Review - Saints vs Crows

[saintbrat]

Richo's message

[samuraisaint]

Really proud of the boys, that was a tremendous effort.

We had them in a spot of bother before losing Roo & Lonie and I believe may have won what would have been a tight affair. We went in with no changes and by the half way mark of the first quarter we had lost Geary, Montagna, Lonie & Riewoldt. We were 2 down on the bench early in the game and with the loss of Roo our structure was seriously compromised. Yet we fought it out admirably. In fact if we'd won from that position it would have been a more extraordinary win than last week.

Thankfully, particularly for the Riewoldt family, Roo's injury didn't turn out to be serious.

Hickey is going to be an utter gun and is proving that we more than adequately compensated for the loss of BJ. I didn't think he would be a significant forward weapon (although I rated his ruck work) and I'm glad to be surprised by how dangerous he will also be resting forward. Longer will be a fine brute of a ruckman too and we have Holmes emerging at Sandy.

Then there's Armo's arrival as an elite midfielder, the Jacks, Dunstan, Webster, Newnes, Lonie, Sinclair, McKenzie and many more. Of course let's not forget Cam Bruce, who is emerging as a gun key forward. Even better they are all uncompromisingly tough, physically and between the ears.

I'll call it now, even after a loss, this is a list with definite Premiership potential.

Some maybe premiership material but we are about 8 to 10 players short to become close to a premiership side. And that's fine. We have plenty of time on our side.

I think you're a glass half empty sort of guy. Think about another couple of pre seasons and the core of our list reaching 50-70 games and tell me where the deficiencies/holes are? Key positions? No. Rucks? No. Half backs? Certainly not. Midfield in good shape. Sure we can always add midfield depth and depth in general, but 8 to 10 short???

Well I can name 5 players who will never play in a premiership side for a start, Schneider, Fisher, Rooy, Joey and Dempster. Then their is middle aged players I doubt will be good enough to play in a premiership side like Delany and Geary. That's 7. There are also young guys playing now who wont be good enough and there maybe some in the seconds who could be good enough. It is certainly not hard to see we need 8-10 other players to build a premiership side. As I said we have time so we don't need to worry.

Ummm...Schneider and Dempster already have.

[samuraisaint]

We need at least another 8-10 players on the list who are high draft picks under pick #20. To be elite that is what we'll need. Unfortunately I saw one of them yesterday, Tom Lynch, who I think is a very smart footballer.
I think after results this weekend and the possibility that we may not get Roo and Joey back for a week or so, that we may seal a bottom two finish by the time we have played Hawthorn. There are plenty of games at Etihad which we may win, but probably not without both Riewoldt and Montagna playing. It looks as though the Lions are starting to improve now and should they beat us, they will go above us, leaving only Carlton below us. If anything, the Wellington games are starting to act as agents of change with our rebuild. We lose to sides there who I think we would beat at Etihad, and in some ways it may pay off with higher draft picks.

[Linton Lodger]

Really proud of the boys, that was a tremendous effort.

We had them in a spot of bother before losing Roo & Lonie and I believe may have won what would have been a tight affair. We went in with no changes and by the half way mark of the first quarter we had lost Geary, Montagna, Lonie & Riewoldt. We were 2 down on the bench early in the game and with the loss of Roo our structure was seriously compromised. Yet we fought it out admirably. In fact if we'd won from that position it would have been a more extraordinary win than last week.

Thankfully, particularly for the Riewoldt family, Roo's injury didn't turn out to be serious.

Hickey is going to be an utter gun and is proving that we more than adequately compensated for the loss of BJ. I didn't think he would be a significant forward weapon (although I rated his ruck work) and I'm glad to be surprised by how dangerous he will also be resting forward. Longer will be a fine brute of a ruckman too and we have Holmes emerging at Sandy.

Then there's Armo's arrival as an elite midfielder, the Jacks, Dunstan, Webster, Newnes, Lonie, Sinclair, McKenzie and many more. Of course let's not forget Cam Bruce, who is emerging as a gun key forward. Even better they are all uncompromisingly tough, physically and between the ears.

I'll call it now, even after a loss, this is a list with definite Premiership potential.

Some maybe premiership material but we are about 8 to 10 players short to become close to a premiership side. And that's fine. We have plenty of time on our side.

I think you're a glass half empty sort of guy. Think about another couple of pre seasons and the core of our list reaching 50-70 games and tell me where the deficiencies/holes are? Key positions? No. Rucks? No. Half backs? Certainly not. Midfield in good shape. Sure we can always add midfield depth and depth in general, but 8 to 10 short???

