Saints VFL standalone team delayed again

[saintspremiers]

people do realize that unions are talking for the people right?
so when unions are 'hard to get along' with, in actual fact you should be saying your employees are hard to get along with
then you should ask the question why

because you prob havent treated them right


ill go back to my blanky now

True. My point is solely with regards to the construction sector.

[mr six o'clock]

Money is not the issue. Moorabbin will not be ready by the start of the 2016 VFL season.

yes
I went past there recently and thought when are they going to start bringing the ground facilities up to VFL standard .
Any work scheduled by the council takes twice as long as the time frame they propose .

[Playon]

Chris Pelchin on SEN in regards to Sandy .. If you missed it.

[Life Long Saint]

Money is not the issue. Moorabbin will not be ready by the start of the 2016 VFL season.

yes
I went past there recently and thought when are they going to start bringing the ground facilities up to VFL standard .
Any work scheduled by the council takes twice as long as the time frame they propose .

Once again, I pose the question...Why can't we share a ground with an existing VFL team until Moorabbin is ready?

[dragit]

Money is not the issue. Moorabbin will not be ready by the start of the 2016 VFL season.

yes
I went past there recently and thought when are they going to start bringing the ground facilities up to VFL standard .
Any work scheduled by the council takes twice as long as the time frame they propose .

Once again, I pose the question...Why can't we share a ground with an existing VFL team until Moorabbin is ready?

Maybe they tried…
Maybe an under-resourced club was better to continue their current arrangement for another year, rather than go standalone half-arsed.

[Life Long Saint]

Once again, I pose the question...Why can't we share a ground with an existing VFL team until Moorabbin is ready?

Maybe they tried…
Maybe an under-resourced club was better to continue their current arrangement for another year, rather than go standalone half-arsed.

I am not sure that sharing a ground for a season is going half-arsed. I would have thought the point of having our own development team would be the main benefit and goal.
Sounds like a sensible, phased approach. Split the costs over a number of years.

[Bernard Shakey]

Who do you think would share their facilities with us at a reasonable cost?

[Life Long Saint]

Who do you think would share their facilities with us at a reasonable cost?

I listed many options earlier in the thread...but the two I'd start with are Sandy and Frankston.

[saintspremiers]

Who do you think would share their facilities with us at a reasonable cost?

No they wouldn't. They know ours is a marriage of convenience.

[plugger66]

Who do you think would share their facilities with us at a reasonable cost?

I listed many options earlier in the thread...but the two I'd start with are Sandy and Frankston.

How does that conversation go with Sandy? We are dumping you but can we use the ground and can we also take some of you players so we can make up our numbers. Sandy president then says is there anything else you want? We might just fold to make it easier for you. Anyway as others have pointed out maybe they tried. Why would you have the idea and think they dont.

[Life Long Saint]

I listed many options earlier in the thread...but the two I'd start with are Sandy and Frankston.

How does that conversation go with Sandy? We are dumping you but can we use the ground and can we also take some of you players so we can make up our numbers. Sandy president then says is there anything else you want? We might just fold to make it easier for you. Anyway as others have pointed out maybe they tried. Why would you have the idea and think they dont.

It's not like you're ending a love affair. It would be a pure commercial discussion. Emotion should not be a factor.
We're ending the alliance anyway. This way Sandringham get some money out of us for use of the ground. As I stated earlier if Sandringham are that petty then the sooner we end this alliance the better.

And why would I think that I have that idea and others don't? You don't know me or what I do for a living...Call it a hunch...I've had many times in my professional life where I have literally felt like the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes or the little girl from the Mexican food ads.
Ever been in a brainstorming session or a solution workshop in your professional life? Sometimes the most obvious answer is never mentioned until quite late in the piece. And the way our club is run at times makes me question those making the decisions.
Never assume. Always challenge solutions that don't meet your desired outcomes. And always look for a better way of doing something.

[plugger66]

I listed many options earlier in the thread...but the two I'd start with are Sandy and Frankston.

