What a liabilty Saad is

[Old Mate]

Touched the footy on 4 occasions & had zero tackles. Ripper.

He played about 35 minutes in the forward pocket when we were getting slaughtered, give him a break.

I'll call it as i see it. He had a stinker. If he plays a blinder next week I'll give him a wrap.

[magnifisaint]

I had my say on Ahmed's deficiencies earlier in this thread. I do not say he is not worth playing. He is no better or worse than any other senior players at the moment. I merely pointed out a couple of obvious deficiencies.

It is appalling, then, to read this thread in its entirety and how so many "fans' are baying for his blood. Give the man a break! He is not a player who has been playing the game since the under 9's, he did not even play until his late teens. He was a "project player" when first drafted after 2 years in the VFL.

He deserves the same development time as any of the younger players. If he doesn't make the grade in the longer term, he can get on here and post safe in the knowledge he has played a few dozen AFL games more than the combined total of his critics on this forum.

What the hell does that have to do with it. AFL is a cut throat business. If he doesn't play well then he gets dropped. It's not a kindergarten where he gets mollycoddled.

[magnifisaint]

I had my say on Ahmed's deficiencies earlier in this thread. I do not say he is not worth playing. He is no better or worse than any other senior players at the moment. I merely pointed out a couple of obvious deficiencies.

It is appalling, then, to read this thread in its entirety and how so many "fans' are baying for his blood. Give the man a break! He is not a player who has been playing the game since the under 9's, he did not even play until his late teens. He was a "project player" when first drafted after 2 years in the VFL.

He deserves the same development time as any of the younger players. If he doesn't make the grade in the longer term, he can get on here and post safe in the knowledge he has played a few dozen AFL games more than the combined total of his critics on this forum.

What the hell does that have to do with it. AFL is a cut throat business. If he doesn't play well then he gets dropped. It's not a kindergarten where he gets mollycoddled.

[Con Gorozidis]

I had my say on Ahmed's deficiencies earlier in this thread. I do not say he is not worth playing. He is no better or worse than any other senior players at the moment. I merely pointed out a couple of obvious deficiencies.

It is appalling, then, to read this thread in its entirety and how so many "fans' are baying for his blood. Give the man a break! He is not a player who has been playing the game since the under 9's, he did not even play until his late teens. He was a "project player" when first drafted after 2 years in the VFL.

He deserves the same development time as any of the younger players. If he doesn't make the grade in the longer term, he can get on here and post safe in the knowledge he has played a few dozen AFL games more than the combined total of his critics on this forum.

What the hell does that have to do with it. AFL is a cut throat business. If he doesn't play well then he gets dropped. It's not a kindergarten where he gets mollycoddled.

So many contradictions there. First of all he is worse than any other player. Statistically hes our worst player by quite some way.
Secondly its not an apprenticeship. He doesnt get a special pass because he dindt play in under 9s (how that is relevant is anyones guess).
Thirdly the whole point of the thread is he seems to be getting more development opportunities than others who have superior performance and superior upside.
I am not sure why he gets some special status. And why is he a project player? Hes been in the system for years and is 25. What kind of 'project' is he part off?

Lets compare him with a roughly comparable player - the much maligned Jeff Garlett.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=O&fid2=O

They are the same age. Play for similar standard teams.
Garlett doubles or triples him in on every relevant indicator except clangers where they are on par.

So at the same age, he is not even half the player of Garlett - and there are people out there who bag Garlett.

[Sainternist]

He had a half decent season in 2012. After that, it has all been downhill for Ahmed.

The club was kind enough to give him a new lease of life. If he has been doing the right thing by us and giving his all on the field each week, then he is just not good enough to play AFL football. Pure and simple.

[saintspremiers]

Saad must be dropped this week. No more excuses. Too many others waiting for a go

[FQF]

This place will explode if Saad keeps his spot - and rightly so. Offering nothing.

