So, where are we at?
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- samuraisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5873
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
- Location: M32
- Has thanked: 837 times
- Been thanked: 785 times
So, where are we at?
We have improved on the last two years and are well along on our way to a rebuild. But in so far as actually pressing for finals, or even seriously contending in the top 4, how far away are we?
Well, we know that we're better than the bottom four sides, although we may actually finish bottom four, courtesy of two losses by a kick.
But we are also a ten goals worse side than the Hawks, Eagles, Port and Collingwood.
We also rely way too much on our veterans, Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster, for my liking.
I like the game plan, which when it is on, we are an irrepressible attacking force, but wonder what will happen when Roo, Montagna and Dempster retire. Will the young stars present and still to be recruited, be able to press for a GF without our 2009/10 heroes?
Or will their retirements just be a speed hump which can be negotiated through free agency?
Well, we know that we're better than the bottom four sides, although we may actually finish bottom four, courtesy of two losses by a kick.
But we are also a ten goals worse side than the Hawks, Eagles, Port and Collingwood.
We also rely way too much on our veterans, Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster, for my liking.
I like the game plan, which when it is on, we are an irrepressible attacking force, but wonder what will happen when Roo, Montagna and Dempster retire. Will the young stars present and still to be recruited, be able to press for a GF without our 2009/10 heroes?
Or will their retirements just be a speed hump which can be negotiated through free agency?
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: So, where are we at?
I think its obvioussamuraisaint wrote:We have improved on the last two years and are well along on our way to a rebuild. But in so far as actually pressing for finals, or even seriously contending in the top 4, how far away are we?
Well, we know that we're better than the bottom four sides, although we may actually finish bottom four, courtesy of two losses by a kick.
But we are also a ten goals worse side than the Hawks, Eagles, Port and Collingwood.
We also rely way too much on our veterans, Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster, for my liking.
I like the game plan, which when it is on, we are an irrepressible attacking force, but wonder what will happen when Roo, Montagna and Dempster retire. Will the young stars present and still to be recruited, be able to press for a GF without our 2009/10 heroes?
Or will their retirements just be a speed hump which can be negotiated through free agency?
We are so reliant on ageing players still - these guys are of such quality that right now we don't have replacements of their level on the list
Midfield has the makings of solid foundationn but lacks class and genuine line breaking/goal scoring prowess.
Probable 2-3 Agraders short for mine.
“Yeah….nah””
- samuraisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5873
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
- Location: M32
- Has thanked: 837 times
- Been thanked: 785 times
Re: So, where are we at?
It was obvious today that without Joey we wouldn't have had any scoring potency at all. It would also be fair to say that Dempster was our best defender again, although lots to like about Goddard.
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: So, where are we at?
True, when you throw in Fishers played some decent footy for us this year too we have some holes to fill.samuraisaint wrote:It was obvious today that without Joey we wouldn't have had any scoring potency at all. It would also be fair to say that Dempster was our best defender again, although lots to like about Goddard.
The hard part if filling them with equal talent
“Yeah….nah””
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2203
- Joined: Wed 19 Aug 2009 10:32pm
- Location: Del Mar, California
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: So, where are we at?
I don't think wer're 10 goals worse than Collingwood, and probably not 10 goals behind Port.samuraisaint wrote:We have improved on the last two years and are well along on our way to a rebuild. But in so far as actually pressing for finals, or even seriously contending in the top 4, how far away are we?
Well, we know that we're better than the bottom four sides, although we may actually finish bottom four, courtesy of two losses by a kick.
But we are also a ten goals worse side than the Hawks, Eagles, Port and Collingwood.
We also rely way too much on our veterans, Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster, for my liking.
I like the game plan, which when it is on, we are an irrepressible attacking force, but wonder what will happen when Roo, Montagna and Dempster retire. Will the young stars present and still to be recruited, be able to press for a GF without our 2009/10 heroes?
Or will their retirements just be a speed hump which can be negotiated through free agency?
- The Fireman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13245
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
- Has thanked: 644 times
- Been thanked: 1908 times
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Tue 10 Jul 2007 11:14am
- Location: Bentleigh East
- Has thanked: 266 times
- Been thanked: 574 times
Re: So, where are we at?
Talent-wise, we're not that far way. Skills need vast improvement, but that will come as the team gains experience.
The biggest hole we have to fill right now is the leadership hole. In four of the five games Riewoldt hasn't played we've had no leadership whatsoever. Against Collingwood, Carlton, West Coast and Port we have failed to apply the pressure and commitment we usually do under Nick.
While Geary tries hard, he's not captain material. Not even close. Nor is Armitage.
Riewoldt obviously leaves a huge hole in terms of talent when not playing, but the leadership void is twice as big. Until we find a way to fill that, we won't be pressing for finals.