How does that conversation go with Sandy? We are dumping you but can we use the ground and can we also take some of you players so we can make up our numbers. Sandy president then says is there anything else you want? We might just fold to make it easier for you. Anyway as others have pointed out maybe they tried. Why would you have the idea and think they dont.

It's not like you're ending a love affair. It would be a pure commercial discussion. Emotion should not be a factor.
We're ending the alliance anyway. This way Sandringham get some money out of us for use of the ground. As I stated earlier if Sandringham are that petty then the sooner we end this alliance the better.

And why would I think that I have that idea and others don't? You don't know me or what I do for a living...Call it a hunch...I've had many times in my professional life where I have literally felt like the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes or the little girl from the Mexican food ads.
Ever been in a brainstorming session or a solution workshop in your professional life? Sometimes the most obvious answer is never mentioned until quite late in the piece. And the way our club is run at times makes me question those making the decisions.
Never assume. Always challenge solutions that don't meet your desired outcomes. And always look for a better way of doing something.

Well thanks for all that advise but I will assume. As you said i dont know you and im pretty sure you dont know me but I think during 36 years of a working life i have shared many things at my work. And if you have thought of ground sharing then im pretty sure the saints have as well. its hardly a ground breaking idea. My guess is with all the information in front of them they dont think its works or cant get a deal done. As for sandy I obviously have no idea if they are thinking like I am but unlike you I wouldnt call sandy petty for thinking that way. I do wish they would end the allinance sooner whatever sandy are doing but the club obviously cannot.

[dragit]

I listed many options earlier in the thread...but the two I'd start with are Sandy and Frankston.

How does that conversation go with Sandy? We are dumping you but can we use the ground and can we also take some of you players so we can make up our numbers. Sandy president then says is there anything else you want? We might just fold to make it easier for you. Anyway as others have pointed out maybe they tried. Why would you have the idea and think they dont.

It's not like you're ending a love affair. It would be a pure commercial discussion. Emotion should not be a factor.
We're ending the alliance anyway. This way Sandringham get some money out of us for use of the ground. As I stated earlier if Sandringham are that petty then the sooner we end this alliance the better.

And why would I think that I have that idea and others don't? You don't know me or what I do for a living...Call it a hunch...I've had many times in my professional life where I have literally felt like the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes or the little girl from the Mexican food ads.
Ever been in a brainstorming session or a solution workshop in your professional life? Sometimes the most obvious answer is never mentioned until quite late in the piece. And the way our club is run at times makes me question those making the decisions.
Never assume. Always challenge solutions that don't meet your desired outcomes. And always look for a better way of doing something.

Change the world... One footy fan forum post at a time.

If you are so worried, why don't you email or call the club... I'm tipping they've looked at a few scenarios before pulling the pin on standalone 2016.

Some people just like to assume that the club gets everything wrong.

[Life Long Saint]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

[dragit]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

It's called PR.

I think it would sound pathetic if they came out and said "we asked around the VFL and no-one would let us play on their ground" or "we are so broke that we just can't afford to pay any other side to share their ground"

Instead of
“St Kilda and Sandringham have had a long and rewarding history together and we are extremely pleased to have the Zebras as our VFL affiliate until the end of 2016,” Pelchen said.

“While our intention remains to field a standalone VFL team based at Moorabbin, we see the recently revitalised alignment with Sandringham as providing mutual benefits for both clubs."

“The redevelopment project at Moorabbin will not be completed in time for the 2016 season, so this new agreement will provide St Kilda and Sandringham sufficient opportunity to prepare for the transition into standalone clubs.”

[plugger66]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

So should they tell us everything thay cant get done? Just because you want them to play elsewhere you think they should tell us they have thought of that idea or not. i want them to make 5 million dollars. Why dont they tell us why they cant. My next door neighbour wants them to move to Wellington. maybe they tell us why they arent doing it. Where does it stop? They have said it will happen in 2017. We will just have to wait as disappointing as it is.

[Life Long Saint]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

It's called PR.