[HitTheBoundary]

I like that Richo is giving players an extended run in the seniors to see if they're up to it, or to gain experience.
Some were calling for Lonie to be dropped last week, but he came out and played his best game.
It's only round four, still plenty of time for all players to prove their worth and get a game.

We'll probably get flogged this week anyway. I can't see the point of bringing in young players just to get manhandled by a team of much bigger bodies.

Change for change sake will just result in bigger losses.

But I agree Saad could do with a rest. It's a shame Minch didn't play yesterday as he was the obvious replacement. Maybe Eli will come in instead.

[spert]

I doubt if he is ticking enough boxes to hold his place. We need a productive and creative small forward who is kicking goals and or setting them up , and getting hands on ball- I guess Lonie and Sinclair are covering that role. Minch does need to get a few games under his belt and I would have played him in NZ as he earned a place from good VFL form.

[Con Gorozidis]

I like that Richo is giving players an extended run in the seniors to see if they're up to it, or to gain experience.
Some were calling for Lonie to be dropped last week, but he came out and played his best game.
It's only round four, still plenty of time for all players to prove their worth and get a game.

We'll probably get flogged this week anyway. I can't see the point of bringing in young players just to get manhandled by a team of much bigger bodies.

Change for change sake will just result in bigger losses.

But I agree Saad could do with a rest. It's a shame Minch didn't play yesterday as he was the obvious replacement. Maybe Eli will come in instead.

Lonie is 18.
Saad is 25.
Saad also had the entire 2013 season where he didnt touch the ball. He's sure had a good 'extended run' to see if hes up to it.
I think we have enough data points to provide an answer.

[gringo]

I didn't think he was terrible when he came on, he was lively and got a hand on the ball to spill it free a couple of times in our forward line. His pace helps him. I guess we will see if he played his role well enough next thursday.

[Con Gorozidis]

I didn't think he was terrible when he came on, he was lively and got a hand on the ball to spill it free a couple of times in our forward line. His pace helps him. I guess we will see if he played his role well enough next thursday.

Can you define his role and tell me how it differs to say a Jeff Garlett?
'Lively' without ever touching the ball doesn't cut it imho.

[saynta]

Saad played a couple of good games in his first year. None in his second and certainly, from what I hear and read, none this year.

He was a gamble at best.

[Sainternist]

Saad played a couple of good games in his first year. None in his second and certainly, from what I hear and read, none this year.

He was a gamble at best.

I wanna know the real reasons behind redrafting him? Did they feel sorry for him?

[magnifisaint]

Saad played a couple of good games in his first year. None in his second and certainly, from what I hear and read, none this year.

He was a gamble at best.

I wanna know the real reasons behind redrafting him? Did they feel sorry for him?

yep

[saintspremiers]

I like that Richo is giving players an extended run in the seniors to see if they're up to it, or to gain experience.
Some were calling for Lonie to be dropped last week, but he came out and played his best game.
It's only round four, still plenty of time for all players to prove their worth and get a game.

We'll probably get flogged this week anyway. I can't see the point of bringing in young players just to get manhandled by a team of much bigger bodies.

Change for change sake will just result in bigger losses.

But I agree Saad could do with a rest. It's a shame Minch didn't play yesterday as he was the obvious replacement. Maybe Eli will come in instead.

So let's make no changes then unless injury forces it.

The forum will go into meltdown and the resident contrarian will be in his element

[dragit]

He was a gamble at best.

As are all rookies... Saad has played some good football at afl level, most draftees never get there...

He may not become a consistent afl player, but with our 3rd rookie pick he was worth the risk.

Worst case is that Lonie & Sinclair keep him out of the side which is a good thing anyway.

[saynta]

He was a gamble at best.

As are all rookies... Saad has played some good football at afl level, most draftees never get there...

He may not become a consistent afl player, but with our 3rd rookie pick he was worth the risk.

Worst case is that Lonie & Sinclair keep him out of the side which is a good thing anyway.

If he was being drafted for the first time, I would agree with you, but he had already been drafted before and shown nothing in his second year. A poor selection, in my view. Very poor even, and a wasted pick.