Well I can name 5 players who will never play in a premiership side for a start, Schneider, Fisher, Rooy, Joey and Dempster. Then their is middle aged players I doubt will be good enough to play in a premiership side like Delany and Geary. That's 7. There are also young guys playing now who wont be good enough and there maybe some in the seconds who could be good enough. It is certainly not hard to see we need 8-10 other players to build a premiership side. As I said we have time so we don't need to worry.

Delaney!??

[Linton Lodger]

We need at least another 8-10 players on the list who are high draft picks under pick #20. To be elite that is what we'll need. Unfortunately I saw one of them yesterday, Tom Lynch, who I think is a very smart footballer.
I think after results this weekend and the possibility that we may not get Roo and Joey back for a week or so, that we may seal a bottom two finish by the time we have played Hawthorn. There are plenty of games at Etihad which we may win, but probably not without both Riewoldt and Montagna playing. It looks as though the Lions are starting to improve now and should they beat us, they will go above us, leaving only Carlton below us. If anything, the Wellington games are starting to act as agents of change with our rebuild. We lose to sides there who I think we would beat at Etihad, and in some ways it may pay off with higher draft picks.

Tom Lynch is a front runner and that's why Lyon had no time for him. Prior to our injuries when we were stacking the pressure on, he was nowhere to be seen.

[bergholt]

I think you're a glass half empty sort of guy. Think about another couple of pre seasons and the core of our list reaching 50-70 games and tell me where the deficiencies/holes are? Key positions? No. Rucks? No. Half backs? Certainly not. Midfield in good shape. Sure we can always add midfield depth and depth in general, but 8 to 10 short???

I disagree that the midfield is in good shape. We need 4-6 really top line midfielders and another 4-6 good ones to be able to seriously challenge. Something like:

Hawthorn: Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Zac Smith, Birchall, Hill, Burgoyne, Suckling, Duryea, Shiels

At the moment our midfield is Armo + Steven + Joey + no-one. If we look forward to 2018 I'd say we currently have these guys who are locked in:

Armitage: gun, will be leading the midfield
Steven: very good player, will be a lynchpin
Billings: looks very likely to be A-grade
Dunstan: definitely at least strong B-grade, hopefully better
Weller: not a game-breaker but good for muscle and tagging

Being really optimistic, assuming we can keep them and it all works out, that's 5. We need the same number again - ideally some better than Dunstan and Weller.

Some will come from the draft and some from this list of guys with question marks:

Savage: some great performances, still very inconsistent
Newnes: disappointing start to this season, needs to take the next step
Ross: will hopefully step up this season or next
Webster: has a lot of good qualities, hopefully ends up in the midfield
Acres: promising but too soon to tell
McKenzie: promising but too soon to tell
Sinclair: promising but too soon to tell
Wright: great attitude but disposal becoming a serious issue
Saunders: can't get a game so just a maybe at this point
Lonie: probably more a small forward than a mid but might develop
Templeton: disappointing so far this year but still time
Roberton: maybe a mid but even if so definitely not a superstar
Murdoch: no idea what his position is, probably not a mid
Geary: doesn't seem to be a midfielder
Curren: probably will be gone
Minchington: probably will be gone
Markworth: brave to predict anything from him given injuries

A lot of question marks at this point. Probably half of those guys will be gone in three years, half of the rest won't have turned out the way we hope. If we get four good ones from that list then it'll be a good result.

Then doing all the numbers, we get 4-5 from the first list, 3-5 from the second list then we need 2-5 from the draft this year and next. It's possible but definitely not locked in at this point, a huge amount of work for everyone to do.

[SainterK]

I'm with you Berg, need more...and this is the time to experiment

[8856brother]

We need at least another 8-10 players on the list who are high draft picks under pick #20. To be elite that is what we'll need. Unfortunately I saw one of them yesterday, Tom Lynch, who I think is a very smart footballer.
I think after results this weekend and the possibility that we may not get Roo and Joey back for a week or so, that we may seal a bottom two finish by the time we have played Hawthorn. There are plenty of games at Etihad which we may win, but probably not without both Riewoldt and Montagna playing. It looks as though the Lions are starting to improve now and should they beat us, they will go above us, leaving only Carlton below us. If anything, the Wellington games are starting to act as agents of change with our rebuild. We lose to sides there who I think we would beat at Etihad, and in some ways it may pay off with higher draft picks.

