Don't think your going to like this years draft either Bluthy
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Goose is king wrote:Gresham's goal was better than Francis' goal. That should make make people feel better about the trade
Bluthy wrote:Well firstly we may still have got Gresh with out second rounder - who knows - little mids are not in vogue. And I find it hilarious that you get called "relentless" or "obsessed" just because you are consistent with your views. Unlike so many here I have the balls to put something on the line. Thats the fun of this place. These "lets wait and see what happens", "I think the club knows better than you" comments are boring as all s*** and don't create any interesting debate.
This thread was more about the clubs approach to getting into the trading game with our top picks rather than about Carlisle or Gresh. Its a reasoned argument based on Hawks approach to use all their top picks for their match winners - Roughhead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli. Then trade in to fill gaps particularly the backline. It was a very clever approach. At the moment I think we only have two match winners - Paddy and Billings (Acres is an outside chance). I think we need more.
p.s Yes I really hope Carlisle is a bust then we won't win another flag which will be really great for me. I've got everything crossed we don't win another flag. Thats why I go to the footy and scream myself hoarse (and I'll probably cheer the loudest for Jake). People getting up on their "true supporters" pedestal make me laugh.
evo wrote:Don't think we had a second round pick in the draft.
Called Petracca.bigcarl wrote:Might be a win/win Bluthy. Gresh is showing signs of being something special and Carlisle we know is a quality tall.
But I agree we could do with a big-bodied explosive midfielder.
Pick 5 became pick 6 due to sydney queue jumping to get Callum Mills - correctsaintsRrising wrote:evo wrote:Don't think we had a second round pick in the draft.
We did, till we traded it.
In the deal:
- Essendon received Bird and pick No.5, gave up Carlisle and pick No.44, and exchanged pick No.23 for pick No.24;
- St Kilda received Carlisle and pick No.14 and gave up pick No.5 and pick No.24;
- Sydney Swans received picks No.23 and pick No.44, and gave up pick No.14 and Bird.
Due to bidding pick 5 became pick 6 and pick 24 became pick 29. These were uesed on Parish and Alex Morgan.
At present getting in Carlisle and Gresham is looking to be a lot more valuable than if we had just kept and used the picks directly.
Essendon took Paish with their original pick.Griggsy wrote:Is this a twisted Darcy Parish argument so we can't say he was gone at that pick.
Frustrating isn't it?ace wrote:Essendon took Paish with their original pick.Griggsy wrote:Is this a twisted Darcy Parish argument so we can't say he was gone at that pick.
He was never available to St Kilda before or after the Carlisle trade..
Not according to Mark Fine on Sunday morning show.ace wrote:Pick 5 became pick 6 due to sydney queue jumping to get Callum Mills - correctsaintsRrising wrote:evo wrote:Don't think we had a second round pick in the draft.
We did, till we traded it.
In the deal:
- Essendon received Bird and pick No.5, gave up Carlisle and pick No.44, and exchanged pick No.23 for pick No.24;
- St Kilda received Carlisle and pick No.14 and gave up pick No.5 and pick No.24;
- Sydney Swans received picks No.23 and pick No.44, and gave up pick No.14 and Bird.
Due to bidding pick 5 became pick 6 and pick 24 became pick 29. These were uesed on Parish and Alex Morgan.
At present getting in Carlisle and Gresham is looking to be a lot more valuable than if we had just kept and used the picks directly.
But Essendon had pick 4 that became 5 - they took Darcy Parish with that.
We gave Essendon pick 5 that became 6 - they took Aaron Francis
It is Francis not Parish that we sacrificed to get Gresham.
If that is what he said then he is simply wrong.SaintPav wrote:Not according to Mark Fine on Sunday morning show.ace wrote:Pick 5 became pick 6 due to sydney queue jumping to get Callum Mills - correctsaintsRrising wrote:evo wrote:Don't think we had a second round pick in the draft.
We did, till we traded it.
In the deal:
- Essendon received Bird and pick No.5, gave up Carlisle and pick No.44, and exchanged pick No.23 for pick No.24;
- St Kilda received Carlisle and pick No.14 and gave up pick No.5 and pick No.24;
- Sydney Swans received picks No.23 and pick No.44, and gave up pick No.14 and Bird.
Due to bidding pick 5 became pick 6 and pick 24 became pick 29. These were uesed on Parish and Alex Morgan.
