Jaxons come on down

[White Winmar]

My wish list is:

Jack Steele
Hoskin bloke
Eric McKenzie or similar
Keep pick 9 and use on gun mid

Go for a gun mid in free agency for 2018 season

How do we get pick 9?

Well meant pick 10, obviously...

Did I make any other mistakes?

Keeping our pick and getting those three in will be interesting.

If we pull off all of that, it will be a miracle. Still, I like it. My fantasy was Steele, Marchbank and Hoskin Elliott for 10, Lonie and Longer. Then I woke up from the most wonderful dream.

That's terrible.

Just because they come from GWS doesn't mean they are going to be good.

Longer was our first choice ruckman last year.
Lonie was very dangerous around goals and seemed one of the steals of the draft.
Pick 10 could be anyone.

And you want to throw that all away for a couple of blokes who can't get games at GWS, but because they come from GWS you just assume they are going to be superstars?

I've seen enough of Steele to believe he will be very, very good. Marchbank the same. WHE would be a bonus. Did you watch his first 50 games? Struggled to break into an elite midfield this year, but 4 in his draft and very good for his first three years. It is a wish list only and that won't happen.

The clue to that was the "dream" reference. As for Longer, he's a dinosaur who couldn't get a game at all this year. He has slipped behind Holmes and Pierce. We could still get something for him, but he'll struggle to play next year, after which he'll be worth nothing as a trade. Lonie also struggled this year. Second year blues, but he has attracted interest from other clubs. I'd be willing to wager that both Steele and Marchbank would be upgrades on our two. Giving up 10 is problematic, perhaps their first round pick back to us? In any event, my scenario is never going to eventuate. My mail is WHE is likely to land at the WB, Marchbank to his mentor, SOS, at Carlscum. We will get Steele if we really want him. Depends on what we are willing to give up. The days of getting something for nothing are well and truly gone.

Lonie and Sinclair have attracted some interest from GWS. They need a couple of quality small forwards. Of all the things we could afford to "lose" a small forward would be at the top of the list. We already have Gresham, Minch, Billings, Weller and Templeton, who can play similar roles. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but we've been very active players in the trade period over the past couple of years, with great effect. Trust Ameet and trout. Remember, many on here felt the likes of Membrey, Weller, Savage, Roberton and Hickey weren't much chop before we got them. Some came for free or cheaply, Hickey cost us a first rounder. Carlisle is a gun, IMHO, but many are still sceptical. We gave up a lot to get him, but he should be worth it. I know highlights reels show only the best bits, but have a gander of the three I've suggested on YouTube and you may see what I'm on about. They fit our needs. They've all done multiple pre seasons, so they are ready to go. All trades involve risk. I love the speculation around this time of year.

[Saint wagga]

We will not trade away Jack Lonie, you can take that to the bank!

[jaxons]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

[Impatient Sainter]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Thanks Jaxons - is that our chosing or his?

[Linton Street Saint]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

I am neither here nor there regarding JOM for a reasonable price considering the risk absolutely.

What really bothers me the consistent skew towards teams like Hawthorn and Sydney landing the highest profile players come trade time.

Something is really ass backwards about this system. Where is all this money coming from ?

[To the top]

What Hickey, Bruce, Membrey have shown is that you can "pick the eyes" without doing damage to your core - and, in my view anyway, that is the way to go because high profile "targets" come with a price tag (Draft picks and players) outside our capacity to pay.

As an example, Collingwood got a very good player in Treloar but look at the price they have paid.

Plus, as shown, one player such as Treloar, no matter how good he is, can not lift a team.

The other question is how do Hawthorn engineer a trade for a high profile player?

Trade out compensatory level players including to obtain First Round Draft picks?

The trade in Draft Picks will be very interesting in itself as sides such as Hawthorn look to target high profile players who will come with a price tag in regards compensation. They are not going to get O'Meara with Pick 20, which is their best pick.

The other question is how long some Clubs can remain competitive bringing in upper echelon players because chasing such players will have an impact on their core.

And, to return to the summary, St Kilda are not in a position to put cost on our core.

Plus there are the lessons to be learned from the Lyon period and Polo, Birss et al so you also have to have discipline in regards who you are looking to introduce to the long term development of the side and not just List filling.

So potential is the assessment.

[#gosaintas]

I guess peeps are happy to play for Hawks for unders cos they win flags. Makes sense to me.

[samoht]

We got McKenzie, exactly what we needed as far as pace and run and carry goes - at pick 22!
We just need to continue to "pick the eyes" as TTT mentioned - to recruit smart, look for value and not break the bank, so that we can hold on to our core at the same time - no use paying overs for a Dangerfield and lose 3 of our core in the process due to SC restrictions - we'd be going backwards.

