Saints List Draft Order

[minneapolis]

Would someone like spend the time to list the current player group in their draft order? I think it would be interesting.

If a player were involved in a trade then the lowest draft pick would be used. For example, from memory, we traded 20 for 25 and got Milera and Saad. In that case both Milera and Saad would be listed at 20 because that is what we gave up to get them, even though some trades involve multiple players and multiple picks.

It would look something like this:


1. Nick Riewoldt
20. Terry Milera
20. Ahmed Saad
25 Seb Ross
31. Farren Ray
37. Jack Newnes

What do you think? Any value? It's another way to look at the data.

[bergholt]

Interesting thought. Something like this:

1: Riewoldt (2000)
3: Billings (2013)
9: Armitage (2006)
11: Hayes (1998)
12: Lee (trade in 2012)
13: Hickey (trade in 2012)
18: Dunstan (2013)
19: Acres (2013)
20: Milera (trade in 2011)
24: Wright (2012), Savage (trade in 2013)
25: Ross (2011), White (2012), Longer (trade in 2013)
26: Dempster, Schneider (trade in 2007)
31: Ray (trade in 2008)
33: Gilbert (2005)
35: Markworth (2011)
37: Montagna (2001), Newnes (2011)
40: Murdoch (2012)
42: Steven (2007), Webster (2011)
43: Saunders (2012)
46: Dennis-Lane (trade in 2012)
47: Stanley (2008)
48: Bruce (trade in 2013)
55: Fisher (2003)
63: Gwilt (2004)
68: Maister (2011)
75: Siposs (2010), Pierce (2012)
77: Delaney (trade in 2013)

R3: Templeton (2013)
R9: Jones (2007)
R12: Dunell (2012)
R20: Weller (2013)
R24: Curren (2011)
R29: Simpkin (2009)
R30: Shenton (2011)
R58: Geary (2007)
R65: Minchington (2011)

free: Roberton (2012), Holmes (2013), Baker-Thomas (2013)


A little bit misleading with the trades, because often there's more value changing hands in one direction or the other. Savage for 24? Not really, it was Savage and 18 and 19 for McEvoy and 24 and 25 (https://www.draftguru.com.au/players/shane_savage/1). No idea how to correctly give that a value though, so let's use your method!

So now over to you, minneapolis. What conclusions do you draw from this data?

[bergholt]

A little more. (Because the baby's still awake so I'm still awake!)

Here's a breakdown by pick range:

Top ten: 3
11 - 20: 6
21 - 30: 7
31 - 40: 6
41 - 50: 6
51 - 70: 3
70+: 3
Rookie draft: 9
Free: 3


And by year:

1998: 1
1999: 0
2000: 1
2001: 1
2002: 0
2003: 1
2004: 1
2005: 1
2006: 1
2007: 5
2008: 2
2009: 1
2010: 1
2011: 9
2012: 10
2013: 11

[saintspremiers]

30 out of 45 players taken in last 3 trade/draft periods!

[remboy]

Only three players taken in the top ten. It wasn't so long ago everybody went on about all of early picks and priority picks.

[saint6709]

Makes you think there was too much too soon expected of Siposs at 75 - I am really hoping he can get fit and firing next year

[Saint wagga]

Interesting thought. Something like this:

1: Riewoldt (2000)
3: Billings (2013)
9: Armitage (2006)
11: Hayes (1998)
12: Lee (trade in 2012)
13: Hickey (trade in 2012)
18: Dunstan (2013)
19: Acres (2013)
20: Milera (trade in 2011)
24: Wright (2012), Savage (trade in 2013)
25: Ross (2011), White (2012), Longer (trade in 2013)
26: Dempster, Schneider (trade in 2007)
31: Ray (trade in 2008)
33: Gilbert (2005)
35: Markworth (2011)
37: Montagna (2001), Newnes (2011)
40: Murdoch (2012)
42: Steven (2007), Webster (2011)
43: Saunders (2012)
46: Dennis-Lane (trade in 2012)
47: Stanley (2008)
48: Bruce (trade in 2013)
55: Fisher (2003)
63: Gwilt (2004)
68: Maister (2011)
75: Siposs (2010), Pierce (2012)
77: Delaney (trade in 2013)

