Shut the f*&k up about luck

[Bluthy]

I'm sick of hearing about how unlucky we are. Oh we never get any luck. The bounce of the ball. The ball hit the post. The umps hate us. We would have won if they had extra time. We lost this player then and they got this player in father and son blah blah. I've done my share of ruminating on how painfully close we got but that is 6 years ago now. Its time to move into the final grief stage - acceptance. What happened, happened. We just weren't quite good enough. Anything else is just torturing yourself meaninglessly and living in the past.

You make your own luck. If the sporting Gods hate us, take them out the equation. Become a good enough team that we win by 4 to 5 goals instead of trying to scrape in by one point. Failure is feedback (thank Ross)

Umps hate us? Not 100% sure of that. But lets work on it in a cold blooded analytical way. Lets not have idiots like Schneider sarcastically clapping them. Train the playes in getting positive umpire bias.Get a pyscholgoist in to tell us how we could do that. Think about what would put them on our side - probably realising they make mistakes (they are actually human) and the game itself has a lot of blurry areas in the laws. Don't over react in the moment (can be taught) and treat them with respect. Kosi said that our beloved Lenny used to pay out on them like no ones business. Maybe that was some of our problem.

That disallowed goal that I think took dogs lead back to only 9 points could have been their "hit the post" moment. But they didn't care about that piece of bad luck. They girded their loins (how do you gird your loins? Sounds painful) and said "We're not going to be your plaything today footy Gods". Guys like Picken said "I don't care about the tragic history of our club or how good Swans are or how much of a journeyman everyone says I am. Today I am winning this game. Its not open for debate. I'm going to make it happen. I want it, need it, more than air itself"

Under Lyons low scoring system we were always playing with fire. Its not a coincidence we got burned. Lets be good enough were the randomness of the bounce of a ball doesn't decide our moment of glory or not. Every year from now on is an opportunity to win the ultimate glory. And we have hundreds of years in front of us to make that happen as many times as we can. So many opportunities - its joyous! Be ambitious. Be bold. REalise this whole world is just a meaningless, crazy dream anyway. So dream large. Who cares if nothing happens. We haven't gone backwards. Sport matters because it doesn't matter.

I saw a great slogan on the back of a horse float of all things the other day:

Someone said to me you shouldn't bite off more than you can chew.
But I'd rather choke on greatness
Than chew on mediocrity

[sunsaint]

You're on a hiding to nothing Bluthy
people would prefer to wallow in excuses and embrace defeat

umpires are corrupt
afl is corrupt
luck robbed us
we dont have the resources
we never get father son
did I miss any?

If the players thought like most of our supporters I doubt they would ever take the field

[saint-stu]

Great point about the umpire bias. Rather than complaining about it, let's teach the players to tackle without giving away frees. Also even how to draw frees like so many others do anyway (is that cheating?). And for god's sake, don't make any dumb insults to the umpires.

[dragit]

chew on me bluthy…

[barwon saint]

Finally someone making some sense I am sure most supporters agree.I have been a visitor on this site for years but only felt the need to post by listening to the small minded negative comments about the Dogs.Lets just be positive about our fantastic footy club that gives us so much joy!!

[SaintPav]

Fascist post

[perfectionist]

... don't make any dumb insults to the umpires.

You are correct there, although numerous footy fans would disagree. However, there is no doubt that the umpiring favoured Footscray on Saturday. Did the umps get together and say "How can we make the dogs win?" No. But I have never seen a worse collective display in GFs. There is always the odd boo-boo, like Adam Schneider in 2009. However, in this game there were 7 clear mistakes on my count and they all favoured the Dogs. The most egregious were the non 50 in the first quarter and the three "legs taken out" tackles. This wasn't a matter of interpretation or "line ball" decisions, but straight out errors. On the other hand, while the "touched" point for the Dogs was probably "touched" I think that, for a decision to be overturned, a clear change of path or bent back of fingers needs to be shown. I would have paid a goal.

[Bluthy]

Fascist post

I crush people who call me fascist.

