I'm torn...

[Teflon]

There's a difference between tanking and not doing everything in your power to win.

Tanking is deliberately trying to lose ie moving players into unusual positions or benching your stars when the game is tight. That's what Melbourne got busted for. ALL clubs will do other things like rest players with 'soreness' or put them in for early operations prematurely ending their season.

Now of course the 22 players selected and coach (excluding Melb) will be doing everything they can to win in, that's human nature....but if you don't have the cattle...

Fact is, the pros in the afl system agree with the minority on here...it's all about flags and putting yourself in finals contention to be a chance.

And who could blame them?
Of course it is
Not the first time a Pro has agreed with me either I might add....

[The Fireman]

nice

[asiu]

Collingwood were also 'graced' an undeserved Priority pick as well weren't they ?
... level playing field it is and all that tosh.

For a few years there were a lot of priority picks:

Collingwood 1999 for winning 4 games
Fremantle 1999 for winning 5 games
St Kilda 2000 for winning 2.5 games
Fremantle 2001 for winning 2 games
St Kilda 2001 for winning 4 games
West Coast 2001 for winning 5 games
Carlton missed one in 2002 when they won 3 games but had salary cap penalties
St Kilda missed one in 2002 when we won 5.5 games
Bulldogs 2003 for winning 3.5 games
Carlton 2003 for winning 4 games
Melbourne 2003 for winning 5 games
Richmond 2004 for winning 4 games
Hawthorn 2004 for winning 4 games
Bulldogs 2004 for winning 5 games
Carlton 2005 for winning 4.5 games
Collingwood 2005 for winning 5 games
Hawthorn 2005 for winning 5 games
Carlton 2007 for winning 7.5 games over two years
Melbourne 2009 for winning 7 games over two years

Heaps of priority picks between 1999 and 2005, more than half the comp benefited in one of those years. Which one was Collingwood's "undeserved" one?

Collingwoods finishing ladder position after R22
2001 9th out of 16
2002 4th "
2003 2nd "
2004 13th "
2005 15th " P/P
2006 5th out of 16

[asiu]

then
6th , 8th , 4th , 1st , 1st (out of 17 after 24)

dunna seem real true blue and deserved to me.

[Old Mate]

There's a difference between tanking and not doing everything in your power to win.

Tanking is deliberately trying to lose ie moving players into unusual positions or benching your stars when the game is tight. That's what Melbourne got busted for. ALL clubs will do other things like rest players with 'soreness' or put them in for early operations prematurely ending their season.

Now of course the 22 players selected and coach (excluding Melb) will be doing everything they can to win in, that's human nature....but if you don't have the cattle...

Fact is, the pros in the afl system agree with the minority on here...it's all about flags and putting yourself in finals contention to be a chance.

And who could blame them?
Of course it is
Not the first time a Pro has agreed with me either I might add....

The pros in Thailand can be quite agreeable to most things

[kosifantutti]

Go Tiges !!

Go Swannies!! Go Cats!!

Have they a history of middle of the road 9th placed finishes?

You should at least read before posting...

I'm surprised you asked, since its common knowledge, but here goes:

Swans
1995 12
1996 2
1997 7
1998 5
1999 8
2000 10
2001 7
2002 11
2003 4
2004 5
2005 1
2006 2
2007 7
2008 6
2009 12
2010 5
2011 6
2012 1
2013 4
2014 2

Cats
1995 2
1996 7
1997 2
1998 12
1999 11
2000 5
2001 12
2002 9
2003 12
2004 4
2005 5
2006 10
2007 1
2008 2
2009 1
2010 3
2011 1
2012 6
2013 3
2014 5

In neither case, no lower than 12th in the last 20 years. A few mid table places. Never spend long in the bottom and certainly neither have followed the Teflon Theory.

Well Sydney have COLA I suppose. What's the Cats' secret?

What a bizarre post that makes my point??
Sydney have 0 9th placed finish in that list ,Cats 1

1 club has been heavily backed by the AFL for years
The other has had a wealth of Father Son gifts (Ablett for a 3rd rounder??)
Wonder why they don't bottom out?????
Ironically, Cats have a lean year in 2006, drop out of 8 ..... get a gun draft pick up in Sellwood now their captain and prime mover ??
I reckon if you said to Geelong - how bout you guys win 1 or 2 more in 06 and skip J Sellwood they'd say
"Nah thanks.... bigger dynasty's to build thanks..."

