Our Ruck Issue!!!

[Toy Saint]

Is Billy becoming the new whipping boy? Geez, apart from dropping that mark, he wasn't that bad. But yes, Hickey is a far better player. As Plugger mentioned, fitness is his issue.

I suspect the selectors are obsessed with only selecting players who can run the game out....may explain why we havn't seen a lot of Acres, Lee, Goddaard and Mccartin

[bergholt]

Longer played well and is only going to improve.

I thought he was moderately terrible. 80% of his hitouts went straight to the opposition, and around the ground he had 8 touches and 2 marks.

I agree that he's going to improve but he's got a long way to go.

[Jacks Back]

He didn't squib IMO, just clearly misjudged how close the Melbourne players were and decided to spoil.

But he's doing very little outside of being competitive at ruck contests.

At the ground he worked really hard today. Was putting pressure on and took a couple of strong grabs. He has the 6th most hit outs in the league so is doing something right. People are obsessed with something that isn't that big an issue. Hickey can play too but Longer has the spot for now.

And if Hickey was playing first ruck he may be leading the comp. You don't know until you have a go.

[Freebird]

Longer played well and is only going to improve.

And Hickey isn't. And Gawn killed him really.

No he didn't.

Well I think he did and you think he didn't. I stand by the point that if Longer continues to play Hickey isn't improving. I think Hickey puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the opposition ruckman than Longer. At the opposition know Hickey may go forward and take a mark.

BS

[plugger66]

Longer played well and is only going to improve.

And Hickey isn't. And Gawn killed him really.

No he didn't.

Well I think he did and you think he didn't. I stand by the point that if Longer continues to play Hickey isn't improving. I think Hickey puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the opposition ruckman than Longer. At the opposition know Hickey may go forward and take a mark.

BS

Quality again by you. Is there actually any point to your posting? Don't answer that. Its obviously no.

[Freebird]

I hope you don't read your own drivel...unfortunately its forced upon everyone else.

[plugger66]

I hope you don't read your own drivel...unfortunately its forced upon everyone else.

Another quality post. Use your brain and put me on ignore.

[Freebird]

You are on ignore but you continually pop up in quoted pathetic childish retorts...i expect you to reply because like all good woman you have to have the last say.

[gringo]

I guess its subjective but I thought Billy was very good. He was our 5th highest super coach scorer too. He ran down into the backline and got around the ground a lot. He really wrestles and hustles. I think he is going to be a bit of a Michael Gardiner type of big aggressive ruck man. I thought at the ground his game would quieten a few. I like Hickey too but I can see why he holds his spot.

[realdeal]

He didn't squib IMO, just clearly misjudged how close the Melbourne players were and decided to spoil.

But he's doing very little outside of being competitive at ruck contests.

At the ground he worked really hard today. Was putting pressure on and took a couple of strong grabs. He has the 6th most hit outs in the league so is doing something right. People are obsessed with something that isn't that big an issue. Hickey can play too but Longer has the spot for now.

Was also at the ground.. Longer did what he has done all season.. 8 touches, 2 marks and a few hit outs whilst the opposition ruck has their best game of the season. It's baffling as to why a Hickey hasn't been given a shot at all..

[seano1]

omg are we still on this ruck debate.......Hickey has a leg problem he went to Europe over the summer to get it looked at....and I`m guessing it is still a problem hence why he isn't doing the ruck work at the moment...also Longer needs to have his shot this year to see what he brings to the table as .......I`m guessing what if Hickeys leg is stuffed and Longer needs the game time. Maybe the coaches know this and I`m guessing again here some of you guys don't. Maybe they might be forced to put Hickey on a break and bring Holmes up or give the young bloke Pierce a shot......but I`m not a coach with 1st hand knowledge.
Stats mean f all in the end.....a forward has 6 touches and kicks 6 goals he`s a match winner...but if the ruckman has 8 he`s ready for the scrapheap.

[stkfc1]

Only my opinion and crystal balling here, but I reckon one J Holmes will be our No 1 ruckman next year and one of Longer and Hickey may be trade bait by the end of this one.

[bigcarl]

Is Billy becoming the new whipping boy? Geez, apart from dropping that mark, he wasn't that bad. But yes, Hickey is a far better player. As Plugger mentioned, fitness is his issue.

I suspect the selectors are obsessed with only selecting players who can run the game out....may explain why we havn't seen a lot of Acres, Lee, Goddaard and Mccartin

Hickey is the better pure footballer. Clever, better around the ground, a better mark. Can pinch hit forward.

In Billy's favour, he seems more durable, more physical, more capable of doing the crash and bash stuff, has a big tank and can run out games. He's better developed physically.

He wins lots of tap outs, but that is no guarantee of winning the clearances as we saw last night.

I can see why we play him, but it leaves a very good prospect in Hickey out in the cold. Tough gig trying to make it in the AFL as a ruckman. There seems to be room for only one per side unless they are versatile enough to be able to play other positions.

Hickey has played a couple of reasonable games as a forward, but he's more suited to ruck. Longer can play only one position but it is working in his favour at the moment.

[saintjake]

A lot of love for a bloke who plays a couple of good games and then gets injured.
Hickey is fragile as hell.
What are their contracts like? One will likely get moved on for an early pick of the coaches believe Holmes or Lewie are ready.

Hickey must either be struggling with injury again or really on the outer with Richo considering Longer turned up fat to preseason

[bergholt]

A lot of love for a bloke who plays a couple of good games and then gets injured.
Hickey is fragile as hell.
What are their contracts like? One will likely get moved on for an early pick of the coaches believe Holmes or Lewie are ready.

