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plugger66 wrote:Please don't compare us to Carlton and Collingwood.
A big part of the equation why these clubs are so wealthy is these ridiculous fixtures every year…
You fixture the wealthy clubs against the other wealthy clubs in prime time each year - Guess what - they get wealthier.
How are north, dogs, saints ever going to attract the member numbers of a rival that gets 7 times the amount of friday night games & more than twice the amount of free to air games?
It's just f****** ridiculous.
I think its like a good jockey. To be a good jockey you need a good horse but you only get on a good horse if you are a good jockey. We have had our chances with fixtures but still didn't crack 40k members. I have a serious question for you Dragit. Do you honestly say I wont buy a memberhip because of a poor fixture? I certainly don't. Its amazing how we foget our good fixtures just 3 or 4 years ago. Lets be totally honest here, if the pies had the worst fixture in the AFL they would still clearly have the biggest membership. It all gets back to the jockey and the horse.
St. Kilda supporters need to turn up! Collingwood aren't travelling very well, but their supporters still go. Where I live there are plenty of St Kilda jumpers at Auskick, at my kids' school and kinder, and supporters at my workplace. We are NOT a small club - we are a middle club. We dwarf Melbourne's, North's, Footscray's and Port's supporter numbers. In fact surveys say that we have a similar number of supporters as Geelong, and membership numbers bear this out. We did have over 40,000 members when we were contesting Grand Finals. If the support starts to actually turn up to games, like they did at the Bulldogs game this year consistently then we will get a better go on Saturday afternoons.
I'll say it again.
A draw should be about fairness.
Not about how to maximise attendances.
Scheduling clubs with low membership to
- 1 Friday night,
- 8 trips outside Victoria,
- only one of them covered on Foxtel and
- 4 home games in the deadzone
What do you think that will do to our membership?"
Yes - it will make it worse.
We and all clubs need and deserve equal treatment in the draw to get
- equal exposure to prime timeslots,
- equal free to air coverage and
- equal travelling.
That is fair.
That is what a proper competition does.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
millarsaint wrote:Collingwood are broadcast on channel seven more than twice we are. Surely this smudges poo into new membership opportunities or do we not care because we are sh*t? Seen but not heard in 2015. But that's ok because we get to watch Collingwood play in BLOCKBUSTERS.
I have a young family and for a number of reasons can't make Sunday games. So that leaves me with three afternoon games on Saturday one of which is an away game. Golly gee can't wait to buy my membership. Not.
Can't believe our CEO talking up bringing to life Sunday twilight games. 'Are you having a laugh? Is he having a laugh?' What are we idiots.
Looks like the Zebs again for me next year. Bring on Moorabbin 2017.
I'm in the same boat as you mate - this draw is terrible for young families.
A lot of young kids are heading towards bedtime around 7.30-8pm on Sundays, which even makes the 3.20pm starts a bit of a squeeze for us, considering the travel time going home.
I think our CEO is blowing smoke up our @sses trying to pretend twilight games are a good thing - which is pretty disappointing, as otherwise I think he's been good for our club.
Throughout the 80s and 90s I was living in Werribee and it was a bit of a hike getting to Moorabbin or Waverley each weekend, but that was fine because back then there was only Saturday and Sunday arvo games and the occasional Saturday night to contend with, I have no problem with those timeslots - but I'm having none of this Sunday evening BS. Especially as it only benefits Foxtel.
At least they've given the Monday games the @ss. (WTF were they all about anyway? Seriously?)
We play the other three bottom sides twice each - Fair. We should play Brisbane here though - once in ten years in Melbourne is a farce. I think people should learn from the past about whinging about Wellington though. We whinged about Launceston and look what that has cost us. Embrace it.
Games on Sundays can be okay if you look at it like a nice way to finish the weekend off. Better than sitting around at home eating chocolate royals in front of the TV. And yes; I have young kids and a job which starts (reasonably) early in the morning.
People whinge about Friday night footy too, finishing too late for little aths the next morning and everything. I certainly don't want to play Hawthorn or Sydney twice a year in the current circumstances, nor North or Port, so no complaints there. Looking forward to giving Essendon a flogging too in round five.
