Not at AFL standard
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- Joffa Burns
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Not at AFL standard
Right now we have too many guys who are not AFL standard.
I like Minichington and Sinclair, both are clearly a cut above VFL but are not consistent or penetrating at AFL level.
I hope they can make it.
DMac and Wright are quick and hard but both are ordinary by foot.
Big improvement opportunity, but not ready yet.
I like Zac Jones but do we want to give up a first rounder for another quick hard guy with ordinary foot skills.
Another struggling is HR Huff & Puff (you oldies should remember), he seems to be the quintessential front runner.
You can't have 30 guns on the list but some of these guys short comings can be covered if we add some class and foot skills to the side.
I like Minichington and Sinclair, both are clearly a cut above VFL but are not consistent or penetrating at AFL level.
I hope they can make it.
DMac and Wright are quick and hard but both are ordinary by foot.
Big improvement opportunity, but not ready yet.
I like Zac Jones but do we want to give up a first rounder for another quick hard guy with ordinary foot skills.
Another struggling is HR Huff & Puff (you oldies should remember), he seems to be the quintessential front runner.
You can't have 30 guns on the list but some of these guys short comings can be covered if we add some class and foot skills to the side.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
sinclair will, as long as he works hard, he's a footballer. Minch is a strange one, can be brilliant at times but is mostly not so. Dmac's disposal is actually pretty good, he's just nervous at senior level, needs some games. Wright what you see is what you get.
Who the f is Huff and Puff!? How old are we talkin here? Mav??? Angry man?? If so then I agree. Seems out of sorts. He and Bruce got into the leadership group a little easily me thinks
Who the f is Huff and Puff!? How old are we talkin here? Mav??? Angry man?? If so then I agree. Seems out of sorts. He and Bruce got into the leadership group a little easily me thinks
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Re: Not at AFL standard
I imagine it's Mav.Joffa Burns wrote:Right now we have too many guys who are not AFL standard.
I like Minichington and Sinclair, both are clearly a cut above VFL but are not consistent or penetrating at AFL level.
I hope they can make it.
DMac and Wright are quick and hard but both are ordinary by foot.
Big improvement opportunity, but not ready yet.
I like Zac Jones but do we want to give up a first rounder for another quick hard guy with ordinary foot skills.
Another struggling is HR Huff & Puff (you oldies should remember), he seems to be the quintessential front runner.
You can't have 30 guns on the list but some of these guys short comings can be covered if we add some class and foot skills to the side.
And I remember HR Puff 'n' Stuff...little Jimmy and his magic flute, Witchie-Poo, and her 2 little minions, can't remember their names
Mav is still getting an average of 16 disposals a game, but his influence seems to have dropped off compared to last year.
Is he asked to play a slightly different role, as a support?
I only notice him when he tries valiantly to launch at an opponent, only to have them slip away.
Just me, am I biased, or is that really happening?
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Desperate but loose tackles that leave the tackler on the ground as his opponent bolts offWellardSaint wrote:I imagine it's Mav.Joffa Burns wrote:Right now we have too many guys who are not AFL standard.
I like Minichington and Sinclair, both are clearly a cut above VFL but are not consistent or penetrating at AFL level.
I hope they can make it.
DMac and Wright are quick and hard but both are ordinary by foot.
Big improvement opportunity, but not ready yet.
I like Zac Jones but do we want to give up a first rounder for another quick hard guy with ordinary foot skills.
Another struggling is HR Huff & Puff (you oldies should remember), he seems to be the quintessential front runner.
You can't have 30 guns on the list but some of these guys short comings can be covered if we add some class and foot skills to the side.
And I remember HR Puff 'n' Stuff...little Jimmy and his magic flute, Witchie-Poo, and her 2 little minions, can't remember their names
Mav is still getting an average of 16 disposals a game, but his influence seems to have dropped off compared to last year.
Is he asked to play a slightly different role, as a support?
I only notice him when he tries valiantly to launch at an opponent, only to have them slip away.
Just me, am I biased, or is that really happening?
seem to me a sign of fatigue and lack of commitment. We've seen a lot of it in the past
two weeks, not just from Mav.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
have to disagree here.Waltzing St Kilda wrote:Desperate but loose tackles that leave the tackler on the ground as his opponent bolts offWellardSaint wrote:I imagine it's Mav.Joffa Burns wrote:Right now we have too many guys who are not AFL standard.
