Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23098
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 9036 times
- Been thanked: 3929 times
Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
I see where Carlton stalwart , Alex Marcou reckons that disastrous recruiting has been at the core of Carlton's problems, and that there recruiting hasbeen shocking for the best part of ten years. He reckons that they have never had the right guy in charge . He then goes on to name a decade of top 25 draft busts. Hugh Goddard being overlooked for another dud named Blaine Boekhorst also gets a prominent mention.
Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.
Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?
Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.
Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Hughes role at St Kilda is very different to his role at Carlton. His role at the Saints is to focus on AFL listed players for trade and free agency purposes whereas he was mainly looking at underage talent at Carlton. Much easier role at St Kilda in theory as AFL listed players are a known quantity in most cases.
"I'm a better coach when Nick Riewoldt is in the side" - Ross Lyon 2007
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Cannot believe Wayne Hughes despite the different role was ever considered based on Carlton's recruiting performance.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23098
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 9036 times
- Been thanked: 3929 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Well, we can always be thankful for little mercies.
some of the guys Hughes recruited were Bower, Hampson, Grigg, Lucas, Watson and Bootsma.
Some real champions there. Not.
some of the guys Hughes recruited were Bower, Hampson, Grigg, Lucas, Watson and Bootsma.
Some real champions there. Not.
- WinnersOnly
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 10:24pm
- Location: Canberra
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!
SAINTS another day older another day closer to the Holy Grail!
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Tue 16 Mar 2004 2:04pm
- Been thanked: 113 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Good to see we are not overreacting to a rumour or anything.WinnersOnly wrote:You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Raised a lot of eyebrows on here. Smells like 'a job for a mate' arrangement and I dont like it one bit.saynta wrote:I see where Carlton stalwart , Alex Marcou reckons that disastrous recruiting has been at the core of Carlton's problems, and that there recruiting hasbeen shocking for the best part of ten years. He reckons that they have never had the right guy in charge . He then goes on to name a decade of top 25 draft busts. Hugh Goddard being overlooked for another dud named Blaine Boekhorst also gets a prominent mention.
Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.
Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?
Of course some of the posters who think every single thing the club do is right (despite one flag in 120 years) did their usual 'what would you know' spiel.
But this appointment is a shocker. Carlton's recruitment is demonstrably WORSE than a dart board. This guy is simply indefensible.
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Hard to not give a +1 to that. Spot on.Con Gorozidis wrote:Raised a lot of eyebrows on here. Smells like 'a job for a mate' arrangement and I dont like it one bit.saynta wrote:I see where Carlton stalwart , Alex Marcou reckons that disastrous recruiting has been at the core of Carlton's problems, and that there recruiting hasbeen shocking for the best part of ten years. He reckons that they have never had the right guy in charge . He then goes on to name a decade of top 25 draft busts. Hugh Goddard being overlooked for another dud named Blaine Boekhorst also gets a prominent mention.
Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.
Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?
Of course some of the posters who think every single thing the club do is right (despite one flag in 120 years) did their usual 'what would you know' spiel.
But this appointment is a shocker. Carlton's recruitment is demonstrably WORSE than a dart board. This guy is simply indefensible.
If the selection criteria was that you had to be able to demonstrate a complete lack of skill in recruiting then I could better understand the decision.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
What are you talking about? Bennell is 22 with 79 AFL games to his name. Has already proven he can dominate top sides at AFL level. How in gods name is that comparable to anything Carlton have done in the last decade?WinnersOnly wrote:You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!
Seriously back up your claim with some kind of analysis?
Ill give you a start :
Carltank Recruitment
2008
Pick 24 - Robbie Warnock - big dud.
PIck 6 - Chris Yarran - 24yo - 108 games - just ok but may be a gun in a better side - down in the dumps this year - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... ris-YARRAN
2009 -
pick 11 - Brock Mclean - injured in 07 and 08. Did nothing. Was already washed up by injury by 2010.
pick 12 - Kane Lucas aged 24. 42 games. Not AFl standard http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Kane-LUCAS
2010 -
Andrew Collins - 36 games. Retired.
Pick 18 - Matthew Watson - 23yo - 20 games - done nothing ever - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... hew-WATSON
Pick 34 - Patrick McCarthy - 1 AFL game - delisted.