[older saint]

Great opening post - winners don't need to make excuses.
The players blew it in 2009 through bad kicking 7-7 to 7-1 at half time should have been at least 10-4 . In those conditions game over. Did they mean to miss obviously not but that is where the game was lost. 2010 fantastic come back and coaching in throwing the board around at half time, however in all sports decisions made at the time didn't allow us to close the game out once we hit the lead. Bounce of the ball didn't help but in 1966 bounce of the ball allowed us to win a Premiership.

The club is building something towards another run at it, will be different to the decade of the 2000's as we don't have a one in a generation player in Roo, however perhaps the model is different as really the WB have Bont as the only true superstar and then some very , very good players who work their arses off for the team.

[Bluthy]

... don't make any dumb insults to the umpires.

You are correct there, although numerous footy fans would disagree. However, there is no doubt that the umpiring favoured Footscray on Saturday. Did the umps get together and say "How can we make the dogs win?" No. But I have never seen a worse collective display in GFs. There is always the odd boo-boo, like Adam Schneider in 2009. However, in this game there were 7 clear mistakes on my count and they all favoured the Dogs. The most egregious were the non 50 in the first quarter and the three "legs taken out" tackles. This wasn't a matter of interpretation or "line ball" decisions, but straight out errors. On the other hand, while the "touched" point for the Dogs was probably "touched" I think that, for a decision to be overturned, a clear change of path or bent back of fingers needs to be shown. I would have paid a goal.

I didn't think it was that bad but dogs did get the rub of the green. But that also reflects they were often the team making things happen in the finals. Clarkson whinging about how many tackles they did for no frees just showed they were second to the ball and were tackling from close in and not doing the run downs that earn you frees.

Umps tend to put away the whistle and will let stuff go in the big finals. I still don't really understand that slide rule - if there is a difference between "sliding" or getting in low. Very blurry area.

Umps probably can get a bit swayed by stuff - they are human.Lets make that work for us next time. Whenever the the umps are within earshot have the players casually mention its been 50 years since our last premiership and boy wouldn't everyone be happy if we won. Oh and you look lovely in yellow - really brings out your complexion.

[desertsaint]

the 'touched' goal was clearly punched before it had 100% crossed the line. was an easy decision for a video review. no doubt in it at all.

[White Winmar]

... don't make any dumb insults to the umpires.

You are correct there, although numerous footy fans would disagree. However, there is no doubt that the umpiring favoured Footscray on Saturday. Did the umps get together and say "How can we make the dogs win?" No. But I have never seen a worse collective display in GFs. There is always the odd boo-boo, like Adam Schneider in 2009. However, in this game there were 7 clear mistakes on my count and they all favoured the Dogs. The most egregious were the non 50 in the first quarter and the three "legs taken out" tackles. This wasn't a matter of interpretation or "line ball" decisions, but straight out errors. On the other hand, while the "touched" point for the Dogs was probably "touched" I think that, for a decision to be overturned, a clear change of path or bent back of fingers needs to be shown. I would have paid a goal.

I didn't think it was that bad but dogs did get the rub of the green. But that also reflects they were often the team making things happen in the finals. Clarkson whinging about how many tackles they did for no frees just showed they were second to the ball and were tackling from close in and not doing the run downs that earn you frees.

Umps tend to put away the whistle and will let stuff go in the big finals. I still don't really understand that slide rule - if there is a difference between "sliding" or getting in low. Very blurry area.

Umps probably can get a bit swayed by stuff - they are human.Lets make that work for us next time. Whenever the the umps are within earshot have the players casually mention its been 50 years since our last premiership and boy wouldn't everyone be happy if we won. Oh and you look lovely in yellow - really brings out your complexion.

And matches the streak down the middle of their backs.

[Bluthy]

The players blew it in 2009 through bad kicking 7-7 to 7-1 at half time should have been at least 10-4 . In those conditions game over. Did they mean to miss obviously not but that is where the game was lost.

Yeah and we had a guy like McQualter in the team who misses from 15m out open goal square. McQualter was a jobber - could do a basic job and thats about it. That's not luck. Thats a poor bottom six. Schneider was always erratic and its no surprise he misses under pressure. When he was on he was great but he did a lot of missing in his career.
If we end up with Nathan Wright and Geary in the our GF team you'll see the same thing. That won't be luck. That will be not weeding out players that are unable to use the ball properly in the white hot heat of finals footy.

