than where we are now.