Jake Carlisle
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- perfectionist
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9022
- Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 3:06pm
- Has thanked: 60 times
- Been thanked: 347 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.
Re: Jake Carlisle
Further to my earlier post, I am confident that whoever goes at pick 5 will be a better player than Carlisle. Mathieson sounds like a taller version of Joel Sellwood. Francis sounds like BJ 2.0 and Parish sounds like an elite line breaking mid with skills. I see JC as a possible bonus if we can get away with it, but we are still very early in our rebuild and can't afford to blow a top 5 pick on a 24 year old, unless it is Dangerfield or Fyfe. Someone mentioned the Trent Croad deal that Freo did. I see parallels if we don't hold our nerve until the very end of trade week.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Nat Fyfe was pick 20, every club in the comp would give pick 1 this year and next to secure him.samuraisaint wrote:Carlisle was picked at #24. They are not getting him for #5. End of.
We will end up with him anyway, and probably Freeman by the sounds of it.
Re: Jake Carlisle
Ned Stark wrote:Further to my earlier post, I am confident that whoever goes at pick 5 will be a better player than Carlisle. Mathieson sounds like a taller version of Joel Sellwood. Francis sounds like BJ 2.0 and Parish sounds like an elite line breaking mid with skills. I see JC as a possible bonus if we can get away with it, but we are still very early in our rebuild and can't afford to blow a top 5 pick on a 24 year old, unless it is Dangerfield or Fyfe. Someone mentioned the Trent Croad deal that Freo did. I see parallels if we don't hold our nerve until the very end of trade week.
If it is pick 5 we will get something back but there is nothing wrong with using pick 5 on a 24 year old. Still could play for nearly 10 years. Most pick 5's probably don't get near ten years.
- White Winmar
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5014
- Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2009 10:02pm
Re: Jake Carlisle
Good post, Ned. We need to take a medium to long term view with this. I believe we should be going hard on the Carlisle deal, but we can afford to, as it appears we hold all the cards. I think Carlisle would be a great acquisition and a necessary part of our rebuild, especially with Fischer and Dempster nearing the end. The Croad example serves a timely warning of how the high-priced recruit strategy can backfire. It was exciting for the shockers when the deal was done, but big Trent never settled there, didn't deliver on his enormous promise, and eventually found his way home to win a premiership.Ned Stark wrote:Further to my earlier post, I am confident that whoever goes at pick 5 will be a better player than Carlisle. Mathieson sounds like a taller version of Joel Sellwood. Francis sounds like BJ 2.0 and Parish sounds like an elite line breaking mid with skills. I see JC as a possible bonus if we can get away with it, but we are still very early in our rebuild and can't afford to blow a top 5 pick on a 24 year old, unless it is Dangerfield or Fyfe. Someone mentioned the Trent Croad deal that Freo did. I see parallels if we don't hold our nerve until the very end of trade week.
Pick five must be seen as a priority and a crucial part of our overall list management strategy. We can't afford to give it away for anything less than a truly elite player, someone who has the potential to be a "franchise" type. Neither Carlisle, nor Freeman is that sort of player. They both have the potential to be very good and are therefore required, but for pick five we would want someone like Treloar. In any event, I like the way we are building. It's shades of 2003, when we were on the cusp of an era that could've, and should've delivered multiple premierships. I've seen 12 Hawthorn premierships. I only need to see one for my beloved saints. Surely, that's not too much to ask, is it?
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
- samuraisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5870
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
- Location: M32
- Has thanked: 837 times
- Been thanked: 785 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
The last 6 rounds showed that we desperately need another key backman. Those games also exposed us for pace. We probably would've beaten Geelong easily if we had one more key backman and a midfielder capable of breaking liners and delivering with accuracy into our forward line. As it was we only got a draw and five losses, three of them by huge margins, to show for our 'efforts'.
Carlisle only just turned 24 BTW. He will be 24 for the entire 2016 season. Of course, it would be best if we can hold onto our first draft pick, but if we are going to make a play for Freeman as well, and possibly Bailey Rice, I can't see it, much as I would prefer it.
Carlisle only just turned 24 BTW. He will be 24 for the entire 2016 season. Of course, it would be best if we can hold onto our first draft pick, but if we are going to make a play for Freeman as well, and possibly Bailey Rice, I can't see it, much as I would prefer it.
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1860
- Joined: Thu 01 May 2008 6:30pm
- Location: Mentone
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 263 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
I think this has already been done before Carlisle nominated the Saints.saintspremiers wrote:I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.
One year will be our year
- samuraisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5870
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
- Location: M32
- Has thanked: 837 times
- Been thanked: 785 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
The WADA investigation is pretty obviously what makes this trade a massive gamble, as nobody knows what evidence they may have - or not have, as the case may be. One thing is for sure though, if that investigation wasn't happening, we wouldn't be in a position to get him at all, so ...saintspremiers wrote:I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
Re: Jake Carlisle
Have you seen a lot of him Perfectionist? I must admit I haven't. If you say his kicking is poor it worries me.perfectionist wrote:Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.
