St Kilda condemns Frawley's joke about Caroline Wilson

[degruch]

I don't really think anyone can defend Ed, no matter what angle, but there's a few here giving it a go which is sad. He thought he'd throw his weight around again and got called out. It's got nothing to do with being PC or a lefty, it's got much more to do with being a disrespectful arsehole. Maybe mods should lock the thread, I'm sure nothing much is going to be added as it dissolves into 'just jokes mate', 'but Caro's an ugly whatever', etc, etc. in an effort to inject more dark humour.

You must be very disappointed, because not one person has made a derogatory comment about Carro, other than a couple not rating her journalism. The argument has developed from whether it was misogyny or just plain bullying of other people... Just in case you missed it which you seem to have. So frustrating when ppl don't have the same point of view isn't it? I mean each thread should be set up so that WE ALL just agree and bag the crap out of someone, some thing. I think it's incredibly sad that ppl like you write sneering, intellectually superior (supposedly) posts looking down on others because they don't agree with you.

You might have missed it, but I never mentioned there were any derogatory comments re: Caro, but they're coming...they always do. If you place such great weight on making counter arguments for arguments sake you're picking on the wrong topic to toy with, because it's pretty hot...no wonder you're paranoid I'm snearing at you.

[felix]

Ok. This is a decisive issue. So can I put it aside for a moment.

Genuine question.

What is the point of Eddie McGuire? Yes he made money and is President of Collingwood. But what is his actual point? Why does he still hold any clout in Melbourne? Why is he even still a 'thing'? Why is he a public figure? What does he actually do? Just a talking head? I am unsure what role he serves.

I think that goes for most commercial. Tv people...gift of the gab ..have a few beers go on teli ..talk shite .aussie Aussie Aussie oink oink oink dick heads love it.

[saintspremiers]

Ok. This is a decisive issue. So can I put it aside for a moment.

Genuine question.

What is the point of Eddie McGuire? Yes he made money and is President of Collingwood. But what is his actual point? Why does he still hold any clout in Melbourne? Why is he even still a 'thing'? Why is he a public figure? What does he actually do? Just a talking head? I am unsure what role he serves.

I think that goes for most commercial. Tv people...gift of the gab ..have a few beers go on teli ..talk shite .aussie Aussie Aussie oink oink oink dick heads love it.

Sounds like a job description for MMM. They feed Eddie's ego enormously

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok. This is a decisive issue. So can I put it aside for a moment.

Genuine question.

What is the point of Eddie McGuire? Yes he made money and is President of Collingwood. But what is his actual point? Why does he still hold any clout in Melbourne? Why is he even still a 'thing'? Why is he a public figure? What does he actually do? Just a talking head? I am unsure what role he serves.

I think that goes for most commercial. Tv people...gift of the gab ..have a few beers go on teli ..talk shite .aussie Aussie Aussie oink oink oink dick heads love it.

Well I guess he got in early on a growing industry. The number of talking heads on tv has grown exponentially in the last two decades. Especially in footy. He got in at the ground level in an industry just before it exploded.

[Bluthy]

Ok. This is a decisive issue. So can I put it aside for a moment.

Genuine question.

What is the point of Eddie McGuire? Yes he made money and is President of Collingwood. But what is his actual point? Why does he still hold any clout in Melbourne? Why is he even still a 'thing'? Why is he a public figure? What does he actually do? Just a talking head? I am unsure what role he serves.

Are you serious Congo? McGuire would be one of the most networked guys in Australia. He's a major power broker in the Australian sporting and business communities. President of Collingwood the biggest sporting club in Australia. WAsn't he like president of the Australian Athletics board or something? He's involved with the booming 20-20 cricket. He was head of Nine network at one point and would have tentacles all through tv and radio networks. He's very close with the Packer clan. Wasn't there talk he would be our President under a republic? He is seriously tapped into the ALP and may well run for Parliament at some point. He would be on many company boards both private and charitable. He is ubiquitous on tv and radio reaching millions across the country and writes newspaper columns. His proposals (such as selling Etihad) go straight to Victorian and Australian ministers for serious consideration. He would have connections with many wealthy people and families in Australia. And he's managed to keep his everyman Eddie from Broadie persona in tact despite being rich and powerful. He's a player basically with a lot of power.

