Looking at the current AFL Ladder......

[plugger66]

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Can you explain your statement that you want to win like everyone else?

Sure.
I want St Kilda to win every game but logic and the draft and the salary cap say that is not possible. It is all about working the system to your advantage. We need at least another 3 elite midfielders in order to seriously challenge from 2018 onwards. To get them we need 3 more top 5 draft picks to have the best chance of getting them. If that means losing to Melb next week then so be it.

Well im confused. It was a perfect result but you want to win. You want to lose next week but you want to win. Confusing.

[Austinnn]

Don't get sucked in again Plugger. Leave the tankers to their turmoil and focus on the better threads

This is just pollution.

[citywest]

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Can you explain your statement that you want to win like everyone else?

Sure.
I want St Kilda to win every game but logic and the draft and the salary cap say that is not possible. It is all about working the system to your advantage. We need at least another 3 elite midfielders in order to seriously challenge from 2018 onwards. To get them we need 3 more top 5 draft picks to have the best chance of getting them. If that means losing to Melb next week then so be it.

Well im confused. It was a perfect result but you want to win. You want to lose next week but you want to win. Confusing.

Not confusing at all actually. I want St Kilda to win every week but because I have been a Saints fan (earliest memory is the 1971 Grand Final) all my life. But I know that because of the system the next 2 years are critical that we get the elite talent in because from 2018 - 2026 (just like from 2004 to 2012) we won't be getting too many more high draft picks.

[Teflon]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

[saintspremiers]

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Most of us stick to one.

Hit. Nail. Head.

[plugger66]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

I want them to win now and long term. Not one person has come up with proof that you shouldn't want both. We are a bottom side anyway. I want to win the games we possibly can because there are many games left we probably cant win so not caring doesn't cut it with me. I also have seen no proof over 30 years of drafting where pick 5 will eventually get you up the ladder but pick may not.

If we get pick 5 or so right this year and next but get nothing right in the later picks we will be stuck down the bottom few for many years so losing now doesn't help us one little bit.

[Goose is king]

We will get pick 4 or 5 or 6 and at worst 7.
Seriously, how much difference could there be?
It may in five years time mean we get the better player anyway
For me it's barrack for the win

[Bunk_Moreland]

We will get pick 4 or 5 or 6 and at worst 7.
Seriously, how much difference could there be?
It may in five years time mean we get the better player anyway
For me it's barrack for the win

Hardly any, if the best talls go at one two or three, there is Parish, Balic, Matherian, Tucker and Curnow, all very very good mids.

But to think one place higher will make us a great team is ludicrious. It is what we do with our second third and fourth picks that matter.

Look At what we have done with our later picks over the past couple of years and our rookies.

It is simplistic bordering on trolling to constantly start the same thread over and over.

To suggest today was the perfect result and then say yoiu want to win shows you dont support St.Kilda.

Disgraceful to say today was a perfect result. Just appalling

[plugger66]

We will get pick 4 or 5 or 6 and at worst 7.
Seriously, how much difference could there be?
It may in five years time mean we get the better player anyway
For me it's barrack for the win

Hardly any, if the best talls go at one two or three, there is Parish, Balic, Matherian, Tucker and Curnow, all very very good mids.

But to think one place higher will make us a great team is ludicrious. It is what we do with our second third and fourth picks that matter.

Look At what we have done with our later picks over the past couple of years and our rookies.

It is simplistic bordering on trolling to constantly start the same thread over and over.

To suggest today was the perfect result and then say yoiu want to win shows you dont support St.Kilda.

Disgraceful to say today was a perfect result. Just appalling

Surely even worse is to want to lose to Melbourne by a point especially straight after losing a game.

[lefty]

I'd rather trade Longer than Hickey.

Honestly, Longer is so slow, watching today was very eh.... its not just his running, its when he gets the ball, there's no quick handball, everything is slow motion.

[Con Gorozidis]

Interesting who makes the 8. You would think GWS or the Dogs look most vulnerable of slipping out for the Pies. Crows obviously unlucky as you would mark down Geelong at AO as a Crows in.