[saintspremiers]

Bluthy you sound like a total idiot bagging Gears

[sunsaint]

... don't make any dumb insults to the umpires.

You are correct there, although numerous footy fans would disagree. However, there is no doubt that the umpiring favoured Footscray on Saturday. Did the umps get together and say "How can we make the dogs win?" No. But I have never seen a worse collective display in GFs. There is always the odd boo-boo, like Adam Schneider in 2009. However, in this game there were 7 clear mistakes on my count and they all favoured the Dogs. The most egregious were the non 50 in the first quarter and the three "legs taken out" tackles. This wasn't a matter of interpretation or "line ball" decisions, but straight out errors. On the other hand, while the "touched" point for the Dogs was probably "touched" I think that, for a decision to be overturned, a clear change of path or bent back of fingers needs to be shown. I would have paid a goal.

yeah but thats the point most people have a tendancy to align bias - you looked at the game form the point of view that umps favour footscray
Did buddy push in the back or was it a clean mark? (he missed the shot on goal) Was it a shoulder push or in the back?
or there was a another one where buddy clearly had control of ball and held it to a dogs player for a holding the ball free kick
Im not picking on Franklin but those to me were "iffys"
the tunneling non-decisions - I dont know. One of them was a shoulder to thigh the other the dogs player was down low early
its a hard game to officiate

[Scollop]

2010 fantastic come back and coaching .....

Fantastic coaches win premierships. Ross Lyon is one of the most over rated coaches going around. Ross Lyon is no Bevo. He didn't inherit a team that had just finished its 4th year out of the finals.

Before Bevo arrived at the Dogs they were 14th, and also 15th and 15th. That's 3 years with two bottom 4 finishes. When Rossy arrived at our club we had two top 4 finishes out of the last 3 years with prelims in 2 out of the 3.

I will relentlessly remind anyone who forgets because there were far too many voices in the media ( led by his mates like Walls and Roos who at the time spent a few years out of coaching) that brainwashed footy fans and Saints supporters that Lyon was a 'great' coach.

Sounds like Bluthy is taking over for Marto for a while...anyhow I also don't care about excuses or luck and if coach fails then how the hell does that make him great. Some people are still undecided, but I'm not. When Lyon's career ends you'll agree. You won't be saying his coaching was fantastic

[Bluthy]

Bluthy you sound like a total idiot bagging Gears

The line between idiocy and genius is razor thin

[Scollop]

Who is a better kick; Andrew Swallow or Jarryn Geary?

...right now...with what he has delivered as a player in 2016 I'd take Geary.

Does that mean that Geary is a better player overall?

Probably not but Swallow seems to have gone backwards.

Will Jarryn take his footy to another level and can he stay calm and have good effecieny
with his disposal going forward. I think yes

[spert]

2010 fantastic come back and coaching .....

Fantastic coaches win premierships. Ross Lyon is one of the most over rated coaches going around. Ross Lyon is no Bevo. He didn't inherit a team that had just finished its 4th year out of the finals.

Before Bevo arrived at the Dogs they were 14th, and also 15th and 15th. That's 3 years with two bottom 4 finishes. When Rossy arrived at our club we had two top 4 finishes out of the last 3 years with prelims in 2 out of the 3.

I will relentlessly remind anyone who forgets because there were far too many voices in the media ( led by his mates like Walls and Roos who at the time spent a few years out of coaching) that brainwashed footy fans and Saints supporters that Lyon was a 'great' coach.

Sounds like Bluthy is taking over for Marto for a while...anyhow I also don't care about excuses or luck and if coach fails then how the hell does that make him great. Some people are still undecided, but I'm not. When Lyon's career ends you'll agree. You won't be saying his coaching was fantastic

I would say players like Fyfe would be looking at what Richo is building and would see some exciting times ahead- compared to being in a team that was everything and now nothing with a coach who is not good enough to win a GF and hasn't got a clue how to develop young talent.

[White Winmar]

Bluthy you sound like a total idiot bagging Gears

The line between idiocy and genius is razor thin

Or a yawning, cavernous gulf.

[Johnny Member]

I think the OP is wrong, and misses the point about 'luck'.


Luck, fortune, karma, coincidence, curse, destiny, s*** happens - call it what you want, but it exists.

