Gresham

[Con Gorozidis]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

[dragit]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

[Devilhead]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

[dragit]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

[borderbarry]

I thought we might have seen a bit of Tom Lee in the NAB Cup.
I like what I have seen of Gresham so far. He will be a good player for us.

[longtimesaint]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.k

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

I am sure that they all get feedback on what they need to do to improve.
It's then up to the player to perform well at VFL to get an opportunity.
No one gets gifted games and it super competitive.

[Bluthy]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

I'm not going to pretend Richo won't have his biases. Its another overused cliche but people in footy are in the opinion business. There is never a "right" decision. Richo will tend to have a leaning to players that he had a hand in a recruiting because:

a) they were picked to fit in with his game plan (which I think is good kicking, creative and explosive)
b) he gets them as raw clay and can begin moulding them when they are most malleable and
c) the young kids now come into a great tailored development environment with lots of players their age to bond with and work together and develop quickly

Guys like Minch, Curren, Saunders, Sippos, White, Saad etc I think were in a poor development environment and got a bit lost in the system during a crucial period of their early development. Lyon by all accounts just wasn't the development type coach focusing on his top 24 and Watters was all over the shop. A kid of 18 is basically a boy and they are thrown up against hardened men coming into the VFL/AFL system. Its easy for them to lose confidence and direction unless they have a clear plan, good feedback and even a dad type coach to put their arm around them sometimes and say "Hey little Johnny, you seem a bit down but don't give up, you're doing ok, you dust yourself off and dive back into it tomorrow, I believe in you" ruffle their hair and give them a wink. Kids need that.

This is the same for all coaches. Players on the fringe when a new coach comes in have a really tough task. Every year talented kids pour in. Minch and Curren's problem is do we need another sub 180 player when Lonie, Steven, Sinclair and Gresham are looking like stand outs? Saunders from the get go I don't know where he plays. Lee I think will get a good go at AFL this year. Its a long season for young players, we will get injuries and if you are doing well in the VFL, like Minch did last year, I think you'll get a crack at the big show.

Last year Richo apparently spoke to every player on the list after selection so I think they know where they stand with good feedback. They keep a careful eye on the VFL so its not like they are playing in a vacuum like they would have under Lyon.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

Really worst over the last 15 years. Must have fluked tbe most wins by any team between 2003 and 2012, 5 PF's and 3 GF's.
You are correct, Melbourne, Richmond and Essendon have done much better over the past 15 years than us.

[dragit]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

Really worst over the last 15 years. Must have fluked tbe most wins by any team between 2003 and 2012, 5 PF's and 3 GF's.
You are correct, Melbourne, Richmond and Essendon have done much better over the past 15 years than us.

I would take any clubs 2003 - 2012 drafts over ours…

The finals were on the back of players drafted before this time.

[mightysainters]

Like the look of this kid. He was 1 of 3 who had the perfect score in the combine for skills. He moves well and is an elite kick which is what we need.

Apart from the need of a big bodied midfielder (which hopefully we draft this year) he is a very good pick up.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

Really worst over the last 15 years. Must have fluked tbe most wins by any team between 2003 and 2012, 5 PF's and 3 GF's.
You are correct, Melbourne, Richmond and Essendon have done much better over the past 15 years than us.

I would take any clubs 2003 - 2012 drafts over ours…

The finals were on the back of players drafted before this time.

Not what you said. You are patently wrong that we were the worst over the past 15 years.

Just admit it. Hysterical falsehoods makes your credibility look a bit dodgy.

[dragit]

I have noticed some doubts about Richo creeping in. I am not 100% convinced his judgments and assessments on players are all perfect.....

I just don't understand why we recontract players that the coach has no intention of playing...

Markworth last year, Minch, Saunders & 2 years for Lee who can't get a sniff?

Its fair enough to make calls on players, but someone should pass on the memo to the list manager.