2011
PIck 22 - Josh Bootsma - need I go on? - 14 games - retired.
Father Son - Dylan Buckley - 24 games - 22yo - very ordinary career so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... an-BUCKLEY
2012
Pick 11- Troy Menzel - 37 games - 20yo - ordinary so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... roy-MENZEL
Pick 35 Tom Temay - 0 games - 21 yo - retired.
2013
PIck 13 - Patrick Cripps - 20yo - 20 games - gun
Pick 33 - Sam Docherty - 21 yo - 46 games - seems pretty good
So which one of those recruitments is similar to Harley Bennell? I cant see any even close.
- Austinnn
- Club Player
- Posts: 1533
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun 2011 6:02pm
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 2 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
I thought this appointment was a rare mistake from the Saints, and I don't get it. Everyone knows Carlton recruited poorly, why would we touch anyone from that group of incompetents?
Still, we'll have to give them benefit of the doubt until after we see some of his action. Not going to hang him yet!
He's just one part of the team, so I hope they can all do a decent job without the Pelican.
Still, we'll have to give them benefit of the doubt until after we see some of his action. Not going to hang him yet!
He's just one part of the team, so I hope they can all do a decent job without the Pelican.
Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------
You'll Never Walk Alone
------------------------------------------------
You'll Never Walk Alone
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Sun 27 Jan 2008 9:05am
- Has thanked: 769 times
- Been thanked: 207 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Bit harsh on Troy Menzel there Con.
I reckon he is pure class
I reckon he is pure class
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Fri 14 Jun 2013 6:38pm
- Location: Ferretville
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 20 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Its not 'what'' you know, its more 'who' you know.Con Gorozidis wrote:
Raised a lot of eyebrows on here. Smells like 'a job for a mate' arrangement and I dont like it one bit.
Of course some of the posters who think every single thing the club do is right (despite one flag in 120 years) did their usual 'what would you know' spiel.
But this appointment is a shocker. Carlton's recruitment is demonstrably WORSE than a dart board. This guy is simply indefensible.
Always best to have someone beneath you who poses no threat to your job, easier to control things that way.
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Is Hughes the one we have to thank for recruiting Luke Livingston?
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9124
- Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
- Location: A distant beach
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 436 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
We have a history of doing dumb things off the field as a club, and it is one of the reasons we have had little success, and are a financial basket-case. The only hope for success is to recruit the right talent and develop it within our means. I would always hope those employed in an off field role, will have had some proven degree of success. Not sure what the strengths of Mr Hughes are, but I hope the Carlton role is not an indicator.
- WinnersOnly
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 10:24pm
- Location: Canberra
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Was a bit harsh with this sorry. No evidence to bag Hughes other than his recruiting record - hopefully the club gets this one right!WinnersOnly wrote:You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!
SAINTS another day older another day closer to the Holy Grail!
- prwilkinson
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Tue 21 Sep 2010 12:17pm
- Has thanked: 67 times
- Been thanked: 132 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
I hope we don't pull the trigger at the trade table this summer... We're still a season or two away from topping up the list.
- sasaint
- Club Player
- Posts: 825
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 6:36pm
- Location: Castlemaine
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Agree. We should only trade for bargains (like Bruce) not chase and over pay for potential stars at this stage. We have an even chance of picking up a really A class recruit like Parish or Francis with our first round who will nicely fill a key role in our team. No point in selling the farm yet.prwilkinson wrote:I hope we don't pull the trigger at the trade table this summer... We're still a season or two away from topping up the list.
Patience young grasshopper
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Menzel will be a very good player. He will be a grade.Con Gorozidis wrote:What are you talking about? Bennell is 22 with 79 AFL games to his name. Has already proven he can dominate top sides at AFL level. How in gods name is that comparable to anything Carlton have done in the last decade?WinnersOnly wrote:You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!
Seriously back up your claim with some kind of analysis?
Ill give you a start :
Carltank Recruitment
2008
Pick 24 - Robbie Warnock - big dud.
PIck 6 - Chris Yarran - 24yo - 108 games - just ok but may be a gun in a better side - down in the dumps this year - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... ris-YARRAN
2009 -
pick 11 - Brock Mclean - injured in 07 and 08. Did nothing. Was already washed up by injury by 2010.
pick 12 - Kane Lucas aged 24. 42 games. Not AFl standard http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Kane-LUCAS
2010 -
Andrew Collins - 36 games. Retired.