All those words really describe the fact that we don't control everything. We can't.

We can do everything right, and walk outside one day and get hit in the head with a solidified turd that has fallen 14000 feet from a plane, and die.

You can walk down the street and cross the road and a drug addict drives through a red light and kills you.

You can approach the bar at a pub at the precise moment a foxy chick does, look left and make eye contact, and the rest is history. Or you could look left and there's a drunken d**khead there, you make eye contact and he glasses you.

etc. etc.


s*** happens.


In all of the above circumstances, you can do plenty yourself to avoid or control the outcome - but ultimately there are many factors that you simply have no say in.

It's down to luck. Or whatever you want to call it.


There's is absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that the same applies to sport. No doubt at all. Luck, or whatever you want to call it - plays an enormous part in the outcome of sporting events. It just does. It's not a copout or an excuse - it's a fact.

The reason being - is that being your best, isn't enough. You need to be better than your opponent. And you just can't control that. The best team doesn't always win. The best team on the day does - but what makes them the best team on the day can be a number of things - the main being luck. Not always, but very, very often.

You don't want athletes taking that mindset into games or into seasons. But as intelligent observers of the situation - you know it's true.



Call it what you want, but when circumstances beyond your control go against you to the extent it cancels out your superiority over your opposition - you lose.


Champion horses get beaten all the time because of bad luck. Sometimes they make mistakes that lead to bad luck, other times it's just bad luck.

If the best horse draws barrier 18 in the Melbourne Cup, it won't win. It can, and no doubt the jockey tries to kid himself it won't matter. But it does matter. That horse suddenly not only has to do everything right to win - it also needs a shitload of horses to be below their best for it to win. It suddenly needs plenty of things beyond it's control to happen in order to win.

Put the top team into a GF - but don't give them a free kick for an entire half, give their opponent 2 goals from bad umpiring, take out their CHB before the game, and also give 3 of their best players injuries during the game - and they won't win. They can, and they'll kid themselves that it won't matter. But it does. And guess what? Not only does this mean that this team has been stiff, it also means that they're opponent has been fortunate.

Luck. Good fortune. Whatever you call it. It's a thing. In sport especially.

To suggest that it's not a critical element to the result of sporting events is folly.


It happens all the time. It doesn't detract from the winner's achievement one bit though in my opinion.


Irving gets injured in 2015 and the GSWs win. Bogut does his knee in 2016 and the Cavs win.

s*** happens, that make it far harder for teams and athletes to win.



Did Steven Bradbury win due to good fortune? Of course he did. He prepared well, did everything right, but unless he had some good fortune he simply wouldn't have won.



No matter how many great motivational quotes coaches and experts sprout, winning is not a right. It is not simply a case of wanting it more, or working harder. No matter how hard you work, no matter how well you do everything, no matter how good you are - you still have to beat someone else to win.

[The Fireman]

unlucky

[bigcarl]

Of course luck is important. We've been cursed, the Bulldogs have been kissed.

The good news is that it tends to level out over time, so next time we contend look out.

[Sainternist]

Well, considering we are merely spectators and have no control over the destiny of the players for our club, perhaps we can consider ourselves unlucky?

[samoht]

Of course luck is important. We've been cursed, the Bulldogs have been kissed.

The good news is that it tends to level out over time, so next time we contend look out.

re: kissed by good luck-
I don't see it quite that way. The Bulldogs had 3 certain ins on the sidelines --- Murphy, Wallis and Crameri. So 2-3 average footballers took their place.
They also had 1 less day or night to recover after their prelim. final win.

What about the "rub of the green" in the critical last quarter?
They had 2 decisions that went against them in the last quarter when the game was up for grabs. The dubious holding the ball (Boyd) - it was clearly not - that resulted
in a Swan goal and the goal that was reversed to a point - when it looked like a goal on the replay and was called a goal.

They just refused to let the odds - and bad luck - stand in their way.

The bulldogs had 18 more inside 50's - they were always trying to score and were playing positive football throughout, while the Swans kept defaulting to flooding/restricting.
When the umpiring decisions were going the Swans way in the last quarter, they didn't look like troubling the scoreboard - and it was the time the Bulldogs took it to another level.