I like Minichington and Sinclair, both are clearly a cut above VFL but are not consistent or penetrating at AFL level.
I hope they can make it.
DMac and Wright are quick and hard but both are ordinary by foot.
Big improvement opportunity, but not ready yet.
I like Zac Jones but do we want to give up a first rounder for another quick hard guy with ordinary foot skills.
Another struggling is HR Huff & Puff (you oldies should remember), he seems to be the quintessential front runner.
You can't have 30 guns on the list but some of these guys short comings can be covered if we add some class and foot skills to the side.
And I remember HR Puff 'n' Stuff...little Jimmy and his magic flute, Witchie-Poo, and her 2 little minions, can't remember their names
Mav is still getting an average of 16 disposals a game, but his influence seems to have dropped off compared to last year.
Is he asked to play a slightly different role, as a support?
I only notice him when he tries valiantly to launch at an opponent, only to have them slip away.
Just me, am I biased, or is that really happening?
seem to me a sign of fatigue and lack of commitment. We've seen a lot of it in the past
two weeks, not just from Mav.
I think he has a lot of commitment, but it could be a combination of being far too musclebound
and poor timing- not reading the play properly, being caught out.
Something has to be done, as he is a leader.
He only got 3 tackles, 8 kicks and 7 handballs- and I think that's a very poor return for a "defensive forward".
Against Crows, I have a fear that he will get similar poor numbers, as he has been down in all our losses.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
It was actually HR Pufnstuf
Kids show in the 70,s squarely aimed at the Hooch smokers
HR was the slang for Hand Rolled ...the Pufnstuff need no explanation.
Anyway here's the song.. says it all really
H.R. Pufnstuf, who’s your friend when things get rough?
H.R. Pufnstuf, can’t do a little, ’cause you can’t do enough
Kids show in the 70,s squarely aimed at the Hooch smokers
HR was the slang for Hand Rolled ...the Pufnstuff need no explanation.
Anyway here's the song.. says it all really
H.R. Pufnstuf, who’s your friend when things get rough?
H.R. Pufnstuf, can’t do a little, ’cause you can’t do enough
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
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Re: Not at AFL standard
I disagree about Sinclair and Minchington.
Both are very good footballers. They have all the tools: decent speed, agility, excellent readers of the play, excellent crumbers, excellent foot skills, very good goal sense. Minchington in particular always sticks his tackles too.
Both are an inch or two and a couple of kilos on the small side. Neither is formidable in the air.
But both will make it. In recent weeks we've seen a dire need for all of the positives I've mentioned above. These two guys can hurt the opposition from relatively few touches of the footy. Give them time and games and they will keep that capacity to hurt the opposition as well as get 20-25 touches a week. They have the skill set for versatility. These two will be better next season, really good in 2019 and beasts in 2020. I'm biased because I like both but I don't think I'm exaggerating too much what they can do well and what those skills will become with experience.
Both are very good footballers. They have all the tools: decent speed, agility, excellent readers of the play, excellent crumbers, excellent foot skills, very good goal sense. Minchington in particular always sticks his tackles too.
Both are an inch or two and a couple of kilos on the small side. Neither is formidable in the air.
But both will make it. In recent weeks we've seen a dire need for all of the positives I've mentioned above. These two guys can hurt the opposition from relatively few touches of the footy. Give them time and games and they will keep that capacity to hurt the opposition as well as get 20-25 touches a week. They have the skill set for versatility. These two will be better next season, really good in 2019 and beasts in 2020. I'm biased because I like both but I don't think I'm exaggerating too much what they can do well and what those skills will become with experience.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
You're wrong on Sinclair. He was excellent in his first 3 games this year, just ok the last two weeks. Doesn't mean he isn't up to AFL standard, in fact I think he can be a very good player for us. He has made us better since coming in.
Minchington has had a lot of time and chances. His inconsistency hurts us - he's basically the trademark "gap between best and worst too big" player. I think you're right on him - a fantastic VFL player but not AFL standard.
Minchington has had a lot of time and chances. His inconsistency hurts us - he's basically the trademark "gap between best and worst too big" player. I think you're right on him - a fantastic VFL player but not AFL standard.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Here's my take on some of the players discussed here and on other threads.