Hickey must either be struggling with injury again or really on the outer with Richo considering Longer turned up fat to preseason

I don't think that preseason rumour ever turned out to be true, did it?

[Animal Enclosure]

I thought Billy was pretty good...not his best game but he still impacted a lot of the delivery into the Melb F50 & threw his body into the contest.

The issue was when Bruce went into the ruck v Gawn & Gawn (who is 6 foot 10) dominated.

Our midfield got blitzed for a good 30 minutes too...just couldn't get their hands on the ball.

[Old Mate]

A lot of love for a bloke who plays a couple of good games and then gets injured.
Hickey is fragile as hell.
What are their contracts like? One will likely get moved on for an early pick of the coaches believe Holmes or Lewie are ready.

Hickey must either be struggling with injury again or really on the outer with Richo considering Longer turned up fat to preseason

I don't think that preseason rumour ever turned out to be true, did it?

After a game, I think it was against the Dogs, Armo was being interviewed and said words to the effect that Billy showed up to preseason training unfit.

[Old Mate]

Billy was a warrior yesterday and has been all year. He's a competitor and does all the desperate stuff Richo loves. He doesn't get a lot of the ball but competes in the ruck, is very good at retaining the footy for repeat stoppages when the ball is loose, puts his body on the line and lays plenty of tackles.

Hickey is brittle and his body is not ready and possibly never will be to manage first ruck duties. He was dreadfully out of form and lacking confidence prior to being dropped. He gets more footy around the ground than Longer but unless he's doing something good with it who cares?

Longer is durable, and a fighter that makes the mids around him stand taller. Ask our midfielders and leadership group who they would prefer in the centre square.

[plugger66]

Billy was a warrior yesterday and has been all year. He's a competitor and does all the desperate stuff Richo loves. He doesn't get a lot of the ball but competes in the ruck, is very good at retaining the footy for repeat stoppages when the ball is loose, puts his body on the line and lays plenty of tackles.

Hickey is brittle and his body is not ready and possibly never will be to manage first ruck duties. He was dreadfully out of form and lacking confidence prior to being dropped. He gets more footy around the ground than Longer but unless he's doing something good with it who cares?

Longer is durable, and a fighter that makes the mids around him stand taller. Ask our midfielders and leadership group who they would prefer in the centre square.

You do realise how well the opposition ruckmen have played against us this year? Anyone all those voting for Longer are right at this stage because he is getting a game and Hickey isn't. I still think its harsh on Hickey to say he was out of form. He is playing in a spot he has no idea how to play. Longer would nearly look like the worst player we have ever had if he was asked to play the same role.

It was always going to happen that only one could play and it seems Hickey is the one that will lose value when we trade him.

No idea about the answer to the last question as im sure you don't either.

[Old Mate]

Max Gawn didn't totally outshine Billy. In fact, Billy rated higher as per the AFL statistics, not that that is the be all and end all, just another consideration when comparing the too.

Gawn is also a giant, on Sandilands level. Billy was regularly out jumping him in the ruck and crashing in. The last tap to Steven did a lot to gain us the clearance that lead to the match winning goal.

[plugger66]

Max Gawn didn't totally outshine Billy. In fact, Billy rated higher as per the AFL statistics, not that that is the be all and end all, just another consideration when comparing the too.

Gawn is also a giant, on Sandilands level. Billy was regularly out jumping him in the ruck and crashing in. The last tap to Steven did a lot to gain us the clearance that lead to the match winning goal.

In champion Data Max beat him rather easily. Matter of fact he may have been about third highest rated. Its obvious that Hickey isn't fit enough to ruck at the moment but if he does get fit it would be at least nice to see him have a go in the ruck. We probably aren't going to go down the Hickey forward idea again so Hickey will end in the seconds for the rest of the season. His value has to drop. That's life I suppose because Longers value would drop if he was dropped. I just hope long term we keep the best ruckman. I do worry about the opposition ruckmans form when Longer plays.

[Old Mate]

Afl data (afl website) or whatever it's called has Billy ahead of Max.

[spert]

Longer did a couple of nice things early, but Gawn, who is at the best a plodder, looked like a quality ruckman who gave his onballers every chance with his work. Something the brains trust will be looking at I'm sure.

[howlinwolf]

We look a lot less dangerous when Bruce goes into the ruck.
We need to find that second ruck option that isn't Bruce. He really makes the opposition take notice when he's up forward.
I'm guessing Hickey is carrying some sort of injury and happy to see that ironed out and try him again as second ruck/resting forward.
If this doesn't work out Pierce could be the next option for this role.

Billy has some limitations. Doesn't take many strong grabs and take the game on like a Michael Gardiner but he's the best option we have at the moment.
It was frustrating to see him punch that ball away when he could have marked uncontested.
Hopefully Pierce and Holmes will keep improving and put some pressure on.

[elvis lives]

The ruck issue is so rediculously overblown on here. Fact is we have two very promising ruckmen with different skills sets, both with a lot to learn and develop into to become a-grade ruckmen. What they need is game time and patience.
Clearly Longer brings more to the primary ruck role that Hickey if you go by the coaches' comments in recent weeks, so you can understand why he is getting the more consistent run. Hickey has still played most games and spent his own share of time in the ruck at points. Getting all worked up about it until they are at their peak as ruckmen will just bring you ulcers over the next 4 years. Be patient and watch them develop. It is a well used cliche good ruckmen take time, but one that is well proven. Not sure why it's so hard for some to understand.