Too much running?

[Johnny Member]

I do agree with Bluthy to a certain degree on some things though. I think it's extremely important to have great structures and systems in place. It's what kept the Hawks so strong for so long. They are so efficient going fwd it's ridiculous.

Weren't that efficient on Friday night when the Bulldogs were all over them.

They were in the first half when they winning the contests though.

[Moods]

Emphasis MUST be on learning a game plan and strategies until they can do it in their sleep a la Matrix.
Because if a team can execute well, and get value on inside 50's, then it makes the oppo's job so much harder.
While the other team is running their guts out, the skilled team can force a turnover, and just go coast to coast as the enemy is caught out of position
and has no energy to chase.

And what about Friday night? When Hawthorn were winning contests and pressuring the Dogs intensely, they were 5 goals up and unlucky not to be further in front. Then what happened? You guessed it - the Dogs started wining the contests and monstering Hawthorn with pressure and suddenly they're 40 points in front.


Strategies simply don't work without fierce pressure, intensity and hard running. It's the cornerstone of the whole caper.


Now we all know of course, that a team hasn't won a flag through pressure alone for about 15 years. But as per my earlier question - you can't possibly believe that the coaching panel aren't simultaneously implementing dozens of strategies also?

Seriously?

I reckon at the end of the day we're all in fierce agreement. No-one would dispute that without fierce pressure that any game plan is not worth the paper it's written down on. Pressure must be there to win big games. However what has happened in the past, particularly when we were coached by RL, is that we were all over teams but instead of getting bang for our buck we would go in at 1/4 time 2 goals up. I reckon in both our GF's in 09/10 lack of effective systems failed to allow us to capitalise on our dominance in 09, but it also kept us in the game in the drawn 2010 game.

This is not a criticism of Ross because the game plan and ability to tackle and pressure was incredible and changed the way footy was played. But once Kosi got injured half way through the year and fwd efficiency was terrible compared to how dominant we were that year. Conversely when Roo went down the following year our stifling tactics enabled us to stay in games and win games we had no right to. I recall beating the Bulldogs 5 goals to 4 or something ridiculous at Etihad on a Saturday night.

Hawks were unable to capitalise on their dominance for once Friday night and they paid for it. But history has shown that they are experts at capitalising on their dominance. Their fwds are very good without being superstars (Rioli aside) but they know exactly where and when to run.

[BigMart]

I thought Rioli 'the best 15ppg player in the AFL' had a ripping final series!!!

A superstar no doubt!!!

[Scollop]

There were some very dubiuos decisions at critical times in that match. What's clear from this finals series and from many games in H&A too, is that it's a game of inches and momentum swings.

The Dogs were the better team there's no doubt about that, but I challenge you to watch the 3rd quarter and have a look from the time that they overturned the goal that Gunston kicks to the time that the Dogs get about 3 goals clear. Not sure if the Hawks had ended up in front at 3 quarter time or if it was close that we would have had the same result, but what I do know is that the umpires had a huge influence during this period.

[Bluthy]

Emphasis MUST be on learning a game plan and strategies until they can do it in their sleep a la Matrix.
Because if a team can execute well, and get value on inside 50's, then it makes the oppo's job so much harder.
While the other team is running their guts out, the skilled team can force a turnover, and just go coast to coast as the enemy is caught out of position
and has no energy to chase.

I simply can't comprehend this logic.


Firstly, are you, like Bluthy, suggesting that we don't actually have any other strategies other than 'run hard and pressure'?

Do you believe, like Bluthy, that we employ 10 coaches to rock up to the club each day and come up with nothing other than 'run hard, tackle and pressure boys!'?

Give it a rest Johnny. Your over the top exaggeration of arguments is getting tedious. Here's a tip for ya - if your interactions on the internet are all about you winning arguments anyway you can to satisfy your ego, you're going to find it a frustrating experience. Maybe stop running around calling everyone's ideas s*** and guff and exaggerating them to insane strawman proportions so you come across as Mr Realistic Footy Knowledge. Actually talking about what you agree or don't agree with in a sensible manner might let you enjoy it more.

Thats the fun of this place. Its a journal for all our hopes and fear and crazy not-very-well thought out ideas cos we love footy a bit too much.

