List heading the right direction

[older saint]

When you look at our list there is much cute for optimism. If you break the list up into players who are at their peak or maintaining a top standard, potential to continue to A grade, guys with improvement to come, those as good as they will get and those likely to decline it is enough to make many clubs jealous. Just add a few pieced to the top end and will be great

Peak level or close to peak: Roo. Many, Steven, Dempster, Armitage

Potential to be A grade players if keep improving: Hickey, Ross, Weller, Bruce, Newness

Improvement to come: Billings, Acres, Gresham, McCartin, Membrey, Dunstan, Longer, Pierce, Webster, Goddard, Wright, McKenzie

Jury still out ( balls in their court): Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton, Minchinton, Freeman,Holmes,

Unseen: White, Rice, Carlisle , Payne, O'Kearney, Coughlin

Good as they get not necessarily a bad group as level may be good) - Roberton, Geary, Savage, Lee, Delaney, Murdoch, Curren, Shenton, Saunders

Decline: Fisher, Gilbert,

Not too many List cloggers there really , especially after this season will be cleaned out i would think - Curren, Shenton, Saunders, Murdoch, Delaney, Lee. Fisher probably retire unless finishes strongly uninjured.

Next step is 50% of potential a readers to achieve that , 4-5 improves to become potential a graders and Jury out list is replaced by first or second year players .

[Saint_J]

Jury still out ( balls in their court): Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton, Minchinton, Freeman,Holmes,

I'm sorry the jury is not stil out on MeatBall he's made it imo.

excellent thinker with ball in hand. applies excellent pressure sticks tackles, rarely crumbles under pressure, has an excellent sharp low bullet pass. Kid is young has under 30 games and is looking good playing out of his preferred position. I see it in this kid, I'm just waiting till he starts to spend most of his time on ball.

He's a got a solid future and i believe Ritch see's it as well.

[older saint]

Jury still out ( balls in their court): Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton, Minchinton, Freeman,Holmes,

I'm sorry the jury is not stil out on MeatBall he's made it imo.

excellent thinker with ball in hand. applies excellent pressure sticks tackles, rarely crumbles under pressure, has an excellent sharp low bullet pass. Kid is young has under 30 games and is looking good playing out of his preferred position. I see it in this kid, I'm just waiting till he starts to spend most of his time on ball.

He's a got a solid future and i believe Ritch see's it as well.

Perhaps , but i don't like to jump the gun early. Has been good this year but same could be said for Lonie, Sinclair last year. 3 or 4 years at the club you would have hoped for that return by now. Can he back it up with a little more attention and pressure from internal on position, IMO not yet convinced.

Thats what makes sites like these work we all see thing different

[Bluthy]

The biggest danger now is to over rate our list and not do the real hard, ruthless digging beneath the surface find the fault lines in players. Richmond fell into this trap and are now in nowhere land. To win a flag you need a list of about 30 that are genuine quality AFL players.

We had a really soft draw this year, flew under the radar a bit and and have relied on a lot of pressure and tackling to stifle the oppo - but is that sustainable? We need guys who can use the footy well - that is how you become a sustainably good team and don't have to rely on killing yourself with running and pressure every week.

We're doing well with developing our list but I think we need to keep drinking deep at the draft rather than get sucked into a top up mentality. We need more cream and the draft is where you can get it cheap. It's a lottery for sure but now is when we can afford to play the lottery. Even if we end up missing the finals next year no one will be too freaked out. Carlisle still worries me as being too short-term thinking eg. we need a big back to make finals so lets trade out our top pick to get him. I'd prefer a slower build burn to get it right.

[carn_sainter]

Jury still out ( balls in their court): Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton, Minchinton, Freeman,Holmes,

I'm sorry the jury is not stil out on MeatBall he's made it imo.

excellent thinker with ball in hand. applies excellent pressure sticks tackles, rarely crumbles under pressure, has an excellent sharp low bullet pass. Kid is young has under 30 games and is looking good playing out of his preferred position. I see it in this kid, I'm just waiting till he starts to spend most of his time on ball.

He's a got a solid future and i believe Ritch see's it as well.

