Russell's Top 25 Saints
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Thanks Stinger.
Appreciate it.
Before my time but seems amazing our "greatest ever" player was swapped for a guy that lasted 2 weeks.
Appreciate it.
Before my time but seems amazing our "greatest ever" player was swapped for a guy that lasted 2 weeks.
Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
heartbreaking ....made me sick when he won aother brownlow wearing black and yellow...1966 wrote:Thanks Stinger.
Appreciate it.
Before my time but seems amazing our "greatest ever" player was swapped for a guy that lasted 2 weeks.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Your version of events, Stinger, match exactly what I have always been led to believe.
Jeansy was a pretty black and white individual with no grey area. There was plenty of rumours about Stewie's off field behavior at the time but little said openly. It has been largely swept away with the sands of time. It changes nothing though; Stewie was the best I have seen. I personally reckon he was a little past his prime when he left; Hafey rejuvenated him playing him as a half-forward a lot of the time.
Jeans fell for the mistake of playing Barrott at full forward, where he had some previous success pinch-hitting for the Tigers. Why he never just threw him in the middle we'll never know - he wasn't called "Bustling Billy" for nothing and he was a magnificent kick.
Jeansy was a pretty black and white individual with no grey area. There was plenty of rumours about Stewie's off field behavior at the time but little said openly. It has been largely swept away with the sands of time. It changes nothing though; Stewie was the best I have seen. I personally reckon he was a little past his prime when he left; Hafey rejuvenated him playing him as a half-forward a lot of the time.
Jeans fell for the mistake of playing Barrott at full forward, where he had some previous success pinch-hitting for the Tigers. Why he never just threw him in the middle we'll never know - he wasn't called "Bustling Billy" for nothing and he was a magnificent kick.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
I remember Barrot as being pretty one dimensional. Burst out of the centre and bomb it long. Couldn't/wouldn't change even though it didn't fit in with the way St Kilda wanted him to play.
summertime and the living is easy ........
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Yeah, dual premiership centreman, also a Richmond B&F winner, Team of the Century Player and Richmond Hall of Fame inductee.Gershwin wrote:I remember Barrot as being pretty one dimensional. Burst out of the centre and bomb it long. Couldn't/wouldn't change even though it didn't fit in with the way St Kilda wanted him to play.
Didn't fit in with StKilda so they chopped him by Round 3.
Obviously, far too one dimensional for the Saints, eh, Gershwin
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Easily the worst player swap in the history of AFL / VFL, all the same.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
with the greene for king and scott a close second....we always get reamed....Trev from the Bush wrote:Yeah, dual premiership centreman, also a Richmond B&F winner, Team of the Century Player and Richmond Hall of Fame inductee.Gershwin wrote:I remember Barrot as being pretty one dimensional. Burst out of the centre and bomb it long. Couldn't/wouldn't change even though it didn't fit in with the way St Kilda wanted him to play.
Didn't fit in with StKilda so they chopped him by Round 3.
Obviously, far too one dimensional for the Saints, eh, Gershwin![]()
Easily the worst player swap in the history of AFL / VFL, all the same.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
St Kilda FC @stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
saintbrat wrote:St Kilda FC @stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!
I reckon its delayed because he hasn't worked out if its Ian Stewart or Sean Godsell at number one.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
I haven't really checked out all the 25 and was wondering if Paul Temay made the list?plugger66 wrote:saintbrat wrote:St Kilda FC @stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!
I reckon its delayed because he hasn't worked out if its Ian Stewart or Sean Godsell at number one.
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Jacks Back wrote:I haven't really checked out all the 25 and was wondering if Paul Temay made the list?plugger66 wrote:saintbrat wrote:St Kilda FC @stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!
I reckon its delayed because he hasn't worked out if its Ian Stewart or Sean Godsell at number one.