[Johnny Member]

Give it a rest Johnny. Your over the top exaggeration of arguments is getting tedious. Here's a tip for ya - if your interactions on the internet are all about you winning arguments anyway you can to satisfy your ego, you're going to find it a frustrating experience. Maybe stop running around calling everyone's ideas s*** and guff and exaggerating them to insane strawman proportions so you come across as Mr Realistic Footy Knowledge. Actually talking about what you agree or don't agree with in a sensible manner might let you enjoy it more.

Thats the fun of this place. Its a journal for all our hopes and fear and crazy not-very-well thought out ideas cos we love footy a bit too much.

I just did a quick search of your posts, and it's abundantly clear that you believe the coach and his assistants are fools, and that the best they can do is to come up with a simplistic 'high pressure' game plan and nothing else.

It's abundantly clear that you believe the coach has hijacked the club's direction and public '2018 Plan', and no one at the club has the nuts to pull him into line.

It's abundantly clear that you believe he is putting 'pressure above skill' and as a result, highly skilful players such as Lonie are being cast aside for unskilled list cloggers such as Wright.

It's also clear you believe "Richo's high pressure game plan" is causing the young players to get injured and is burning them out.



It only took me about 5 minutes to find specific quotes from you that supports the above.

So this isn't a strawman argument. It's based on actual quotes you've made. Specific statements.


The reason I respond, is because it's utter s***.

People have opinions, I get that. And I respect that - even though I don't always agree.

But yours aren't mere opinions - they're borderline slanderous suggestions of a rogue coach gone mad with power who has railroaded the club. It's ludicrous stuff.


All are based on false premises. There is no evidence whatsoever to support any of what you're sprouting.

And it's all based on this bizarre, almost personal premise:

"I hope there are some cool heads prepared to see just exactly where we are and if necessary tell Mr Super Coach Richo that he needs to be bold with the squad rotations. Its strikes me Richo has a lot of power now Pelchen is gone and Cox who had a cricket background is now footy director. Would someone stand up to Richo and say "hey stopping playing all the oldies dude - we need to focusing on the long-term?"


I mean seriously, what on earth are you basing that on?? Where's the evidence that this is what is happening at the club?



This is what the club told us they're doing, and as of mid this season, they're still all in agreeance that they're still doing it:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/a ... 5152a0df1b

[bobmurray]

The Australian won't let me read the article unless i subscribe, too bad really, you are making good points in this debate with the blowfly,JM.

[Johnny Member]

The Australian won't let me read the article unless i subscribe, too bad really, you are making good points in this debate with the blowfly,JM.

St Kilda coach Alan Richardson is certain the Saints have improved during his tenure and believes his players should be feeling pretty good about their footy.

As the Saints prepare to tackle the maturing Greater Western Sydney at Etihad Stadium tomorrow, they are closing in on the midway point of a five-year plan to be flag contenders by 2018. According to the blueprint handed to Richardson after former coach Scott Watters was sacked in 2013, the Saints should be back in the top four by 2018 and aim to win a premiership by 2020.

The Saints have shown steady improvement under Richardson, who took charge of a team in need of renovation and renewal. After winning four games in his first season as senior coach, St Kilda claimed six wins and a draw to finish 14th last year.

A strong defeat of Collingwood a fortnight ago, followed by an unlucky loss to Hawthorn in Launceston last week, shows how far the team has come, but Richardson said true judgment could only come at the end of this season.

“I don’t know whether you prove it until the season is run and done,” he said. “At this stage we have won one game of footy. We have had a competitive performance against the reigning premier. There is no doubt that is positive.

“But we still have a lot of work to do. We are under no illusions about that. I am really confident we are heading in the right direction but there is a lot of work ahead.”

Chief executive Matt Finnis and chief operating officer Ameet Bains are also working hard behind the scenes, reducing and spreading their total player payments more evenly. Finnis last year said improvements in this area would put them in an “enviable position” from which to launch a successful era.

When Finnis addressed the AFL Commission early in 2014, he stressed the club was determined to become a major player by 2018.

The presentation was based on the 2014 release of St Kilda’s strategic framework which emphasised the importance of reducing debt, a transformation of off-field culture, and two major on-field aims — to make the side a top-four club by 2018 and to finally add to their sole 1966 flag soon after.

