I'm guessing you've never seen an NFL game.howlinwolf wrote:My observation is that trying to take this game to the world and explain that umpiring is a complete waste of money.
Then explain a player is allowed to just hold the ball in the air for thirty seconds to end the game while watching the scoreboard in a nail biting finish !
What a joke of a game ours actually is.
It'll never fly on the world stage.
Observations
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- kosifantutti
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8582
- Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
- Location: Back in town
- Has thanked: 527 times
- Been thanked: 1532 times
Re: Observations
Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
- Sainter_Dad
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6338
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 1123 times
Re: Observations
6 Frees to North in the last - surprise surprise - 3 to the Saintssaint6709 wrote:Thanks !Sainter_Dad wrote:Wait until the replay is up on AFL and then go to the last 1/4 and select Frees. There is a little F at the time period of each Freesaint6709 wrote:Tony can you please track down the free kick count for the last qtrtony74 wrote:Players.... Devastated,totally spent, sore
Richo...... Class act, coach for the next 6 years
Umpires...... We need to be good enough to take decisions and luck out of the equation.
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
- Linton Lodger
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2467
- Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
- Has thanked: 86 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
Re: Observations
Hickey had the better of Goldstein, no doubt about that.magnifisaint wrote:Who the hell is he?realdeal wrote:Is Ben Guthrie serious here.. He makes out like Nth won by 40 points. And if he thinks Goldstein dominated Hickey then I was watching a different game..
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-05-08/pet ... he-spoils-
At worse, Hickey broke even. Goldstein certainly wasn't dominant
- Linton Lodger
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2467
- Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
- Has thanked: 86 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
Re: Observations
Regardless of free kick stats, regardless of whether or not the free against Hickey was technically there. You just don't give technical, soft free kicks in those circumstances. Disgraceful & incompetent umpiring! Who is the umpires coach, there's a sacking that should occur.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Mon 20 Jul 2015 6:19pm
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 14 times
Development looks well on track
The momentum of positive development just keeps trucking along. I had a very interrupted view of the tv screen in the midst of Mother's Day socialising. However the snatched glimpses of the Saints in action was encouraging. The very end of the game with the North player simply holding the ball above his head didn't look good for the game/ brains trust problem.
- magnifisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8134
- Joined: Sun 02 May 2004 2:52am
- Has thanked: 227 times
- Been thanked: 608 times
Re: Observations
I thought the last one was dodgy too. He hardly had time to get rid of it and the umpire jumped on himSainter_Dad wrote:6 Frees to North in the last - surprise surprise - 3 to the Saintssaint6709 wrote:Thanks !Sainter_Dad wrote:Wait until the replay is up on AFL and then go to the last 1/4 and select Frees. There is a little F at the time period of each Freesaint6709 wrote:Tony can you please track down the free kick count for the last qtrtony74 wrote:Players.... Devastated,totally spent, sore
Richo...... Class act, coach for the next 6 years
Umpires...... We need to be good enough to take decisions and luck out of the equation.
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Observations
Concussion in his hamstring?????elizabethr wrote:Tony74. ..can you please tell me what happened to Armitage tonight?
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2190
- Joined: Sun 28 Mar 2004 1:59pm
- Location: by the seaside..
- Has thanked: 36 times
- Been thanked: 187 times
Re: Observations
whilst its disappointing to lose another close one, this season is panning out the way I thought it might. I still think we will finish slightly ahead of last year in the win column (7-8 wins), but increasing the number of games where we are still a chance deep into the last quarter that I was hoping we would improve - and we have. Next year we will be good enough to win a number of those close ones as our under 23's get another year under their belt and we should be good enough to finish with enough wins to be in the mix for a finals berth. I really hope we can snag a classy mid with our first round pick to add some polish to what is a very hard working team.
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton
- magnifisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8134
- Joined: Sun 02 May 2004 2:52am
- Has thanked: 227 times
- Been thanked: 608 times
Re: Observations
Nah a pain in the hamstringstonecold wrote:Concussion in his hamstring?????elizabethr wrote:Tony74. ..can you please tell me what happened to Armitage tonight?
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23134
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 9076 times
- Been thanked: 3939 times
Re: Observations
Well we won our first last quarter for the year.
Dunstan came of age.
Roo confirmed his place as one of the greatest, if not greatest saint of all.
Some saintsational posters even managed to praise Gears.
Sammy Gilbert was BOG.
Richmond, Adelaide, West Coast, Freemantle, Collingwood and Essendon all lost.
All good things.
Dunstan came of age.
Roo confirmed his place as one of the greatest, if not greatest saint of all.
Some saintsational posters even managed to praise Gears.
Sammy Gilbert was BOG.
Richmond, Adelaide, West Coast, Freemantle, Collingwood and Essendon all lost.
All good things.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2927
- Joined: Mon 28 Apr 2008 4:56pm
- Location: victoria
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 121 times
Re: Observations
Linton Lodger wrote:Hickey had the better of Goldstein, no doubt about that.magnifisaint wrote:Who the hell is he?realdeal wrote:Is Ben Guthrie serious here.. He makes out like Nth won by 40 points. And if he thinks Goldstein dominated Hickey then I was watching a different game..