6. Just above Lenny and David Winbanks.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-01-1 ... top-25-no1
1. Ian Stewart (1)
Born: July 14, 1943
Debut: Round 1, 1963
Games: 205
Goals: 80
Height: 180cm
Weight: 78kg
One of the game's greatest ever footballers. He joined the Saints without any fanfare and the shy Tasmanian even purchased his own training guernsey rather than ask for one. He was totally fearless and his style of marking while backing into a pack became a trademark.
He suffered a bad knock in his first game, but was able to battle on. He soon moved from the wing to take over the centre role from state man Lance Oswald. Other clubs became aware of his great talent and he was frequently a target.
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1. Ian Stewart (1)
Born: July 14, 1943
Debut: Round 1, 1963
Games: 205
Goals: 80
Height: 180cm
Weight: 78kg
One of the game's greatest ever footballers. He joined the Saints without any fanfare and the shy Tasmanian even purchased his own training guernsey rather than ask for one. He was totally fearless and his style of marking while backing into a pack became a trademark.
He suffered a bad knock in his first game, but was able to battle on. He soon moved from the wing to take over the centre role from state man Lance Oswald. Other clubs became aware of his great talent and he was frequently a target.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Never saw Stewart play but if anyone can rate a better player than Plugger he must've been a superfreak, unless Russ is related.
Can't understand why you'd rate Harvs above Roo either
Can't understand why you'd rate Harvs above Roo either
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
saintspremiers wrote:Never saw Stewart play but if anyone can rate a better player than Plugger he must've been a superfreak, unless Russ is related.
Can't understand why you'd rate Harvs above Roo either
Because its his opinion and not anyone elses.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
In order to be rated the best Saint ever I believe you must have longevity at that club. For that reason Stewart and Baldock are eliminated as they only played 127 and 119 games each respectively for the Saints. I'm not advocating quantity of games over quality of games , just that it is important to have a combination of both.
For this reason I am left with Reiwoldt , Harvey , Lockett and Barker.
If Loyalty is the defining issue then you can't go past Barks. 230 games the most by any player in the AFL/VFL history without playing a final. Sacrificed far too much for the club. Had huge offers from other clubs ( especially Collingwood as Barks was going out with Tom Hafey's daughter at the time ). Gave back a car he won so the club could raffle it and accepted 22.5 cents in the dollar when the club was in serious financial trouble.
If Ability is the defining issue how can you go past Plugger . 898 goals in 183 games at an average of nearly 5 a game . And don't forget that we won the wooden spoon in 5 of his first 6 years. If he had played in a decent team and avoided injuries and suspensions he may have kicked 2000 goals. He was the reason a lot of supporters went to the footy in the 80's and early 90's.
For a combination of Loyalty and ability Reiwoldt and Harvey are hard to split. The only question mark I have ( and which can't be answered ) is whether Roo and Harves would have been as loyal if they were playing in unsuccessful teams. We hope they would've.. For what it's worth in my humble opinion.
1/ Lockett
2/ Barker
3/ Reiwoldt
4/ Harvey
5/ Baldock
6/ Stewart
For this reason I am left with Reiwoldt , Harvey , Lockett and Barker.
If Loyalty is the defining issue then you can't go past Barks. 230 games the most by any player in the AFL/VFL history without playing a final. Sacrificed far too much for the club. Had huge offers from other clubs ( especially Collingwood as Barks was going out with Tom Hafey's daughter at the time ). Gave back a car he won so the club could raffle it and accepted 22.5 cents in the dollar when the club was in serious financial trouble.
If Ability is the defining issue how can you go past Plugger . 898 goals in 183 games at an average of nearly 5 a game . And don't forget that we won the wooden spoon in 5 of his first 6 years. If he had played in a decent team and avoided injuries and suspensions he may have kicked 2000 goals. He was the reason a lot of supporters went to the footy in the 80's and early 90's.
For a combination of Loyalty and ability Reiwoldt and Harvey are hard to split. The only question mark I have ( and which can't be answered ) is whether Roo and Harves would have been as loyal if they were playing in unsuccessful teams. We hope they would've.. For what it's worth in my humble opinion.