R3: Templeton (2013)
R9: Jones (2007)
R12: Dunell (2012)
R20: Weller (2013)
R24: Curren (2011)
R29: Simpkin (2009)
R30: Shenton (2011)
R58: Geary (2007)
R65: Minchington (2011)

free: Roberton (2012), Holmes (2013), Baker-Thomas (2013)


A little bit misleading with the trades, because often there's more value changing hands in one direction or the other. Savage for 24? Not really, it was Savage and 18 and 19 for McEvoy and 24 and 25 (https://www.draftguru.com.au/players/shane_savage/1). No idea how to correctly give that a value though, so let's use your method!

So now over to you, minneapolis. What conclusions do you draw from this data?

Thankyou Bergholt - brilliant research!! 37 and 42 could turn out to be very fruitful pick numbers for us if Webster and Newnes keep improving at their current rate!! Appreciate the efforts to look that up (Or If you just had those stats at the tip of your tongue, will have start calling you Rainman!!)

[dragit]

Very hard to put a pick against Lee & Hickey.

Kosi's analogy - You go to the shop to buy a cabbage, you hand over $10 and get $6 change, which you spend on other items.

Did the cabbage cost $10? No.

I would rate the Hickey/Lee part of those trades roughly mid second round (late 20's)

Lee deal - 12 swapped for 2 x second round picks 24, Lee & 43

Hickey deal - 13, 37, 57 - swapped for 25, Hickey & 47

It's obviously open to interpretation, but I don't think it would be fair to rank them as 12 & 13.

[dragit]

it was Savage and 18 and 19 for McEvoy and 24 and 25

Think it was Savage, 18 & 19 for McEvoy, 24 & 59

Savage was taken originally at 75, I think he would have been traded for a late 2nd round to early 3rd round pick if he was traded in isolation last year, 35 - 45 area.

[bergholt]

it was Savage and 18 and 19 for McEvoy and 24 and 25

Think it was Savage, 18 & 19 for McEvoy, 24 & 59

Right, good point, 5am typo.

I agree it's really hard to put a value on those trades. Same with the Schneider/Dempster one. Combined they cost pick 26. What's half of pick 26? Does that mean they each cost pick 52? Probably not!

[dragit]

Yeah, I guess in the end players like Schneider, Dempster, Saad, Milera, Lee, Hickey & Savage can't really be rated in such a concise manner…

[LTN16]

30 out of 45 players taken in last 3 trade/draft periods!

That's huge!!

[ace]

Interesting thought. Something like this:

1: Riewoldt (2000)
3: Billings (2013)
9: Armitage (2006)
11: Hayes (1998)
12: Lee (trade in 2012)
13: Hickey (trade in 2012)
18: Dunstan (2013)
19: Acres (2013)
20: Milera (trade in 2011)
24: Wright (2012), Savage (trade in 2013)
25: Ross (2011), White (2012), Longer (trade in 2013)
26: Dempster, Schneider (trade in 2007)
31: Ray (trade in 2008)
33: Gilbert (2005)
35: Markworth (2011)
37: Montagna (2001), Newnes (2011)
40: Murdoch (2012)
42: Steven (2007), Webster (2011)
43: Saunders (2012)
46: Dennis-Lane (trade in 2012)
47: Stanley (2008)
48: Bruce (trade in 2013)
55: Fisher (2003)
63: Gwilt (2004)
68: Maister (2011)
75: Siposs (2010), Pierce (2012)
77: Delaney (trade in 2013)

R3: Templeton (2013)
R9: Jones (2007)
R12: Dunell (2012)
R20: Weller (2013)
R24: Curren (2011)
R29: Simpkin (2009)
R30: Shenton (2011)
R58: Geary (2007)
R65: Minchington (2011)

free: Roberton (2012), Holmes (2013), Baker-Thomas (2013)


A little bit misleading with the trades, because often there's more value changing hands in one direction or the other. Savage for 24? Not really, it was Savage and 18 and 19 for McEvoy and 24 and 25 (https://www.draftguru.com.au/players/shane_savage/1). No idea how to correctly give that a value though, so let's use your method!