[LTN16]

Chittywest

[Trev from the Bush]

I knew I shouldn't have looked...............it's a bad habit I have whenever I see anything from "citywest" on this forum.

I only had to read the first line and I felt a need to strangle whatever was the closest thing to me (sorry, old Puss!).

This is a fan forum, citywest only gets on this site wanting StKilda to lose. A troll, no less. How I wish my poor old cat was really citywest! Sidchrome, Kingchrome and any other brand of shiny tools you can think of.

[Con Gorozidis]

On form - a Hawks v Eagles GF is on the cards.

[plugger66]

On form - a Hawks v Eagles GF is on the cards.

Yep but the GF is in over 10 weeks and thank goodness.

[saintspremiers]

On form - a Hawks v Eagles GF is on the cards.

Yep but the GF is in over 10 weeks and thank goodness.

A Hawks Eagles GF would be a good result. No parasites or Freo and I'm happy!

[plugger66]

On form - a Hawks v Eagles GF is on the cards.

Yep but the GF is in over 10 weeks and thank goodness.

A Hawks Eagles GF would be a good result. No parasites or Freo and I'm happy!

Well I want Freo to win but they are struggling. I couldn't care about the other 2 so I would rather sides I like or dislike so I can barrack for a side.

[Teflon]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

I want them to win now and long term. Not one person has come up with proof that you shouldn't want both. We are a bottom side anyway. I want to win the games we possibly can because there are many games left we probably cant win so not caring doesn't cut it with me. I also have seen no proof over 30 years of drafting where pick 5 will eventually get you up the ladder but pick may not.

If we get pick 5 or so right this year and next but get nothing right in the later picks we will be stuck down the bottom few for many years so losing now doesn't help us one little bit.

You say the same thing over and over... hoping for a different result ?
NO ONE in this site has said:
1. You don't need to get later picks right
2. Pick 5 will by itself catapult us up the ladder
Keep peddling hysteria, I am sure the sycophants will follow along but it's utter garbage
"I want to win now and longer term" - you sound like Veruca Salt.
Again, for the record, we aren't good enough now.
To get better we need the draft - like it or not
Best option short term is for us to maximise our selection options via the draft - NO ONE has provided any proof that beating a dud Essendin or Lions side will have any benefits /impact on us in 5 years
I do not want to be a Port Adelaide 1 year wonder - does not interest me at all (regardless of short term win/loss ratio).
I can assure you in recent decades you have a far better chance of snaring a Nick Riewoldt with a top pick than you do at pick 43....

[plugger66]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

I want them to win now and long term. Not one person has come up with proof that you shouldn't want both. We are a bottom side anyway. I want to win the games we possibly can because there are many games left we probably cant win so not caring doesn't cut it with me. I also have seen no proof over 30 years of drafting where pick 5 will eventually get you up the ladder but pick may not.

If we get pick 5 or so right this year and next but get nothing right in the later picks we will be stuck down the bottom few for many years so losing now doesn't help us one little bit.

You say the same thing over and over... hoping for a different result ?
NO ONE in this site has said:
1. You don't need to get later picks right
2. Pick 5 will by itself catapult us up the ladder
Keep peddling hysteria, I am sure the sycophants will follow along but it's utter garbage
"I want to win now and longer term" - you sound like Veruca Salt.
Again, for the record, we aren't good enough now.
To get better we need the draft - like it or not
Best option short term is for us to maximise our selection options via the draft - NO ONE has provided any proof that beating a dud Essendin or Lions side will have any benefits /impact on us in 5 years
I do not want to be a Port Adelaide 1 year wonder - does not interest me at all (regardless of short term win/loss ratio).
I can assure you in recent decades you have a far better chance of snaring a Nick Riewoldt with a top pick than you do at pick 43....

Yes you are more likely but why aren't you comparing the chances of getting the next Roo with pick 5 or 7. Is it because there is little difference and it isn't emotive enough. Why is it a top pick or pick 43? You keep pedalling the same thing over and over again but never give us a reason in 5 years how pick 5 will get the next Roo but pick 7 wont.

And I know we aren't good enough now and that is why I hope we win the winnable games because there are plenty we cant win.