1/ Lockett
2/ Barker
3/ Reiwoldt
4/ Harvey
5/ Baldock
6/ Stewart
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Russell's explanation
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-01-2 ... 25-wrap-up
You can ask Russell why his choices tonight ( Tuesday 20th )
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http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-01-2 ... 25-wrap-up
You can ask Russell why his choices tonight ( Tuesday 20th )
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Join Club Historian Russell Holmesby at 8pm TONIGHT for a Twitter takeover!
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#Top25
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Yeah I'm curious too as to why Barrott flopped - I remember my old man and grandfathers talking about him being too much of a pants man, never gelled with the other players and no one would pass it to himstinger wrote:he was never happy at the saints..nor carlton...never settled after leaving the tigers...i think his heart was with them....1966 wrote:I have been trying to find info on the Stewart Barrott swap.
Why did Barrott only play two games at St kilda?
Kicked 3 in his first game and was gone 2 weeks later.
Could have been handy in the 71 grand final.
Meanwhile Stewart went on the win another flag and Brownlow.
..someone else will know more...
I guess I'm looking for clarity amidstt generational gossip and hearsay
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
What is a pants man?HardSaint wrote:Yeah I'm curious too as to why Barrott flopped - I remember my old man and grandfathers talking about him being too much of a pants man, never gelled with the other players and no one would pass it to himstinger wrote:he was never happy at the saints..nor carlton...never settled after leaving the tigers...i think his heart was with them....1966 wrote:I have been trying to find info on the Stewart Barrott swap.
Why did Barrott only play two games at St kilda?
Kicked 3 in his first game and was gone 2 weeks later.
Could have been handy in the 71 grand final.
Meanwhile Stewart went on the win another flag and Brownlow.
..someone else will know more...
I guess I'm looking for clarity amidstt generational gossip and hearsay
I grew up with the Barrott boys. They lived around the corner from us. All of them very good footballers (Bill, Wes & Louie) and nice kids. I think Wes played with Richmond too. Actually I could kick a stab pass better than Billy
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We kids used to play weekly matches, footy or cricket. Didn't matter what the season was. For cricket we used to toss the bat to find out which team would be Australia and which would be England. Real Ashes Test cricket!!!!
Kids from the Court we lived in would play against kids from the street Bill lived in. Bill was always captain of his street. The matches would go for however long it took. Usually until one side was undermanned because the mothers had called their kid(s) in for lunch or dinner. The matches were always played on the road, if the ball went onto the verge where the grass was, it was out of bounds. Our boundary umps were the little toddlers, too small to play in the team. That was when you would get a breather, when one of these little kids had to run to retrieve the ball. Can't ever recall us having a field (central) umpire. We just knew the rules and abided by giving a free kick to your opponents if it was an obvious free.
Because the games were played on the road, you can imagine most of us had lots of skin off our elbows, knees and buttocks. Every so often, we had to clear the goal posts from the road to let a car drive into the street. The ages in these matches ranged from about 6 - 13 years, so the sizes and abilities of the kids varied enormously. And if one side was made up with a lot of younger kids, they were allowed to have more players in their side. There was no scientific method of working this out, but our handicapping system was rather spot on..........can't recall too many blow outs. Billy's team won most of the matches over the years.
Billy eventually grew out of street footy in his early teens and played for a local club, think it was Ashburton, where he soon came under notice...... he had to play for Richmond because where he lived was Richmond's zone. A few other local lads ended up playing for Richmond over the years.
Does a pants man have anything to do with being gay?
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
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Don't think kids can play carefree in the streets like that anymore........ poor possums don't seem to have any free time to make up sides and just play to their own rules etc and include all the kids in the street in the game. Nowadays all their sport is organised, and so many kids don't even know the other children who live in their street.