So now over to you, minneapolis. What conclusions do you draw from this data?

Like so much data, garbage in, garbage out.
In the 2009 draft
Only 8 months of new recruits were available due to a change in drafting age.
Pick 20 would normally have been worth pick 30 in an uncompromised draft only it happened to Nat Fyffe.
This was a wise move by the AFL to eventually align the draft with school leaving ages.
Up until then one third of players recruited still had to complete year 12.
Melbourne got a priority pick so effectively pick No2 (even though the AFL called it No1).
Gold Coast got 5 Queensland zone picks

However Gold Coast got 12 early picks from the 4 months excluded from the 2009 draft.
That meant come the 2010 draft
the cream of that 4 months had already been picked over by Gold Coast.
Once again pick 20 wold only be worth pick 30 in an uncompromised draft.
Queensland and Northern Territory were effectively off limits due Gold Coast' 3 Northern Territory and 5 Queensand zone picks.
To add insult to injury Gold coast got 9 first round picks including the first 3.
West Coast got pick 26 as a priority pick and Hawthorn got pick 27 as compensation for Campbell Brown.
There were compensation picks for uncontracted players moving to Gold Coast.
The Saints first round pick of 24 (Jamie Cripps) was more like a pick 35 in a normal year.



Then came the 2011 draft
GWS did not get 12 early picks like Gold Coast instead they only got 10 from the 4 months excluded from the 2010 draft.
But then got rights to 2 more underage kids who would normally be in the 2012 draft which they had to trade - the mini draft
GWS got priority pre listing previously delisted players and mature unlisted players.
NSW and Northern Territory were effectively off limits due Gold Coast' 3 Northern Territory and 5 Queensland zone picks.
To add insult to injury GWS got 9 first round picks including the first 3.
Gold Coast got pick 27, Port Adelaide pick 28 and Brisbane pick 29 all as priority picks
There were compensation picks for uncontracted player moing to GWS
The Saints first round pick of 25 (Sebastion Ross) was more like a pick 37 in a normal year.
St Kilda would have had pick 20 but they traded that to GWS in return for pick 25 and the pre listing rights to Saad and Milera.

Oh you though it would end there.
Oh no
It continued into the 2012 draft
Gold Coast could have 5 Queensland zone picks
GWS could have 5 NSW zone picks
GWS then got rights to 2 more underage kids who would normally be in the 2013 draft which they had to trade - the mini draft
GWS got priority pre listing previously delisted players and mature unlisted players.
Then there was free agency draft compensations.
In the actual draft remember 2 kids had already been taken the year earlier.
St Kilda had pick 12 which wold have been worth pick 14 normally.
This was traded for Tom Lee and picks 25 (Spencer White) and 43 (Josh Saunders).

Come the 2013 draft
St Kilda had pick 3 but 2 players had already been removed from the pool.

Come the 2014 draft
We finally have pick No 1 and it will be completely uncompromised
Let's not waste it.

[Con Gorozidis]

Terrific work bergholt.

Vaulable reference material at tihs time of year. Cheers.

[gringo]

Interesting thought. Something like this:

1: Riewoldt (2000)
3: Billings (2013)
9: Armitage (2006)
11: Hayes (1998)
12: Lee (trade in 2012)
13: Hickey (trade in 2012)
18: Dunstan (2013)
19: Acres (2013)
20: Milera (trade in 2011)
24: Wright (2012), Savage (trade in 2013)
25: Ross (2011), White (2012), Longer (trade in 2013)
26: Dempster, Schneider (trade in 2007)
31: Ray (trade in 2008)
33: Gilbert (2005)
35: Markworth (2011)
37: Montagna (2001), Newnes (2011)
40: Murdoch (2012)
42: Steven (2007), Webster (2011)
43: Saunders (2012)
46: Dennis-Lane (trade in 2012)
47: Stanley (2008)
48: Bruce (trade in 2013)
55: Fisher (2003)
63: Gwilt (2004)
68: Maister (2011)
75: Siposs (2010), Pierce (2012)
77: Delaney (trade in 2013)