You do realise Selwood was pick 7 don't you? Thanks for confirming you don't have to finish last to pick up a gun.

[asiu]

pop me out a Premiership hon

kabkoon krup

[citywest]

Hey Mods, as the person that started this post can I please ask that it now be locked? The amount of hysteria and dribble has gone on for too long.

[asiu]

u goose
... trolling is like tanking

Get subtle son !!!!

[plugger66]

Hey Mods, as the person that started this post can I please ask that it now be locked? The amount of hysteria and dribble has gone on for too long.

Why would it be locked? I have an idea. Don't read it. It isn't that hard to work that out.

[asiu]

Edit ... the SS double post gremlin thingy (again)

[Finna]

There are lots of ways to not try as hard that don't involve players so that impact is zilch
I agree there are absolutely no impacts on the club in future at all from dropping this game so meh get the picks
I've never said lose all games - that's you lying again (drink does that). In fact some wins mean more eg the Dogscome from behind was worth it.... anything against Collingwood grab it.... Actually, any current top 8 side but that won't happen so we come back to reality....
What do we get from beating up lowly Brisbane??? Not much
I think wins overall short term are overrated so some fans feel better all alone on Sunday nights
I doubt you've bee involved in a club period - that involves human interaction which I'm tipping ain't a strong suit

I tell you what we got from beating a lowly Brisbane......My 9 year old son who was convinced by his Grandfather to follow the Blues last year came to the Brisbane game with me two weeks ago. We don't get too many chances to go to Saints games living in QLD.

He loved it, got a SAINTS jumper and asked me to sign him up as a member. He can't wait till we are in Melbourne in a few weeks to go watch the Saints and wants to go to training so he can get his jumper signed!

That win got us a supporter, just like the Melbourne win this week might do as well.

That's great
My 9 yr old likes footy, then soccer, then air guitar it sortof rotates kids are kids big deal usually the determination of who they follow ain't off the back of 1 game.... It's parents /friends influence most of the time
Nice story though - just imagine how he'll feel when we the flag having drafted the next Buddy cause we managed a top 5 pick 2015!!

You miss the point. That win won us a supporter and a new member. Winning has that effect and not just on 9 year old kids.

If winning gets members = money and more people and more sponsors. Then losing gets you the opposite. It's about more than draft picks.

Yep, a winning culture = money, better players, more supporters and a future......

Melbourne may never full recovery from the last 15 years and the same coming for Carlton...

No I understand your point - it's just lame that's all and no one is suggesting we do a Melbourne that's just you being hysterical
Man up (even on a footy forum), back your club and we'll be just fine with a few losses in the short - mid term and get Parish
Rest of your post is rhetoric that's already been said in the thread

Hysterical? Are you serious? I have no emotion in relation to this whatsoever.....

Stop being such a drama queen!

[saintsRrising]

Hey Mods, as the person that started this post can I please ask that it now be locked? The amount of hysteria and dribble has gone on for too long.

You left and said you would not be back in the thread. But here you are....and also obviously have kept reading.

A man of your word you are not.

Solution: Do what you said you would do, and not what you have done.

[Old Mate]

It's been a good discussion.

SaintsRrising took an early bump but recovered well and won a number of crucial contests.

Plugger66 staged for a couple of frees but converted his opportunities. Might miss a few weeks for squirrel gripping firey.

Bunk came out aggressive and laid a couple of big hits. Will miss a few weeks. Intentional, medium, high contact.

Tef was getting triple teamed but still kicked a lazy 6. Went off at plug for his dirty tactics, flew the flag. At one point went off at the ump (mods). Will be fined.

Firey was playing second man up in the ruck and giving a chop out. Was doing the team things, game high for 1 %ers.

Wind sister came on as sub and sealed the game with a couple of freak plays. Did a strange war dance, still trying to work out wtf it was.

CityWest had a good first quarter then was unsighted. Had the hard tag. Ducked his head in a few contests.

[Teflon]

Talent identification is far better than it once was. You can pretty much nail the top picks so long as you develop them right once they are in the system. This is why pick 3 is far better than pick 8, as an example. Of course there are exceptions to the rule and other factors that contribute to later picks being better than earlier picks.