Tom Lynch is a front runner and that's why Lyon had no time for him. Prior to our injuries when we were stacking the pressure on, he was nowhere to be seen.

As was Dangerfield, but he goes ok to be fair.

[plugger66]

I think you're a glass half empty sort of guy. Think about another couple of pre seasons and the core of our list reaching 50-70 games and tell me where the deficiencies/holes are? Key positions? No. Rucks? No. Half backs? Certainly not. Midfield in good shape. Sure we can always add midfield depth and depth in general, but 8 to 10 short???

I disagree that the midfield is in good shape. We need 4-6 really top line midfielders and another 4-6 good ones to be able to seriously challenge. Something like:

Hawthorn: Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Zac Smith, Birchall, Hill, Burgoyne, Suckling, Duryea, Shiels

At the moment our midfield is Armo + Steven + Joey + no-one. If we look forward to 2018 I'd say we currently have these guys who are locked in:

Armitage: gun, will be leading the midfield
Steven: very good player, will be a lynchpin
Billings: looks very likely to be A-grade
Dunstan: definitely at least strong B-grade, hopefully better
Weller: not a game-breaker but good for muscle and tagging

Being really optimistic, assuming we can keep them and it all works out, that's 5. We need the same number again - ideally some better than Dunstan and Weller.

Some will come from the draft and some from this list of guys with question marks:

Savage: some great performances, still very inconsistent
Newnes: disappointing start to this season, needs to take the next step
Ross: will hopefully step up this season or next
Webster: has a lot of good qualities, hopefully ends up in the midfield
Acres: promising but too soon to tell
McKenzie: promising but too soon to tell
Sinclair: promising but too soon to tell
Wright: great attitude but disposal becoming a serious issue
Saunders: can't get a game so just a maybe at this point
Lonie: probably more a small forward than a mid but might develop
Templeton: disappointing so far this year but still time
Roberton: maybe a mid but even if so definitely not a superstar
Murdoch: no idea what his position is, probably not a mid
Geary: doesn't seem to be a midfielder
Curren: probably will be gone
Minchington: probably will be gone
Markworth: brave to predict anything from him given injuries

A lot of question marks at this point. Probably half of those guys will be gone in three years, half of the rest won't have turned out the way we hope. If we get four good ones from that list then it'll be a good result.

Then doing all the numbers, we get 4-5 from the first list, 3-5 from the second list then we need 2-5 from the draft this year and next. It's possible but definitely not locked in at this point, a huge amount of work for everyone to do.

Got it in one but that have taken me two hours to type. As I said we need many new players but that isn't a problem. We will get many new players. We just need good ones. The recruiters will have more to do with us winning a flag than the coaches.

[st.byron]

[
I disagree that the midfield is in good shape. We need 4-6 really top line midfielders and another 4-6 good ones to be able to seriously challenge. Something like:

Hawthorn: Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Zac Smith, Birchall, Hill, Burgoyne, Suckling, Duryea, Shiels

At the moment our midfield is Armo + Steven + Joey + no-one. If we look forward to 2018 I'd say we currently have these guys who are locked in:

Armitage: gun, will be leading the midfield
Steven: very good player, will be a lynchpin
Billings: looks very likely to be A-grade
Dunstan: definitely at least strong B-grade, hopefully better
Weller: not a game-breaker but good for muscle and tagging

Being really optimistic, assuming we can keep them and it all works out, that's 5. We need the same number again - ideally some better than Dunstan and Weller.

Some will come from the draft and some from this list of guys with question marks:

Savage: some great performances, still very inconsistent
Newnes: disappointing start to this season, needs to take the next step
Ross: will hopefully step up this season or next
Webster: has a lot of good qualities, hopefully ends up in the midfield
Acres: promising but too soon to tell
McKenzie: promising but too soon to tell
Sinclair: promising but too soon to tell
Wright: great attitude but disposal becoming a serious issue
Saunders: can't get a game so just a maybe at this point
Lonie: probably more a small forward than a mid but might develop
Templeton: disappointing so far this year but still time
Roberton: maybe a mid but even if so definitely not a superstar
Murdoch: no idea what his position is, probably not a mid
Geary: doesn't seem to be a midfielder
Curren: probably will be gone
Minchington: probably will be gone
Markworth: brave to predict anything from him given injuries

A lot of question marks at this point. Probably half of those guys will be gone in three years, half of the rest won't have turned out the way we hope. If we get four good ones from that list then it'll be a good result.