Pick 18 - Matthew Watson - 23yo - 20 games - done nothing ever - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... hew-WATSON
Pick 34 - Patrick McCarthy - 1 AFL game - delisted.
2011
PIck 22 - Josh Bootsma - need I go on? - 14 games - retired.
Father Son - Dylan Buckley - 24 games - 22yo - very ordinary career so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... an-BUCKLEY
2012
Pick 11- Troy Menzel - 37 games - 20yo - ordinary so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... roy-MENZEL
Pick 35 Tom Temay - 0 games - 21 yo - retired.
2013
PIck 13 - Patrick Cripps - 20yo - 20 games - gun
Pick 33 - Sam Docherty - 21 yo - 46 games - seems pretty good
So which one of those recruitments is similar to Harley Bennell? I cant see any even close.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
spert wrote:We have a history of doing dumb things off the field as a club, and it is one of the reasons we have had little success, and are a financial basket-case. The only hope for success is to recruit the right talent and develop it within our means. I would always hope those employed in an off field role, will have had some proven degree of success. Not sure what the strengths of Mr Hughes are, but I hope the Carlton role is not an indicator.
I think his contacts with in the industry probably got him his job at the Saints. He will know all the player managers and talent spotters and have a network already. Your contact list can be worth more than your talent at times.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23098
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 9036 times
- Been thanked: 3929 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Is that why Carlton dropped him for lack of effort and are looking to offload him?gringo wrote:Menzel will be a very good player. He will be a grade.Con Gorozidis wrote:What are you talking about? Bennell is 22 with 79 AFL games to his name. Has already proven he can dominate top sides at AFL level. How in gods name is that comparable to anything Carlton have done in the last decade?WinnersOnly wrote:You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!
Seriously back up your claim with some kind of analysis?
Ill give you a start :
Carltank Recruitment
2008
Pick 24 - Robbie Warnock - big dud.
PIck 6 - Chris Yarran - 24yo - 108 games - just ok but may be a gun in a better side - down in the dumps this year - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... ris-YARRAN
2009 -
pick 11 - Brock Mclean - injured in 07 and 08. Did nothing. Was already washed up by injury by 2010.
pick 12 - Kane Lucas aged 24. 42 games. Not AFl standard http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Kane-LUCAS
2010 -
Andrew Collins - 36 games. Retired.
Pick 18 - Matthew Watson - 23yo - 20 games - done nothing ever - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... hew-WATSON
Pick 34 - Patrick McCarthy - 1 AFL game - delisted.
2011
PIck 22 - Josh Bootsma - need I go on? - 14 games - retired.
Father Son - Dylan Buckley - 24 games - 22yo - very ordinary career so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... an-BUCKLEY
2012
Pick 11- Troy Menzel - 37 games - 20yo - ordinary so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... roy-MENZEL
Pick 35 Tom Temay - 0 games - 21 yo - retired.
2013
PIck 13 - Patrick Cripps - 20yo - 20 games - gun
Pick 33 - Sam Docherty - 21 yo - 46 games - seems pretty good
So which one of those recruitments is similar to Harley Bennell? I cant see any even close.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23098
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 9036 times
- Been thanked: 3929 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Well, lets hope he has something to offer. His record states that certainly doesn't have the talent to spot talented footballers.gringo wrote:spert wrote:We have a history of doing dumb things off the field as a club, and it is one of the reasons we have had little success, and are a financial basket-case. The only hope for success is to recruit the right talent and develop it within our means. I would always hope those employed in an off field role, will have had some proven degree of success. Not sure what the strengths of Mr Hughes are, but I hope the Carlton role is not an indicator.
I think his contacts with in the industry probably got him his job at the Saints. He will know all the player managers and talent spotters and have a network already. Your contact list can be worth more than your talent at times.
- Junction Oval
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2867
- Joined: Tue 30 Nov 2010 11:16am
- Been thanked: 19 times
Re: Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
You build a Club with first-rate people, not those with a known poor record. A very disconcerting appointment by the Club.
Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda
Every time I think about this bloke getting a gig at our footy club I shake my head. He's the worst recruiter in the business. No doubt he would love to trade pick 6 for Carlisle.