Last edited by samuraisaint on Thu 30 Oct 2014 9:27pm, edited 1 time in total.
millarsaint wrote:Collingwood are broadcast on channel seven more than twice we are. Surely this smudges poo into new membership opportunities or do we not care because we are sh*t? Seen but not heard in 2015. But that's ok because we get to watch Collingwood play in BLOCKBUSTERS.
I have a young family and for a number of reasons can't make Sunday games. So that leaves me with three afternoon games on Saturday one of which is an away game. Golly gee can't wait to buy my membership. Not.
Can't believe our CEO talking up bringing to life Sunday twilight games. 'Are you having a laugh? Is he having a laugh?' What are we idiots.
Looks like the Zebs again for me next year. Bring on Moorabbin 2017.
I'm in the same boat as you mate - this draw is terrible for young families.
A lot of young kids are heading towards bedtime around 7.30-8pm on Sundays, which even makes the 3.20pm starts a bit of a squeeze for us, considering the travel time going home.
I think our CEO is blowing smoke up our @sses trying to pretend twilight games are a good thing - which is pretty disappointing, as otherwise I think he's been good for our club.
Throughout the 80s and 90s I was living in Werribee and it was a bit of a hike getting to Moorabbin or Waverley each weekend, but that was fine because back then there was only Saturday and Sunday arvo games and the occasional Saturday night to contend with, I have no problem with those timeslots - but I'm having none of this Sunday evening BS. Especially as it only benefits Foxtel.
At least they've given the Monday games the @ss. (WTF were they all about anyway? Seriously?)
Does it really effect kids if they go to bed at 9.30 4 times out of 365 days in a year? My daughter started going to the footy from 10 days of age. We never missed a game because of the time but only if we had other things on. She actually went to much footy and only goes 3 or 4 times a year now but I can honestly say the time we got home had no effect at all on her or us for more than a day. I reckon we can handle 4 bad days in 365 considering as they get older you will have many more bad days than just lack of sleep. I reckon we are whingers. We should be friggin bloody lucky we follow the saints and live in Melbourne. What about our poor interstate supporters.
plugger66 wrote:Please don't compare us to Carlton and Collingwood.
A big part of the equation why these clubs are so wealthy is these ridiculous fixtures every year…
You fixture the wealthy clubs against the other wealthy clubs in prime time each year - Guess what - they get wealthier.
How are north, dogs, saints ever going to attract the member numbers of a rival that gets 7 times the amount of friday night games & more than twice the amount of free to air games?
It's just f****** ridiculous.
I think its like a good jockey. To be a good jockey you need a good horse but you only get on a good horse if you are a good jockey. We have had our chances with fixtures but still didn't crack 40k members. I have a serious question for you Dragit. Do you honestly say I wont buy a memberhip because of a poor fixture? I certainly don't. Its amazing how we foget our good fixtures just 3 or 4 years ago. Lets be totally honest here, if the pies had the worst fixture in the AFL they would still clearly have the biggest membership. It all gets back to the jockey and the horse.
Love you mate but seriously, there is a fair bit more to it than the jockey and horse… we're talking about about decades of exposure at massive differences in eyeballs and ultimately membership and revenue numbers.
Whether or not hard core fans like us buy a membership is completely irrelevant. People rusted onto the club find the money even if they can't get to many or any games.
Collingwood playing 7 friday night games to our 1 next year is worth more than you can imagine and can't even be measured…
Collingwood have always had a bigger following than us, but while they have traditionally had around 25% more members, now they have well over double, this year 2.5 times - this doesn't happen by chance.
Swap our fixture with Collingwood for the last 20 years and our finances and memberships numbers would be very different, absolutely no doubt.
I remember hearing people whinging about Friday night games finishing too late not so long ago, and now we get upset 'cause we don't get 'em. I actually like the Sunday arvo games now. You don't have to rush to get to them, and they don't finish too late really. In fact, to be honest, they are a nice way to finish off the weekend with the family, or go along with a mate. Certainly pull up better on Monday mornings from that than I would smashing green cans in the backyard at home or at somebody else's place.
Last edited by samuraisaint on Thu 30 Oct 2014 9:40pm, edited 2 times in total.
millarsaint wrote:Collingwood are broadcast on channel seven more than twice we are. Surely this smudges poo into new membership opportunities or do we not care because we are sh*t? Seen but not heard in 2015. But that's ok because we get to watch Collingwood play in BLOCKBUSTERS.
I have a young family and for a number of reasons can't make Sunday games. So that leaves me with three afternoon games on Saturday one of which is an away game. Golly gee can't wait to buy my membership. Not.
Can't believe our CEO talking up bringing to life Sunday twilight games. 'Are you having a laugh? Is he having a laugh?' What are we idiots.
Looks like the Zebs again for me next year. Bring on Moorabbin 2017.
I'm in the same boat as you mate - this draw is terrible for young families.
A lot of young kids are heading towards bedtime around 7.30-8pm on Sundays, which even makes the 3.20pm starts a bit of a squeeze for us, considering the travel time going home.
I think our CEO is blowing smoke up our @sses trying to pretend twilight games are a good thing - which is pretty disappointing, as otherwise I think he's been good for our club.
Throughout the 80s and 90s I was living in Werribee and it was a bit of a hike getting to Moorabbin or Waverley each weekend, but that was fine because back then there was only Saturday and Sunday arvo games and the occasional Saturday night to contend with, I have no problem with those timeslots - but I'm having none of this Sunday evening BS. Especially as it only benefits Foxtel.
At least they've given the Monday games the @ss. (WTF were they all about anyway? Seriously?)
Does it really effect kids if they go to bed at 9.30 4 times out of 365 days in a year? My daughter started going to the footy from 10 days of age. We never missed a game because of the time but only if we had other things on. She actually went to much footy and only goes 3 or 4 times a year now but I can honestly say the time we got home had no effect at all on her or us for more than a day. I reckon we can handle 4 bad days in 365 considering as they get older you will have many more bad days than just lack of sleep. I reckon we are whingers. We should be friggin bloody lucky we follow the saints and live in Melbourne. What about our poor interstate supporters.
Well that's fine if your kids don't have a medical condition - unfortunately my son does, but we will still manage as best we can to attend as many games as suits us.
Sometimes people have legitimate reasons for being unable to attend games Plugger - it doesn't make us whingers though.
plugger66 wrote:Please don't compare us to Carlton and Collingwood.
A big part of the equation why these clubs are so wealthy is these ridiculous fixtures every year…
You fixture the wealthy clubs against the other wealthy clubs in prime time each year - Guess what - they get wealthier.
How are north, dogs, saints ever going to attract the member numbers of a rival that gets 7 times the amount of friday night games & more than twice the amount of free to air games?
It's just f****** ridiculous.
I think its like a good jockey. To be a good jockey you need a good horse but you only get on a good horse if you are a good jockey. We have had our chances with fixtures but still didn't crack 40k members. I have a serious question for you Dragit. Do you honestly say I wont buy a memberhip because of a poor fixture? I certainly don't. Its amazing how we foget our good fixtures just 3 or 4 years ago. Lets be totally honest here, if the pies had the worst fixture in the AFL they would still clearly have the biggest membership. It all gets back to the jockey and the horse.
Love you mate but seriously, there is a fair bit more to it than the jockey and horse… we're talking about about decades of exposure at massive differences in eyeballs and ultimately membership and revenue numbers.
Whether or not hard core fans like us buy a membership is completely irrelevant. People rusted onto the club find the money even if they can't get to many or any games.
Collingwood playing 7 friday night games to our 1 next year is worth more than you can imagine and can't even be measured…
Collingwood have always had a bigger following than us, but while they have traditionally had around 25% more members, now they have well over double, this year 2.5 times - this doesn't happen by chance.
Swap our fixture with Collingwood for the last 20 years and our finances and memberships numbers would be very different, absolutely no doubt.
We have had our chance with Friday nights. Why would Channel 7 want us Friday nights. We cant even get people to our games. Its exactly like a jockey and a horse. Why does the pies membership continue to go up and ours drop? Lets face it, it has nothing to do with the fixture, its to do with soft whinging supporters and I don't mean you. I mean those who whinge about how bad we are and who we trade and threaten microwaving their membership. As I said I don't know one member who studies the fixture before buying a membership. They do however study how poor we are going. Pies supporters don't seem to care how bad they are going. Can I ask a serious question? Why would a Friday night game make you buy a membership more than a Sunday day game?
Plugger, the AFL must hate us. Otherwise how can you explain the fact that we're only playing teams that finished higher than us this year! No other club has it that tough.
plugger66 wrote:Why does the pies membership continue to go up and ours drop?
Because they are on prime time TV all the time.
plugger66 wrote:Can I ask a serious question? Why would a Friday night game make you buy a membership more than a Sunday day game?
Like I said before, it's not about the fans that have been following the club since before they could talk like myself… it's about potential new fans and members… more of which come when they see a team on the tellie every single week.
Why has Collingwoods membership gone from 32,000 to 72,000 in the past 12 years? They played in back to back grand finals back then so it can't be team success.
Exposure is everything, that's why advertising cost so much more in prime time to say… Sunday afternoon.
And our membership was only 17,000 the year we finished on top and made a grand final in 1997. It was over 40,000 just a couple of years ago.
No matter what way we slice it, our supporters need to get along to games, and I will be very interested to see how Riewoldt's 300th is attended compared to our other matches.
A sunday twilight game billed as Lenny's goodbye match was mobbed out. Apart from a small cheer squad there was no Footscray support presence anywhere at the ground. Now compare that to our support presence against Collingwood in a boutique match on the Friday night, in our home game.
plugger66 wrote:Why does the pies membership continue to go up and ours drop?
Because they are on prime time TV all the time.
plugger66 wrote:Can I ask a serious question? Why would a Friday night game make you buy a membership more than a Sunday day game?
Like I said before, it's not about the fans that have been following the club since before they could talk like myself… it's about potential new fans and members… more of which come when they see a team on the tellie every single week.
Why has Collingwoods membership gone from 32,000 to 72,000 in the past 12 years? They played in back to back grand finals back then so it can't be team success.
Exposure is everything, that's why advertising cost so much more in prime time to say… Sunday afternoon.
Because Collingwood sell pet memberships? Because they sell "Anzac Day" match memberships?
Because Hawthorn sell Frankston memberships - for people who only go to games a couple of times a year?
Define membership. They are not all 12 or 16 game memberships.
samuraisaint wrote:And our membership was only 17,000 the year we finished on top and made a grand final in 1997. It was over 40,000 just a couple of years ago.
No matter what way we slice it, our supporters need to get along to games, and I will be very interested to see how Riewoldt's 300th is attended compared to our other matches.
A sunday twilight game billed as Lenny's goodbye match was mobbed out. Apart from a small cheer squad there was no Footscray support presence anywhere at the ground. Now compare that to our support presence against Collingwood in a boutique match on the Friday night, in our home game.
97?
Yes & Collingwood had 22,000 then
You can slice it many ways, but the side that has had an incredible prime-time draw for the last 10 - 20 years now has a membership 2.5 times the size of us compared to just 25-odd % back in 1997.
It's not about the old school fans turning up, it's about new fans that choose a team they see every second friday night for 20 years.
As I said - we dwarf North, Bulldogs and Melbourne's, along with Port's support.
Interesting that we still have better revenue than that cultural powerhouse Sydney, and super succesful Brisbane, isn't it?
A lot of those sides doing better than us are interstaters, who basically field State sides.
We just need the new Lockett or Baldock to get the imagination of the support base ticking over and we will be alright. You still haven't explained why we had such mediocre support at the Friday night Winmar match against Collingwood though, I noticed, compared to a couple of Sunday games ...Not having a dig, just reckon membership figures are creative.
