Am I the only one that doesn't rate the dogs?

[SAAD]

The week off after the last round helped them big time. They peaked at the right time.

[Selhurst Saint]

I don't think of the Dogs as being scary good. They are good but I don't feel they are miles in front of us. They are proof that if all the planets align at the right time anything is possible.

My fear is that GWS will continue to develop and be near unbeatable over the next 5 years. They have stockpiles of under utilised talent that will replace ageing players or be traded away to gain strong draft positions.

[longtimesaint]

I don't think of the Dogs as being scary good. They are good but I don't feel they are miles in front of us. They are proof that if all the planets align at the right time anything is possible.

My fear is that GWS will continue to develop and be near unbeatable over the next 5 years. They have stockpiles of under utilised talent that will replace ageing players or be traded away to gain strong draft positions.

The problem with GWS is that I don't think the AFL really thought through what the initial draft picks would mean.
The have such a stockpile of top end talent that the advantages are self perpetuating.
They can afford to lose top players each year as they get top end draft picks for them and also have the academy players as a free hit. They can keep sifting the early draft picks and keeping the very best.
I can't see an end to this process!

[stevie]

Lol i still have seen zero pictures or vid of the GF or any of its aftermath and still have no idea who won the NS nor do i GAF! A new record of avoidance for me woohoo!

[lewdogs]

The thing about the Dogs is they have great depth. Players such as Suckling, Jong and Stevens were all left out of the side, despite them having some pretty big injuries (Murphy, Wallis). That is excellent depth - all three of those guys woud make our 22 easily I think. Conversely, the Swans had a number of passengers - they were kind of similar to our 09/10 teams, great top end but crap depth. As shown by the fact that Xav Richards didn't even get picked up after playing the grand final.

Thankfully, I think we are building similarly impressive depth. Not as good as the Dogs' yet though - when players such as Dunstan are having to fight for their spots (which he should be next year) we will be catching them.

I expect the Dogs to be very good next year. Young side, premiers, brimming with confidence. They'll be good.

[BigMart]

They won the VFL flag to highlight the depth they have!

They've won it twice in a few years, showing that they take the seconds seriously as far as development goes... As did Geelong. Paid dividends...

We pay lip service and have not prioritised winning the VFL as a tool of gaining finals experience and developing a winning culture.

Should have won three VFL flags this decade,

[Zed]

I don't reckon anyone rated Adelaide after their 97 GF - yet they went back to back.

Winners are grinners and right now they are right in the mix to win it again.

If we win a flag and oppo supporters don't rate us I would laugh my head off at them. I want that problem.

[SaintPav]

The point is that you need luck to win a flag.

Everything fell the Dogs way during the finals but their supporters would argue during the year they had plenty of bad luck which is true.

They are not invincible and hopefully either are GWS.

[magnifisaint]

Never rated the Bulldogs until they won the premiership. Now they are the best team in the comp.
It doesn't matter what I think.

[longtimesaint]

Never rated the Bulldogs until they won the premiership. Now they are the best team in the comp.
It doesn't matter what I think.

I don't think their list is better than ours they were on a roll in the finals which can happen.
If everyone starts to believe you can become unstoppable.
The so called experts will rate them above us and the likes of David King still rate Melbourne ahead of us.
That could give us the incentive to extend our winning run against them.

[asiu]

Winners are grinners and right now they are right in the mix to win it again. If we win a flag and oppo supporters don't rate us I would laugh my head off at them. I want that problem.

its my new year resolution to help shoulder that problem with U zed

the power of two desiring such a problem
... humankind will know no greater sacrifice.

[Freebird]

We'll never have the run with the umps like the bulldogs get.

One thing I have learned is if the umps don't want you to win it's very hard

[saynta]

We'll never have the run with the umps like the bulldogs get.

One thing I have learned is if the umps don't want you to win it's very hard

Amen to that brother.

[perfectionist]

... but the wheel turned and turned hard when they needed lady luck the most.

Yep, imagine if in 2009, Paul Chapman had torn his hammy rather than "tweeked" it in the first quarter or if Nick hadn't injured himself at training or if it hadn't rained, or in 2010 that "bounce" had gone the other way.

[markp]

My fear is that GWS will continue to develop and be near unbeatable over the next 5 years. They have stockpiles of under utilised talent that will replace ageing players or be traded away to gain strong draft positions.

It will happen, and once our window has closed again they'll change the rules so that it can't happen again.

[Johnny Member]

They're a good side. Very good.

Not the best in the comp though.

Without the bye, they'd not have been advanced past the first week if the finals.

The cards fell their way last year, and they were good enough to take advantage of it.

Kudos.

[citywest]

I read these threads here and at BF about them going back to back and how they're scary good and I don't get it.

They're a decent team absolutely. Can beat anyone of their day but by the same token they're very beatable too.

IIRC they finished what? 6th in the home and away season? IMO that's more or less where they're at... among the better teams.

Come September and credit where credit is due they turned it on and played their best footy of the season though in my opinion they got a lot of help final 2 games.

How big are ppl on them?

I'm not sure if your post is sour grapes or just pure delusion. Probably a bit of both I would have thought. St Kilda will have its day soon. Maybe 2017 could be our year but more than likely it will be either 2019 or 2020. Happy New Year skeptic!!!!