One good thing I notice in my local park, with the junior footy teams playing. Girls play in the same footy side as the boys.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Thanks for that Loris, but a pants man is far from gay - a pants man loves the ladies, often out of line
The word was he showed interest in other players girlfriends to the obvious chagrin of his new team mates
He had an issue fitting in is what I understand , but was hoping someone could shed some light
The word was he showed interest in other players girlfriends to the obvious chagrin of his new team mates
He had an issue fitting in is what I understand , but was hoping someone could shed some light
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Billy Barrot was a good player, and was close to a champion - in fact two champions - Francis Bourke and Dick Clay. These two played on the wings and were both 185cm tall - that's 6ft 1in. Both could kick over 65 metres and mark overhead and both had excellent defensive aspects to their game (both played full back later in their careers). They enabled Barrot to run free. Hafey's style was almost all attack - that is - as long as we kick more goals that the opposition, we will win. It worked most of the time. Our style of play was based on defence - it also worked most of the time.
Whenever the Saints played Richmond, Clay and Bourke would kill us. Billy Barrot played against us in 1967 (and did well), but was absent when we played them in 1968, 1969 and 1970. Ian Stewart also missed most of these games through injury.
The swap was always "one sided". We got the short straw, but Ian Stewart and the "Club" no longer got on. I suppose that really meant he and Allan Jeans no longer got on. From Ian Stewart's point of view, he was convinced that the club would play him when he wasn't fit. There is some truth in that. From the Club's point of view, Stewart's drinking hindered his recovery from minor injuries. The fact that he went largely dry in 1971, played every game bar one and won his third Brownlow with Richmond gives some truth to that.
Billy Barrot's first game with us in 1971 was part of a smashing we gave Geelong at Geelong. He kicked three goals and four behinds. Things looked superficially good. His next game was to be his last for us. Certainly, his lack of a defensive side showed up. Others have spoken of "personal" issues. I heard talk but had no real knowledge of that. He finished up playing his last 12 games of VFL football with Carlton in the same year.
So is Ian Stewart number 1? It is so difficult to choose between champions. Hopefully, in the next ten years, that choice will become harder for Saints fans.
Whenever the Saints played Richmond, Clay and Bourke would kill us. Billy Barrot played against us in 1967 (and did well), but was absent when we played them in 1968, 1969 and 1970. Ian Stewart also missed most of these games through injury.
The swap was always "one sided". We got the short straw, but Ian Stewart and the "Club" no longer got on. I suppose that really meant he and Allan Jeans no longer got on. From Ian Stewart's point of view, he was convinced that the club would play him when he wasn't fit. There is some truth in that. From the Club's point of view, Stewart's drinking hindered his recovery from minor injuries. The fact that he went largely dry in 1971, played every game bar one and won his third Brownlow with Richmond gives some truth to that.
Billy Barrot's first game with us in 1971 was part of a smashing we gave Geelong at Geelong. He kicked three goals and four behinds. Things looked superficially good. His next game was to be his last for us. Certainly, his lack of a defensive side showed up. Others have spoken of "personal" issues. I heard talk but had no real knowledge of that. He finished up playing his last 12 games of VFL football with Carlton in the same year.
So is Ian Stewart number 1? It is so difficult to choose between champions. Hopefully, in the next ten years, that choice will become harder for Saints fans.
Last edited by perfectionist on Wed 21 Jan 2015 1:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Only 127 games and walked out on us. He was also a nightmare to manage, according to the coach himself. I had the pleasure of having Jeansy as a work colleague in the early 1980's. He was not a fan of Stewart, who was a cross dressing, alcoholic. Jeansy just couldn't tolerate him as a man, even if he was sublimely skilled. Better than Lockett, Baldock and Harvey? I admire your work, Russell, but on this one you have temporarily taken leave of your senses.
Just compare Baldock the man, to Stewart, who was a low life. What about the suspicious arson attacks that burnt down his hotels and a home. Nearly killed a young traffic copper also in the seventies when he refused to pull over because he was pissed and wearing a dress. Dragged the poor copper for some distance before he dropped. I remember Stewart from when he ran the now defunct Hampton Hotel. Always found him to be evasive and dishonest.
