Ross Lyon

[thejiggingsaint]

Did I say they were "appalling" ? just throwing them into the mix too! no sense in leaving those gems out in the cold champ! I think the point being made by St Byron has some merit. True, Lyon brought in King and Gardiner as rucks, but they were never going to be long term prospects. Lyon, (like every AFL senior coach) will be judged on results, and (IMHO) those "results" do NOT simply equate to a "win-loss" record, but rather the overall health and wellbeing of a clubs playing list during their tenure, both in terms of onfield success (naturally) and in building a side for long term success. A glance at the current situation over in WA provides us with a disaster on a "Tim Watson-esque" scale for the Fremantle footy club. Minor Premiers in 2015, (exiting in straight sets incidentally) to a zero-ten "kick start" in 2016. Lyon's hisstory of "development" and recruitment there at Freo is an exercise in deja-vu par excellence!

[samoht]

I wouldn't write off Freo next year. They have a very, very strong midfield - and they ran us ragged in our last encounter (for 3 quarters), despite missing Fyfe. They just need a marking forward and a good key defender and they are back in business in a big way - even if Lyon sticks to his tired old game plan (which will come unstuck again in the finals).

[thejiggingsaint]

Hmmmmm?

[hayes66]

Did I say they were "appalling" ? just throwing them into the mix too! no sense in leaving those gems out in the cold champ! I think the point being made by St Byron has some merit. True, Lyon brought in King and Gardiner as rucks, but they were never going to be long term prospects. Lyon, (like every AFL senior coach) will be judged on results, and (IMHO) those "results" do NOT simply equate to a "win-loss" record, but rather the overall health and wellbeing of a clubs playing list during their tenure, both in terms of onfield success (naturally) and in building a side for long term success. A glance at the current situation over in WA provides us with a disaster on a "Tim Watson-esque" scale for the Fremantle footy club. Minor Premiers in 2015, (exiting in straight sets incidentally) to a zero-ten "kick start" in 2016. Lyon's hisstory of "development" and recruitment there at Freo is an exercise in deja-vu par excellence!

I think I need to clarify my point. I am not debating Ross's win/ loss record or his efforts at Freo. My point was in regards to the comment that during Ross's tenure the recruiting was appalling.
I disagree with that comment.

[skeptic]

The way some people bang on about Lyon! Some people can hold a grudge or what! Imagine if they were crossed in real life.

People do forget that at our peak in 2009 we scored heavily and we were impossible to score against. Our ability to lock down and restrict teams was unprecedented.

Anyway, we move on.

I wouldn't say I hold a grudge Pav. True I don't like Lyon. Because of the way he left and his head in the sand about list development. The recruiting during his last years was appalling and he has to bear at least some responsibility for that.
But he did take us oh so close and I really thought we were going to win it in 2009. So he had something going for him.

His finals record is though, in terms of points scored in finals, very poor. And the way Freo are travelling he might just leave them with a list in worse shape than ours when he left us.

Get very frustrated with statements like,"The recruiting doing Lyons era was appalling". Now you have an opinion but is it accurate?
Here's some facts to consider:
These are the players recruited during Ross's time that I don't think rate as appalling.
Gardiner and King.
Schneider and Ray.
Armitage and Geary.
McEvoy, Steven and Dawson.
Lynch and Stanley.
Cripps and Hutchings.
This was all done while playing finals and Grand Finals.
Were mistakes made?, yes but to say appalling is just group thinking clap trap!!

I thought the criticism of recruits in the RL era had more to do with the players that we got in the draft in that era rather than the players we traded for. It's an interesting list that you've put together there and it highlights my own belief that the issue was less about the players that came through the door and more about our ability to develop them.

Ppl look at our drafting over that era and suggest that both our selections were terrible and the talent pool was too thin. But the thing is that most of the players we got generally went about where they were anticipated to with a few exceptions... Yet ppl really believe that the Saints quite literally got nearly every pick wrong for 4 years. It's always been somewhat mind boggling too me.

But on your list...
Armitage couldn't make the team, neither could Steven
Dempster only came good in RL's last season and Geary stepped up really well in Watters' first season
Lynch never played consecutive games
Hutchins was delisted as a rookie
McEvoy was only played consistently in 2011 after every other ruck in the team went down

It wasn't the recruiting

[whiskers3614]

I wouldn't write off Freo next year. They have a very, very strong midfield - and they ran us ragged in our last encounter (for 3 quarters), despite missing Fyfe. They just need a marking forward and a good key defender and they are back in business in a big way - even if Lyon sticks to his tired old game plan (which will come unstuck again in the finals).

and what marking forward would willingly move to a Lyon coached team?

[Con Gorozidis]

Remove Essendon* and Lyon is second bottom in his tenth year coaching and fifth year at Freo.