Minchington. In my time watching AFL, I've seen a lot of players come and go who play forward of the back six and who (a) are around 185 cm tall or less; (b) are not in the business of tagging or winning clearances; (c) average around 10 possessions per game; (d) kick less than 1 goal per game on average; (e) lay a few tackles but are otherwise mostly invisible. I just don't rate them. I do rate first class goal sneaks like Milne, Adam Schneider, Eddie Betts, Toby Greene, etc. But Minchington hasn't ever given the impression of being one of these. Can he play midfield? If so, give him a go and see if he can get at least 15 possessions a game like Mav. Otherwise, forget about him.
Wright Ditto.
Lonie Ditto.
Weller As I have posted before, I reckon he's been playing hurt for a few games now. He just doesn't look right, and I don't think it's because he's muscle-bound: he just can't seem to run as hard and as often as he did in the past. At his best, he's a cut above the three already mentioned: he can do far more around the ground than them, and he can take a contested mark. He's far more worth persevering with IMO than the previous three.
Sinclair He's got terrific skills and is a potential full-time midfielder IMO. Definitely a keeper.
DMac Another player with a bit more class and a lot of pace. He had a pretty good game on the weekend. Another keeper.
Savage I reckon he'll keep floating around the fringes of the first team until the club loses patience. It's hard to see that he has a great deal more improvement in him. But, when Joey goes, there is potentially a long-term spot for him in the backline. If I were running the club, I'd be looking to keep him on past the end of this season, if he wants to stay.
Minchington. In my time watching AFL, I've seen a lot of players come and go who play forward of the back six and who (a) are around 185 cm tall or less; (b) are not in the business of tagging or winning clearances; (c) average around 10 possessions per game; (d) kick less than 1 goal per game on average; (e) lay a few tackles but are otherwise mostly invisible. I just don't rate them. I do rate first class goal sneaks like Milne, Adam Schneider, Eddie Betts, Toby Greene, etc. But Minchington hasn't ever given the impression of being one of these. Can he play midfield? If so, give him a go and see if he can get at least 15 possessions a game like Mav. Otherwise, forget about him.
Wright Ditto.
Lonie Ditto.
Weller As I have posted before, I reckon he's been playing hurt for a few games now. He just doesn't look right, and I don't think it's because he's muscle-bound: he just can't seem to run as hard and as often as he did in the past. At his best, he's a cut above the three already mentioned: he can do far more around the ground than them, and he can take a contested mark. He's far more worth persevering with IMO than the previous three.
Sinclair He's got terrific skills and is a potential full-time midfielder IMO. Definitely a keeper.
DMac Another player with a bit more class and a lot of pace. He had a pretty good game on the weekend. Another keeper.
Savage I reckon he'll keep floating around the fringes of the first team until the club loses patience. It's hard to see that he has a great deal more improvement in him. But, when Joey goes, there is potentially a long-term spot for him in the backline. If I were running the club, I'd be looking to keep him on past the end of this season, if he wants to stay.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
well that's pretty in sync with my own thoughts on those players mr baba. Not sure on DMac though. Have him lumped with the first three.Lonie the bets of them, but simply to easily brushed aside.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Excellent analysis I think you are spot on every point.meher baba wrote:Here's my take on some of the players discussed here and on other threads.
Minchington. In my time watching AFL, I've seen a lot of players come and go who play forward of the back six and who (a) are around 185 cm tall or less; (b) are not in the business of tagging or winning clearances; (c) average around 10 possessions per game; (d) kick less than 1 goal per game on average; (e) lay a few tackles but are otherwise mostly invisible. I just don't rate them. I do rate first class goal sneaks like Milne, Adam Schneider, Eddie Betts, Toby Greene, etc. But Minchington hasn't ever given the impression of being one of these. Can he play midfield? If so, give him a go and see if he can get at least 15 possessions a game like Mav. Otherwise, forget about him.
Wright Ditto.
Lonie Ditto.
Weller As I have posted before, I reckon he's been playing hurt for a few games now. He just doesn't look right, and I don't think it's because he's muscle-bound: he just can't seem to run as hard and as often as he did in the past. At his best, he's a cut above the three already mentioned: he can do far more around the ground than them, and he can take a contested mark. He's far more worth persevering with IMO than the previous three.