And I don't get your Port Adelaide thing. They were down the bottom or close to for years. Should it have been even longer. Should they have tried to lose to stay down longer? The Hawks and Pies were down for bugger all time and they have done ok. Sydney and Geelong have really ever been down.

The problem with everything you say is there is no real history of it working in over 30 years of the draft. Not one. All recent history suggests not caring about winning doesn't get you better. If only you could provide examples so we may jump on your ideas but you cant because there isn't any. None at all.

[Teflon]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

I want them to win now and long term. Not one person has come up with proof that you shouldn't want both. We are a bottom side anyway. I want to win the games we possibly can because there are many games left we probably cant win so not caring doesn't cut it with me. I also have seen no proof over 30 years of drafting where pick 5 will eventually get you up the ladder but pick may not.

If we get pick 5 or so right this year and next but get nothing right in the later picks we will be stuck down the bottom few for many years so losing now doesn't help us one little bit.

You say the same thing over and over... hoping for a different result ?
NO ONE in this site has said:
1. You don't need to get later picks right
2. Pick 5 will by itself catapult us up the ladder
Keep peddling hysteria, I am sure the sycophants will follow along but it's utter garbage
"I want to win now and longer term" - you sound like Veruca Salt.
Again, for the record, we aren't good enough now.
To get better we need the draft - like it or not
Best option short term is for us to maximise our selection options via the draft - NO ONE has provided any proof that beating a dud Essendin or Lions side will have any benefits /impact on us in 5 years
I do not want to be a Port Adelaide 1 year wonder - does not interest me at all (regardless of short term win/loss ratio).
I can assure you in recent decades you have a far better chance of snaring a Nick Riewoldt with a top pick than you do at pick 43....

Yes you are more likely but why aren't you comparing the chances of getting the next Roo with pick 5 or 7. Is it because there is little difference and it isn't emotive enough. Why is it a top pick or pick 43? You keep pedalling the same thing over and over again but never give us a reason in 5 years how pick 5 will get the next Roo but pick 7 wont.

And I know we aren't good enough now and that is why I hope we win the winnable games because there are plenty we cant win.

And I don't get your Port Adelaide thing. They were down the bottom or close to for years. Should it have been even longer. Should they have tried to lose to stay down longer? The Hawks and Pies were down for bugger all time and they have done ok. Sydney and Geelong have really ever been down.

The problem with everything you say is there is no real history of it working in over 30 years of the draft. Not one. All recent history suggests not caring about winning doesn't get you better. If only you could provide examples so we may jump on your ideas but you cant because there isn't any. None at all.

You answered yourself in the first line and didnt realise it?
Its a game of chance - no guarantees, the only guarantee is you get a better reward for finishing lower with a higher draft selection (is that in dispute still????). Thats it. Up to the club to make the best of it (at least you stopped going on about how pick 5 will catapult us up the ladder.....like someone actually said that..... )
Port Adelaide's rapid resurgence has been lauded by many - what planet you from? Have Port been down as long as Melbourne have they?????? get a clue.
IMO Port have risen too fast - they lack top KPP talent (especially up forward) and I think they are destined for mid table. Sure their smaller types (Gray etc) are classy but dont have enough IMO to seriously challenge. I dont want to be like them I want to be a serious contender for some time for FLAGS. What part of that assessment dont you still get?

We all get what u want - you want to win NOW, you have to beat up lower sides NOW to feel like we are going somewhere - I think those short term wins over cr@p opposition mean squat. You want to show anyone who has a different view to you what a "true" saints fan should feel like. Problem is it makes no sense and ignores the fact we are no god now and masking over it is fools gold and I aint buying it......

Wow......how bout that win over the Lions hey????? heady stuff there....

[plugger66]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

I want them to win now and long term. Not one person has come up with proof that you shouldn't want both. We are a bottom side anyway. I want to win the games we possibly can because there are many games left we probably cant win so not caring doesn't cut it with me. I also have seen no proof over 30 years of drafting where pick 5 will eventually get you up the ladder but pick may not.

If we get pick 5 or so right this year and next but get nothing right in the later picks we will be stuck down the bottom few for many years so losing now doesn't help us one little bit.