I think it would sound pathetic if they came out and said "we asked around the VFL and no-one would let us play on their ground" or "we are so broke that we just can't afford to pay any other side to share their ground"

Instead of
“St Kilda and Sandringham have had a long and rewarding history together and we are extremely pleased to have the Zebras as our VFL affiliate until the end of 2016,” Pelchen said.

“While our intention remains to field a standalone VFL team based at Moorabbin, we see the recently revitalised alignment with Sandringham as providing mutual benefits for both clubs."

“The redevelopment project at Moorabbin will not be completed in time for the 2016 season, so this new agreement will provide St Kilda and Sandringham sufficient opportunity to prepare for the transition into standalone clubs.”

No. It's called bulls***!
A statement could be made along the lines of...
"The redevelopment project at Moorabbin will not be completed in time for the 2016 season and, after evaluating a number of options, including ground sharing, we are extremely pleased to have the Zebras as our VFL affiliate until the end of 2016. While our intention remains to field a standalone VFL team based at Moorabbin, we see the recently revitalised alignment with Sandringham as providing mutual benefits for both clubs."

The line from Pelchin “St Kilda and Sandringham have had a long and rewarding history together” is just utter excrement. However, if you define long as "less than five years" and rewarding as "never being a serious contender and poor player development" then he is spot on.

[Life Long Saint]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

So should they tell us everything thay cant get done? Just because you want them to play elsewhere you think they should tell us they have thought of that idea or not. i want them to make 5 million dollars. Why dont they tell us why they cant. My next door neighbour wants them to move to Wellington. maybe they tell us why they arent doing it. Where does it stop? They have said it will happen in 2017. We will just have to wait as disappointing as it is.

Is it so wrong to ask for information? As a member I am entitled to answers from the board about how MY club is run.
Trouble is our club does not respond to questions from members any more.
There was a time back when Jim Watts was CEO when emails from members were answered - well mine were at any rate. That has not happened for any CEO since.

And your next door neighbour is an idiot...You should move!

[plugger66]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

So should they tell us everything thay cant get done? Just because you want them to play elsewhere you think they should tell us they have thought of that idea or not. i want them to make 5 million dollars. Why dont they tell us why they cant. My next door neighbour wants them to move to Wellington. maybe they tell us why they arent doing it. Where does it stop? They have said it will happen in 2017. We will just have to wait as disappointing as it is.

Is it so wrong to ask for information? As a member I am entitled to answers from the board about how MY club is run.
Trouble is our club does not respond to questions from members any more.
There was a time back when Jim Watts was CEO when emails from members were answered - well mine were at any rate. That has not happened for any CEO since.

And your next door neighbour is an idiot...You should move!

Yes they should provide as much information as they think should be provided. As i pointed out you want that info but what if 30k mebers all want different info. You can run a business like that. Obviously in their opinion they have provided enough information on this topic. What if you want information on a certain player. Should that be provided?

[dragit]

If they've thought of it and can't get it done then why not come out and say that? It's not like this administration or the recent past ones have a great track record of making commercially sound decisions.
It's hard to foster trust from your customer base if your not transparent with your process and decisions.

It's called PR.

I think it would sound pathetic if they came out and said "we asked around the VFL and no-one would let us play on their ground" or "we are so broke that we just can't afford to pay any other side to share their ground"

Instead of
“St Kilda and Sandringham have had a long and rewarding history together and we are extremely pleased to have the Zebras as our VFL affiliate until the end of 2016,” Pelchen said.

“While our intention remains to field a standalone VFL team based at Moorabbin, we see the recently revitalised alignment with Sandringham as providing mutual benefits for both clubs."

“The redevelopment project at Moorabbin will not be completed in time for the 2016 season, so this new agreement will provide St Kilda and Sandringham sufficient opportunity to prepare for the transition into standalone clubs.”