[saintsRrising]

While the dogs did have everything almost go right for them at the end of the season they had a huge imjury run during the year that would have crippled most teams.

List wise given a reasonable injury run they will on paper be a better team in 2017.


Having said that at present I think that the top 4 is wide open apart from GWS who is the only team I see as A Top 4 lock. The 8 I see in 2017 as being the hardest year ever to make.

If any team gets on a role then the flag is wide ooen to many. Have a form slump though and you then will not make the 8....Dogs, saints, dees, hawks etc included.

GWS will be the team to beat.

[skeptic]

I read these threads here and at BF about them going back to back and how they're scary good and I don't get it.

They're a decent team absolutely. Can beat anyone of their day but by the same token they're very beatable too.

IIRC they finished what? 6th in the home and away season? IMO that's more or less where they're at... among the better teams.

Come September and credit where credit is due they turned it on and played their best footy of the season though in my opinion they got a lot of help final 2 games.

How big are ppl on them?

I'm not sure if your post is sour grapes or just pure delusion. Probably a bit of both I would have thought. St Kilda will have its day soon. Maybe 2017 could be our year but more than likely it will be either 2019 or 2020. Happy New Year skeptic!!!!

So you think that they're an unstoppable force... heavy favourites for the flag.

Interesting

[bigcarl]

I rate the Bulldogs quite highly. Definitely one of the top four teams of last year and one of the top four chances this season.

I rate GWS and the Swans higher, though, both of 2016 and for the coming season. They were stiffed to a degree in the 2016 finals by umpires who got on the feelgood Doggies bandwagon.

What was it again in those two finals?

A 2-1 ratio of free kicks in favour of the Dogs?

Maybe that's an exaggeration, but you cannot ignore the fact that the umps got on board.

A final word on the Dogs. We beat them in our last meeting, fair and square. Yes, they had a couple of unfortunate injuries but that is footy.

We're not far off them and will close the gap quicker this season. I know for a fact that their supporters see St Kilda as a threat.

I see the Swans and GWS as a greater threat. Both touched us up on our home ground in 2016.

[Jacks Back]

I rate the Bulldogs quite highly. Definitely one of the top four teams of last year and one of the top four chances this season.

I rate GWS and the Swans higher, though, both of 2016 and for the coming season. They were stiffed to a degree in the 2016 finals by umpires who got on the feelgood Doggies bandwagon.

What was it again in those two finals?

A 2-1 ratio of free kicks in favour of the Dogs?

Maybe that's an exaggeration, but you cannot ignore the fact that the umps got on board.

A final word on the Dogs. We beat them in our last meeting, fair and square. Yes, they had a couple of unfortunate injuries but that is footy.

We're not far off them and will close the gap quicker this season. I know for a fact that their supporters see St Kilda as a threat.

I see the Swans and GWS as a greater threat. Both touched us up on our home ground in 2016.

The free kick count with the Bulldogs the away named team in all 4 weeks of the finals:
Grannie v Syd 8-20
Prelim v GWS 13-23
Semi v Haw 14-19
Elim v WC 13-17

So the final two games (Grannie & Prelim) was an average 2-1 ratio frees (43:21). Not bad work if you can get it.

[bigcarl]

Thanks for that research Jacks Back.

The Dogs clearly had an armchair ride, at least in the prelim and grannie, against teams that had been superior all season.

They get that. We get players' family members dying during GF week; balls bouncing at ludicrous angles; goals against that hit the post; umpire vendettas against individual players, etc, etc, etc.

But these things tend to even out over time. We are due some luck and next time we will get it. I'm calling that now.

[Bluthy]

Current flag holders winning despite bad injuries to important players
AFL.com rank midfield no. 2
AFL.com rank backline no. 2
AFL.com rank forward line no. 3
No 1 contested ball team which wins you finals
Young list that should keep getting better and have shown they are the best recruiters in he league
Brilliant motivational coach with a shut-down, all-over-the ground net system that is incredibly hard to score against and holds up in finals especially big finals

Yeah, I kind of rate them. Although I think they benefited hugely from the week off before finals that left the prelim teams that only played one game in a month badly underdone.

[Freebird]

Thanks for that research Jacks Back.

The Dogs clearly had an armchair ride, at least in the prelim and grannie, against teams that had been superior all season.

They get that. We get players' family members dying during GF week; balls bouncing at ludicrous angles; goals against that hit the post; umpire vendettas against individual players, etc, etc, etc.

But these things tend to even out over time. We are due some luck and next time we will get it. I'm calling that now.

They do not even out over time...Footscray along with some other clubs (eg. Hawthorn) always have a good run with the umps.

Even Tony Shaw once said back in the early 90s when he was coach of Collingwood that we know the umps will be for Footscray and it was common knowledge amongst the coaches.

Why is this?
If we knew the answer and could rectify the problem it would help more than any other progressive advantage

[Moods]

I rate them only behind GWS. They should be even better this year and they'll need to be. Caught a lot of teams in the finals on the hop - good luck to them. They play an incredibly swarming high intensity game which is hard to keep up for 26 weeks. I like the players that are coming into the team bar Cloke. Murphy, Suckling, Wallace, Crameri should really improve them. If Boyd has arrived and has his confidence up and Redpath returns mid year they will be a force. Hamling is no loss despite playing reasonably in the finals. Hopefully they've had their go and will return to the middle rung - but I doubt it. Top 4 for mine, easily.