You can see what he is capable of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g8yWdsZT3Y. His kicking looks pretty good there without being startling but of course that doesn't show the screw ups. His marking looks fantastic - thats been a real change in good backlines over the last decade - being able to intercept mark and turn defense into attack. He seems pretty composed when it hits the deck. The s*** going down at Dons has taken a huge toll on all the players so you would expect a drop in performance this year plus the ball going into the dons back half a hella lot. He'd be a big step up from Delaney and you could see him being a good double act with Goddard but I'm just not sure if it justifies the loss of pick 5. We may not get a pick that high for quite a while and its a chance to get an elite talent. The draft is a lotto but one you can win huge from if you get it right.
Re: Jake Carlisle
perfectionist wrote:Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.
There are certainly players from our club who would get a game at the Hawks and Carlisle is a pretty good kick. And you can only get what is available. Try being a little positive. If we get the 2 players we want and keep pick 5 its an excellent trading period.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 784
- Joined: Tue 13 Sep 2011 7:36pm
- Has thanked: 40 times
- Been thanked: 340 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Bluthy wrote:Have you seen a lot of him Perfectionist? I must admit I haven't. If you say his kicking is poor it worries me.perfectionist wrote:Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.
You can see what he is capable of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g8yWdsZT3Y. His kicking looks pretty good there without being startling but of course that doesn't show the screw ups. His marking looks fantastic - thats been a real change in good backlines over the last decade - being able to intercept mark and turn defense into attack. He seems pretty composed when it hits the deck. The s*** going down at Dons has taken a huge toll on all the players so you would expect a drop in performance this year plus the ball going into the dons back half a hella lot. He'd be a big step up from Delaney and you could see him being a good double act with Goddard but I'm just not sure if it justifies the loss of pick 5. We may not get a pick that high for quite a while and its a chance to get an elite talent. The draft is a lotto but one you can win huge from if you get it right.
This is ok too if we want to swing him forward from time to time.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6582
- Joined: Sat 11 Jun 2011 4:52pm
- Location: Here
- Has thanked: 1275 times
- Been thanked: 463 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
That will give us 3 tall swingmen in Bruce, Goddard & Carlisle. Maybe we should have tried White at full back for a 4th.jaxons wrote:Bluthy wrote:Have you seen a lot of him Perfectionist? I must admit I haven't. If you say his kicking is poor it worries me.perfectionist wrote:Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.
You can see what he is capable of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g8yWdsZT3Y. His kicking looks pretty good there without being startling but of course that doesn't show the screw ups. His marking looks fantastic - thats been a real change in good backlines over the last decade - being able to intercept mark and turn defense into attack. He seems pretty composed when it hits the deck. The s*** going down at Dons has taken a huge toll on all the players so you would expect a drop in performance this year plus the ball going into the dons back half a hella lot. He'd be a big step up from Delaney and you could see him being a good double act with Goddard but I'm just not sure if it justifies the loss of pick 5. We may not get a pick that high for quite a while and its a chance to get an elite talent. The draft is a lotto but one you can win huge from if you get it right.
This is ok too if we want to swing him forward from time to time.
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Richo was a coach at EFC with Carlisle...and one of our other coaches coached him in the U18s and so we have two of our coaches with first hand knowledge of Carlisle.saintspremiers wrote:I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Sun 11 Oct 2015 10:24pm, edited 2 times in total.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- Wrote for Luck
- Club Player
- Posts: 1519
- Joined: Thu 07 Jan 2010 8:33am
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Jake Carlisle
Tom Lee is a swinger too. And even Mitch Brown if we were to pick him up.
Jake will look good in a Saints jumper. For me being the club of choice is now very exciting. Wonder how this makes Brendan Goddard feel?
Jake will look good in a Saints jumper. For me being the club of choice is now very exciting. Wonder how this makes Brendan Goddard feel?
Pills 'n' Thrills and Heartaches
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 329
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 8:27pm
- Location: WA
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Couldn't care less what Brendan Goddard felt.millarsaint wrote:Tom Lee is a swinger too. And even Mitch Brown if we were to pick him up.
Jake will look good in a Saints jumper. For me being the club of choice is now very exciting. Wonder how this makes Brendan Goddard feel?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
That's handy. The info I heard may be a new development - not too sure. Anyway can't go into on here but was from a good source and I'd hope our club is aware of it (if true)saintsRrising wrote:Richo wasa coach at EFC with Carlisle...and one of our othe coaches coached him in the U18s and so we have two of our coaches with first hand knowledge of Carlisle.saintspremiers wrote:I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16885
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3580 times
- Been thanked: 2844 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
saintspremiers wrote:That's handy. The info I heard may be a new development - not too sure. Anyway can't go into on here but was from a good source and I'd hope our club is aware of it (if true)saintsRrising wrote:Richo wasa coach at EFC with Carlisle...and one of our othe coaches coached him in the U18s and so we have two of our coaches with first hand knowledge of Carlisle.saintspremiers wrote:I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.