At present getting in Carlisle and Gresham is looking to be a lot more valuable than if we had just kept and used the picks directly.
But Essendon had pick 4 that became 5 - they took Darcy Parish with that.
We gave Essendon pick 5 that became 6 - they took Aaron Francis
It is Francis not Parish that we sacrificed to get Gresham.
Said the deal was our pick 5 for Carslile and pick 18. Dopes used pick 5 on Parish
I think your quoting Hawthorn out of context , they traded every trust round pick from 2008 until 2015,Bluthy wrote:Well firstly we may still have got Gresh with out second rounder - who knows - little mids are not in vogue. And I find it hilarious that you get called "relentless" or "obsessed" just because you are consistent with your views. Unlike so many here I have the balls to put something on the line. Thats the fun of this place. These "lets wait and see what happens", "I think the club knows better than you" comments are boring as all s*** and don't create any interesting debate.
This thread was more about the clubs approach to getting into the trading game with our top picks rather than about Carlisle or Gresh. Its a reasoned argument based on Hawks approach to use all their top picks for their match winners - Roughhead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli. Then trade in to fill gaps particularly the backline. It was a very clever approach. At the moment I think we only have two match winners - Paddy and Billings (Acres is an outside chance). I think we need more.
p.s Yes I really hope Carlisle is a bust then we won't win another flag which will be really great for me. I've got everything crossed we don't win another flag. Thats why I go to the footy and scream myself hoarse (and I'll probably cheer the loudest for Jake). People getting up on their "true supporters" pedestal make me laugh.
Those boring posters with their support for the club, coupled with relentless common sense, eh? They really ruin this forum.Bluthy wrote:Unlike so many here I have the balls to put something on the line. Thats the fun of this place. These "lets wait and see what happens", "I think the club knows better than you" comments are boring as all s*** and don't create any interesting debate.
They certainly did use pick 5 on Parish but not our pick 5 that we gave to Essendon because it became pick 6 when Sydney queue jumped at pick 3 to grab Callum Mills one of their academy players. Essendon already had pick 4 that became pick 5 after Sydney's queue jump.SaintPav wrote:Not according to Mark Fine on Sunday morning show.ace wrote:Pick 5 became pick 6 due to sydney queue jumping to get Callum Mills - correctsaintsRrising wrote:evo wrote:Don't think we had a second round pick in the draft.
We did, till we traded it.
In the deal:
- Essendon received Bird and pick No.5, gave up Carlisle and pick No.44, and exchanged pick No.23 for pick No.24;
- St Kilda received Carlisle and pick No.14 and gave up pick No.5 and pick No.24;
- Sydney Swans received picks No.23 and pick No.44, and gave up pick No.14 and Bird.
Due to bidding pick 5 became pick 6 and pick 24 became pick 29. These were uesed on Parish and Alex Morgan.
At present getting in Carlisle and Gresham is looking to be a lot more valuable than if we had just kept and used the picks directly.
But Essendon had pick 4 that became 5 - they took Darcy Parish with that.
We gave Essendon pick 5 that became 6 - they took Aaron Francis
It is Francis not Parish that we sacrificed to get Gresham.
Said the deal was our pick 5 for Carslile and pick 18. Dopes used pick 5 on Parish
No I'm saying at Ground zero of their rebuild when they were finishing bottom or near bottom they used those high draft picks to get the real cream at the draft and could afford to be patient why they develop as that also kept them down to get more draft picks. Clarkson said they based that on the Saints Rooey era rebuild. Then they went a bit moneyball with lower draft picks that are more speculative to fill gaps. I think it was a clever combo of draft and trading. I'd prefer to be more focussed on the draft as that would keep us down a bit more as they develop and we keep getting some more high draft picks. I think we need a lot more cream to compete with some of the talent on GWS and Melbournes list. Even Dons and Carlton are stocking up on some really good talent. Everything is relative.supersaints wrote:I think your quoting Hawthorn out of context , they traded every trust round pick from 2008 until 2015,Bluthy wrote:Well firstly we may still have got Gresh with out second rounder - who knows - little mids are not in vogue. And I find it hilarious that you get called "relentless" or "obsessed" just because you are consistent with your views. Unlike so many here I have the balls to put something on the line. Thats the fun of this place. These "lets wait and see what happens", "I think the club knows better than you" comments are boring as all s*** and don't create any interesting debate.