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-05-08/pet ... he-spoils-
At worse, Hickey broke even. Goldstein certainly wasn't dominant
If that is what Ben Guthrie saw.I must have been watching a different game
- Sainter_Dad
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6338
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 1123 times
Re: Observations
bergsone wrote:Linton Lodger wrote:Hickey had the better of Goldstein, no doubt about that.magnifisaint wrote:Who the hell is he?realdeal wrote:Is Ben Guthrie serious here.. He makes out like Nth won by 40 points. And if he thinks Goldstein dominated Hickey then I was watching a different game..
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-05-08/pet ... he-spoils-
At worse, Hickey broke even. Goldstein certainly wasn't dominant
If that is what Ben Guthrie saw.I must have been watching a different game
I is confused - it hurts my brain!!!!Ben Guthrie wrote:
Talking Point 1 - Although his impact on the game was minimal
Talking Point 3 - asserted his influence around the ground with 35 hit-outs and had particular impact in the third term as the Roos tried to take the contest away from the dogged Saints
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5109
- Joined: Wed 04 Aug 2004 3:18pm
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Observations
One of the papers used to give a break down of the frees ie back, mid, forward.Sainter_Dad wrote:6 Frees to North in the last - surprise surprise - 3 to the Saintssaint6709 wrote:Thanks !Sainter_Dad wrote:Wait until the replay is up on AFL and then go to the last 1/4 and select Frees. There is a little F at the time period of each Freesaint6709 wrote:Tony can you please track down the free kick count for the last qtrtony74 wrote:Players.... Devastated,totally spent, sore
Richo...... Class act, coach for the next 6 years
Umpires...... We need to be good enough to take decisions and luck out of the equation.
I do have a theory though that the umpires do even up, they will pay free instead of awarding the mark etc so even though a team has won the ball they will call a free kick. I also would like to know how many times they call advantage, because that means that technically they pay a free, but the team have the ball already so the free means nothing, but it helps even up the numbers. I actually think if they want to be transparent why not show the break up of frees ie. advantage, mid, back, forward . After all there are stats for every player and every player is open to criticism or accolades based on these stats. Why not umpires , or do they have something to hide.
and hickey had 4frees against and 1 for, goldy none against 3 for. he is very disciplined isnt he.....
- Dis Believer
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5095
- Joined: Sun 28 Mar 2004 1:42pm
- Location: The terraces at Moorabbin, in the pouring rain.......
- Has thanked: 286 times
- Been thanked: 279 times
Re: Observations
One thing that perturbs me in relation to free kicks is the consistency with which we seem to be on the wrong end of the questionable ones, both those paid against us and those not paid to us.
Bear with me here, but this extends (I believe) over a fairly long period, under a great deal of different circumstances.
It is now the 2016 season, and we seem to have been on the wrong end of umpiring consistently since at least 2006. In that time we have had 4 coaches, been at the top, middle and bottom of the ladder, and turned over almost the entire playing list.
It defies belief (and statistical probablility) that through all of that change that the only constant could be that we were consistently teaching or executing skills so poorly as to warrant being the worst (or close to the worst) team in the league for free kick differential.
Are we executiong tackles worse than every other team? Are we failling to tackle enough? Are we too slow to dispose of the ball compared to every one else? Does no-one else ever tackle our players incorrectly, get caught holding the ball or infringe our players in a marking contest?
I would love if someone who knows how could show the free kick differential for all teams for the past ten years because I would love to see the stats. It defies belief that through all the personnel changes, coaching changes, gameplan changes and different performance levels indicated by our ladder position, we could constantly infringe more than our opponents most weeks, but that is exactly how it feels to me, and I know we have fared poorly in recent years.
Bear with me here, but this extends (I believe) over a fairly long period, under a great deal of different circumstances.
It is now the 2016 season, and we seem to have been on the wrong end of umpiring consistently since at least 2006. In that time we have had 4 coaches, been at the top, middle and bottom of the ladder, and turned over almost the entire playing list.
It defies belief (and statistical probablility) that through all of that change that the only constant could be that we were consistently teaching or executing skills so poorly as to warrant being the worst (or close to the worst) team in the league for free kick differential.
Are we executiong tackles worse than every other team? Are we failling to tackle enough? Are we too slow to dispose of the ball compared to every one else? Does no-one else ever tackle our players incorrectly, get caught holding the ball or infringe our players in a marking contest?
I would love if someone who knows how could show the free kick differential for all teams for the past ten years because I would love to see the stats. It defies belief that through all the personnel changes, coaching changes, gameplan changes and different performance levels indicated by our ladder position, we could constantly infringe more than our opponents most weeks, but that is exactly how it feels to me, and I know we have fared poorly in recent years.
The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
- Mr Magic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12792
- Joined: Fri 04 May 2007 9:38am
- Has thanked: 802 times
- Been thanked: 428 times
Re: Observations
I can recall at least 2 marks taken by us that were paid as free kicks - one in the first quarter when Tarrant cannoned into Roo from the front.mullet wrote:
I do have a theory though that the umpires do even up, they will pay free instead of awarding the mark etc so even though a team has won the ball they will call a free kick.