I agree wholeheartedly. Have been a massive fan of meatball all year. He has all the tools to play as a very damaging, accountable midfielder over the next couple of seasons and he is comfortable kicking goals. Very good leg speed, he takes the first option in traffic so he doesn't get caught with the pill very often. A lot to like. I reckon he will have a cracking good season in 2017 and expect he'll play at centre clearances a bit.

I think this is a strength of how the list is developing...we have quite a few players who are getting stoppage play down as a secondary skill/position. Excluding ruckmen, next year I can see us being confident at a centre bounce with any configuration of Steven, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Newnes, Armitage, Gresham, Minchington, Sinclair, Weller with fingers crossed for guys like Freeman, Wright & Billings too.


It's tempting to use him as a comparison/template for Templeton...maybe next year Eli will get his crack and try cement a spot in the team before really establishing himself as a contributor in 2018.

[thejiggingsaint]

I have EVERY confidence in the football department and coaching staff to maintain the obvious improvement in the list management and recruitment of the St Kilda footy club.

[BigMart]

So why s the jury out on 3 or 4 second year players... And there's a few third or fourth year players on the phone mprovement to come section...

Is it just because the are in the VFL at the moment?

Who was potting Seb Ross last year... He had a 10 week hammy and then broke his way in and did OK considering he had a broken pre season.

[thejiggingsaint]

BM.........Have an emoticon; ***********%

[skeptic]

Jury still out ( balls in their court): Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton, Minchinton, Freeman,Holmes,

I'm sorry the jury is not stil out on MeatBall he's made it imo.

excellent thinker with ball in hand. applies excellent pressure sticks tackles, rarely crumbles under pressure, has an excellent sharp low bullet pass. Kid is young has under 30 games and is looking good playing out of his preferred position. I see it in this kid, I'm just waiting till he starts to spend most of his time on ball.

He's a got a solid future and i believe Ritch see's it as well.

I agree wholeheartedly. Have been a massive fan of meatball all year. He has all the tools to play as a very damaging, accountable midfielder over the next couple of seasons and he is comfortable kicking goals. Very good leg speed, he takes the first option in traffic so he doesn't get caught with the pill very often. A lot to like. I reckon he will have a cracking good season in 2017 and expect he'll play at centre clearances a bit.

I think this is a strength of how the list is developing...we have quite a few players who are getting stoppage play down as a secondary skill/position. Excluding ruckmen, next year I can see us being confident at a centre bounce with any configuration of Steven, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Newnes, Armitage, Gresham, Minchington, Sinclair, Weller with fingers crossed for guys like Freeman, Wright & Billings too.


It's tempting to use him as a comparison/template for Templeton...maybe next year Eli will get his crack and try cement a spot in the team before really establishing himself as a contributor in 2018.

Remember how bad his first few games this year were as well.

His papers looked stamped the second time he was dropped when he registered 3 possessions or whatever it was. He's come a long way IMO. I reckon he's a lock.

[older saint]

So why s the jury out on 3 or 4 second year players... And there's a few third or fourth year players on the phone mprovement to come section...

Is it just because the are in the VFL at the moment?

Who was potting Seb Ross last year... He had a 10 week hammy and then broke his way in and did OK considering he had a broken pre season.

JMO thats all based on my minimal football knowledge from watching the games played and ability to retain a place in the team , or in case of Pierce tall guys take significantly longer in all sports. Not where they play

Seb Ross has really come on and i will comfortably put my hand up and say 2 years ago i thought he was trade bait- last year was a write off after the pre season injury. Unlike the Fonz i was w w wrong.

Interested in others thoughts

[BigMart]

Lonie and Sinclair are certainties to make it with a bit of experience

DMac and Acres will do the same

Templeton needs an opportunity

Paddy, Dunstan, Hugh and JB really need to develop their running power

[Zed]

Yes it shaping up OK, and a very even spread of talent, but missing the real cream - the guys like Burgoyne who make every single kick count. If and when we get to the big dance again, we just need to take our chances and generally speaking that means we need a few more guys who are elite ball users in the team.

[supersaints]

Yes it shaping up OK, and a very even spread of talent, but missing the real cream - the guys like Burgoyne who make every single kick count. If and when we get to the big dance again, we just need to take our chances and generally speaking that means we need a few more guys who are elite ball users in the team.