I like u SP but what a pointless post... U have news that may not be true but u cant share.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
we will noyt give up 5 without something coming back our way to ensure the deal is better our way that is according to those with club connections on BFsamuraisaint wrote:The last 6 rounds showed that we desperately need another key backman. Those games also exposed us for pace. We probably would've beaten Geelong easily if we had one more key backman and a midfielder capable of breaking liners and delivering with accuracy into our forward line. As it was we only got a draw and five losses, three of them by huge margins, to show for our 'efforts'.
Carlisle only just turned 24 BTW. He will be 24 for the entire 2016 season. Of course, it would be best if we can hold onto our first draft pick, but if we are going to make a play for Freeman as well, and possibly Bailey Rice, I can't see it, much as I would prefer it.
Pies apparently being reasonable with Freeman and Rice is 3rd rounder so not related
Pick 5 is prime we may not have a pick like this for a little while so better not burn it...
“Yeah….nah””
- asiu
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
- Has thanked: 1327 times
- Been thanked: 932 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
... can't see us 'burning' this years pick 5
nor nexts years pick 5.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
(gone early !!!) lol
Discuss.
nor nexts years pick 5.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
(gone early !!!) lol
Discuss.
![Image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iUpoNBZyaBc/R0zVk-1LCZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/9eeT7D6cnaA/s320/compass-blu-265x220.gif)
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1701
- Joined: Fri 18 May 2007 11:13am
- Been thanked: 7 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
I'm starting to ponder wether Carltank and the dopers have done a brown paper bag deal. If dildo does has he states and refuses a downgraded first round pick, then they know we will pass. Thus will allow Carlton to nab him in the pre season but I would expect the blues would do another trade very favorable to Carltank. I did read somewhere that Carltank weregetting four players for one round two draft pick from SOS 's old club.... They may have colluded they have in the past
Or dildos a complete idiot and is just grand standing.
Or dildos a complete idiot and is just grand standing.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1701
- Joined: Fri 18 May 2007 11:13am
- Been thanked: 7 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
I'm starting to ponder wether Carltank and the dopers have done a brown paper bag deal. If dildo does has he states and refuses a downgraded first round pick, then they know we will pass. Thus will allow Carlton to nab him in the pre season but I would expect the blues would do another trade very favorable to Carltank. I did read somewhere that Carltank weregetting four players for one round two draft pick from SOS 's old club.... They may have colluded they have in the past
Or dildos a complete idiot and is just grand standing.
Or dildos a complete idiot and is just grand standing.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 7:42pm
- Been thanked: 2 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Suggested deal to get Carlisle & Freeman over the line.
* Saints pick five to the Bombers for Carlisle and pick 23
* Pick 23 to Collingwood for Freeman
Wash up is Saints get two players for its pick 5 and keep pick 24 for a selection or for use in another trade. Essendon gets another early pick and Collingwood gets fair compensation for Freeman.
* Saints pick five to the Bombers for Carlisle and pick 23
* Pick 23 to Collingwood for Freeman
Wash up is Saints get two players for its pick 5 and keep pick 24 for a selection or for use in another trade. Essendon gets another early pick and Collingwood gets fair compensation for Freeman.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2523
- Joined: Mon 27 Jun 2005 1:27pm
- Location: Abiding
- Has thanked: 171 times
- Been thanked: 375 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Some here seem to be completely besotted with the green grass that is represented by Carlisle and Freeman
For mine there are so many warning bells with Carlisle
Yes he is big
His disposal efficiency in 2015 was just over 70, compared that to Geary at 77, doesn't that worry you. Don't we want players who can hit targets out of defence?
How many good games has he actually played, games that he taken by the scruff and helped turn, I would say somewhere around 8!!
His body language, is this what we really want at the saints. He never ever seems to be enjoying the game, whether forward or back. Does he look like he inspires?
I may and I am happy to be proven wrong , but I see warning bell after warning bell
For mine there are so many warning bells with Carlisle
Yes he is big
His disposal efficiency in 2015 was just over 70, compared that to Geary at 77, doesn't that worry you. Don't we want players who can hit targets out of defence?
How many good games has he actually played, games that he taken by the scruff and helped turn, I would say somewhere around 8!!
His body language, is this what we really want at the saints. He never ever seems to be enjoying the game, whether forward or back. Does he look like he inspires?
I may and I am happy to be proven wrong , but I see warning bell after warning bell
" A few will never give up on you. When you go back out on the field, those are the people I want in your minds. Those are the people I want in your hearts."
— Coach Eric Taylor - Friday Night Lights
— Coach Eric Taylor - Friday Night Lights
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
Re: Jake Carlisle
Add the WADA bell to that!terry smith rules wrote:Some here seem to be completely besotted with the green grass that is represented by Carlisle and Freeman
For mine there are so many warning bells with Carlisle
Yes he is big
His disposal efficiency in 2015 was just over 70, compared that to Geary at 77, doesn't that worry you. Don't we want players who can hit targets out of defence?
How many good games has he actually played, games that he taken by the scruff and helped turn, I would say somewhere around 8!!
His body language, is this what we really want at the saints. He never ever seems to be enjoying the game, whether forward or back. Does he look like he inspires?
I may and I am happy to be proven wrong , but I see warning bell after warning bell
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!