Fwiw Jack Billings will be far superior to Bontempelli IMO.

In this draft there's certainly a gap between the best 4-5 in the draft and the next rung. Give me wins but also a top 5 draft pick thanks. It's a fine line.

Nailed it!

Well to nail pick 3 we may have to lose every game.

May being the operative word we'll see
But a gun young mid in Parish isn't what we need??
Let's get him...

Im praying he aint 1 cause we wont get pick 1.

And we may need pick one to get him. The phantom drafts aren't always right especially this early in the year. To get pick one we need to lose all games and hope 2 or 3 sides improve.

[Teflon]

Go Tiges !!

Go Swannies!! Go Cats!!

Have they a history of middle of the road 9th placed finishes?

You should at least read before posting...

I'm surprised you asked, since its common knowledge, but here goes:

Swans
1995 12
1996 2
1997 7
1998 5
1999 8
2000 10
2001 7
2002 11
2003 4
2004 5
2005 1
2006 2
2007 7
2008 6
2009 12
2010 5
2011 6
2012 1
2013 4
2014 2

Cats
1995 2
1996 7
1997 2
1998 12
1999 11
2000 5
2001 12
2002 9
2003 12
2004 4
2005 5
2006 10
2007 1
2008 2
2009 1
2010 3
2011 1
2012 6
2013 3
2014 5

In neither case, no lower than 12th in the last 20 years. A few mid table places. Never spend long in the bottom and certainly neither have followed the Teflon Theory.

Well Sydney have COLA I suppose. What's the Cats' secret?

What a bizarre post that makes my point??
Sydney have 0 9th placed finish in that list ,Cats 1

1 club has been heavily backed by the AFL for years
The other has had a wealth of Father Son gifts (Ablett for a 3rd rounder??)
Wonder why they don't bottom out?????
Ironically, Cats have a lean year in 2006, drop out of 8 ..... get a gun draft pick up in Sellwood now their captain and prime mover ??
I reckon if you said to Geelong - how bout you guys win 1 or 2 more in 06 and skip J Sellwood they'd say
"Nah thanks.... bigger dynasty's to build thanks..."

You do realise Selwood was pick 7 don't you? Thanks for confirming you don't have to finish last to pick up a gun.

yes I did but again thought the bigger point in THIS example that building from a draft can be very beneficial
Dal was pick 13 ....it happens...
My view sub 5 your chances are better - im all for increasing the odds andlike Old Mate I think talent identification is better nowadays...

[Teflon]

It's been a good discussion.

SaintsRrising took an early bump but recovered well and won a number of crucial contests.

Plugger66 staged for a couple of frees but converted his opportunities. Might miss a few weeks for squirrel gripping firey.

Bunk came out aggressive and laid a couple of big hits. Will miss a few weeks. Intentional, medium, high contact.

Tef was getting triple teamed but still kicked a lazy 6. Went off at plug for his dirty tactics, flew the flag. At one point went off at the ump (mods). Will be fined.

Firey was playing second man up in the ruck and giving a chop out. Was doing the team things, game high for 1 %ers.

Wind sister came on as sub and sealed the game with a couple of freak plays. Did a strange war dance, still trying to work out wtf it was.

CityWest had a good first quarter then was unsighted. Had the hard tag. Ducked his head in a few contests.

Very good Old Mate - pay that.

[Teflon]

pop me out a Premiership hon

kabkoon krup

LMAO what a classic!

[Teflon]

There are lots of ways to not try as hard that don't involve players so that impact is zilch
I agree there are absolutely no impacts on the club in future at all from dropping this game so meh get the picks
I've never said lose all games - that's you lying again (drink does that). In fact some wins mean more eg the Dogscome from behind was worth it.... anything against Collingwood grab it.... Actually, any current top 8 side but that won't happen so we come back to reality....
What do we get from beating up lowly Brisbane??? Not much
I think wins overall short term are overrated so some fans feel better all alone on Sunday nights
I doubt you've bee involved in a club period - that involves human interaction which I'm tipping ain't a strong suit

I tell you what we got from beating a lowly Brisbane......My 9 year old son who was convinced by his Grandfather to follow the Blues last year came to the Brisbane game with me two weeks ago. We don't get too many chances to go to Saints games living in QLD.