I presume your talking about Shaun Burgoyne..?. He's 33 years of age... How about you come back to this post when Billings Gresch and whoever else you would like to pick when they have ten years experince... Can't believe that people expect kids to have the polish of someone with so much experience.. Not going to go back crashing data , but I'll bet for example agree the first ten games of Gresch would be every bit as good as Burgoyne's first ten.
We can't compare younb and inexperienced players to elite mature players with ten seasons ...it make no sense whatsoever..
I'm sure some of our young players will turn out guns.
Eg: Harvey looked just average at the start, so did Lenny, Dal, Goddard etc ..I could go on and on but there's little point really and it makes my head hurt banging it against brick walls

[prwilkinson]

Yes it shaping up OK, and a very even spread of talent, but missing the real cream - the guys like Burgoyne who make every single kick count. If and when we get to the big dance again, we just need to take our chances and generally speaking that means we need a few more guys who are elite ball users in the team.

I presume your talking about Shaun Burgoyne..?. He's 33 years of age... How about you come back to this post when Billings Gresch and whoever else you would like to pick when they have ten years experince... Can't believe that people expect kids to have the polish of someone with so much experience.. Not going to go back crashing data , but I'll bet for example agree the first ten games of Gresch would be every bit as good as Burgoyne's first ten.
We can't compare younb and inexperienced players to elite mature players with ten seasons ...it make no sense whatsoever..
I'm sure some of our young players will turn out guns.
Eg: Harvey looked just average at the start, so did Lenny, Dal, Goddard etc ..I could go on and on but there's little point really and it makes my head hurt banging it against brick walls

Yeah you make very good points. One thing at a time... The icing and cherry come last! Just one thing though... Go back and watch the 1991 Elimination Final against Geelong and in particular, Harvey's game as an 18 year old. I mean... that's as good a match you'll EVER see from an 18 year old.... in a brutally physical game and Burkey got knocked out in the first quarter as well. F*&k Banger was a champion.

[supersaints]

Think Harvey was twenty years old in the 1991 elimination final (saw the game myself and agree how well he played and there is no doubt an absolute champion
Harvey started in 1988 at 17 so he effectively had four pre Seasons by then.
I saw all his early games I don't think he showed as much talent as Gresh in the first dozen games.. But that's just my opinion
The point I'm trying to make is that one only needed to see Gresh in a couple of games to know he is going to be a player, that's not always the case

For reasons I find hard to understand the average poster tries to put a ceiling on our kids... Rather unfair and unrealistic

[Impatient Sainter]

If any of the rumoured trades occur we wIll have a significantly better midfield and defensive list and be a real finals chance next year - hopefully? That plus another period of injury free pre season into our young chargers and we should be the big improvers?

[borderbarry]

Just by adding Carlisle,and if Freeman comes good, we will be a much better side.

We are supposedly interested in the following players/
Jaegar O'Meara, Brad Crouch, Jack Steele, Michael Hurley, and a number of others. Have any of these players shown any interest in a move to St>kilda, or any other player for that matter?

[White Winmar]

Barrett mentioned on TFS that the saints have declared their interest in Hurley. Apparently he formed a strong bond with Richo when AR was an assistant at Essendon. Bulldogs have made an offer also, as have the dopers. He returns to Australia soon. This could get interesting. Given his friendship with the coach, the fact we have lots of salary cap room so can make a substantial offer, and the fact he comes from a saints mad family, I'd say we have some hope of getting him. I hope we do.

[older saint]

Barrett mentioned on TFS that the saints have declared their interest in Hurley. Apparently he formed a strong bond with Richo when AR was an assistant at Essendon. Bulldogs have made an offer also, as have the dopers. He returns to Australia soon. This could get interesting. Given his friendship with the coach, the fact we have lots of salary cap room so can make a substantial offer, and the fact he comes from a saints mad family, I'd say we have some hope of getting him. I hope we do.

I wonder if the whole thing about not getting along with Carlisle was more about the fact they both played the same positions of Key back and Key forward and seemed to be the 2 who were rotated. Hence Carlisle unhappy playing forward was linked to Hurley playing back and then they didn't get on. IF they can work together a back 6 of Carlisle Hurley, Goddard, Geary, Newness and say Robbo looks pretty solid when combined with a front 6 of Paddy, Bruce, Membrey, Billings, Weller and resting mid.