The biggest hole we have to fill right now is the leadership hole. In four of the five games Riewoldt hasn't played we've had no leadership whatsoever. Against Collingwood, Carlton, West Coast and Port we have failed to apply the pressure and commitment we usually do under Nick.
While Geary tries hard, he's not captain material. Not even close. Nor is Armitage.
Riewoldt obviously leaves a huge hole in terms of talent when not playing, but the leadership void is twice as big. Until we find a way to fill that, we won't be pressing for finals.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9069
- Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
- Location: A distant beach
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 426 times
Re: So, where are we at?
Well on recent form of both teams, we were not 10 goals worse than PA. I have to point the finger at the coach to some degree as I thought yesterday's effort was sub par. The forward structure was confusing and undisciplined and the midfield work was just not good enough, let alone the general skills of the team. IMO Richo is a good developer and teacher of players, but is not the best match day coach tactically. Other than that we need to keep recruiting quality players.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: So, where are we at?
Don't stress too much. We tanked yesterday's game at the selection table, which is fine at times.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3856
- Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 2:41pm
- Has thanked: 419 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: So, where are we at?
I agree that Roo seems irreplaceable and that we need to keep developing leaders, but I disagree with your view on Armo.Beno88 wrote:Talent-wise, we're not that far way. Skills need vast improvement, but that will come as the team gains experience.
The biggest hole we have to fill right now is the leadership hole. In four of the five games Riewoldt hasn't played we've had no leadership whatsoever. Against Collingwood, Carlton, West Coast and Port we have failed to apply the pressure and commitment we usually do under Nick.
While Geary tries hard, he's not captain material. Not even close. Nor is Armitage.
Riewoldt obviously leaves a huge hole in terms of talent when not playing, but the leadership void is twice as big. Until we find a way to fill that, we won't be pressing for finals.
I think he has grown as a leader enormously this year, and I really can see him as the next captain of the club. It would be interesting to know how the players see him in that role.
Always loyal
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: So, where are we at?
No!! The club must win EVERY game ... lolsaintspremiers wrote:Don't stress too much. We tanked yesterday's game at the selection table, which is fine at times.
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4655
- Joined: Sun 18 Jun 2006 2:04pm
- Location: Melb
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: So, where are we at?
I think going on our past two seasons recruiting,we were nearly halfway through the rebuild at seasons start. However it seems highly unlikely we will have 3 top 22 picks this year now unless we pull off some miracles at trading time, and we've had an extraordinarily good run with injuries allowing us to play near full strength, giving us an unexpected rise up the ladder. I think we might need another three good drafting years yet. Free agents and traded young guns,think we are way down the pecking order for club of choice.
It is so much harder now
Our disposal is horrid, this can only improve by recruiting elite mids, it's going to be a slow process,especially if the club decide to try and fix the problems down back with there high picks before taking mids,lets hope not....
It is so much harder now
Our disposal is horrid, this can only improve by recruiting elite mids, it's going to be a slow process,especially if the club decide to try and fix the problems down back with there high picks before taking mids,lets hope not....
Bring back the Lockett era
- St Chris
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2153
- Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006 2:20pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: So, where are we at?
I think the Bulldogs are showing the way of how to bounce into contention.
They've had a poor finish to last year, which has lead to an excellent draw in 2015, and are now making hay while the sun shines. They will probably crash back to Earth with a tougher draw in 2016, but ultimately will still improve given their list profile. They will probably finish 6th and win a final this year, but are still a few years away from being a genuine top 4 team.
I'd think we'll make a good run in 2016 but finish just outside the 8, then I'd expect our first finals run with this generation will come in 2017 and will be a strong one with a good draw (maybe top 4, without being a genuine contender), then the following few years will be taking one step back before taking 2 steps forward as we climb into our genuine "premiership window".
They've had a poor finish to last year, which has lead to an excellent draw in 2015, and are now making hay while the sun shines. They will probably crash back to Earth with a tougher draw in 2016, but ultimately will still improve given their list profile. They will probably finish 6th and win a final this year, but are still a few years away from being a genuine top 4 team.
I'd think we'll make a good run in 2016 but finish just outside the 8, then I'd expect our first finals run with this generation will come in 2017 and will be a strong one with a good draw (maybe top 4, without being a genuine contender), then the following few years will be taking one step back before taking 2 steps forward as we climb into our genuine "premiership window".
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2131
- Joined: Fri 22 Jul 2005 9:27am
- Location: Rockville
- Has thanked: 567 times
- Been thanked: 178 times
Re: So, where are we at?
The club has said that we won't be in the top half until 2018-2020 so that's another three years of development ahead. On the plus side, all of our current youngsters will have another 50+ games under their belt. On the minus side, Roo, Joey and Fisher won't be around and will leave a massive hole.
Whether the kids will be able to replace the losses remains to be seen. Hopefully shrewd drafting, trading and free agent poaching will see us improve.