Then doing all the numbers, we get 4-5 from the first list, 3-5 from the second list then we need 2-5 from the draft this year and next. It's possible but definitely not locked in at this point, a huge amount of work for everyone to do.

I think that's a pretty glass half empty assessment and you're being way too quick to put guys in boxes about their potential. For eg. " ideally some better then Dunstan and Weller"...Dunstan's in his second season and has played 23 games. He's still finding his way. From what I've seen he could turn out to be an elite in and under extractor. Give him some time. Weller - ok has been around 3 years more, but second season in a developing team and has plenty of improvement in him.
I also reckon that McKenzie, Acres, Webster, Sinclair at least from that list look the goods. Too early to tell for sure, but also too early to talk them down. Lonie looks great. Eli was brilliant last year off the rookie list, like Sinclair has been this year. I read elsewhere on the forum someone casting doubts on him. He's played 8 games FFS.

Player development isn't a linear thing where they just get better and better with every single game. There really is a culture of demanding that players become instantly awesome or that if they show promise in their early games, then they should be like that all the time. Development goes up and down and finding consistency takes time and experience. We have a very young list and I reckon with the addition of a couple of elite mids through trading or FA and a further high draft pick or two, the future is bright.

Also to be factored in is the improvement that comes with players playing in a successful, cohesive team. Individual and team development takes time and it will come.

[gringo]

I think it's pointless to assume that any player will not be good enough to play in a premiership. Chris Dawes hold a premiership medallion. You don't have to have 22 A graders. It could be argued some of our les spectacular players were close like Eddy and Mc Qualter. Geary as your 22 player would make you a very strong team. Delaney plays his role and plenty of stodgy full backs have won premierships.

[dragit]

I think it's pointless to assume that any player will not be good enough to play in a premiership. Chris Dawes hold a premiership medallion. You don't have to have 22 A graders. It could be argued some of our les spectacular players were close like Eddy and Mc Qualter. Geary as your 22 player would make you a very strong team. Delaney plays his role and plenty of stodgy full backs have won premierships.

It's funny isn't it?

I guess we'd have nothing to talk about though if we weren't speculating on this stuff…

Payne may go on to be part of a premiership, while McCartin doesn't quite make the grade.

It's just great to see a number of first year players looking comfortable at AFL level in their first year IMO… this year and last year. It has been a really long time since we've seen that.

[spert]

To build a winning team, you need the right mix and good balance across all lines and a strong core down the middle where your A grade players usually live. Delaney is doing a good job under current circumstances, but is the victim many times of a lack of support from upfield, especially dodgy defensive work of the midfield. I would like to see another line-breaking running half back in the mix, and a solid strong marking CHB, where I think Goddard is the likely choice to come through, or even Lee who seems to be working well in the backline at Sandy. I think Acres will perform an important midfield or onball role for us.

[plugger66]

I think it's pointless to assume that any player will not be good enough to play in a premiership. Chris Dawes hold a premiership medallion. You don't have to have 22 A graders. It could be argued some of our les spectacular players were close like Eddy and Mc Qualter. Geary as your 22 player would make you a very strong team. Delaney plays his role and plenty of stodgy full backs have won premierships.

So the conversation only goes one way. People can say this side can win a flag in 5 years but people who think they cant cannot point out why because its pointless to assume that any player will not be good enough to play in a premiership side but it is ok to assume they can play in the side. Sounds to rather silly to me. And its fine that you think geary and Delaney may play in a flag but I think they wont and I also think we are 8-10 players short of getting there. Each to their own.

[elizabethr]

I'm with Plugged on this.

[Darth Vader]

History and numbers show that there wil be a MINIMUM of 8-10 changes to the list by 2018ish, regardless of whether they'll be in premiership contention or not. This isn't glass half-empty, it's just fact. The discussion is "who" not "whether or not".

[bergholt]

I think that's a pretty glass half empty assessment and you're being way too quick to put guys in boxes about their potential. For eg. " ideally some better then Dunstan and Weller"...Dunstan's in his second season and has played 23 games. He's still finding his way. From what I've seen he could turn out to be an elite in and under extractor. Give him some time.

You're right, and that's great if he does, but it looks to me like he'll probably be more Brad Sewell than Jordan Lewis. And that's fine because Sewell played in 3 grand finals for 2 premierhips, a Sewell-like Dunstan would be a perfect cog in our midfield.