Sinclair He's got terrific skills and is a potential full-time midfielder IMO. Definitely a keeper.
DMac Another player with a bit more class and a lot of pace. He had a pretty good game on the weekend. Another keeper.
Savage I reckon he'll keep floating around the fringes of the first team until the club loses patience. It's hard to see that he has a great deal more improvement in him. But, when Joey goes, there is potentially a long-term spot for him in the backline. If I were running the club, I'd be looking to keep him on past the end of this season, if he wants to stay.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Minchington is contracted till end 2018.
He only plays 2-3 games and then drops back to Zebs.
Not sure why he can't get to the ball, and only gets a handful of disposals.
It might be poor delivery into the forward line...
But I think his lack of consistency means he will struggle to play another 3-4 games this year as well as next.
He may well be delisted end of 2018,
but for his sake, I do hope he can step up and be valuable and cement his place.
He only plays 2-3 games and then drops back to Zebs.
Not sure why he can't get to the ball, and only gets a handful of disposals.
It might be poor delivery into the forward line...
But I think his lack of consistency means he will struggle to play another 3-4 games this year as well as next.
He may well be delisted end of 2018,
but for his sake, I do hope he can step up and be valuable and cement his place.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
I might just add to my previously-posted analysis and say that I think that - out of Minchington, Lonie and Wright - I think that Lonie has consistently demonstrated the greatest potential to make a go of it playing in the midfield. He is a bit of a ball magnet at VFL level who just doesn't seem to quite have the reflexes and strength to achieve this consistently at the AFL level, but there is still a chance he can improve these things. I think he's borderline worth keeping past the end of the year, whereas I reckon that - short of a sudden jump in performance - Wright and Minchington could well be let go/traded.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Hard to disagree with your comments, MB. Lonie is potentially the best of the bunch, if he can continue building some strength. His finish to the season last year drew some inquiries from other clubs, so in that sense, he may end up being trade bait. That said, I believe we're actually in need of that gun small forward, such as Betts, Garlett, Motlop, Milne etc. Gresh and Sinclair are needed in the middle, going forward. Lonie could be that player, but he'd need to take a big step up from here.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Lonie has a bit of the pest factor about him like Ballantyne from Freo.
I dont mind him, I think he might make a player in a couple of years time.
His obvious issues are around size and strength.
Daniel is also very small but has a skill set that is far and away superior to Lonie such as his lateral movement which is elite and his short disposal by hand and foot is very good.
For the life of me I can't see that Sinclair will make it though I hope to be proven wrong.
He is a very nice player who obviously works very hard as he is a good endurance runner with neat skills.
I just dont see anythin g that stands out like pace, silky skills, size, hardness just nothing out of the ordinary.
I dont mind him, I think he might make a player in a couple of years time.
His obvious issues are around size and strength.
Daniel is also very small but has a skill set that is far and away superior to Lonie such as his lateral movement which is elite and his short disposal by hand and foot is very good.
For the life of me I can't see that Sinclair will make it though I hope to be proven wrong.
He is a very nice player who obviously works very hard as he is a good endurance runner with neat skills.
I just dont see anythin g that stands out like pace, silky skills, size, hardness just nothing out of the ordinary.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Skill wise Sinclair is better than most at St Kilda.Joffa Burns wrote:
For the life of me I can't see that Sinclair will make it though I hope to be proven wrong.
He is a very nice player who obviously works very hard as he is a good endurance runner with neat skills.
I just dont see anything that stands out like pace, silky skills, size, hardness just nothing out of the ordinary.
JUDGGEMENT
He is also a good ball user not just due to his disposal skill, but because he thinks about where best to dispose of the ball. ie against the Swans he initially when to handball to Billings, but then realised that Billings had an opponent bearing down and he switched to handball to a team mate in the clear. to many of his team mates just keep handballing to the closest team mate, rather than the best positioned one.
Sinclair to me is a thinker, a pure footballer. And that is why I believe that he will make it. He has poise in how he plays. Good players have that quality.
Early on he was not working hard enough and particularly defensively. But he has rectified that.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
I think that Lonie playing in the midfield with Sandi at present will be beneficial to round out his skills and development including improving his decision making under pressure.