This year is about what I expected - to win more games than last year and get out of the bottom three. Hopefully we'll achieve that again next year.
Whether the kids will be able to replace the losses remains to be seen. Hopefully shrewd drafting, trading and free agent poaching will see us improve.
This year is about what I expected - to win more games than last year and get out of the bottom three. Hopefully we'll achieve that again next year.
Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one.
Re: So, where are we at?
St Chris wrote:I think the Bulldogs are showing the way of how to bounce into contention.
They've had a poor finish to last year, which has lead to an excellent draw in 2015, and are now making hay while the sun shines. They will probably crash back to Earth with a tougher draw in 2016, but ultimately will still improve given their list profile. They will probably finish 6th and win a final this year, but are still a few years away from being a genuine top 4 team.
I'd think we'll make a good run in 2016 but finish just outside the 8, then I'd expect our first finals run with this generation will come in 2017 and will be a strong one with a good draw (maybe top 4, without being a genuine contender), then the following few years will be taking one step back before taking 2 steps forward as we climb into our genuine "premiership window".
I hope you are right but I cant see 2017 being better than 2016 and I cant see that being much better than this year which I got completely wrong by the way. The worry in 2017 is we are unlikely to have Roo, Joey or Dempster on top of Schneider and Fisher at the end of this year. Means we need some of the young ones to be as good as they are now just to hold our position.
- matrix
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 21475
- Joined: Mon 21 May 2007 1:55pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: So, where are we at?
for over 31 years old dempster is doing a great job
could easily go two more imo
depends on what niggles he plays thru already i guess
but if the guys body is fine now then i see no reason for him to stop
unless he gets bored
he;s one of those its a job type players from interviews ive seen
could easily go two more imo
depends on what niggles he plays thru already i guess
but if the guys body is fine now then i see no reason for him to stop
unless he gets bored
he;s one of those its a job type players from interviews ive seen
- St Chris
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2153
- Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006 2:20pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: So, where are we at?
Agree, but I reckon the Doggies would have said the same about Lake, Griffen etc. Maybe not once in a generation like Roo, but vital cogs in their best side at the time they left.plugger66 wrote:St Chris wrote:I think the Bulldogs are showing the way of how to bounce into contention.
They've had a poor finish to last year, which has lead to an excellent draw in 2015, and are now making hay while the sun shines. They will probably crash back to Earth with a tougher draw in 2016, but ultimately will still improve given their list profile. They will probably finish 6th and win a final this year, but are still a few years away from being a genuine top 4 team.
I'd think we'll make a good run in 2016 but finish just outside the 8, then I'd expect our first finals run with this generation will come in 2017 and will be a strong one with a good draw (maybe top 4, without being a genuine contender), then the following few years will be taking one step back before taking 2 steps forward as we climb into our genuine "premiership window".
I hope you are right but I cant see 2017 being better than 2016 and I cant see that being much better than this year which I got completely wrong by the way. The worry in 2017 is we are unlikely to have Roo, Joey or Dempster on top of Schneider and Fisher at the end of this year. Means we need some of the young ones to be as good as they are now just to hold our position.
I stand by my theory that our meteoric rise in 2009 came in part because of younger players' (Joey, Goddard, Lenny) desire to step up after Harvey's retirement. I hold hope we can see the same when our "Golden Generation" moves on. We've seen that already with Armo's 2015 season, I'd love to see the like of Newnes, Bruce, Roberton, Longer just really take off with the extra responsibility.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Re: So, where are we at?
I reckon Bruce, Roberton and Newnes are close to the mark already. I think we need more from the next tier down. If we can make guys like Lonie, Webster, Longer, Eli, Paddy and Hugh stars we will be a very good side. Getting something from some of the VFL guys would be nice too.St Chris wrote:Agree, but I reckon the Doggies would have said the same about Lake, Griffen etc. Maybe not once in a generation like Roo, but vital cogs in their best side at the time they left.plugger66 wrote:St Chris wrote:I think the Bulldogs are showing the way of how to bounce into contention.
They've had a poor finish to last year, which has lead to an excellent draw in 2015, and are now making hay while the sun shines. They will probably crash back to Earth with a tougher draw in 2016, but ultimately will still improve given their list profile. They will probably finish 6th and win a final this year, but are still a few years away from being a genuine top 4 team.
I'd think we'll make a good run in 2016 but finish just outside the 8, then I'd expect our first finals run with this generation will come in 2017 and will be a strong one with a good draw (maybe top 4, without being a genuine contender), then the following few years will be taking one step back before taking 2 steps forward as we climb into our genuine "premiership window".
I hope you are right but I cant see 2017 being better than 2016 and I cant see that being much better than this year which I got completely wrong by the way. The worry in 2017 is we are unlikely to have Roo, Joey or Dempster on top of Schneider and Fisher at the end of this year. Means we need some of the young ones to be as good as they are now just to hold our position.