[Dis Believer]

Just Aussie blokes engaging in good light hearted hilarity. At a minority's expense. Nothing to see here. Business as usual. Carry on.

Actually there are more women in Australia than men - can't see how they are a minority. And if you are going to claim women in this country are not empowered I would suggest you go outdoors occasionally.

[CURLY]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

Yeah because they were dead serious. My god the tone of the day of was jovial and taking the piss out of each other. Listening to Caro now on FC it is more than clear she is point scoring.

[maverick]

This thread is clearly no longer about the saints can it be moved to herald sun comments or the general forum, can we stick to footy here.

[Moods]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

Yeah because they were dead serious. My god the tone of the day of was jovial and taking the piss out of each other. Listening to Caro now on FC it is more than clear she is point scoring.

I turned it off. Couldn't bear listening/watching it. I understand she's hurt but surely the issue is bullying, not misogyny???? As for Hutchy carrying on and apologising for not making a bigger deal about it last Monday Spare me, he's only sorry because he failed to read the play and didn't realise that it would become such a huge issue and they didn't have a chance to get on the front foot. I can't help but feel that Caro is being used in all of this. Hell she basically admitted she had brushed it aside until it became a story. Then her editor MADE her write a column on it and now they are talking all about it on FC when last week they couldn't care less about it. They are like vultures the media, if there's a story let's milk it and do whatever we have to to extract what we can. It's hard to take them seriously or really believe what they stand for. they look earnestly into the cameras and deliver their lines, but were they that upset or are they that upset now that they are the centre of the story and people are watching..........

[saintbrat]

No wonder Eddie made a stand up apology late in the day
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/m ... c926c7adfd

HOLDEN will review its sponsorship deal with Collingwood after president Eddie McGuire’s radio attack on female football writer Caroline Wilson.

The automobile giant released a statement late on Monday night declaring it will be meeting with the club to discuss the future of the deal between the two parties.

Collingwood and Holden signed a multi-million dollar deal in 2013 before re-committing to an agreement last year until the end of 2018 that included the renaming of the club’s Melbourne Park precinct headquarters to the Holden Centre.

The sponsorship deal is worth $3 million per year.

[Bluthy]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

3AW made a slightly similar gag and I think if you tracked down all the media around the water slide event, I would be surprised if there weren't similar comments along the "keeping them under" line about many of the people involved. The idea of it is to tap into that Australian Tall Poppy syndrome of seeing some high flyers and people who annoy us on tv getting humiliated, in a fun way, to raise money. It is very easy for that to slide (forgive the pun) into jokes about about keeping them under. MMM definitely had a very dark, sinister tone to their joking that crossed the line in my eyes. I just see that more as something coming through in an unconscious way as it was very easy to make those sort of jokes and their resentment towards Caro leaked out in an inappropriate way.

But it does tap into the bigger picture of violence and intimidation towards women for sure. But this has helped people like Brayshaw and Maguire who were possibly a bit out of touch about their blokiness, be a bit more aware about it. So maybe in the end thats a good thing. I think there is mid point between ignoring it as just joshing and demonising those involved as being deliberately viscous and threatening. Some of those viewpoints come from your own subjectivity towards those involved.

[markp]

Stewart Lee's take... very funny... language warning...!

[st.byron]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

man , woman , irrelevant. Talking about anyone with the vitriol they displayed was just plain disgraceful.

That too. Completely agree.

[st.byron]

Carro has written that it is all about respect.

RESPECT?

This from the woman that day after day, week after week wrote articles criticising this football club and some of our players for their appalling treatment of the vulnerable so called "StKilda schoolgirl".
When it became obvious that it was the behaviour of the "schoolgirl" that was devious and deceitful, did Carro ever apologise for her finger pointing unresearched articles?

We are still waiting Carro.

Well Carro - respect is a two way street!

Completely agree
She's poured shite on our club for years
never apologise's for all the lies she write's
and people on here feel she's been badly done by .

I'm no fan of fat head eddie but it's a bit rich from her to hold the high moral ground on anything !