We always considered him to be a rather unsophisticated, low level, petty crook. I know that this competition was about footballing ability, but surely character also comes into it. Even the occasional "naughty boys" in Winmar and Lockett were no angels, but they were nowhere near as fatally flawed as the man who also operated under several aliases.
Just compare Baldock the man, to Stewart, who was a low life. What about the suspicious arson attacks that burnt down his hotels and a home. Nearly killed a young traffic copper also in the seventies when he refused to pull over because he was pissed and wearing a dress. Dragged the poor copper for some distance before he dropped. I remember Stewart from when he ran the now defunct Hampton Hotel. Always found him to be evasive and dishonest.
We always considered him to be a rather unsophisticated, low level, petty crook. I know that this competition was about footballing ability, but surely character also comes into it. Even the occasional "naughty boys" in Winmar and Lockett were no angels, but they were nowhere near as fatally flawed as the man who also operated under several aliases.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
White Winmar wrote:Only 127 games and walked out on us. He was also a nightmare to manage, according to the coach himself. I had the pleasure of having Jeansy as a work colleague in the early 1980's. He was not a fan of Stewart, who was a cross dressing, alcoholic. Jeansy just couldn't tolerate him as a man, even if he was sublimely skilled. Better than Lockett, Baldock and Harvey? I admire your work, Russell, but on this one you have temporarily taken leave of your senses.
Just compare Baldock the man, to Stewart, who was a low life. What about the suspicious arson attacks that burnt down his hotels and a home. Nearly killed a young traffic copper also in the seventies when he refused to pull over because he was pissed and wearing a dress. Dragged the poor copper for some distance before he dropped. I remember Stewart from when he ran the now defunct Hampton Hotel. Always found him to be evasive and dishonest.
We always considered him to be a rather unsophisticated, low level, petty crook. I know that this competition was about footballing ability, but surely character also comes into it. Even the occasional "naughty boys" in Winmar and Lockett were no angels, but they were nowhere near as fatally flawed as the man who also operated under several aliases.
Does the man or him leaving mean he wasn't the best? I rate best on one criteria only and that's what they do on the ground. I wouldn't have Stewart as best because my Dad said he wasn't as good as Lockett but I don't think him leaving a club or crossing dressing makes any difference to their ability on the ground. I think your police background may and I do say may be effecting your judgement.
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
Like you plugger, I believe Lockett was far and away our greatest, even with his character flaws. I also base my judgements on those of my old man, who unlike me, got to see Stewart, Baldock's and Lockett's entire careers. He just laughed when I asked him who was the greatest saint of all. Lockett by a mile, he used to say. I place great store in what he told me, not just because he was a reasonable judge, but that he saw them all play their entire careers with the saints.
I agree, p66, there's no doubt my career also affected my judgement, but deep down I know that while Jeansy was in awe of Stewart's talent, and often praised him in public, he knew, deep down that he could never respect him as a man, and that was the most important criterion by which he judged you.
Anyhow, it's just an opinion piece, so will have to agree to disagree with Russell.
I agree, p66, there's no doubt my career also affected my judgement, but deep down I know that while Jeansy was in awe of Stewart's talent, and often praised him in public, he knew, deep down that he could never respect him as a man, and that was the most important criterion by which he judged you.
Anyhow, it's just an opinion piece, so will have to agree to disagree with Russell.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
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Re: Russell's Top 25 Saints
HardSaint wrote:Thanks for that Loris, but a pants man is far from gay - a pants man loves the ladies, often out of line
The word was he showed interest in other players girlfriends to the obvious chagrin of his new team mates
He had an issue fitting in is what I understand , but was hoping someone could shed some light
Ta "Hard Saint"............. it's a truism 'one lives and learns'.............. I've just learnt a new saying!
I'll file it away, until I can use it at the most 'inappropriate moment' in an innocent manner ofcourse; and, delight in the shocked faces as the listeners think ' Did that sweet (?) little old lady say that?
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