You say the same thing over and over... hoping for a different result ?
NO ONE in this site has said:
1. You don't need to get later picks right
2. Pick 5 will by itself catapult us up the ladder
Keep peddling hysteria, I am sure the sycophants will follow along but it's utter garbage
"I want to win now and longer term" - you sound like Veruca Salt.
Again, for the record, we aren't good enough now.
To get better we need the draft - like it or not
Best option short term is for us to maximise our selection options via the draft - NO ONE has provided any proof that beating a dud Essendin or Lions side will have any benefits /impact on us in 5 years
I do not want to be a Port Adelaide 1 year wonder - does not interest me at all (regardless of short term win/loss ratio).
I can assure you in recent decades you have a far better chance of snaring a Nick Riewoldt with a top pick than you do at pick 43....

Yes you are more likely but why aren't you comparing the chances of getting the next Roo with pick 5 or 7. Is it because there is little difference and it isn't emotive enough. Why is it a top pick or pick 43? You keep pedalling the same thing over and over again but never give us a reason in 5 years how pick 5 will get the next Roo but pick 7 wont.

And I know we aren't good enough now and that is why I hope we win the winnable games because there are plenty we cant win.

And I don't get your Port Adelaide thing. They were down the bottom or close to for years. Should it have been even longer. Should they have tried to lose to stay down longer? The Hawks and Pies were down for bugger all time and they have done ok. Sydney and Geelong have really ever been down.

The problem with everything you say is there is no real history of it working in over 30 years of the draft. Not one. All recent history suggests not caring about winning doesn't get you better. If only you could provide examples so we may jump on your ideas but you cant because there isn't any. None at all.

You answered yourself in the first line and didnt realise it?
Its a game of chance - no guarantees, the only guarantee is you get a better reward for finishing lower with a higher draft selection (is that in dispute still????). Thats it. Up to the club to make the best of it (at least you stopped going on about how pick 5 will catapult us up the ladder.....like someone actually said that..... )
Port Adelaide's rapid resurgence has been lauded by many - what planet you from? Have Port been down as long as Melbourne have they?????? get a clue.
IMO Port have risen too fast - they lack top KPP talent (especially up forward) and I think they are destined for mid table. Sure their smaller types (Gray etc) are classy but dont have enough IMO to seriously challenge. I dont want to be like them I want to be a serious contender for some time for FLAGS. What part of that assessment dont you still get?

We all get what u want - you want to win NOW, you have to beat up lower sides NOW to feel like we are going somewhere - I think those short term wins over cr@p opposition mean squat. You want to show anyone who has a different view to you what a "true" saints fan should feel like. Problem is it makes no sense and ignores the fact we are no god now and masking over it is fools gold and I aint buying it......

Wow......how bout that win over the Lions hey????? heady stuff there....

Teffers if you are hanging your hat on my first line then you are either struggling or have no idea. Of course a top pick has more chance than pick 43 but even the winner of the flag gets pick 18 so that is complete crap. As for Port well they were down the bottom or near the bottom for a lot longer than the Hawks or the pies but you now claim it wasn't long enough. How long is long enough or are you always going to work in hindsight like you do. Even that is poor hindsight because you keep getting blown out of the water.

And I want to show that I have the same feeling about winning like about 95% of our fans. I think we did a poll to prove that. I would have thought your meh idea is the silly idea for a football supporter. Come up with an example where the meh idea has worked. You have 30 years to find something but you never do. We use examples to prove your idea lacks common sense but you cant come back with anything to prove the idea of winning hurts or losing helps.

How about that losing that game in 2000. That has helped, hasn't it. Not. Words teffers. They mean stuff all but it seems it is all you have because you have no examples where losing for long periods has provided success.

[borderbarry]

I would like the Saints to finish with Pick 4, but at the same time I dont want us to lose another game.

[Teflon]

I think the discussion of "do you want St Kilda to win" is just far to simplistic
Some need instant gratification and wins now - even IF those wins were on the back of over achieving because no one in their right mind seriously reckons this side right now would trouble Hawks and co
Others want St Kikda to win in the long term - that is sustained opportunity, multiple chances of a flag or 3 (God knows we are behind), aka the 2004-2010 period
The 2 views aren't always compatible , that's ok its an opinion business
We all want St Kilda to win thought - but it's about timing the run for mine.