All we need is to recruit to our needs - look for value - another couple of quality run and carry line-breakers - like McKenzie - and we're on our way to being a top 6 team.

[Saint wagga]

The hawks time will come when there group of 'generational' players are done and dusted and they are not being replaced by once in a generation players...when enough of that core is gone or becomes less influential and are not replaced, they will fall back down the ladder. there time is coming

[To the top]

In terms of the future, I would see McKenzie and White (and Rice?) as in competition with Geary, who polled so well last night.

We can only select 22 players each week!!!

The competition will hopefully be absolutely fierce and non forgiving.

And, every dog has his day.

Which means some become past tense as others bring the pressure that improved teams

[Con Gorozidis]

Let's move on from JOM.

Jack Steele probably worth around a pick 25 but we dont have a 2nd rounder.

How can we get this one done?

option a) Pick 10 but we get pick 17 back from GWS (this values Steele at pick 40 on points). Maybe we can throw in Longer to sweeten the deal.
option b) 2017 2nd rounder

Option A means we still use a first round pick (17) in the draft and then again in 2017.
Option B means will still use a first round pick (10) in the draft and then again in 2017.

I think it is important to still use your first round picks in the draft unless there is some highly unusual circumstance.

[samoht]

Jack Steele looks like a quality player - but is he what our side lacks? Does he have line breaking speed? Does he carry the ball?

Will pick 10 get us this type of player (that is lacking in our midfield)?

We need quality line breakers... 2 more McKenzies. Two more quick midfielders.

[Hemi Baxter]

No, he's not quick. He's tough and can win his own ball and he's a lovely kick. He plays taller than his height and tends to ratate forward or back.

[Hemi Baxter]

What Hickey, Bruce, Membrey have shown is that you can "pick the eyes" without doing damage to your core - and, in my view anyway, that is the way to go because high profile "targets" come with a price tag (Draft picks and players) outside our capacity to pay.

As an example, Collingwood got a very good player in Treloar but look at the price they have paid.

Plus, as shown, one player such as Treloar, no matter how good he is, can not lift a team.

The other question is how do Hawthorn engineer a trade for a high profile player?

Trade out compensatory level players including to obtain First Round Draft picks?

The trade in Draft Picks will be very interesting in itself as sides such as Hawthorn look to target high profile players who will come with a price tag in regards compensation. They are not going to get O'Meara with Pick 20, which is their best pick.

The other question is how long some Clubs can remain competitive bringing in upper echelon players because chasing such players will have an impact on their core.

And, to return to the summary, St Kilda are not in a position to put cost on our core.

Plus there are the lessons to be learned from the Lyon period and Polo, Birss et al so you also have to have discipline in regards who you are looking to introduce to the long term development of the side and not just List filling.


Plenty on here that think Hawthorn can't get both Mitchell and JOM but I will back them to do it. They are one club that doesn't mind paying overs and doing it quickly.

There is some currency to the Breust/JOM trade (probably plus a pick swap) if you believe player managers.

Hawthorn will do anything to get Mitchell across (and Sydney just can't fit him under their cap). Witness their top 2 or 3 veterans playing on half pay next year. Probably multiple high picks the price.

[borderbarry]

If we are going for three from GWS why not make it Shiel, and a couple of other A graders.

[desertsaint]

.

As an example, Collingwood got a very good player in Treloar but look at the price they have paid.

Plus, as shown, one player such as Treloar, no matter how good he is, can not lift a team.

I agree with most of your post, but if we could get Treloar for this years and next years first rounder I'd grab it before it got away.
Collingwood did better out of that than getting two decent players. when they have close to a full first team on the field Treloar will still be dominating and the rest of the team doing their bit. The elite player is the difference between playing finals and winning the big one. Take away Chappy, Pendlebury, from 2009/10 and we win.

[fugazi]

In terms of the future, I would see McKenzie and White (and Rice?) as in competition with Geary, who polled so well last night.

We can only select 22 players each week!!!

The competition will hopefully be absolutely fierce and non forgiving.

And, every dog has his day.

Which means some become past tense as others bring the pressure that improved teams

We have recruited fairly well, but we also need some top grade talent if we want to actually win a premiership....at sometime or other we have to pull out a massive trade. Fyfe next year maybe.