Just need some pure silk in the middle and the pieces are there

[To the top]

Had some Collingwood supporters as guests at one of Harvey's first games (if not his first).

He dazzled and we knew we had a Champion of the game, which was acknowledged by our guests

And so it turned out.

Gresham is nowhere near what Harvey was at the same point in his career.

Gresham shows potential - he is not showing he is going to become a Legend of the game.

[BigMart]

Harvey average...

Nah.. Don't think so?

He was very good right from the start... An injury in 89 was the only issue he had... In 91 and 92 at 20 & 21yo he was a star of the comp... Not just a talented kid.

It'd be unfair to compare anyone to him... A freak

[SaintPav]

Had some Collingwood supporters as guests at one of Harvey's first games (if not his first).

He dazzled and we knew we had a Champion of the game, which was acknowledged by our guests

And so it turned out.

Gresham is nowhere near what Harvey was at the same point in his career.

Gresham shows potential - he is not showing he is going to become a Legend of the game.

Who were the guests?

[lintonstreet]

Barrett mentioned on TFS that the saints have declared their interest in Hurley. Apparently he formed a strong bond with Richo when AR was an assistant at Essendon. Bulldogs have made an offer also, as have the dopers. He returns to Australia soon. This could get interesting. Given his friendship with the coach, the fact we have lots of salary cap room so can make a substantial offer, and the fact he comes from a saints mad family, I'd say we have some hope of getting him. I hope we do.

I will pray we get Hurley.
I know the club is very keen on him and as you say we can afford him.
Can you imagine a backline with hurley, carlisle and goddard - finally some height and big bodies!

[Zed]

Yes it shaping up OK, and a very even spread of talent, but missing the real cream - the guys like Burgoyne who make every single kick count. If and when we get to the big dance again, we just need to take our chances and generally speaking that means we need a few more guys who are elite ball users in the team.

I presume your talking about Shaun Burgoyne..?. He's 33 years of age... How about you come back to this post when Billings Gresch and whoever else you would like to pick when they have ten years experince... Can't believe that people expect kids to have the polish of someone with so much experience.. Not going to go back crashing data , but I'll bet for example agree the first ten games of Gresch would be every bit as good as Burgoyne's first ten.
We can't compare younb and inexperienced players to elite mature players with ten seasons ...it make no sense whatsoever..
I'm sure some of our young players will turn out guns.
Eg: Harvey looked just average at the start, so did Lenny, Dal, Goddard etc ..I could go on and on but there's little point really and it makes my head hurt banging it against brick walls

I don't think I said our young guys aren't going to be guns - im stating the fact that right now we are not an elite kicking team like hawthorn who can win games when they have had less of the ball than their opponents but have clearly used it better. Just stating what's missing. And yes Hawthorn are experienced mature team and we are predominantly a young team but just adding 10 years to their birth certificate doesn't automatically mean their kicking efficiency improves by 10%. Jack Steven is a gun but isn't going to have Burgoyne like skills in 5 years from now. Hawks have built their game around smart ball usage we have built our game around winning more of the ball through pressure.

[Jacks Back]

Barrett mentioned on TFS that the saints have declared their interest in Hurley. Apparently he formed a strong bond with Richo when AR was an assistant at Essendon. Bulldogs have made an offer also, as have the dopers. He returns to Australia soon. This could get interesting. Given his friendship with the coach, the fact we have lots of salary cap room so can make a substantial offer, and the fact he comes from a saints mad family, I'd say we have some hope of getting him. I hope we do.

I wonder if the whole thing about not getting along with Carlisle was more about the fact they both played the same positions of Key back and Key forward and seemed to be the 2 who were rotated. Hence Carlisle unhappy playing forward was linked to Hurley playing back and then they didn't get on. IF they can work together a back 6 of Carlisle Hurley, Goddard, Geary, Newness and say Robbo looks pretty solid when combined with a front 6 of Paddy, Bruce, Membrey, Billings, Weller and resting mid.

Just need some pure silk in the middle and the pieces are there

If we get Hurley that will mean we have 4 players on our list that haven't played for a year (those 3 tall defenders and Freeman who hasn't played for 3? years).