He loved it, got a SAINTS jumper and asked me to sign him up as a member. He can't wait till we are in Melbourne in a few weeks to go watch the Saints and wants to go to training so he can get his jumper signed!

That win got us a supporter, just like the Melbourne win this week might do as well.

That's great
My 9 yr old likes footy, then soccer, then air guitar it sortof rotates kids are kids big deal usually the determination of who they follow ain't off the back of 1 game.... It's parents /friends influence most of the time
Nice story though - just imagine how he'll feel when we the flag having drafted the next Buddy cause we managed a top 5 pick 2015!!

You miss the point. That win won us a supporter and a new member. Winning has that effect and not just on 9 year old kids.

If winning gets members = money and more people and more sponsors. Then losing gets you the opposite. It's about more than draft picks.

Yep, a winning culture = money, better players, more supporters and a future......

Melbourne may never full recovery from the last 15 years and the same coming for Carlton...

No I understand your point - it's just lame that's all and no one is suggesting we do a Melbourne that's just you being hysterical
Man up (even on a footy forum), back your club and we'll be just fine with a few losses in the short - mid term and get Parish
Rest of your post is rhetoric that's already been said in the thread

Hysterical? Are you serious? I have no emotion in relation to this whatsoever.....

Stop being such a drama queen!

u sound emotional....
anyway, its all agreed we're getting Parish and tanking!!

[Bunk_Moreland]

Hey Mods, as the person that started this post can I please ask that it now be locked? The amount of hysteria and dribble has gone on for too long.

Oh dear. Just because you have been smashed in this thread is no reason to lock it.

Tried to troll and stated you wanted the club to lose ten more games (9 now after Hawthorn)

Just because your argument has-been smashed, no reason to sook

[Bunk_Moreland]

There are lots of ways to not try as hard that don't involve players so that impact is zilch
I agree there are absolutely no impacts on the club in future at all from dropping this game so meh get the picks
I've never said lose all games - that's you lying again (drink does that). In fact some wins mean more eg the Dogscome from behind was worth it.... anything against Collingwood grab it.... Actually, any current top 8 side but that won't happen so we come back to reality....
What do we get from beating up lowly Brisbane??? Not much
I think wins overall short term are overrated so some fans feel better all alone on Sunday nights
I doubt you've bee involved in a club period - that involves human interaction which I'm tipping ain't a strong suit

I tell you what we got from beating a lowly Brisbane......My 9 year old son who was convinced by his Grandfather to follow the Blues last year came to the Brisbane game with me two weeks ago. We don't get too many chances to go to Saints games living in QLD.

He loved it, got a SAINTS jumper and asked me to sign him up as a member. He can't wait till we are in Melbourne in a few weeks to go watch the Saints and wants to go to training so he can get his jumper signed!

That win got us a supporter, just like the Melbourne win this week might do as well.

That's great
My 9 yr old likes footy, then soccer, then air guitar it sortof rotates kids are kids big deal usually the determination of who they follow ain't off the back of 1 game.... It's parents /friends influence most of the time
Nice story though - just imagine how he'll feel when we the flag having drafted the next Buddy cause we managed a top 5 pick 2015!!

You miss the point. That win won us a supporter and a new member. Winning has that effect and not just on 9 year old kids.

If winning gets members = money and more people and more sponsors. Then losing gets you the opposite. It's about more than draft picks.

Yep, a winning culture = money, better players, more supporters and a future......

Melbourne may never full recovery from the last 15 years and the same coming for Carlton...

No I understand your point - it's just lame that's all and no one is suggesting we do a Melbourne that's just you being hysterical
Man up (even on a footy forum), back your club and we'll be just fine with a few losses in the short - mid term and get Parish
Rest of your post is rhetoric that's already been said in the thread

Hysterical? Are you serious? I have no emotion in relation to this whatsoever.....

Stop being such a drama queen!

u sound emotional....
anyway, its all agreed we're getting Parish and tanking!!

Would not be unhappy with Parish

[asiu]

pop me out a Premiership hon

kabkoon krup

LMAO what a classic!

My pleasure Sir Knight.
... well played.

****

i notice no lamingtons got votes.

[The Fireman]

It's been a good discussion.