This year may be a good year to trade our pick 10 and Lonie/ Sinclair combination for a couple of GWS fringe players (Steele/ Marchbank/ WHE) and see if we can get a Bruce/ Weller kind of result

Free Agency for a superstar next year (or this) and have a crack from 2018 at some silverware

[The_President]

The hawks time will come when there group of 'generational' players are done and dusted and they are not being replaced by once in a generation players...when enough of that core is gone or becomes less influential and are not replaced, they will fall back down the ladder. there time is coming

Agreed. Look at the amount of games that they've won by under a kick this year (and usually coming from behind and snatching it late)
In those games, if you take out a few individual moments from people like Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Cyril, Gibson, Lewis the Hawks could easily be missing the finals this year. Everyone going to the Hawks are only there to try and help the above guys boost the legend status of this team. Two years max and the Hawks will fall away. Clarkson will probably happily go too

[The_President]

Just adding on to my post above ^

No matter the talent the Hawks bring in, they can't possibly replace the talent as fast as they're going to lose them over the next year or so.

Basically the whole midfield as well as their best backman and forward.

[evertonfc]

Just adding on to my post above ^

No matter the talent the Hawks bring in, they can't possibly replace the talent as fast as they're going to lose them over the next year or so.

Basically the whole midfield as well as their best backman and forward.

Indeed, but I have a suspicion their culture is that strong that they'll never do a gigantic bottom out.

Sydney seem to have cracked this code.

[White Winmar]

In relation to JOM, does anyone else small a rat? They have labelled him the next GA Jnr, a marquee player who literally is their future. All they've offered him is a two year contract, admittedly at 750K a year. The question is, why only offer him two years? He's 22, supposedly coming into his prime, if he gets himself fit, with at least a decade of footy left in him. An absolute gun prior to the patella tendon injury. Wouldn't you throw the kitchen sink at him and try to make it almost impossible for him to leave?

The so called tough talk from their president is also just a smoke screen. Perhaps they've given up already and will take whatever scraps he could deliver. The Suns have no bargaining power, whatsoever. After all, if they let him go into the PSD, and he wants to go to the dopers, the Suns get nothing. He gets his required pay and a long term deal to give him security. The dopers get JOM and the no. 1 pick in the draft. I think I'm going to spew. As I stated, I smell a rat. Maybe JOM is never going to be the player he was. Maybe he won't play at all and spend the next couple of years in the rehab room. Maybe the Suns, who've had him under their nose for the last two years, know something they don't want the rest to know. I think we should steer clear. There are others we can target, this year and next.

[Johnny Member]

Just adding on to my post above ^

No matter the talent the Hawks bring in, they can't possibly replace the talent as fast as they're going to lose them over the next year or so.

Basically the whole midfield as well as their best backman and forward.

Indeed, but I have a suspicion their culture is that strong that they'll never do a gigantic bottom out.

Sydney seem to have cracked this code.

Culture is a myth.

Their culture involves bulkying, violence on and off the field, drugs, recruits not even playing a game due to off field issues, verbally abusing women, fleeing the scene of sexual assault and so on and so on.

But they're good footballers with a good coach.

Their 'culture' is putrid.


But they're winning. So no one cares.

Once you start losing - only then does 'culture' become a problem.

[wally]

Sydney have done well recruiting someone good every year.How they got Tippett and Buddy still amazes me.
Their academy picks give them a cheap boost too.
Geelong seemed to come out okay.I thought they would bottom out lucky with injuries

[st.byron]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Excellent. Dodged a bullet.

[Spinner]

In relation to JOM, does anyone else small a rat? They have labelled him the next GA Jnr, a marquee player who literally is their future. All they've offered him is a two year contract, admittedly at 750K a year. The question is, why only offer him two years? He's 22, supposedly coming into his prime, if he gets himself fit, with at least a decade of footy left in him. An absolute gun prior to the patella tendon injury. Wouldn't you throw the kitchen sink at him and try to make it almost impossible for him to leave?

The so called tough talk from their president is also just a smoke screen. Perhaps they've given up already and will take whatever scraps he could deliver. The Suns have no bargaining power, whatsoever. After all, if they let him go into the PSD, and he wants to go to the dopers, the Suns get nothing. He gets his required pay and a long term deal to give him security. The dopers get JOM and the no. 1 pick in the draft. I think I'm going to spew. As I stated, I smell a rat. Maybe JOM is never going to be the player he was. Maybe he won't play at all and spend the next couple of years in the rehab room. Maybe the Suns, who've had him under their nose for the last two years, know something they don't want the rest to know. I think we should steer clear. There are others we can target, this year and next.

Read or heard something the 2 years was at JOM request.


Also - unrelated to this post. Does anyone else pick up on Essendon being linked to these names because they finished last and used as a bargaining chip for the player / manager. This might be old news and basic strategy but noticed it happened to us when we finished last and most years with the bottom team. Player A says happy with Team X and Team Last... The bottom team is used to scare and get a better deal to go to Team X as opposed to the PSD. In short - never closing the PSD as an option but when really it isn't. Happened with JORouke and Jascke too.