[seano1]

i can now see why the team is in trouble.......just cause we draft someone in the top 10 doesn`t mean they will make it to be elite.......it takes time to get the right mix/blend of players and the right time to bring in the young ....Ross didn`t manage that well at all...now we have pain and will have for this year and maybe next 1 or 2......yes some players wont last and like some ex players will be sent packing to other clubs as trade bait only to also be found wanting and fall out of grace there aswell. We saw this in the 70`s 80`s and again now and it will happen again in years to come. Have a look at Footscray they have been trying to get that mix right for quite awhile and might nearly be there going by their start to this year. Richo I believe stuffed up on the weekend taking off the tall for a short...this helped Carlton I think but he has to keep getting game time into these guys ,so I guess he has a time frame of trying to even it out so all the guys get roughly the same amount of time into them .
So if Saad or others stuff up don't put the boot into them..for they are giving it their best shot and I would like to think if any of us had the same chance as them I would be giving it my all aswell and tried to get this club up where it belongs.

[asiu]

The forum will go into meltdown and the resident contrarian will be in his element

... are you like permantly peeved 'n a little jealous even coz Plugger is above u in the Order of SS SwingingCocks

U do whinge 'n whine a lot about the poorly treated poster consistently
... but not helpfully ... are u practicing traducement or for a comedy gig at the Blue Oyster Bar ?

[Austinnn]

I had my say on Ahmed's deficiencies earlier in this thread. I do not say he is not worth playing. He is no better or worse than any other senior players at the moment. I merely pointed out a couple of obvious deficiencies.

It is appalling, then, to read this thread in its entirety and how so many "fans' are baying for his blood. Give the man a break! He is not a player who has been playing the game since the under 9's, he did not even play until his late teens. He was a "project player" when first drafted after 2 years in the VFL.

He deserves the same development time as any of the younger players. If he doesn't make the grade in the longer term, he can get on here and post safe in the knowledge he has played a few dozen AFL games more than the combined total of his critics on this forum.

I agree. He has not been 'useless'. He is given a role, sometimes he does alright, sometimes he doesn't. He might need some time in the VFL. He's not alone there. I'd drop over half the team if I could based on the last two weeks.

He did alright in the Gold Coast win, 8 disposals, 3 marks, 3 tackles 2 goals, 1 behind. Against the Pies he got 9 disposals, 4 tackles, one goal. He's not the next Stephen Milne. A lot of people are angry at Saad for not being Eddie Betts despite us risking pick 2 of the rookie draft on him. Maybe he's not going to get better. Maybe he will. It's early.

Stop venting and remember that he is a rookie pick, not in our top 22 when everyone is fit probably. Saad is quite accurate from set shots generally, so I can see the merit in redrafting him, as he knew the set up, good squad member. Minchington will get his chance. I think at this stage we're hoping all of our players and coaches can be instantly more experienced and better. It's a hard road, no short cuts. Buckle up.

[Austinnn]

Lonie is 18.
Saad is 25.
Saad also had the entire 2013 season where he didnt touch the ball. He's sure had a good 'extended run' to see if hes up to it.
I think we have enough data points to provide an answer.

Con, give it a break. Stop perpetuating this myth again and again like a broken record.
http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?P ... D=2013#ind
If you're too lazy to click, I'll sum it up for you.

2013 stats total:
13 games (first 11 then rds 15 and 19)

17 goals
11 behinds
63 kicks
41 handballs

all that from
27 marks and
6 frees for, which means that he must have got the ball plenty of other ways.

Maybe he wasn't a star in 2013 and maybe if he had been it would have worked out slightly better for us, but you're lying or oversimplifying to say nonsense like 'he didn't touch the ball' and to say it so often means that your argument has become emotive, rather than logical.

There is time for him to improve. You want a whole squad full of raw youth or experienced winners, and I can see why but his performances in 2013 were neither brilliant or terrible, just alright.

I get that St Kilda has historically had too many 'alright' players and not enough 'brilliant' ones, but just at the moment, when we've got a lot of kids he is good to have around. And he's only one player, not the cause of our problems which is lack of team cohesion and experience.