Weller - ok has been around 3 years more, but second season in a developing team and has plenty of improvement in him.
I also reckon that McKenzie, Acres, Webster, Sinclair at least from that list look the goods. Too early to tell for sure, but also too early to talk them down. Lonie looks great. Eli was brilliant last year off the rookie list, like Sinclair has been this year. I read elsewhere on the forum someone casting doubts on him. He's played 8 games FFS.

Right, exactly. A bunch of these guys look pretty good, but so did Terry Milera after his first season. Caydn Beetham seemed to have the necessary qualities. Dean Greig had 39 on debut but only played 33 games. Dean Polo had 28 and 3 goals first time out. Tom Ledger knew how to find the footy. Etc, etc, etc.

I'll repeat my point, which is that there's uncertainty associated with all of them, and what we do know is that many of the guys currently on the list won't make it, including some guys who look good at the moment. So we should take that into account when we look at the list, rather than overplaying the potential and then getting angry in a year or two.

[FQF]

Seems more obvious than not that the following guys (at least) won't be on our list for the long haul:

White
Siposs
Murdoch
Saunders
Saad
Schneider
Curren
Shenton
Payne

Throw in 4-5 retirements and we have a big turnover.

[dragit]

Bit rough on payno FQF

[Dr Spaceman]

Seems more obvious than not that the following guys (at least) won't be on our list for the long haul:

White
Siposs
Murdoch
Saunders
Saad
Schneider
Curren
Shenton
Payne

Throw in 4-5 retirements and we have a big turnover.

Very early call on Payne

[FQF]

Seems more obvious than not that the following guys (at least) won't be on our list for the long haul:

White
Siposs
Murdoch
Saunders
Saad
Schneider
Curren
Shenton
Payne

Throw in 4-5 retirements and we have a big turnover.

Very early call on Payne

Very premature, I know but I did say "more obvious than not". The likelihood of a rookie forward making it can't be good. I would've thought Curren, Saunders and Murdoch were more contentious?

[dragit]

Unfortunately Markworth would be the most likely to go unless he can get some AFL games later this year with a touch of Nat Fyfe about them.

[hayes66]

We need at least another 8-10 players on the list who are high draft picks under pick #20. To be elite that is what we'll need. Unfortunately I saw one of them yesterday, Tom Lynch, who I think is a very smart footballer.
I think after results this weekend and the possibility that we may not get Roo and Joey back for a week or so, that we may seal a bottom two finish by the time we have played Hawthorn. There are plenty of games at Etihad which we may win, but probably not without both Riewoldt and Montagna playing. It looks as though the Lions are starting to improve now and should they beat us, they will go above us, leaving only Carlton below us. If anything, the Wellington games are starting to act as agents of change with our rebuild. We lose to sides there who I think we would beat at Etihad, and in some ways it may pay off with higher draft picks.

Tom Lynch is a front runner and that's why Lyon had no time for him. Prior to our injuries when we were stacking the pressure on, he was nowhere to be seen.

As was Dangerfield, but he goes ok to be fair.

What statical or factual information do you process to back up your claim?

I don't believe Lynch is a front runner and will use the game v Port Adelaide to support my belief. Adelaide were beaten, Tom kicked two goals and was named in the best players.

ADELAIDE 2.3 4.8 9.11 13.13 (91)
PORT ADELAIDE 5.1 8.1 12.6 18.7 (115)

GOALS
Adelaide: Betts 5, Walker 2, Jenkins 2, Thompson 2, Lynch 2
Port Adelaide: Schulz 5, Ryder 3, Hartlett 2, Mitchell 2, Westhoff 2, Wingard 2, Gray, Boak

BEST
Adelaide: Betts, Dangerfield, Thompson, Ellis-Yolmen, Lynch
Port Adelaide: Gray, Boak, Ebert, Schulz, Pittard, Hartlett, Ryder

[Linton Lodger]

I think you're a glass half empty sort of guy. Think about another couple of pre seasons and the core of our list reaching 50-70 games and tell me where the deficiencies/holes are? Key positions? No. Rucks? No. Half backs? Certainly not. Midfield in good shape. Sure we can always add midfield depth and depth in general, but 8 to 10 short???

I disagree that the midfield is in good shape. We need 4-6 really top line midfielders and another 4-6 good ones to be able to seriously challenge. Something like:

Hawthorn: Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Zac Smith, Birchall, Hill, Burgoyne, Suckling, Duryea, Shiels

At the moment our midfield is Armo + Steven + Joey + no-one. If we look forward to 2018 I'd say we currently have these guys who are locked in:

Armitage: gun, will be leading the midfield
Steven: very good player, will be a lynchpin
Billings: looks very likely to be A-grade
Dunstan: definitely at least strong B-grade, hopefully better
Weller: not a game-breaker but good for muscle and tagging


Being really optimistic, assuming we can keep them and it all works out, that's 5. We need the same number again - ideally some better than Dunstan and Weller.