R3: Templeton (2013)
R9: Jones (2007)
R12: Dunell (2012)
R20: Weller (2013)
R24: Curren (2011)
R29: Simpkin (2009)
R30: Shenton (2011)
R58: Geary (2007)
R65: Minchington (2011)

free: Roberton (2012), Holmes (2013), Baker-Thomas (2013)


A little bit misleading with the trades, because often there's more value changing hands in one direction or the other. Savage for 24? Not really, it was Savage and 18 and 19 for McEvoy and 24 and 25 (https://www.draftguru.com.au/players/shane_savage/1). No idea how to correctly give that a value though, so let's use your method!

So now over to you, minneapolis. What conclusions do you draw from this data?

Like so much data, garbage in, garbage out.
In the 2009 draft
Only 8 months of new recruits were available due to a change in drafting age.
Pick 20 would normally have been worth pick 30 in an uncompromised draft only it happened to Nat Fyffe.
This was a wise move by the AFL to eventually align the draft with school leaving ages.
Up until then one third of players recruited still had to complete year 12.
Melbourne got a priority pick so effectively pick No2 (even though the AFL called it No1).
Gold Coast got 5 Queensland zone picks

However Gold Coast got 12 early picks from the 4 months excluded from the 2009 draft.
That meant come the 2010 draft
the cream of that 4 months had already been picked over by Gold Coast.
Once again pick 20 wold only be worth pick 30 in an uncompromised draft.
Queensland and Northern Territory were effectively off limits due Gold Coast' 3 Northern Territory and 5 Queensand zone picks.
To add insult to injury Gold coast got 9 first round picks including the first 3.
West Coast got pick 26 as a priority pick and Hawthorn got pick 27 as compensation for Campbell Brown.
There were compensation picks for uncontracted players moving to Gold Coast.
The Saints first round pick of 24 (Jamie Cripps) was more like a pick 35 in a normal year.



Then came the 2011 draft
GWS did not get 12 early picks like Gold Coast instead they only got 10 from the 4 months excluded from the 2010 draft.
But then got rights to 2 more underage kids who would normally be in the 2012 draft which they had to trade - the mini draft
GWS got priority pre listing previously delisted players and mature unlisted players.
NSW and Northern Territory were effectively off limits due Gold Coast' 3 Northern Territory and 5 Queensland zone picks.
To add insult to injury GWS got 9 first round picks including the first 3.
Gold Coast got pick 27, Port Adelaide pick 28 and Brisbane pick 29 all as priority picks
There were compensation picks for uncontracted player moing to GWS
The Saints first round pick of 25 (Sebastion Ross) was more like a pick 37 in a normal year.
St Kilda would have had pick 20 but they traded that to GWS in return for pick 25 and the pre listing rights to Saad and Milera.

Oh you though it would end there.
Oh no
It continued into the 2012 draft
Gold Coast could have 5 Queensland zone picks
GWS could have 5 NSW zone picks
GWS then got rights to 2 more underage kids who would normally be in the 2013 draft which they had to trade - the mini draft
GWS got priority pre listing previously delisted players and mature unlisted players.
Then there was free agency draft compensations.
In the actual draft remember 2 kids had already been taken the year earlier.
St Kilda had pick 12 which wold have been worth pick 14 normally.
This was traded for Tom Lee and picks 25 (Spencer White) and 43 (Josh Saunders).

Come the 2013 draft
St Kilda had pick 3 but 2 players had already been removed from the pool.

Come the 2014 draft
We finally have pick No 1 and it will be completely uncompromised
Let's not waste it.

Unfortunately it not a particularly exciting top 10 compared to last year. The whole draft is a little meh. It is the sort of draft that a few guns could come later on. Players like goddard, Lamb etc might slide out and be a bargain for someone. Even the potential top 2 in Petracca and Mc cartin aren't with out a few question marks.

[maverick]

What's the knock on Petracca?

[SideshowMilne]

.