This thread was more about the clubs approach to getting into the trading game with our top picks rather than about Carlisle or Gresh. Its a reasoned argument based on Hawks approach to use all their top picks for their match winners - Roughhead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli. Then trade in to fill gaps particularly the backline. It was a very clever approach. At the moment I think we only have two match winners - Paddy and Billings (Acres is an outside chance). I think we need more.
p.s Yes I really hope Carlisle is a bust then we won't win another flag which will be really great for me. I've got everything crossed we don't win another flag. Thats why I go to the footy and scream myself hoarse (and I'll probably cheer the loudest for Jake). People getting up on their "true supporters" pedestal make me laugh.
2008 Pick #16 Ryan Schoenmaker
2009 Pick #09 Traded for Shaun Burgoyne
2010 Pick #19 Isaac Smith
2011 Pick #24 Traded for Jack Gunston
2012 Pick #21 Traded for Brian Lake
2013 Pick #18 Traded for Ben McEvoy
2014 Pick #19 Traded for Jonathan O’Rourke
In 2015 they used their first draft pick on Ryan Burton and 2016 on Billy Hartung...
And don't forget... in 2016 Clarkson flew overseas to try to entice Carlilse to join the Hawks, instead of selecting us.
How is "Every decision the club and the coach make are correct and shouldn't be criticised or alternatives proposed" common sense? The reality is they will make many incorrect decisions as its incredibly complex.degruch wrote:Those boring posters with their support for the club, coupled with relentless common sense, eh? They really ruin this forum.Bluthy wrote:Unlike so many here I have the balls to put something on the line. Thats the fun of this place. These "lets wait and see what happens", "I think the club knows better than you" comments are boring as all s*** and don't create any interesting debate.
I don't stand on any pedestal. Ridiculous statement. Just totally disagree on your views on the Carlisle trade. So don't give me crap about "true supporters", and bowing to clubs decisions all the time. I have only commented on your views about Jake. Simple as that. And yes you are relentless about it.Bluthy wrote:Well firstly we may still have got Gresh with out second rounder - who knows - little mids are not in vogue. And I find it hilarious that you get called "relentless" or "obsessed" just because you are consistent with your views. Unlike so many here I have the balls to put something on the line. Thats the fun of this place. These "lets wait and see what happens", "I think the club knows better than you" comments are boring as all s*** and don't create any interesting debate.
This thread was more about the clubs approach to getting into the trading game with our top picks rather than about Carlisle or Gresh. Its a reasoned argument based on Hawks approach to use all their top picks for their match winners - Roughhead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli. Then trade in to fill gaps particularly the backline. It was a very clever approach. At the moment I think we only have two match winners - Paddy and Billings (Acres is an outside chance). I think we need more.
p.s Yes I really hope Carlisle is a bust then we won't win another flag which will be really great for me. I've got everything crossed we don't win another flag. Thats why I go to the footy and scream myself hoarse (and I'll probably cheer the loudest for Jake). People getting up on their "true supporters" pedestal make me laugh.
Sorry that was a typo on Parish as I meant to write Francis (and I have stated this in the Parish threads/posts) and as I wrote 5 became 6 and 6 was Francis.ace wrote:Pick 5 became pick 6 due to sydney queue jumping to get Callum Mills - correctsaintsRrising wrote:evo wrote:Don't think we had a second round pick in the draft.
We did, till we traded it.
In the deal:
- Essendon received Bird and pick No.5, gave up Carlisle and pick No.44, and exchanged pick No.23 for pick No.24;
- St Kilda received Carlisle and pick No.14 and gave up pick No.5 and pick No.24;
- Sydney Swans received picks No.23 and pick No.44, and gave up pick No.14 and Bird.
Due to bidding pick 5 became pick 6 and pick 24 became pick 29. These were uesed on Parish (Edit: Francis)and Alex Morgan.
At present getting in Carlisle and Gresham is looking to be a lot more valuable than if we had just kept and used the picks directly.
But Essendon had pick 4 that became 5 - they took Darcy Parish with that.
We gave Essendon pick 5 that became 6 - they took Aaron Francis
It is Francis not Parish that we sacrificed to get Gresham.
That's a big call PluggsCon Gorozidis wrote:If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.8856brother wrote:I think Gresh will be better than Francis. Carlisle will be a handy steak knife. In 5-10 years we will all know the answer.
Carlisle better be good. That is all I will say on this.