Some will come from the draft and some from this list of guys with question marks:

Savage: some great performances, still very inconsistent
Newnes: disappointing start to this season, needs to take the next step
Ross: will hopefully step up this season or next
Webster: has a lot of good qualities, hopefully ends up in the midfield
Acres: promising but too soon to tell
McKenzie: promising but too soon to tell
Sinclair: promising but too soon to tell
Wright: great attitude but disposal becoming a serious issue
Saunders: can't get a game so just a maybe at this point
Lonie: probably more a small forward than a mid but might develop
Templeton: disappointing so far this year but still time
Roberton: maybe a mid but even if so definitely not a superstar
Murdoch: no idea what his position is, probably not a mid
Geary: doesn't seem to be a midfielder
Curren: probably will be gone
Minchington: probably will be gone
Markworth: brave to predict anything from him given injuries

A lot of question marks at this point. Probably half of those guys will be gone in three years, half of the rest won't have turned out the way we hope. If we get four good ones from that list then it'll be a good result.

Then doing all the numbers, we get 4-5 from the first list, 3-5 from the second list then we need 2-5 from the draft this year and next. It's possible but definitely not locked in at this point, a huge amount of work for everyone to do.

Armitage; Steven; Dunstan; Billings; Acres; Sinclair; Templeton; McKenzie; Ross; Weller & Murdoch. That is a basis for one heck of a midfield. Big bodied too.

[plugger66]

I think you're a glass half empty sort of guy. Think about another couple of pre seasons and the core of our list reaching 50-70 games and tell me where the deficiencies/holes are? Key positions? No. Rucks? No. Half backs? Certainly not. Midfield in good shape. Sure we can always add midfield depth and depth in general, but 8 to 10 short???

I disagree that the midfield is in good shape. We need 4-6 really top line midfielders and another 4-6 good ones to be able to seriously challenge. Something like:

Hawthorn: Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Zac Smith, Birchall, Hill, Burgoyne, Suckling, Duryea, Shiels

At the moment our midfield is Armo + Steven + Joey + no-one. If we look forward to 2018 I'd say we currently have these guys who are locked in:

Armitage: gun, will be leading the midfield
Steven: very good player, will be a lynchpin
Billings: looks very likely to be A-grade
Dunstan: definitely at least strong B-grade, hopefully better
Weller: not a game-breaker but good for muscle and tagging


Being really optimistic, assuming we can keep them and it all works out, that's 5. We need the same number again - ideally some better than Dunstan and Weller.

Some will come from the draft and some from this list of guys with question marks:

Savage: some great performances, still very inconsistent
Newnes: disappointing start to this season, needs to take the next step
Ross: will hopefully step up this season or next
Webster: has a lot of good qualities, hopefully ends up in the midfield
Acres: promising but too soon to tell
McKenzie: promising but too soon to tell
Sinclair: promising but too soon to tell
Wright: great attitude but disposal becoming a serious issue
Saunders: can't get a game so just a maybe at this point
Lonie: probably more a small forward than a mid but might develop
Templeton: disappointing so far this year but still time
Roberton: maybe a mid but even if so definitely not a superstar
Murdoch: no idea what his position is, probably not a mid
Geary: doesn't seem to be a midfielder
Curren: probably will be gone
Minchington: probably will be gone
Markworth: brave to predict anything from him given injuries

A lot of question marks at this point. Probably half of those guys will be gone in three years, half of the rest won't have turned out the way we hope. If we get four good ones from that list then it'll be a good result.

Then doing all the numbers, we get 4-5 from the first list, 3-5 from the second list then we need 2-5 from the draft this year and next. It's possible but definitely not locked in at this point, a huge amount of work for everyone to do.

Armitage; Steven; Dunstan; Billings; Acres; Sinclair; Templeton; McKenzie; Ross; Weller & Murdoch. That is a basis for one heck of a midfield. Big bodied too.

We have no idea if about 6 of them will be any good. I reckon about 14 clubs could come up with names that mean something to them but bugger all to the rest of the AFL. I reckon we are 4 players short in the midfield and about 4 to 6 elsewhere before we can be given any hope of finishing top 4 let alone playing in a GF.