I want them to win now and long term. Not one person has come up with proof that you shouldn't want both. We are a bottom side anyway. I want to win the games we possibly can because there are many games left we probably cant win so not caring doesn't cut it with me. I also have seen no proof over 30 years of drafting where pick 5 will eventually get you up the ladder but pick may not.

If we get pick 5 or so right this year and next but get nothing right in the later picks we will be stuck down the bottom few for many years so losing now doesn't help us one little bit.

You say the same thing over and over... hoping for a different result ?
NO ONE in this site has said:
1. You don't need to get later picks right
2. Pick 5 will by itself catapult us up the ladder
Keep peddling hysteria, I am sure the sycophants will follow along but it's utter garbage
"I want to win now and longer term" - you sound like Veruca Salt.
Again, for the record, we aren't good enough now.
To get better we need the draft - like it or not
Best option short term is for us to maximise our selection options via the draft - NO ONE has provided any proof that beating a dud Essendin or Lions side will have any benefits /impact on us in 5 years
I do not want to be a Port Adelaide 1 year wonder - does not interest me at all (regardless of short term win/loss ratio).
I can assure you in recent decades you have a far better chance of snaring a Nick Riewoldt with a top pick than you do at pick 43....

Yes you are more likely but why aren't you comparing the chances of getting the next Roo with pick 5 or 7. Is it because there is little difference and it isn't emotive enough. Why is it a top pick or pick 43? You keep pedalling the same thing over and over again but never give us a reason in 5 years how pick 5 will get the next Roo but pick 7 wont.

And I know we aren't good enough now and that is why I hope we win the winnable games because there are plenty we cant win.

And I don't get your Port Adelaide thing. They were down the bottom or close to for years. Should it have been even longer. Should they have tried to lose to stay down longer? The Hawks and Pies were down for bugger all time and they have done ok. Sydney and Geelong have really ever been down.

The problem with everything you say is there is no real history of it working in over 30 years of the draft. Not one. All recent history suggests not caring about winning doesn't get you better. If only you could provide examples so we may jump on your ideas but you cant because there isn't any. None at all.

You answered yourself in the first line and didnt realise it?
Its a game of chance - no guarantees, the only guarantee is you get a better reward for finishing lower with a higher draft selection (is that in dispute still????). Thats it. Up to the club to make the best of it (at least you stopped going on about how pick 5 will catapult us up the ladder.....like someone actually said that..... )
Port Adelaide's rapid resurgence has been lauded by many - what planet you from? Have Port been down as long as Melbourne have they?????? get a clue.
IMO Port have risen too fast - they lack top KPP talent (especially up forward) and I think they are destined for mid table. Sure their smaller types (Gray etc) are classy but dont have enough IMO to seriously challenge. I dont want to be like them I want to be a serious contender for some time for FLAGS. What part of that assessment dont you still get?

We all get what u want - you want to win NOW, you have to beat up lower sides NOW to feel like we are going somewhere - I think those short term wins over cr@p opposition mean squat. You want to show anyone who has a different view to you what a "true" saints fan should feel like. Problem is it makes no sense and ignores the fact we are no god now and masking over it is fools gold and I aint buying it......

Wow......how bout that win over the Lions hey????? heady stuff there....

Teffers if you are hanging your hat on my first line then you are either struggling or have no idea. Of course a top pick has more chance than pick 43 but even the winner of the flag gets pick 18 so that is complete crap. As for Port well they were down the bottom or near the bottom for a lot longer than the Hawks or the pies but you now claim it wasn't long enough. How long is long enough or are you always going to work in hindsight like you do. Even that is poor hindsight because you keep getting blown out of the water.

And I want to show that I have the same feeling about winning like about 95% of our fans. I think we did a poll to prove that. I would have thought your meh idea is the silly idea for a football supporter. Come up with an example where the meh idea has worked. You have 30 years to find something but you never do. We use examples to prove your idea lacks common sense but you cant come back with anything to prove the idea of winning hurts or losing helps.