Someone mentioned that we should have taken Krackouer instead. He was gone before we got to Saad, to take him we'd have had to pass up Jack Sinclair. Anyone wish we'd done that? No? Then pipe down.

Honestly, this scapegoatism is a plague on our club. Raph Clark, Zac Dawson, Jimmy Gwilt, etc. It's one of the saddest things about supporting a team, having to listen to other fans kicking their players while they are down.

Yes by all means, a spell in the VFL may be necessary, but he isn't and has never been a waste of a pick.

By the way, I'm guilty of this too, I was fuming about Schneider last year, didn't see why we redrafted him as a rookie and was heavily critical of his game against the Pies. We all need to take a step back sometimes and let things play out. We're desperate for success or signs of growth, but patience is key.

[HitTheBoundary]

The forum will go into meltdown and the resident contrarian will be in his element

... are you like permantly peeved 'n a little jealous even coz Plugger is above u in the Order of SS SwingingCocks

U do whinge 'n whine a lot about the poorly treated poster consistently
... but not helpfully ... are u practicing traducement or for a comedy gig at the Blue Oyster Bar ?

SS SwingingCocks at the Blue Oyster Bar?
Tell me more....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niumQLDL_k0

[Con Gorozidis]

Lonie is 18.
Saad is 25.
Saad also had the entire 2013 season where he didnt touch the ball. He's sure had a good 'extended run' to see if hes up to it.
I think we have enough data points to provide an answer.

Con, give it a break. Stop perpetuating this myth again and again like a broken record.
http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?P ... D=2013#ind
If you're too lazy to click, I'll sum it up for you.

2013 stats total:
13 games (first 11 then rds 15 and 19)

17 goals
11 behinds
63 kicks
41 handballs

all that from
27 marks and
6 frees for, which means that he must have got the ball plenty of other ways.

Maybe he wasn't a star in 2013 and maybe if he had been it would have worked out slightly better for us, but you're lying or oversimplifying to say nonsense like 'he didn't touch the ball' and to say it so often means that your argument has become emotive, rather than logical.

There is time for him to improve. You want a whole squad full of raw youth or experienced winners, and I can see why but his performances in 2013 were neither brilliant or terrible, just alright.

I get that St Kilda has historically had too many 'alright' players and not enough 'brilliant' ones, but just at the moment, when we've got a lot of kids he is good to have around. And he's only one player, not the cause of our problems which is lack of team cohesion and experience.

Someone mentioned that we should have taken Krackouer instead. He was gone before we got to Saad, to take him we'd have had to pass up Jack Sinclair. Anyone wish we'd done that? No? Then pipe down.

Honestly, this scapegoatism is a plague on our club. Raph Clark, Zac Dawson, Jimmy Gwilt, etc. It's one of the saddest things about supporting a team, having to listen to other fans kicking their players while they are down.

Yes by all means, a spell in the VFL may be necessary, but he isn't and has never been a waste of a pick.

I hope you are kidding.
Garlett kicked 43 goals in 2013


Here is Saads player ratings from an independent observer with no emotional interest for 2013

http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Ahmed-SAAD

2013
13 games
11 of them poor (3 or less out of 10), including 2 2s and a 1.
Then has has another poor game (4) and one average one (6).

Add to that 4 VFL games where he also didnt touch the ball.
Here are some VFL highlights:

16 VFL Failed to make any real impact up forward. -
17 VFL Just the one goal. Would expect more again this calibre of opposition. -
18 VFL Kicked a goal but was hardly sighted for much of the day. -

Honestly read that and then tell me how I am pushing a 'myth'.
I am not one for bagging players - but people on here force me into it by saying absurd and ridiculous stuff.
I mean sometimes i wonder how we are bottom when all our players are champions.
It is called cognitive dissonance.

[dragit]

I am not one for bagging players - but people on here force me into it by saying absurd and ridiculous stuff.

lol now that is funny.