Bains last year said St Kilda needed to address their payments to reflect their young and level list. “At the end of 2011, our top 10 players were taking up 62 per cent of the cap,” Bains said.

The Saints have reduced this to about 40 per cent, which allowed the club to recruit players from other clubs “at the right time” to fast-track success.

“What this does is allow us to really build aggressively over the next two to three years,” Bains said. “Whether we do that by prepayments, whether we take advantage of the AFL’s underspend banking system, it does give us a lot of scope to be quite aggressive.”

Bains said the Saints would continue to monitor free agency and contracted players from rival clubs with a view to luring them to the club.

“For us, given where we are at, we have a long-term approach to bringing in some of these players,” he said.

Over the past two seasons the club has benefited from recruiting mature players. Josh Bruce has been a revelation up forward, as has Maverick Weller on ball. Shane Savage from the Hawks has also been handy.

Jake Carlisle has to wait until next year given his suspension as a result of the Essendon doping scandal, but St Kilda should get some value later this year from Collingwood recruit Nathan Freeman.

The Saints are taking a cautious approach with the injury-prone Freeman, who will not play this week but will play for Sandringham next week.

Leigh Montagna, a fledgling player under Grant Thomas who grew into a star during the Ross Lyon era and is now a mentor, says Richardson has the club on track.

“I think we’re pleased that we’re playing the right way about our football,” he told Fox Footy’s AFL Tonight this week.

“We’re going about it the right way. We’re aggressive with our ball use. We’re trying to be aggressive with our defence and we’re giving ourselves a chance.

“I think in three of our four games we’ve played that way.

“For us it’s more about our process and the way we’re playing rather than necessarily our wins and losses at the end of the year. So as long as we keep improving, and play the way we want to play, a brand of football that’s going to take us to finals, that’s what we should be aiming for.”

Richardson, when appointed, said he liked the clarity of aim the document provided.

“I like the fact there is a document that represents our aspirations and that we are accountable for something, that our members, our fans, our stakeholders have the opportunity to understand that there is a plan, that there is a purpose behind the decisions that we make.”

The Saints’ opponent tomorrow, the Giants, are also on an upward trajectory and Richardson said it would provide another gauge as to St Kilda’s progress.

“We think we have improved. We won six and a half games of footy but we were inconsistent with our defence. We were still working on our offence,” he said. “We think we have improved in both facets of team offence and team defence, so we think we are better for it.

[Bluthy]

But yours aren't mere opinions - they're borderline slanderous suggestions of a rogue coach gone mad with power who has railroaded the club. It's ludicrous stuff.

PELCHEN: Your mission Captain Bluthy is to proceed up the Nepean Highway to Seaford. Pick up Coach Richo’s path at Linen House Centre, follow it and learn what you can along the way. When you find the Coach, infiltrate his team by whatever means available and terminate the Coach’s command.

BLUTHY: Terminate the Coach?

PELCHEN: He's out there operating without any decent tactics or complex game plan, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable coaching conduct. And he is still in the field commanding players to do nothing but tackle and run hard. And he forced me out even though I had a totally brilliant spreadsheet that would have filled the team with great kicking players!!!!! Terminate with extreme prejudice Bluthy!

[BLUTHY voice-over] I was going to the worst place in the world – Seaford - and I didn't even know it yet. Weeks away and hundreds of miles up a highway that snaked through the state like a main circuit cable plugged straight into Richo. It was no accident that I got to be the caretaker of Alan Richardson’s memory any more than being back in Seaford was an accident. There is no way to tell his story without telling my own. And if his story really is a confession, then so is mine

As I arrived at Linen House Centre, I could see \ what the madness of rogue Coach Richo had delivered. Injured players were everywhere - broken shoulders, concussion, shin soreness. Players could barely move from exhaustion from having to run so hard and do nothing but tackle and pressure. I knew I had to stop Richo before he destroyed the club. In front of the entrance to the club stood a crazed looking man who was building a whole series of huge straw man before knocking them down and screaming “I love the smell of straw in the morning!!”

BLUTHY: Could I, uh... talk to Coach Richo?