I think that he still needs another pre-season or two to build up his strength a bit as he does get ragdolled a bit too often.
I think that he still needs another pre-season or two to build up his strength a bit as he does get ragdolled a bit too often.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Sinclair reminds me of Robbie Gray - minus the ability.
Although in all seriousness, I think he's pretty handy. He's the one that see as having the most upside and potential to make it.
Although in all seriousness, I think he's pretty handy. He's the one that see as having the most upside and potential to make it.
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Re: Not at AFL standard
I thought the only thing Robbie Gray had going for him was ability?Johnny Member wrote:Sinclair reminds me of Robbie Gray - minus the ability.
Although in all seriousness, I think he's pretty handy. He's the one that see as having the most upside and potential to make it.
But I agree about Sinclair having a lot of upside
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Sinclair, Savage, Lonie, Montagna and Holmes are all on very thin ice. Probably gone.
Dunstan ought to be traded but has no trade value probably.
O'Kearney, Coughlan and Marshall to be upgraded.
Dunstan ought to be traded but has no trade value probably.
O'Kearney, Coughlan and Marshall to be upgraded.
Re: Not at AFL standard
Guys,
Have we ever played a game as a deep small forward, and understand the difference to playing in the midfield.
1/ you have less room to get a kick i50
2/ you have a defender riding shot gun
3/ you get limited chances, most entries centre around Key Talls
4/ you generally rely on quality and speed of entry
In the midfield you have far more room to spread, you can win your own footy more, you can push behind the footy, you can be led to the footy by your opponent.
You can play poorly as a mid and average 20
You can be an effective small forward and average 12
What you do need to do is make the most of your touches.
On being small
Has no correlation with ability. If you're good enough, you're big enough!
Tony Libba 165
Caleb Daniel 168
Brent Harvey 170
Eddie Betts 171
Shane Crawford 175
Leigh Montagna 178
Brad Gotch 167
Brett Bowey 168
Adam Schneider 176
Stephen Milne 177
John Platten 173
Marc Murphy 178
Darcy Parish 178
StK
Darren Minchington 182
Nathan Lonie 174
Jack Sinclair 180
Ben Long 181
Nathan Wright 187
Mav Weller 183 (too heavy!)
Jack Billings 184
Size only matters to loose women
Have we ever played a game as a deep small forward, and understand the difference to playing in the midfield.
1/ you have less room to get a kick i50
2/ you have a defender riding shot gun
3/ you get limited chances, most entries centre around Key Talls
4/ you generally rely on quality and speed of entry
In the midfield you have far more room to spread, you can win your own footy more, you can push behind the footy, you can be led to the footy by your opponent.
You can play poorly as a mid and average 20
You can be an effective small forward and average 12
What you do need to do is make the most of your touches.
On being small
Has no correlation with ability. If you're good enough, you're big enough!
Tony Libba 165
Caleb Daniel 168
Brent Harvey 170
Eddie Betts 171
Shane Crawford 175
Leigh Montagna 178
Brad Gotch 167
Brett Bowey 168
Adam Schneider 176
Stephen Milne 177
John Platten 173
Marc Murphy 178
Darcy Parish 178
StK
Darren Minchington 182
Nathan Lonie 174
Jack Sinclair 180
Ben Long 181
Nathan Wright 187
Mav Weller 183 (too heavy!)
Jack Billings 184
Size only matters to loose women
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Too heavy, too fat, you really have issues with players weight Marti, don't you!!!!!
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Well, running is pretty important in a game of footy, don't ya think?
Heavy people, tend to not have great tanks... it's a physiological think... bigger muscles use more ATP and deplete glycogen stores quicker, then burn o2 faster. They can (if predominantly fast twitch) give more power.
Fat people, hmm generally not great aerobic athletes.
It's great to have you reading my posts again. Should I anticipate replies, before I even press send?
Heavy people, tend to not have great tanks... it's a physiological think... bigger muscles use more ATP and deplete glycogen stores quicker, then burn o2 faster. They can (if predominantly fast twitch) give more power.
Fat people, hmm generally not great aerobic athletes.
It's great to have you reading my posts again. Should I anticipate replies, before I even press send?
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Re: Not at AFL standard
Not always Marto, just sometimes, but I will agree on the odd post, so don't be too disappointed!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
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We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving