Rookie draft selections

[St Ick]

It's like BM has left and passed the baton to you Con.

The only thing not going Sinclairs way is that he wasn't a big name.

He grew up with LMac and Billings - often touted as being the better sportsman of the three growing up. Concentrated on cricket until last year when he had a real crack at footy - he is very nice off both feet, is a fantastic character and can potentially provide that run and spread which we are craving - not lightning but smart like Billings. Yes he is speculative, but is about as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie with so much potential upside in a professional environment it's scary.

Prior to the rookie draft I asked for someone who has some elite qualities, but is skinny, or is newish to the game. Well, that's Jack my friend.

I'd much prefer someone like Sinclair getting picked over a one sided butcher in the rookie draft.

Who is LMac? What do you mean by 'fantastic character' exactly? What do you mean by 'big name' exactly? He was a known known. He played TAC cup and VFL and was overlooked by 18 clubs in 5 rounds of the National draft. He couldnt have been more local or in a more visible area. Melb eastern suburbs. Hardly a smoky or hard work by our recruiters. What do you mean by 'grew up' with? Are we drafting players childhood mates now? Is this the AFL or Ammos?

Amazing that only people who live fairly close to the club seem to have 'great characters' and come from great families isnt it. Everyone who doesnt live with 100km must be a d**khead I guess.

'as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie'

really?
So he will be the best rookie pick in AFL history? You dont think you might be exaggerating just a pinch?

Unlike BM I dont criticise the club 100%. I give plenty of praise when something good occurs. But gee whizz just cos I dont think all 40 players on our list are going to win a Brownlow , 2 flags and a Norm Smith each hardly makes me a harsh critic. The reality is in 3 years 15-20 of them will be gone. Half of those 15-20 are going to be under 23.

I hope hes good. But lets keep our strides well and truly fastened. Some ridiculous fantasies take place at this time of year.

The reality is if there was an AFL under 23 side picked tomorrow we wouldnt have a single player in the squad. So im not being hyper critical BM style but im not going to sit here and listen to every single thing the club leaks out - some of which we know to be nonsense.

LMac = Luke McDonald

Fantastic character would refer to our emphasis on drafting kids with good character, good upbringing and good attitude/work ethic.

He wasn't a 'big name' in that he wasn't listed in the phantom drafts, so wasn't a 'popular choice' amongst those amateurs who do a phantom outside of the first round or two.

He 'grew up with' those boys, not saying that was a factor - but they played elite sport together and pushed each other.

He declined to play 18s and chose cricket, then played this year as a 19 year old, probably having seen his mates selected and decided to give it a shot. The fact that he wasn't selected prior to the rookie draft doesn't make him a dud, he is probably just a bit more speculative due to his unusual pathway. Plenty of rookies make it these days but most have unusual pathways like that Glenn bloke.

Your comment is like saying Goddard is a dud because every team bar Hawthorn passed up the chance to draft him.

I think you are reading too much into the fact we got just Vic lads, last year we drafted two Tasmanians in the rookie draft and spent first round picks on a kid from WA and one from SA.

There is no guarantee that Sinclair or Payne will even play a game - but there is no reason to be negative about them as there is very little wrong with their selections. In fact some would even argue (said on Big Footy) that all six were rated internally in our top 38 for the entire draft, if you want to believe that.

I want to see the optimistic Con, the one who posts pictures of trucks or tanks when talking about our new recruits like Murdoch was. These kids haven't yet shown whether they will or won't make it, so choose to believe they might or choose to believe they won't.

[Con Gorozidis]

It's like BM has left and passed the baton to you Con.

The only thing not going Sinclairs way is that he wasn't a big name.

He grew up with LMac and Billings - often touted as being the better sportsman of the three growing up. Concentrated on cricket until last year when he had a real crack at footy - he is very nice off both feet, is a fantastic character and can potentially provide that run and spread which we are craving - not lightning but smart like Billings. Yes he is speculative, but is about as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie with so much potential upside in a professional environment it's scary.

Prior to the rookie draft I asked for someone who has some elite qualities, but is skinny, or is newish to the game. Well, that's Jack my friend.

I'd much prefer someone like Sinclair getting picked over a one sided butcher in the rookie draft.

Who is LMac? What do you mean by 'fantastic character' exactly? What do you mean by 'big name' exactly? He was a known known. He played TAC cup and VFL and was overlooked by 18 clubs in 5 rounds of the National draft. He couldnt have been more local or in a more visible area. Melb eastern suburbs. Hardly a smoky or hard work by our recruiters. What do you mean by 'grew up' with? Are we drafting players childhood mates now? Is this the AFL or Ammos?

Amazing that only people who live fairly close to the club seem to have 'great characters' and come from great families isnt it. Everyone who doesnt live with 100km must be a d**khead I guess.

'as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie'

really?
So he will be the best rookie pick in AFL history? You dont think you might be exaggerating just a pinch?

Unlike BM I dont criticise the club 100%. I give plenty of praise when something good occurs. But gee whizz just cos I dont think all 40 players on our list are going to win a Brownlow , 2 flags and a Norm Smith each hardly makes me a harsh critic. The reality is in 3 years 15-20 of them will be gone. Half of those 15-20 are going to be under 23.

I hope hes good. But lets keep our strides well and truly fastened. Some ridiculous fantasies take place at this time of year.

The reality is if there was an AFL under 23 side picked tomorrow we wouldnt have a single player in the squad. So im not being hyper critical BM style but im not going to sit here and listen to every single thing the club leaks out - some of which we know to be nonsense.

LMac = Luke McDonald

Fantastic character would refer to our emphasis on drafting kids with good character, good upbringing and good attitude/work ethic.

He wasn't a 'big name' in that he wasn't listed in the phantom drafts, so wasn't a 'popular choice' amongst those amateurs who do a phantom outside of the first round or two.

He 'grew up with' those boys, not saying that was a factor - but they played elite sport together and pushed each other.

He declined to play 18s and chose cricket, then played this year as a 19 year old, probably having seen his mates selected and decided to give it a shot. The fact that he wasn't selected prior to the rookie draft doesn't make him a dud, he is probably just a bit more speculative due to his unusual pathway. Plenty of rookies make it these days but most have unusual pathways like that Glenn bloke.

Your comment is like saying Goddard is a dud because every team bar Hawthorn passed up the chance to draft him.

I think you are reading too much into the fact we got just Vic lads, last year we drafted two Tasmanians in the rookie draft and spent first round picks on a kid from WA and one from SA.

There is no guarantee that Sinclair or Payne will even play a game - but there is no reason to be negative about them as there is very little wrong with their selections. In fact some would even argue (said on Big Footy) that all six were rated internally in our top 38 for the entire draft, if you want to believe that.

I want to see the optimistic Con, the one who posts pictures of trucks or tanks when talking about our new recruits like Murdoch was. These kids haven't yet shown whether they will or won't make it, so choose to believe they might or choose to believe they won't.

Hope the kid is good. My general point is there clearly a bias on the 'character factor' for locals because the recruiters have more opportunity to assess this. This is noones faults. Just the nature of geography.

Ill put it another way - Hawks have 19 non-Vicorians on their list Saints have 18.

Seems pretty similar right?

But only 3 of these 19 Hawks are old - Hale, Lake, Burgoyne

Of the Saints 18 - 5 of them are at the end of their career - Roo, Fisher, Schneids, Ray, Gilbo (+Lenny of course).

So in terms of proportion. During our 'up' years we had a high proportion of interstaters - we were a truly national side.

That proportion has dropped in recent times. Now of course these things are cyclical and maybe there is no medium term trend downwards. But it could also point to a lack of resources and scope in our recruitment. We are set to drop from 50% interstaters to 33%.

I'm not saying I am correct or maybe it doesnt matter as long as we are truly just picking the best players (in that case I dont give a toss where they are from). But I am proposing a hypothesis or a possible 'sign' to be aware of. I make no apologies for highlighting this. Are we missing players? Are we not going hard, far and wider enough? Are we just relying on local recommendations and networks a little too much? Is this 'doing a Melbourne'? Has our NZ focus take our eye off the ball? Maybe its an all-of-AFL trend in the last couple of years? Have SA and WA got inferior development programs? What about qld and nsw?

E.g One very possible reason for the lower # of interstaters is the 'development zone' rules. GWS, GC Swans and Lions have been able to take their zone kids at big discounts. This has certainly benefited them at the expense of Vic clubs.

It is a national comp and we need to look for and wider for talent. The reality is if you analyse their premierhisp sides, the hawks have been unbelievably good at this for a long while (even back to the 80s).

Its a valid discussion point and I wont be shouted down by people calling me BM etc.

[Linton Lodger]

I think there are a lot of positions up for grabs so it'll be pretty interesting who gets the first nod

If Saad puts in a good pre-season and shows what he had in is his 1st season where do you put Templeton and Billings?

Does Billings start going through the middle?

If Bruce plays forward where does that leave White and Lee?

Half backs - Webster, Wright, Savage, Newnes, Gilbert - who do you pick?

How many rucks can you play - Hickey, Longer or both?

Where is Markworth and Sipposs at?

Does Weller hold his spot with a full list?

Can Ross improve and be a regular inside mid?

It's going to be one of the least predictable pre-seasons we've had for some time

Good summary of the major questions

my pet player who I'm tipping is Bull Murdoch...reckon he is set for a break out year based on his last few games and reported running levels off season.

Would like to see him as a mid-rotation and swapping with Billings/ Templeton in forward line.

Wright needs to find a place on the Wing

Ross is going to need to have a big year IMO to stay in contention for the best 22....not yet in the best 25 for mine

I understand your enthusiasm for Murdoch, I think he may be a gun. Not a view shared by many.

[plugger66]

It's like BM has left and passed the baton to you Con.

The only thing not going Sinclairs way is that he wasn't a big name.

He grew up with LMac and Billings - often touted as being the better sportsman of the three growing up. Concentrated on cricket until last year when he had a real crack at footy - he is very nice off both feet, is a fantastic character and can potentially provide that run and spread which we are craving - not lightning but smart like Billings. Yes he is speculative, but is about as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie with so much potential upside in a professional environment it's scary.

Prior to the rookie draft I asked for someone who has some elite qualities, but is skinny, or is newish to the game. Well, that's Jack my friend.

I'd much prefer someone like Sinclair getting picked over a one sided butcher in the rookie draft.

Who is LMac? What do you mean by 'fantastic character' exactly? What do you mean by 'big name' exactly? He was a known known. He played TAC cup and VFL and was overlooked by 18 clubs in 5 rounds of the National draft. He couldnt have been more local or in a more visible area. Melb eastern suburbs. Hardly a smoky or hard work by our recruiters. What do you mean by 'grew up' with? Are we drafting players childhood mates now? Is this the AFL or Ammos?

Amazing that only people who live fairly close to the club seem to have 'great characters' and come from great families isnt it. Everyone who doesnt live with 100km must be a d**khead I guess.

'as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie'

really?
So he will be the best rookie pick in AFL history? You dont think you might be exaggerating just a pinch?

Unlike BM I dont criticise the club 100%. I give plenty of praise when something good occurs. But gee whizz just cos I dont think all 40 players on our list are going to win a Brownlow , 2 flags and a Norm Smith each hardly makes me a harsh critic. The reality is in 3 years 15-20 of them will be gone. Half of those 15-20 are going to be under 23.

I hope hes good. But lets keep our strides well and truly fastened. Some ridiculous fantasies take place at this time of year.

The reality is if there was an AFL under 23 side picked tomorrow we wouldnt have a single player in the squad. So im not being hyper critical BM style but im not going to sit here and listen to every single thing the club leaks out - some of which we know to be nonsense.

LMac = Luke McDonald

Fantastic character would refer to our emphasis on drafting kids with good character, good upbringing and good attitude/work ethic.

He wasn't a 'big name' in that he wasn't listed in the phantom drafts, so wasn't a 'popular choice' amongst those amateurs who do a phantom outside of the first round or two.

He 'grew up with' those boys, not saying that was a factor - but they played elite sport together and pushed each other.

He declined to play 18s and chose cricket, then played this year as a 19 year old, probably having seen his mates selected and decided to give it a shot. The fact that he wasn't selected prior to the rookie draft doesn't make him a dud, he is probably just a bit more speculative due to his unusual pathway. Plenty of rookies make it these days but most have unusual pathways like that Glenn bloke.

Your comment is like saying Goddard is a dud because every team bar Hawthorn passed up the chance to draft him.

I think you are reading too much into the fact we got just Vic lads, last year we drafted two Tasmanians in the rookie draft and spent first round picks on a kid from WA and one from SA.

There is no guarantee that Sinclair or Payne will even play a game - but there is no reason to be negative about them as there is very little wrong with their selections. In fact some would even argue (said on Big Footy) that all six were rated internally in our top 38 for the entire draft, if you want to believe that.

I want to see the optimistic Con, the one who posts pictures of trucks or tanks when talking about our new recruits like Murdoch was. These kids haven't yet shown whether they will or won't make it, so choose to believe they might or choose to believe they won't.

Hope the kid is good. My general point is there clearly a bias on the 'character factor' for locals because the recruiters have more opportunity to assess this. This is noones faults. Just the nature of geography.

Ill put it another way - Hawks have 19 non-Vicorians on their list Saints have 18.

Seems pretty similar right?

But only 3 of these 19 Hawks are old - Hale, Lake, Burgoyne

Of the Saints 18 - 5 of them are at the end of their career - Roo, Fisher, Schneids, Ray, Gilbo (+Lenny of course).

So in terms of proportion. During our 'up' years we had a high proportion of interstaters - we were a truly national side.

That proportion has dropped in recent times. Now of course these things are cyclical and maybe there is no medium term trend downwards. But it could also point to a lack of resources and scope in our recruitment. We are set to drop from 50% interstaters to 33%.

I'm not saying I am correct or maybe it doesnt matter as long as we are truly just picking the best players (in that case I dont give a toss where they are from). But I am proposing a hypothesis or a possible 'sign' to be aware of. I make no apologies for highlighting this. Are we missing players? Are we not going hard, far and wider enough? Are we just relying on local recommendations and networks a little too much? Is this 'doing a Melbourne'? Has ur NZ focus take our eye off the ball? Maybe its an all-of-AFL trend in the last couple of years?

It is a national comp and we need to look for and wider for talent. The reality is if you analyse their premierhisp sides, the hawks have been unbelievably good at this for a long while (even back to the 80s).

Its a valid discussion point and I wont be shouted down by people calling me BM etc.

Seriously Con. 1 different interstate numbers and 2 that are older. That proves one thing and that is nothing. You do get stuck on topics and then become bored and then get stuck on another topic. This year its recruiting players to close to our club but when it is pointed out who we recruited last year we hear donuts. Of course the club is selecting the best player wherever they live but obviously if a kid from Sandy is rated the same as a kid from WA you would take the Sandy player Everytime.

[Linton Lodger]

It's like BM has left and passed the baton to you Con.

The only thing not going Sinclairs way is that he wasn't a big name.

He grew up with LMac and Billings - often touted as being the better sportsman of the three growing up. Concentrated on cricket until last year when he had a real crack at footy - he is very nice off both feet, is a fantastic character and can potentially provide that run and spread which we are craving - not lightning but smart like Billings. Yes he is speculative, but is about as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie with so much potential upside in a professional environment it's scary.

Prior to the rookie draft I asked for someone who has some elite qualities, but is skinny, or is newish to the game. Well, that's Jack my friend.

I'd much prefer someone like Sinclair getting picked over a one sided butcher in the rookie draft.

Here, here.

[Linton Lodger]

I

He grew up with LMac and Billings -

If you mean 'DMac' and you are telling me we just drafted two of Jack Billings childhood mates - I will microwave my membership if this information is actually correct.

Do we microwave memberships these days, rather than burn or rip up? I imagine the idea comes from the Richmond Supporters' Handbook of Novel Ways To Ritually Destroy Your Membership. Which no doubt includes a chapter instructing one in the art of accurately spitting at your coach.

[Con Gorozidis]

It's like BM has left and passed the baton to you Con.

The only thing not going Sinclairs way is that he wasn't a big name.

He grew up with LMac and Billings - often touted as being the better sportsman of the three growing up. Concentrated on cricket until last year when he had a real crack at footy - he is very nice off both feet, is a fantastic character and can potentially provide that run and spread which we are craving - not lightning but smart like Billings. Yes he is speculative, but is about as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie with so much potential upside in a professional environment it's scary.

Prior to the rookie draft I asked for someone who has some elite qualities, but is skinny, or is newish to the game. Well, that's Jack my friend.

I'd much prefer someone like Sinclair getting picked over a one sided butcher in the rookie draft.

Here, here.

Its 'hear hear' and who ever said we wanted a 'one-sided butcher'?

So you are all saying you all feel confident with a local boy from a good local family?

Of course you do.

[plugger66]

It's like BM has left and passed the baton to you Con.

The only thing not going Sinclairs way is that he wasn't a big name.

He grew up with LMac and Billings - often touted as being the better sportsman of the three growing up. Concentrated on cricket until last year when he had a real crack at footy - he is very nice off both feet, is a fantastic character and can potentially provide that run and spread which we are craving - not lightning but smart like Billings. Yes he is speculative, but is about as good a pick as you'd get in a rookie with so much potential upside in a professional environment it's scary.

Prior to the rookie draft I asked for someone who has some elite qualities, but is skinny, or is newish to the game. Well, that's Jack my friend.

I'd much prefer someone like Sinclair getting picked over a one sided butcher in the rookie draft.

Here, here.

Its 'hear hear' and who ever said we wanted a 'one-sided butcher'?

So you are all saying you all feel confident with a local boy from a good local family?

Of course you do.

Seriously Con. You do act like a little kid sometimes. Who cares where a player is from or who they are mates with.

[Con Gorozidis]

Seriously Con. You do act like a little kid sometimes. Who cares where a player is from or who they are mates with.

Well not me. It was St Ick who wrote a big story how great a pick up this kid was because of his childhood friendships.
The fact is I raise a very valid point yet once again your small little insular mind just resorts to personally attacking me. rather than discuss the issue about the change in recruiting patterns - you just go ad hominem.

I wont lower myself to a personal response.

But what is also childish is just accepting everything the club says as gospel. 1 flag in 120 years and a record number of spoons including being 18th from 18 and in debt currently tells me they dont always get it right.....

[plugger66]

Seriously Con. You do act like a little kid sometimes. Who cares where a player is from or who they are mates with.

Well not me. It was St Ick who wrote a big story how great a pick up this kid was because of his childhood friendships.
The fact is I raise a very valid point yet once again your small little insular mind just resorts to personally attacking me. rather than discuss the issue about the change in recruiting patterns - you just go ad hominem.

I wont lower myself to a personal response.

But what is also childish is just accepting everything the club says as gospel. 1 flag in 120 years and a record number of spoons including being 18th from 18 and in debt currently tells me they dont always get it right.....

Who is accepting everything the club has done. I wasn't happy with the amount of players the club took thios year and expressed it and copped it from some on here for expressing that. What I don't buy is childish statements that we are just getting players close to our club. Its rubbish as shown by who we recruited last season. And Paddy is from Geelong anyway when we could have taken a family friend of AR. Speak common sense and you wont cop something back but if you don't then expect a reply.

[dragit]

That proportion has dropped in recent times. Now of course these things are cyclical and maybe there is no medium term trend downwards. But it could also point to a lack of resources and scope in our recruitment. We are set to drop from 50% interstaters to 33%.

I'm not saying I am correct or maybe it doesnt matter as long as we are truly just picking the best players (in that case I dont give a toss where they are from). But I am proposing a hypothesis or a possible 'sign' to be aware of. I make no apologies for highlighting this. Are we missing players? Are we not going hard, far and wider enough? Are we just relying on local recommendations and networks a little too much? Is this 'doing a Melbourne'? Has our NZ focus take our eye off the ball? Maybe its an all-of-AFL trend in the last couple of years? Have SA and WA got inferior development programs? What about qld and nsw?

Its a valid discussion point and I wont be shouted down by people calling me BM etc.

People are likening you to BM, because you are being irrationally negative.


Why are you getting worked up about one draft when we have clearly been bringing in players from all over the country.

In the last couple of years we have brought in loads of players from interstate, a couple originally from Vic obviously.

Membrey, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Murdoch, Lee, Hickey, Milera, Roberton, Longer, Bruce, Webster, Maister, Shenton,

Our recruiting resources have increased dramatically in the last few years, we are travelling all over the country to meet players and their families.

Maybe the best players available at our picks this year happened to be Victorian?

A trend is more than one. Your point would be a valid discussion topic if it were truly a trend. It isn't.

[Con Gorozidis]

That proportion has dropped in recent times. Now of course these things are cyclical and maybe there is no medium term trend downwards. But it could also point to a lack of resources and scope in our recruitment. We are set to drop from 50% interstaters to 33%.

I'm not saying I am correct or maybe it doesnt matter as long as we are truly just picking the best players (in that case I dont give a toss where they are from). But I am proposing a hypothesis or a possible 'sign' to be aware of. I make no apologies for highlighting this. Are we missing players? Are we not going hard, far and wider enough? Are we just relying on local recommendations and networks a little too much? Is this 'doing a Melbourne'? Has our NZ focus take our eye off the ball? Maybe its an all-of-AFL trend in the last couple of years? Have SA and WA got inferior development programs? What about qld and nsw?

Its a valid discussion point and I wont be shouted down by people calling me BM etc.

People are likening you to BM, because you are being irrationally negative.


Why are you getting worked up about one draft when we have clearly been bringing in players from all over the country.

In the last couple of years we have brought in loads of players from interstate, a couple originally from Vic obviously.

Membrey, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Murdoch, Lee, Hickey, Milera, Roberton, Longer, Bruce, Webster, Maister, Shenton,

Our recruiting resources have increased dramatically in the last few years, we are travelling all over the country to meet players and their families.

Maybe the best players available at our picks this year happened to be Victorian?

A trend is more than one. Your point would be a valid discussion topic if it were truly a trend. It isn't.

Have you analysed the stats? If so present your findings. The fact is I made an effort and was able to show some preliminary results. The discussion on whether the zoning rules have impacted on this is entirely legitimate as is the discussion about a focus on 'family values' leading to geographic bias in the decision making. If you read my post I said - maybe thats just the cards fell. I was open minded to that. But I also raised an original hypothesis.
Show me the interstate trips stats. Who went and when.

Also given we are 18th from 18. 1 flag in 120 years - I dont think it is me who is 'irrational'. What is 'irrational' is blindly thinking the club makes the right decisoins 100% of the time. Thats down right bonkers.

[gringo]

That proportion has dropped in recent times. Now of course these things are cyclical and maybe there is no medium term trend downwards. But it could also point to a lack of resources and scope in our recruitment. We are set to drop from 50% interstaters to 33%.

I'm not saying I am correct or maybe it doesnt matter as long as we are truly just picking the best players (in that case I dont give a toss where they are from). But I am proposing a hypothesis or a possible 'sign' to be aware of. I make no apologies for highlighting this. Are we missing players? Are we not going hard, far and wider enough? Are we just relying on local recommendations and networks a little too much? Is this 'doing a Melbourne'? Has our NZ focus take our eye off the ball? Maybe its an all-of-AFL trend in the last couple of years? Have SA and WA got inferior development programs? What about qld and nsw?

Its a valid discussion point and I wont be shouted down by people calling me BM etc.

People are likening you to BM, because you are being irrationally negative.


Why are you getting worked up about one draft when we have clearly been bringing in players from all over the country.

In the last couple of years we have brought in loads of players from interstate, a couple originally from Vic obviously.

Membrey, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Murdoch, Lee, Hickey, Milera, Roberton, Longer, Bruce, Webster, Maister, Shenton,

Our recruiting resources have increased dramatically in the last few years, we are travelling all over the country to meet players and their families.

Maybe the best players available at our picks this year happened to be Victorian?

A trend is more than one. Your point would be a valid discussion topic if it were truly a trend. It isn't.

It may even be a deliberate strategy because a local rookie is going to find being paid stuff all and having no certainty in your career doesn't make life easy. Someone who has to move across the country is going to find it even harder. I don't see a problem with our drafting in the last two years.

[dragit]

That proportion has dropped in recent times. Now of course these things are cyclical and maybe there is no medium term trend downwards. But it could also point to a lack of resources and scope in our recruitment. We are set to drop from 50% interstaters to 33%.

I'm not saying I am correct or maybe it doesnt matter as long as we are truly just picking the best players (in that case I dont give a toss where they are from). But I am proposing a hypothesis or a possible 'sign' to be aware of. I make no apologies for highlighting this. Are we missing players? Are we not going hard, far and wider enough? Are we just relying on local recommendations and networks a little too much? Is this 'doing a Melbourne'? Has our NZ focus take our eye off the ball? Maybe its an all-of-AFL trend in the last couple of years? Have SA and WA got inferior development programs? What about qld and nsw?

Its a valid discussion point and I wont be shouted down by people calling me BM etc.

People are likening you to BM, because you are being irrationally negative.


Why are you getting worked up about one draft when we have clearly been bringing in players from all over the country.

In the last couple of years we have brought in loads of players from interstate, a couple originally from Vic obviously.