No. It's called bulls***!
A statement could be made along the lines of...
"The redevelopment project at Moorabbin will not be completed in time for the 2016 season and, after evaluating a number of options, including ground sharing, we are extremely pleased to have the Zebras as our VFL affiliate until the end of 2016. While our intention remains to field a standalone VFL team based at Moorabbin, we see the recently revitalised alignment with Sandringham as providing mutual benefits for both clubs."

The line from Pelchin “St Kilda and Sandringham have had a long and rewarding history together” is just utter excrement. However, if you define long as "less than five years" and rewarding as "never being a serious contender and poor player development" then he is spot on.

Well once we have decided to extend the affiliation another year, it would be a good move to publicly praise the relationship & express our excitement, rather than suggest that it was our last option after everything else fell through. That would be great for the alliance.

Why don't you ring the club?

[dragit]

As a member I am entitled to answers from the board about how MY club is run.:

This is the bulls*** sense of entitlement that gets me... Seriously mate.

Buying a membership each year does not entitle you to the inner workings of everything that happens behind the scenes. Get yourself on the board if you think you can run the club better.

[Life Long Saint]

Well once we have decided to extend the affiliation another year, it would be a good move to publicly praise the relationship & express our excitement, rather than suggest that it was our last option after everything else fell through. That would be great for the alliance.

Who are you trying to appease with the PR? Sandringham or the members of the club?
Do you seriously think Sandy wouldn't know what the football club are doing and that we're ending the alliance - what is to be gained by publicly sucking up to them?

This is the bulls*** sense of entitlement that gets me... Seriously mate.
Buying a membership each year does not entitle you to the inner workings of everything that happens behind the scenes. Get yourself on the board if you think you can run the club better.

Being a member of a football club is not like being a member of the AFL or MCC. We're not paying for a right to attend games and sit a certain spot.
We are contributing a fair chunk of revenue to the football club. The board are in place because they have our votes...much like politicians are.
A membership absolutely entitles me to ask and demand answers from the club about how it is run. Otherwise, I'd be better off with an AFL membership.

Board positions are reserved for wealthy people that can contribute financially to the club either out of their own pocket or by bringing sponsors...That's not me. No football club has a "Joe Public" on their board.

[Life Long Saint]

What if you want information on a certain player. Should that be provided?

I'm not sure whether or not you're being deliberately naive.
Have you ever heard of the privacy act? Evidence suggest not otherwise you'd know that is a silly question to ask.

[plugger66]

Well once we have decided to extend the affiliation another year, it would be a good move to publicly praise the relationship & express our excitement, rather than suggest that it was our last option after everything else fell through. That would be great for the alliance.

Who are you trying to appease with the PR? Sandringham or the members of the club?
Do you seriously think Sandy wouldn't know what the football club are doing and that we're ending the alliance - what is to be gained by publicly sucking up to them?

This is the bulls*** sense of entitlement that gets me... Seriously mate.
Buying a membership each year does not entitle you to the inner workings of everything that happens behind the scenes. Get yourself on the board if you think you can run the club better.

Being a member of a football club is not like being a member of the AFL or MCC. We're not paying for a right to attend games and sit a certain spot.
We are contributing a fair chunk of revenue to the football club. The board are in place because they have our votes...much like politicians are.
A membership absolutely entitles me to ask and demand answers from the club about how it is run. Otherwise, I'd be better off with an AFL membership.

Board positions are reserved for wealthy people that can contribute financially to the club either out of their own pocket or by bringing sponsors...That's not me. No football club has a "Joe Public" on their board.

So where does the questions stop. You want it on how the club is run, what if i want it on why a certain players is kept on the list? What if 30K other members want it for 30k other questions. Sorry Im with Dragit on this. Ask all you like but dont expect an answer. The other option is not to join but IMO that would be selfish. By the way im an AFL member but a saints support pacjkage. How many questions do i get for that?

[dragit]

The ground won't be ready in time, so we are postponing for a year... Most people will be able to cope with that.

Personally I'm glad the club, president etc doesn't waste time answering questions that every mad punter thinks they are entitled. Their time could be better spent.