If you are second bottom in your fifth year at a club it means you are no longer a good coach.

Pretty obvious I think.

[hayes66]

The way some people bang on about Lyon! Some people can hold a grudge or what! Imagine if they were crossed in real life.

People do forget that at our peak in 2009 we scored heavily and we were impossible to score against. Our ability to lock down and restrict teams was unprecedented.

Anyway, we move on.

I wouldn't say I hold a grudge Pav. True I don't like Lyon. Because of the way he left and his head in the sand about list development. The recruiting during his last years was appalling and he has to bear at least some responsibility for that.
But he did take us oh so close and I really thought we were going to win it in 2009. So he had something going for him.

His finals record is though, in terms of points scored in finals, very poor. And the way Freo are travelling he might just leave them with a list in worse shape than ours when he left us.

Get very frustrated with statements like,"The recruiting doing Lyons era was appalling". Now you have an opinion but is it accurate?
Here's some facts to consider:
These are the players recruited during Ross's time that I don't think rate as appalling.
Gardiner and King.
Schneider and Ray.
Armitage and Geary.
McEvoy, Steven and Dawson.
Lynch and Stanley.
Cripps and Hutchings.
This was all done while playing finals and Grand Finals.
Were mistakes made?, yes but to say appalling is just group thinking clap trap!![/quote


It wasn't the recruiting

I agree. The recruiting wasn't perfect but I believe it is one of footies many fallacies that St Kilda's drafting during RL's time was appalling.
Recruiting at Freo has not been appalling either. It is RL's anal nature towards his game plan. He cannot tolerate putting up with Kids playing who naturally enough make mistakes.
Now is RL's test. He says he is in development mode now. Does he have the patience now to put up with kids inconsistencys? Kids making mistakes?
Until he shows he can build a list he, in my opinion, cannot be termed a good coach. Forget about great coach that's miles off for mine.

[skeptic]

The way some people bang on about Lyon! Some people can hold a grudge or what! Imagine if they were crossed in real life.

People do forget that at our peak in 2009 we scored heavily and we were impossible to score against. Our ability to lock down and restrict teams was unprecedented.

Anyway, we move on.

I wouldn't say I hold a grudge Pav. True I don't like Lyon. Because of the way he left and his head in the sand about list development. The recruiting during his last years was appalling and he has to bear at least some responsibility for that.
But he did take us oh so close and I really thought we were going to win it in 2009. So he had something going for him.

His finals record is though, in terms of points scored in finals, very poor. And the way Freo are travelling he might just leave them with a list in worse shape than ours when he left us.

Get very frustrated with statements like,"The recruiting doing Lyons era was appalling". Now you have an opinion but is it accurate?
Here's some facts to consider:
These are the players recruited during Ross's time that I don't think rate as appalling.
Gardiner and King.
Schneider and Ray.
Armitage and Geary.
McEvoy, Steven and Dawson.
Lynch and Stanley.
Cripps and Hutchings.
This was all done while playing finals and Grand Finals.
Were mistakes made?, yes but to say appalling is just group thinking clap trap!![/quote


It wasn't the recruiting

I agree. The recruiting wasn't perfect but I believe it is one of footies many fallacies that St Kilda's drafting during RL's time was appalling.
Recruiting at Freo has not been appalling either. It is RL's anal nature towards his game plan. He cannot tolerate putting up with Kids playing who naturally enough make mistakes.
Now is RL's test. He says he is in development mode now. Does he have the patience now to put up with kids inconsistencys? Kids making mistakes?
Until he shows he can build a list he, in my opinion, cannot be termed a good coach. Forget about great coach that's miles off for mine.

You should post more

[Con Gorozidis]

Sumich, Ballantyne and quite possibly Fyfe all gone.
It seems not everyone loves the super coach.
He wears his players and staff down and grinds his club down down down in to the turf.

[lintonstreet]

Sumich, Ballantyne and quite possibly Fyfe all gone.
It seems not everyone loves the super coach.
He wears his players and staff down and grinds his club down down down in to the turf.

+1

[Toy Saint]

Perhaps Ross Lyon could go to Brisbane. They are calling out for an experrienced senior coach.

They have a bunch of young players that need to be developed. Lyon can teach them his defensive game plan.

[Scollop]

Perhaps Ross Lyon could go to Brisbane. They are calling out for an experrienced senior coach.

They have a bunch of young players that need to be developed. Lyon can teach them his defensive game plan.

Nope

[saynta]

Perhaps Ross Lyon could go to Brisbane. They are calling out for an experrienced senior coach.

They have a bunch of young players that need to be developed. Lyon can teach them his defensive game plan.

Bahahahahaha



Sorry toy saint.

[Toy Saint]

Wow Scallop, how did you manage to dredge that from the archives.....the Lions have dodged a bullet!