SaintsRrising took an early bump but recovered well and won a number of crucial contests.

Plugger66 staged for a couple of frees but converted his opportunities. Might miss a few weeks for squirrel gripping firey.

Bunk came out aggressive and laid a couple of big hits. Will miss a few weeks. Intentional, medium, high contact.

Tef was getting triple teamed but still kicked a lazy 6. Went off at plug for his dirty tactics, flew the flag. At one point went off at the ump (mods). Will be fined.

Firey was playing second man up in the ruck and giving a chop out. Was doing the team things, game high for 1 %ers.

Wind sister came on as sub and sealed the game with a couple of freak plays. Did a strange war dance, still trying to work out wtf it was.

CityWest had a good first quarter then was unsighted. Had the hard tag. Ducked his head in a few contests.

Cleeevvvvvvvver (apologise for the poor Mcavaney impersonation )

[bergholt]

Collingwood were also 'graced' an undeserved Priority pick as well weren't they ?
... level playing field it is and all that tosh.

For a few years there were a lot of priority picks:

Collingwood 1999 for winning 4 games
Fremantle 1999 for winning 5 games
St Kilda 2000 for winning 2.5 games
Fremantle 2001 for winning 2 games
St Kilda 2001 for winning 4 games
West Coast 2001 for winning 5 games
Carlton missed one in 2002 when they won 3 games but had salary cap penalties
St Kilda missed one in 2002 when we won 5.5 games
Bulldogs 2003 for winning 3.5 games
Carlton 2003 for winning 4 games
Melbourne 2003 for winning 5 games
Richmond 2004 for winning 4 games
Hawthorn 2004 for winning 4 games
Bulldogs 2004 for winning 5 games
Carlton 2005 for winning 4.5 games
Collingwood 2005 for winning 5 games
Hawthorn 2005 for winning 5 games
Carlton 2007 for winning 7.5 games over two years
Melbourne 2009 for winning 7 games over two years

Heaps of priority picks between 1999 and 2005, more than half the comp benefited in one of those years. Which one was Collingwood's "undeserved" one?

Collingwoods finishing ladder position after R22
2001 9th out of 16
2002 4th "
2003 2nd "
2004 13th "
2005 15th " P/P
2006 5th out of 16

Fair enough, I guess that's why the rules were (briefly) changed so that it was two years' worth of results. They won 13 across two years but that was immediately after two GF appearances, so as you say maybe they played the system a bit.

[Teflon]

Go Tiges !!

Go Swannies!! Go Cats!!

Have they a history of middle of the road 9th placed finishes?

You should at least read before posting...

I'm surprised you asked, since its common knowledge, but here goes:

Swans
1995 12
1996 2
1997 7
1998 5
1999 8
2000 10
2001 7
2002 11
2003 4
2004 5
2005 1
2006 2
2007 7
2008 6
2009 12
2010 5
2011 6
2012 1
2013 4
2014 2

Cats
1995 2
1996 7
1997 2
1998 12
1999 11
2000 5
2001 12
2002 9
2003 12
2004 4
2005 5
2006 10
2007 1
2008 2
2009 1
2010 3
2011 1
2012 6
2013 3
2014 5

In neither case, no lower than 12th in the last 20 years. A few mid table places. Never spend long in the bottom and certainly neither have followed the Teflon Theory.

Well Sydney have COLA I suppose. What's the Cats' secret?

What a bizarre post that makes my point??
Sydney have 0 9th placed finish in that list ,Cats 1

1 club has been heavily backed by the AFL for years
The other has had a wealth of Father Son gifts (Ablett for a 3rd rounder??)
Wonder why they don't bottom out?????
Ironically, Cats have a lean year in 2006, drop out of 8 ..... get a gun draft pick up in Sellwood now their captain and prime mover ??
I reckon if you said to Geelong - how bout you guys win 1 or 2 more in 06 and skip J Sellwood they'd say
"Nah thanks.... bigger dynasty's to build thanks..."

Yep got the gun player by finishing 10th so that's for backing up those who want to win as many as possible this year. Bet not many or any Geelong supporters were hoping they would drop out of the finals that year.

I'll take my chances in guns at a lower pick thanks
Don't know/care what Cat fans think/want they have huge flag success behind them