Who is she going to take a pot shot at tonight when she does her " Caro's arrow " segment on Footy classified .

There's having a crack at a footy club over 'issues' - and then there's making jokes about bombing someone and drowning them whilst deliberately holding their head under. Appalling boys' club ganging up on public radio. Have read the transcript a few times and it gets worse every time. Appalling.

[st.byron]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

Yeah because they were dead serious. My god the tone of the day of was jovial and taking the piss out of each other. Listening to Caro now on FC it is more than clear she is point scoring.

Yep it's a funny topic, drowning someone. They should have made a few rape jokes as well. That would have been a bit of light hearted banter as well.

[degruch]

No wonder Eddie made a stand up apology late in the day
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/m ... c926c7adfd

HOLDEN will review its sponsorship deal with Collingwood after president Eddie McGuire’s radio attack on female football writer Caroline Wilson.

The automobile giant released a statement late on Monday night declaring it will be meeting with the club to discuss the future of the deal between the two parties.

Collingwood and Holden signed a multi-million dollar deal in 2013 before re-committing to an agreement last year until the end of 2018 that included the renaming of the club’s Melbourne Park precinct headquarters to the Holden Centre.

The sponsorship deal is worth $3 million per year.

Ha! Classic...I hope they send in their highest ranking female executive to kick off discussions too.

[Enrico_Misso]

Diary Note : Matt Finnis

Tues 21/6
9am - Ring Holden marketing dept

[desertsaint]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

do you honestly believe their banter in any way makes you view women as somehow deserving of violence? do you in any way think they had violent intent? of course not. no one sane would. humour takes things to ridiculous extremes. that what it is - ridiculous. of course it offends some, but here's the thing - everything offends some. the sydney mardi gra offends many. tough. live with it. they have a right to express themselves. yes they promote a lifestyle many feel abhorrent. deal with it. and deal with this. you don't pick and choose. you don't assume others are not so moral or as smart as you and hence we need to protect society from influencing those people - the ones that aren't you.

[st.byron]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

do you honestly believe their banter in any way makes you view women as somehow deserving of violence? do you in any way think they had violent intent? of course not. no one sane would. humour takes things to ridiculous extremes. that what it is - ridiculous. of course it offends some, but here's the thing - everything offends some. the sydney mardi gra offends many. tough. live with it. they have a right to express themselves. yes they promote a lifestyle many feel abhorrent. deal with it. and deal with this. you don't pick and choose. you don't assume others are not so moral or as smart as you and hence we need to protect society from influencing those people - the ones that aren't you.

Nope, their banter doesn't in any way make me view women as deserving of violence. But the casual attitude to violence is abhorrent. That it's a bunch of men directing it at a woman only reinforces stereotypes about men degrading and abusing women. I take on board some people's points that it's not misogyny, which could be true. But the casual violence, the jock humour and the supreme arrogance of these puffed up self important twats is a very sad reflection on which pictures of masculinity are highly regarded and encouraged in mainstream culture.
Yes I do think they had violent intent. Depends on your definition of violence, but I'd call it violent and abusive to conduct a public boys club description of drowning a specific known person whilst holding their head under.
Jocks, bogans and people who subscribe to that footy show blokeness will carry on thinking it's all in good fun of course. Just the boys having a laugh. It just reflects on how men are socialised and how casual abuse is passed down from male generation to male generation that people think it's ok.
Good to read what you reckon Desertsaint. A few capital letters here and there would make it easier to read.

[whiskers3614]

Diary Note : Matt Finnis

Tues 21/6
9am - Ring Holden marketing dept

and make sure to take Milne to appointment.

[stevie]

Anyone read The Tasteless Gentleman Facebook page daily? I admit I do laugh at a lot of it.

[desertsaint]

How anyone can read that 'banter' and not regard it as ugly and offensive I don't know.

The very epitome of jock boys locker room ignorance for all to see. "The Footy Show' culture.

Not surprising to find people defending it. I notice they're mostly blokes. Yeah it's all just PC crap. She should man up and take it.
I wonder if that kind of 'banter' might in any way reflect a culture that doesn't want to know about domestic violence and abuse. The essence of unhealthy masculinity.