Membrey, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Murdoch, Lee, Hickey, Milera, Roberton, Longer, Bruce, Webster, Maister, Shenton,

Our recruiting resources have increased dramatically in the last few years, we are travelling all over the country to meet players and their families.

Maybe the best players available at our picks this year happened to be Victorian?

A trend is more than one. Your point would be a valid discussion topic if it were truly a trend. It isn't.

Have you analysed the stats? If so present your findings. The fact is I made an effort and was able to show some preliminary results. The discussion on whether the zoning rules have impacted on this is entirely legitimate as is the discussion about a focus on 'family values' leading to geographic bias in the decision making. If you read my post I said - maybe thats just the cards fell. I was open minded to that. But I also raised an original hypothesis.
Show me the interstate trips stats. Who went and when.

Also given we are 18th from 18. 1 flag in 120 years - I dont think it is me who is 'irrational'. What is 'irrational' is blindly thinking the club makes the right decisoins 100% of the time. Thats down right bonkers.

Yes you are being irrational because you are suggesting that one year is a trend.

Collingwood with the biggest recruiting department in the comp just took
5 - De Goey - Oakleigh
9 - Moore - Oakleigh
30 - Maynard - Sandringham
48 - Goodyear - Calder
rookie 8 - Manteit - Sandringham

They must be incompetent, lazy and closed minded too yeah? Hawthorn took all Victorian players in the ND - lazy.

The fact is that most footballers come out of Victoria, particularly the early picks

20 of the first 31 in 2010
15 of the first 17 in 2011
18 of the first 29 in 2012
19 of the first 28 in 2013 - 2 of the interstate guys were taken by us.
25 of the first 33 in 2014

Why do you conclude that we have suddenly become lazy after bringing over a dozen intestate guys over the past 2-3 years?

Last year we had 25 non Victorian players on the list, I would suggest that is a pretty high percentage compared to most clubs.

No-one is saying the club makes the right decisions 100% of the time. But assuming we've made the wrong ones without offering an alternative is pure BM magic.

Who should we have taken instead of this years crop?

[PJ]

Saady's the interesting one here for me. If he can get back to some solid form and we've got any potential for upgrade it changes the whole balance of the team. Billings could move into the middle more and Membrey may push up the field.

[plugger66]

Saady's the interesting one here for me. If he can get back to some solid form and we've got any potential for upgrade it changes the whole balance of the team. Billings could move into the middle more and Membrey may push up the field.

Surely Billings is playing as a small forward because its good for him and not the team. Having Saad there confuses where we play Billings. We aren't going to play Billings in the middle just because Saad is back. he will play in the middle when he is ready. Lets face it, it matters little where either play because we will most likely lose anyway but it does matter for the long term development of Billings.

[PJ]

Saady's the interesting one here for me. If he can get back to some solid form and we've got any potential for upgrade it changes the whole balance of the team. Billings could move into the middle more and Membrey may push up the field.

Surely Billings is playing as a small forward because its good for him and not the team. Having Saad there confuses where we play Billings. We aren't going to play Billings in the middle just because Saad is back. he will play in the middle when he is ready. Lets face it, it matters little where either play because we will most likely lose anyway but it does matter for the long term development of Billings.

So if Saad warrants selection where do you play the 2 of them?

We didn't pick Saad just to get a feel good story. If he's in form pre-season and we can elevate him he plays.

Yes Billings is a priority but how many small forwards can we play that can't go through the middle? Saad isn't ideal for this role, Billings can play both and should start to go there.

[plugger66]

Saady's the interesting one here for me. If he can get back to some solid form and we've got any potential for upgrade it changes the whole balance of the team. Billings could move into the middle more and Membrey may push up the field.

Surely Billings is playing as a small forward because its good for him and not the team. Having Saad there confuses where we play Billings. We aren't going to play Billings in the middle just because Saad is back. he will play in the middle when he is ready. Lets face it, it matters little where either play because we will most likely lose anyway but it does matter for the long term development of Billings.

So if Saad warrants selection where do you play the 2 of them?

We didn't pick Saad just to get a feel good story. If he's in form pre-season and we can elevate him he plays.

Yes Billings is a priority but how many small forwards can we play that can't go through the middle? Saad isn't ideal for this role, Billings can play both and should start to go there.

Billings should start exactly where it will help us in 3 years time. I couldn't give a rats about Saad. He is filling in spots whilst we are down the bottom of the ladder.