I stand by my theory that our meteoric rise in 2009 came in part because of younger players' (Joey, Goddard, Lenny) desire to step up after Harvey's retirement. I hold hope we can see the same when our "Golden Generation" moves on. We've seen that already with Armo's 2015 season, I'd love to see the like of Newnes, Bruce, Roberton, Longer just really take off with the extra responsibility.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: So, where are we at?
Point well made.We need to bear in mind that at one stage Joey and Roo were young unknowns. Joey and BJ in particular took a while to develop. At that state we were probably all worrying how the heck we were ever going to replace G-Train and Banger.St Chris wrote: Agree, but I reckon the Doggies would have said the same about Lake, Griffen etc. Maybe not once in a generation like Roo, but vital cogs in their best side at the time they left.
I stand by my theory that our meteoric rise in 2009 came in part because of younger players' (Joey, Goddard, Lenny) desire to step up after Harvey's retirement. I hold hope we can see the same when our "Golden Generation" moves on. We've seen that already with Armo's 2015 season, I'd love to see the like of Newnes, Bruce, Roberton, Longer just really take off with the extra responsibility.
Re: So, where are we at?
I really want the old boys to leave for more draft picks even though I love them because without Roo & Montagna & Armo we are still wooden spooners and they are all older.
Re: So, where are we at?
Locals322 wrote:I really want the old boys to leave for more draft picks even though I love them because without Roo & Montagna & Armo we are still wooden spooners and they are all older.
I don't get what you mean. We have plenty of picks without the old guys leaving. And if Roo leave we might get pick 80. That is unlikely to help.
- wolfpup
- Club Player
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Thu 06 May 2004 6:00pm
- Location: Port Melbourne
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: So, where are we at?
i agree, i expect us to make our climb next year coming close to playing finals with 2017 onwards being our launching point for 2017 to 2022 potential success. I still have high hopes for the saunders/wright/murdoch/white batch of recruits to come good (especially murdoch).St Chris wrote:I think the Bulldogs are showing the way of how to bounce into contention.
They've had a poor finish to last year, which has lead to an excellent draw in 2015, and are now making hay while the sun shines. They will probably crash back to Earth with a tougher draw in 2016, but ultimately will still improve given their list profile. They will probably finish 6th and win a final this year, but are still a few years away from being a genuine top 4 team.
I'd think we'll make a good run in 2016 but finish just outside the 8, then I'd expect our first finals run with this generation will come in 2017 and will be a strong one with a good draw (maybe top 4, without being a genuine contender), then the following few years will be taking one step back before taking 2 steps forward as we climb into our genuine "premiership window".
richo seemed annoyed in yesterdays members only post game video thingy, stated that he will select players who will tackle, apply pressure, seemed annoyed by port having 70 more possessions and 10 more tackles
-----------
St.Kilda Forever!
St.Kilda Forever!
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2203
- Joined: Wed 19 Aug 2009 10:32pm
- Location: Del Mar, California
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: So, where are we at?
This may be the best season of his career. I wonder how he's going in the B&F?matrix wrote:for over 31 years old dempster is doing a great job
could easily go two more imo
depends on what niggles he plays thru already i guess
but if the guys body is fine now then i see no reason for him to stop
unless he gets bored
he;s one of those its a job type players from interviews ive seen
- samuraisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5873
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
- Location: M32
- Has thanked: 837 times
- Been thanked: 785 times
Re: So, where are we at?
Toy Saint wrote:I don't think wer're 10 goals worse than Collingwood, and probably not 10 goals behind Port.samuraisaint wrote:We have improved on the last two years and are well along on our way to a rebuild. But in so far as actually pressing for finals, or even seriously contending in the top 4, how far away are we?
Well, we know that we're better than the bottom four sides, although we may actually finish bottom four, courtesy of two losses by a kick.
But we are also a ten goals worse side than the Hawks, Eagles, Port and Collingwood.
We also rely way too much on our veterans, Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster, for my liking.
I like the game plan, which when it is on, we are an irrepressible attacking force, but wonder what will happen when Roo, Montagna and Dempster retire. Will the young stars present and still to be recruited, be able to press for a GF without our 2009/10 heroes?
Or will their retirements just be a speed hump which can be negotiated through free agency?
Well, based on results, we are. But we've improved on last years showings against these sides, albeit not by much. I hoped that in the last 6 rounds we would avoid blowouts, but I can see a few looming, now that we've had one already. Out of all six final games, this Sunday against Freo was the one I has a glimmer of hope in, as this is a fixture we have traditionally won, but Freo seem to have become pressure hardened and I think a win is very unlikely this season. I think we are highly likely to finish 4th last this year, given that Melbourne and Essendon have far easier draws in the weeks ahead.
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.