At the time I thought it should have been a 50m penalty. I reckon in Soccer Tarrant would have been 'booked' for a 'professional foul'.
Incidentally, did anyone else think that NM were very 'physical' against Roo and our other players in marking contests?
Alost like it was a 'directive' fro their coaching staff.
- Mr Magic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12792
- Joined: Fri 04 May 2007 9:38am
- Has thanked: 802 times
- Been thanked: 428 times
Re: Observations
Another observation re the coaching of Richardson & his team.
I was absolutely gobsmacked to see on a umber of occasions in the second half that we went into a centre bounce with our most inexperienced lineups.
I was absolutely gobsmacked to see on a umber of occasions in the second half that we went into a centre bounce with our most inexperienced lineups.
- Sainter_Dad
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6338
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 1123 times
Re: Observations
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that the advantage call nullifies the free kick, so it is not recorded as being paid.mullet wrote: I also would like to know how many times they call advantage, because that means that technically they pay a free, but the team have the ball already so the free means nothing
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
- Bernard Shakey
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11240
- Joined: Sun 18 Mar 2007 11:22pm
- Location: Down By The River 1989, 2003, 2009 & 2013
- Has thanked: 126 times
- Been thanked: 137 times
Re: Observations
Exactly what I was going to say!kosifantutti wrote:I'm guessing you've never seen an NFL game.howlinwolf wrote:My observation is that trying to take this game to the world and explain that umpiring is a complete waste of money.
Then explain a player is allowed to just hold the ball in the air for thirty seconds to end the game while watching the scoreboard in a nail biting finish !
What a joke of a game ours actually is.
It'll never fly on the world stage.
Old enough to repaint, but young enough to sell
- snoopygirl
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3589
- Joined: Tue 18 May 2004 11:56am
- Location: Cranbourne East
Re: Observations
I remember several years ago True Believer, that the club were conscious of the amount of free kicks being paid against us primarily for "in the back" decisions so worked extremely hard to change the way we tackled players so that we fell to the side of the player when dragging the player down. It appears we are still doing this so whilst we are not getting pinged for it, we're also not getting paid any free kicks for it either when the opposition tackle us.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5109
- Joined: Wed 04 Aug 2004 3:18pm
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Observations
What I'm trying to explain (probably badly sorry) is that when a team is streaming down the ground quickly doing a string of handballs you will hear the umpire call advantage, the team has the ball and is off, and the ball is moving fast so it could actually be 2 handballs previous and their is a call of "advantage" play doesnt stop. Is this recorded as a free kick??? Gawd not sure I explained it any better.Sainter_Dad wrote:Correct me if I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that the advantage call nullifies the free kick, so it is not recorded as being paid.mullet wrote: I also would like to know how many times they call advantage, because that means that technically they pay a free, but the team have the ball already so the free means nothing
- Sainter_Dad
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6338
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 1123 times
Re: Observations
I do not believe that under the situation that you have just described, that a free kick would be registered. Essentially, I was under the impression, that free kicks only count if they 'stop' or 'reverse' the play.mullet wrote:What I'm trying to explain (probably badly sorry) is that when a team is streaming down the ground quickly doing a string of handballs you will hear the umpire call advantage, the team has the ball and is off, and the ball is moving fast so it could actually be 2 handballs previous and their is a call of "advantage" play doesnt stop. Is this recorded as a free kick??? Gawd not sure I explained it any better.Sainter_Dad wrote:Correct me if I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that the advantage call nullifies the free kick, so it is not recorded as being paid.mullet wrote: I also would like to know how many times they call advantage, because that means that technically they pay a free, but the team have the ball already so the free means nothing
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
- howlinwolf
- Club Player
- Posts: 1359
- Joined: Tue 27 May 2008 8:51pm
- Location: Sittin' On Top Of the World
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 29 times
Re: Observations
Yes, Kosi, correct. I've never seen a full NFL game because it is a rubbish format.kosifantutti wrote:I'm guessing you've never seen an NFL game.howlinwolf wrote:My observation is that trying to take this game to the world and explain that umpiring is a complete waste of money.
Then explain a player is allowed to just hold the ball in the air for thirty seconds to end the game while watching the scoreboard in a nail biting finish !
What a joke of a game ours actually is.
It'll never fly on the world stage.
Doesn't have the credibility like the world game globally.
It is loved by a parochial following just like our game.
Robert Harvey's last home game. 24 Aug 2008
StKilda 13.17 def Adelaide 6.11
StKilda 13.17 def Adelaide 6.11
- kosifantutti
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8582
- Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
- Location: Back in town
- Has thanked: 527 times
- Been thanked: 1532 times
Re: Observations
There are many many people around the world who follow NFL. The AFL can only dream of that type of global support.
Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Sat 06 Oct 2007 2:42pm
- Has thanked: 240 times
- Been thanked: 382 times
Re: Observations
I've thought that too. Must have some bearing.markp wrote:While we're trotting out our theories, my longstanding one is that there is often an unconscious bias towards teams that are expected to win.