JOHNNY STRAWMAN: Hey, man, you don't talk to the Coach. You listen to him. The man's enlarged my mind. He's a poet warrior in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he'll... uh... well, you'll say "hello" to him, right? And he'll just walk right by you. He won't even notice you. And suddenly he'll grab you, and he'll throw you in a corner, and he'll say, "Do you know that 'if' is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you"... I mean I'm... no, I can't... I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's... he's a great man! I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas...Your arguments man – they don’t make sense – they’re guff, they’re s***. You say he relies on nothing but pressure – well he eats pressure for breakfast GT style. You say all he does is say “tackle” and “pressure” and “run hard”. You don’t get it man, you don’t get the nightmare in your own head

BLUTHY: Er ok Johnny. I’m going to walk away from you now avoiding eye contact. You should get some rest

[BLUTHY voice-over] Coach Richo was lying down in the corner, slowly dripping water onto his shaved head (it was shave your head for cancer week) On the highway, I thought that the minute I looked at him, I'd know what to do, but it didn't happen. I was in there with him for days, not under guard; I was free, but he knew I wasn't going anywhere. He knew more about what I was going to do than I did. And what would his people back home want if they ever learned just how far from them he'd really gone – obsessed with nothing but pressure and tackling? He broke from them, and then he broke from himself. I'd never seen a man so broken up and ripped apart.

RICHO: Did they say why, why they want to terminate my coaching?

BLUTHY: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.

RICHO: It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?

BLUTHY: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your tactics were unsound and too simple

RICHO: Is my game plan unsound?

BLUTHY: I don't see any game plan at all, sir.

RICHO: I expected someone like you. What did you expect? Are you an assassin?

BLUTHY: Well I sometimes question you on a discussion board called Saintsational so you could say I’m a sniper

RICHO: You're neither. You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill. I've seen pressure... pressure that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a simple coach. You have a right to talk s*** about me on a meaningless internet board. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what pressure means. Pressure... Pressure has a face... Nathan’s Wrights. And you must make a friend of pressure. Pressure and tackling are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Port Adelaide... seems a thousand centuries ago. We made them run hard every day, pushing them to their limits. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. Tackling and pressure! And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. All I need them to do is tackle and put on pressure. Nothing else. Well maybe be strong. Yeah need them to be strong. That would be significantly pleasing.

BLUTHY: Er ok. You know what Richo. Now I’ve met you, I realise you are the bat-s*** crazy type that the best coaches are. I’ll leave you be

RICHO [whispering]: The pressure….the pressure

(All apologies to Francis Coppola)

[Rosco]

the horror

[saynta]

the horror

My thoughts were..f*** me.

[loris]

Misplaced apology to Francis Coppola Bluthy, he was simply a plagiarist......... apology should righty go to Joseph Conrad...... the horror, the horror of such an error!!!!! But I understand you are under the pressure, the pressure!

[Bluthy]

Misplaced apology to Francis Coppola Bluthy, he was simply a plagiarist......... apology should righty go to Joseph Conrad...... the horror, the horror of such an error!!!!! But I understand you are under the pressure, the pressure!

HOD is a wild book - gets quite confusing with the narrative within a narrative

[BigMart]

As soon as I read something inaccurate, I can't give the article credibility... Poorly researched is at that indicates

"Leigh Montagna a fledgling player in the Grant Thomas era"

First three years he was developing as he was 178cm 72kg at the time... However one season was a write off with a broken ankle
Although he was a RS nominee with 20 odd touches in a 2003 game and a Brownlow vote in another


2005 he started to consistently get games and playing well at the back end of the year, including the finals.

In 2006 he arrived
Played all games, 420 odd disposals, runner up B&F

That was Under GT

When Ross got to StK Joey was established as a 23yo with 50+ games off a break out season

[Johnny Member]

As soon as I read something inaccurate, I can't give the article credibility... Poorly researched is at that indicates

"Leigh Montagna a fledgling player in the Grant Thomas era"

First three years he was developing as he was 178cm 72kg at the time... However one season was a write off with a broken ankle
Although he was a RS nominee with 20 odd touches in a 2003 game and a Brownlow vote in another


2005 he started to consistently get games and playing well at the back end of the year, including the finals.

In 2006 he arrived
Played all games, 420 odd disposals, runner up B&F

That was Under GT

When Ross got to StK Joey was established as a 23yo with 50+ games off a break out season

The article is irrelevant. The quotes by relevant people are what are relevant to this discussion.

[sendmehomehappy]

"The horror. The horror."