There will always be players that we will need to contract who are on the fringe

Remember that we must delist a minimum amount of players per year - If we delist them all at once then we would be in a position where we might have to delist a decent player we might want to keep - its about managing the list and I am sure they know what they doing in terms of planning ahead

I thought this is quite obvious

What is obvious is that we have had the worst recruiting, development and list management of any club over the past 15 years… so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their recent decisions.

At any rate, I am more talking about the coach ruling a line through players names early on and not giving them much of chance to make the grade. If we re-contract a player, the coach should be doing everything he can to help that player improve and get into the side… I don't think this has been the case… some guys feel like they have no chance of playing seniors and don't know where they need to improve to change this.

Really worst over the last 15 years. Must have fluked tbe most wins by any team between 2003 and 2012, 5 PF's and 3 GF's.
You are correct, Melbourne, Richmond and Essendon have done much better over the past 15 years than us.

I would take any clubs 2003 - 2012 drafts over ours…

The finals were on the back of players drafted before this time.

Not what you said. You are patently wrong that we were the worst over the past 15 years.

Just admit it. Hysterical falsehoods makes your credibility look a bit dodgy.

Our recruiting and development has been terrible…

Only an idiot would argue otherwise… so give it your best.

[amusingname]

So all the necessary development of Roo, Montagna, Dal Santo, Ball, Kosi, Goddard was done in their first year or two?
Also, the Melbourne and Carlton recruiting was better than getting players like Fisher, Gwilt, Dempster, Steven, Armitage, Gardiner, Schnieder into the club?

Peoples view of this time is really coloured by not winning a flag (somewhat understandably, as that is the goal), however lets be somewhat rational here, we were a very good team who developed a lot of very good players.

[Bunk_Moreland]

So all the necessary development of Roo, Montagna, Dal Santo, Ball, Kosi, Goddard was done in their first year or two?
Also, the Melbourne and Carlton recruiting was better than getting players like Fisher, Gwilt, Dempster, Steven, Armitage, Gardiner, Schnieder into the club?

Peoples view of this time is really coloured by not winning a flag (somewhat understandably, as that is the goal), however lets be somewhat rational here, we were a very good team who developed a lot of very good players.

No dragit has proclaimed anybody that doesn't adhere to his hysterical rubbish an idiot. You must be one.

Also Richmond, Melbourne, Essendon and a number of other clubs had better recruiting over the past 15 years but never managed a PF let alone a GF.

Somehow Saints with their pathetic recruiting and list management managed 5 PF's and 3 GF's. Wow what absolute luck.

Face it dragit, you have been caught out and amusingname has driven a truck through the holes in your silly emotional argument. My facts of our success doesn't really help your argument either.

Who is an idiot?

[dragit]

So all the necessary development of Roo, Montagna, Dal Santo, Ball, Kosi, Goddard was done in their first year or two?
Also, the Melbourne and Carlton recruiting was better than getting players like Fisher, Gwilt, Dempster, Steven, Armitage, Gardiner, Schnieder into the club?

Peoples view of this time is really coloured by not winning a flag (somewhat understandably, as that is the goal), however lets be somewhat rational here, we were a very good team who developed a lot of very good players.

No dragit has proclaimed anybody that doesn't adhere to his hysterical rubbish an idiot. You must be one.

Also Richmond, Melbourne, Essendon and a number of other clubs had better recruiting over the past 15 years but never managed a PF let alone a GF.

Somehow Saints with their pathetic recruiting and list management managed 5 PF's and 3 GF's. Wow what absolute luck.

Face it dragit, you have been caught out and amusingname has driven a truck through the holes in your silly emotional argument. My facts of our success doesn't really help your argument either.

Who is an idiot?

Just some downright bad luck that we picked up our 27th wooden spoon recently after all that brilliant recruiting and development…

Thank goodness for all those first round masterstrokes in the form of Raph Clarke, McQualter, Watts, McEvoy, Lynch, Lovett, Cripps, Ross, Hickey, Lee… & now a guy who is banned for a year and makes social media posts about doing drugs.