How about that losing that game in 2000. That has helped, hasn't it. Not. Words teffers. They mean stuff all but it seems it is all you have because you have no examples where losing for long periods has provided success.

Plugs you either can't read or have a condition - unknown but who cares
How bout you come up with a top 4 side minus a top draft selection? You can't, because it doesn't happen. Facts are we need top picks right now cause we aren't good enough - what we are really arguing about is the best way to get them. You feel securing wins over lowly opposition is worth more than us getting maximum reward from the draft from finishing lower. I don't (how's that for foresight!!!). I think right now our need to stock pile THE BEST talent we can is the priority. You acknowledge the best way to do this via the draft is through a top pick...... at least I've educated you on one front. Of course a top pick has better chance than 43 - it took a while to get that through....I don't need examples to prove this and only a troll would ask for one

Let's face facts you argue a point not cause you have a point but because you have nothing else. The amount of threads on this site where you hijack the opinion of another is testament to that. This site isn't even about footy to you - it's sadly about you and your pathetic attempts at passing off a critique of others views as something you mustered yourself.
By the way, it's an online fan forum genius..... words is all any of have.... my favourite is ......meh!!

[Rosco]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

[plugger66]

Plugs you either can't read or have a condition - unknown but who cares
How bout you come up with a top 4 side minus a top draft selection? You can't, because it doesn't happen. Facts are we need top picks right now cause we aren't good enough - what we are really arguing about is the best way to get them. You feel securing wins over lowly opposition is worth more than us getting maximum reward from the draft from finishing lower. I don't (how's that for foresight!!!). I think right now our need to stock pile THE BEST talent we can is the priority. You acknowledge the best way to do this via the draft is through a top pick...... at least I've educated you on one front. Of course a top pick has better chance than 43 - it took a while to get that through....I don't need examples to prove this and only a troll would ask for one

Let's face facts you argue a point not cause you have a point but because you have nothing else. The amount of threads on this site where you hijack the opinion of another is testament to that. This site isn't even about footy to you - it's sadly about you and your pathetic attempts at passing off a critique of others views as something you mustered yourself.
By the way, it's an online fan forum genius..... words is all any of have.... my favourite is ......meh!!

Why would I come up with a top 4 side minus a top draft selection? I have never said you don't need them. I have argued with you about this magical top 5 pick. I have said big deal if it 7 or 8 so there you go. You use example like would you rather a top pick or pick 43 and claim a victory when I say it is obvious which one you want. Surely that is loss to you if you claim a victory on that.

And I argue points with facts. You have nothing at all except some stupid example that proves nothing. Just for you Teffers I have gone through the last flag winners since 2008. I didn't know what a top pick meant but seen as you are fascinated with a top 5 pick I looked at all the sides that have won from 2008 and have taken down the numbers of top 5 picks on their list in those years. I used facts. Either traded or drafted top 5 picks.

2008 Hawks 3
2009 Geelong 1
2010 Pies 4
2011 Geelong 1
2012 Sydney Nil
2013 Hawks 3
2014 Hawks 2

Yep apart from Sydney they all had top 5 picks even though Geelong had only one and the Hawks lost one last year and still did it easy. By the way Teffers we had 5 in 2009 and lost. Yep 5.

Also teffers I decided to do a few sides down the bottom this year and how many top 5 picks they have.

Saints 3
Melbourne 4
Carlton 3

So the question is Teffers how many top 5 picks do you need to win or get up the ladder. Apparently Port went up to early but Geelong and Sydney never went down and the pies and Hawks only went down for 2 or 3 years. It seems from the facts that it isn't top 5 picks that win you the flag but great picks in all parts of the draft.

So now after using facts to completely make your point look silly its time you got in front of the mirror and chanted 100 times to yourself I know nothing about how to build a side. Just chant that and you will feel better. Honesty is the best policy. Also I think you should now delete your account on here. Its a little embarrassing when people use facts to discredit and all you have is emotive words. No facts at all after 30 years of the draft to back up those emotive words.

Finally I hope we beat the Dees this week. Wouldn't that be good. Who knows we still might get pick 5 but we may get pick 7. Facts suggest in the long run it wont make a difference.