Hilarious to publicly talk about drowning a woman. Bloody Caro. She should just stop challenging the Boys' Club and let their misogyny run free.

do you honestly believe their banter in any way makes you view women as somehow deserving of violence? do you in any way think they had violent intent? of course not. no one sane would. humour takes things to ridiculous extremes. that what it is - ridiculous. of course it offends some, but here's the thing - everything offends some. the sydney mardi gra offends many. tough. live with it. they have a right to express themselves. yes they promote a lifestyle many feel abhorrent. deal with it. and deal with this. you don't pick and choose. you don't assume others are not so moral or as smart as you and hence we need to protect society from influencing those people - the ones that aren't you.

Nope, their banter doesn't in any way make me view women as deserving of violence. But the casual attitude to violence is abhorrent. That it's a bunch of men directing it at a woman only reinforces stereotypes about men degrading and abusing women. I take on board some people's points that it's not misogyny, which could be true. But the casual violence, the jock humour and the supreme arrogance of these puffed up self important twats is a very sad reflection on which pictures of masculinity are highly regarded and encouraged in mainstream culture.
Yes I do think they had violent intent. Depends on your definition of violence, but I'd call it violent and abusive to conduct a public boys club description of drowning a specific known person whilst holding their head under.
Jocks, bogans and people who subscribe to that footy show blokeness will carry on thinking it's all in good fun of course. Just the boys having a laugh. It just reflects on how men are socialised and how casual abuse is passed down from male generation to male generation that people think it's ok.
Good to read what you reckon Desertsaint. A few capital letters here and there would make it easier to read.

i'm rather shy...and lazy
and 'blokes' or 'chicks' talking crap doesn't worry me half as much as self appointed moral guardians determining intent and pushing censorship of others. Once we cross those boundaries were do we stop? we cannot rule on subjectivities. most times base humour is just base humour - and it mocks those telling it as much as those it targets. and here we are mocking a few 'blokes' for their 'blokey' humour. we all get it, it doesn't validate immoral action by us, we know it is absurd and hence can tickle the funny bone at times. it also can serve a purpose - if it offends we can ask why and reflect on the issue and realise the absurdity of it. That's why the best humour is dark and satirical. Nothing is sacrosanct from humour or debate.

[Darth Vader]

Diary Note : Matt Finnis

Tues 21/6
9am - Ring Holden marketing dept

I'm sure they'd welcome Spud with open arms.

[Dis Believer]

I think it's hilarious how many self appointed moral guardians have been shown up on this issue. So many have been so appalled at the "violence" of a joke implying that a disliked "woman" (not a person note, a woman) being drowned. The overwrought reactions because it is a woman reveal your lies - you care not for equality, you see it as a special "crime" because it's a woman, and thus deserving of a special new level of faux outrage. I just about guarantee that had the comment been aimed at Damian Barrett, most have you would have joined in on the "gag". If you were genuinely engaged in the pursuit of equality, as opposed to virtue signalling, the gender of the "victim" would be irrelevant.

For all the references to misogyny, sexism and "blokeness" etc, the majority of the outraged add up to little more than puffed up social justice warriors making sure that your friends notice your high moral fibre. The fact that you unquestioningly gobble up all of the myths and propaganda spewed out by third wave feminist militants without a word of question, and ask for more, makes me sick.

The facts are that in the western world there has never been a more privileged group than the modern middle-class female, they are ahead of males on every key measure you can name:
Homelessness - 80% males
Suicide - 80% males
Violence - 80% male victims
Murder - 70% male victims
Education - 60% of university entrants are female
Health - spending on females is 3 times that on males - more males die of gender specific illness than females
Industrial Accident deaths - 96% males

If any of the outraged bothered to do any of their own research and reading rather than hopping on the latest trendy social media bandwagon, then you might be able to have a proper discussion, rather than regurgitate media driven slogans....

[magnifisaint]

Political correctness is king in this day and age. Everything needs to be scripted. Not sure you can ad-lib anymore for fear of saying something morally wrong. Eddie isn't the first and won't be the last. Obviously has issues with Caro but unfortunately his big mouth got in the way. Everyone should move on.