Just kick back and watch the flags roll in…

[amusingname]

You could also list Beau Dowler, Harry Miller, Matthew Little, Mitch Thorp, Sam Grimley as evidence of Hawthorn's recruitment being awful, whatever suits the contention.

[dragit]

You could also list Beau Dowler, Harry Miller, Matthew Little, Mitch Thorp, Sam Grimley as evidence of Hawthorn's recruitment being awful, whatever suits the contention.

True, they've had their share of ordinary picks too.

I guess if we were looking at our fifth flag in 9 years then I would be less concerned about our core depth and future…

Alas we are down the bottom and half of our best dozen players are over 30.

[Goose is king]

Gresham is miles ahead of Templeton. There is no reason he can't play round 1. Hopefully he can come in and contribute like Lewis Taylor did for Brisbane.

[skeptic]

Concerns of how we develop the players on our list have been around since the early Lyon years. They were to a degree swept under the carpet during the 09-10, with many being quite happy to swallow line that we consistently played several under-performing players because they helped us "now"...

Meanwhile, many (not all) of the our recruits from that era got limited time and opportunities, and were heavily trashed when they weren't good right away.

People look back at that era and say "oh how terrible was our recruiting" but I personally never felt that a professional organisation so consistently wrong...
After all, with a few exceptions, by and large we drafted players that went around where they were meant to go in the draft any way... But ppl seem comfortable with the idea that with 30 odd picks over the Lyon/Watters eras that we only managed to draft a handful of decent players.

[BigMart]

Our recruiting and development between 2003-2012 DISGUSTING!!!

Our trading was not too bad.

I'd love to list the entire list of players we've selected from 03-12
Our strike rate
Abysmal

Trading
Yes, Dempster, Gardiner, King, Schneider, Peake and a few others have been good

[dragit]

Marto and I are tight on this one…

Let's hope Gresham turns into the pick #5 level that we would have apparently taken him with… he looks good early.

You'd think he'll play plenty of seniors this year… there's plenty of room in our midfield.

[Bluthy]

Gresham is miles ahead of Templeton. There is no reason he can't play round 1. Hopefully he can come in and contribute like Lewis Taylor did for Brisbane.

Er I don't know, maybe because Gresham can only play half a game at at the moment. Him and Holmesy were used as subs after half-time. Sure lets throw him in against one of the hardest running teams in the comp who will know we are underdone and will try to run us off our legs when they are desperate to get off to a good start to atone for last year in the most hostile territory for oppo in the country. Lets try and burn the kid out in Round 1.

VFL BEST: Lee, Goddard, Longer, Curren, Templeton.
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2016-03-1 ... ire-in-vfl

[BigMart]

After the first few rounds in 2014 Templeton was ahead of others
Last year it was Sinclair

Doesn't take much to suggest does it???

Gresham will play in 2016 ... A lot... But has a lot of development to go yet.

Lonie, White, McKenzie

Of course Billings

IMO are going to be great players

The others haven't shown enough yet to suggest either way... Including Paddy, Hugh, Acres, Dunstan, Gresham, Rice

Then why White? McKenzie??

They have done things in games that I've seen that only high end raw talent can do
Either winning the ball or using the ball
And they don't even have AFL bodies yet

Because I saw him

[BigMart]

Ignore last bit

[Myron Gaines]

Our recruiting and development between 2003-2012 DISGUSTING!!!

Our trading was not too bad.

I'd love to list the entire list of players we've selected from 03-12
Our strike rate
Abysmal

Trading
Yes, Dempster, Gardiner, King, Schneider, Peake and a few others have been good

Spot on.

We were a very good side however that was as a result of too few that were either recruited in the early noughties or traded in.

What cost us arguably flags was lack of depth mainly attributed to recruitment & development over a decade.