Longer has a long way to go.

[matrix]

well bugger me
they should BOTH be traded

unacceptable performances

[bigcarl]

Has time on his side but would want to be contributing more than just winning tap outs.

[Cairnsman]

can anyone remember how big boy was going in his first year? I know he ended up taking top clucks but in his first few seasons how long did it take him to get going?

Probably terribly but by his third year he was playing in a GF.

Wasn't that because there weren't any other fit ruckmen available for selection? Probably a good thing from Macs point of view because the experience would have accelerated his development.

[lloyd21]

Unless Longer can learn to mark and get the ball around the ground its a waste just hitting the ball in the ruck as proven by not one centre clearance in the first quarter.Will never play forward based on today. marks as well as Paul Callery.

Minson 1 Mark Vs Longer 1 Mark ? Minson 26 Longer 23 hitouts

Longer's centre bounce work is 1st class ... Saints got killed on the spread many times Saints had 4 midfielders trailing 4 midfielders away from contest after contest.


Longer is not the problem - Jack Steven (not fit this year ) Armitage , Hayes , Ross too slow as a group but next year.

Newnes will in there next as will Billlings So will Acres So will Wright So will Markworth So will Dunstan.

[bigcarl]

Longer's centre bounce work is 1st class ... Saints got killed on the spread many times Saints had 4 midfielders trailing 4 midfielders away from contest after contest.

It shows how overrated hit outs can be as a stat, often bearing no relation to the result. Longer needs to develop other strings to his bow as winning tap outs is not enough.

As to your other point, you are correct. The midfield is okay on the inside, but not much good on the spread.

[Bluthy]

Longers closing speed when trying to spoil or mark is a bit of worry. But he's been carrying a damn heavy load at his age. Longer looks tired like a lot of our team. Another good preseason and he's a good competition with Hickey for that no. 1 spot with hopefully Pierce putting pressure from under as well. You need 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots in good teams.

[stinger]

can anyone remember how big boy was going in his first year? I know he ended up taking top clucks but in his first few seasons how long did it take him to get going?

i remember his first effort...ball beaned him...i cried and cried again when i watched the silky skils of rioli...now the hawks have both....i could cry again...but no tears left after seeing bj, dal and a couple of the eagles boys at the weekend.....

[ShanghaiSaint]

well bugger me
they should BOTH be traded

unacceptable performances

based off your last few posts matrix 1/4 of our list wont be playing next year.

[ShanghaiSaint]

can anyone remember how big boy was going in his first year? I know he ended up taking top clucks but in his first few seasons how long did it take him to get going?

i remember his first effort...ball beaned him...i cried and cried again when i watched the silky skils of rioli...now the hawks have both....i could cry again...but no tears left after seeing bj, dal and a couple of the eagles boys at the weekend.....

thanks for that, well then longer is ahead of big boy so that's a positive. i can't criticize him... he still has that new paint smell.

[MC Gusto]

his inability to clunk them is a worry. below afl standard no matter what position you are playing....i do hope it is a confidence thing because at the moment he is all arms swinging about and timing is miles off.

still i have faith that he will develop into a solid player...might just take some time to get his skills lined up with the pace of afl

[StJimmy]

Longer is a 21 year old carrying an AFL clubs rucking duty almost 100% on his shoulders. We talk about Billing looking tired, Dunstan looking tired etc yet want to whack this kid who although not first year is doing far more heavy lifting. Yes he needs to improve in many areas but he is a competitor, a good tap ruckman and simply needs an experienced ex ruck coach to take him under their wing.

I'd personally like to see Dean Cox recruited as a full time coach next year to work with Longer, Hickey & Pierce to fast track their skills and teach the art of play & positioning around the ground.

[plugger66]

Longers closing speed when trying to spoil or mark is a bit of worry. But he's been carrying a damn heavy load at his age. Longer looks tired like a lot of our team. Another good preseason and he's a good competition with Hickey for that no. 1 spot with hopefully Pierce putting pressure from under as well. You need 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots in good teams.

Im not sure that last statement is truee in todays footy. You need a very good first ruck and a forward ruck in the seniors and just a backup in the reserves. Not sure any side has 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots.

[Bluthy]

Longers closing speed when trying to spoil or mark is a bit of worry. But he's been carrying a damn heavy load at his age. Longer looks tired like a lot of our team. Another good preseason and he's a good competition with Hickey for that no. 1 spot with hopefully Pierce putting pressure from under as well. You need 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots in good teams.

Im not sure that last statement is truee in todays footy. You need a very good first ruck and a forward ruck in the seniors and just a backup in the reserves. Not sure any side has 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots.

Our current situation proves you wrong Plugger. Without Longer on our books, with Hickey injured and Pierce coming off injured then Holmes, a rookie who is still working out how to hold the ball to kick it properly, could be our main ruck in the seniors. You need depth in the specialist ruck position the exact same way you need depth in all positions - to cover injuries, not being sure which players develop and which don't, to create competition in a drive to excellence etc. Lucky we have Rhys tearing it up as a power forward as the back up ruck. How many marks did he get on the weekend - 2? You're proposing something that is ridiculously and dangerously light on in the ruck department when all our young rucks have SO much development to go through where anything could happen. And if one of them wants out or we decide we have a surplus of rucks, we may get a good pick in trade to keep those young kids coming in like a production line.

[plugger66]

Longers closing speed when trying to spoil or mark is a bit of worry. But he's been carrying a damn heavy load at his age. Longer looks tired like a lot of our team. Another good preseason and he's a good competition with Hickey for that no. 1 spot with hopefully Pierce putting pressure from under as well. You need 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots in good teams.

Im not sure that last statement is truee in todays footy. You need a very good first ruck and a forward ruck in the seniors and just a backup in the reserves. Not sure any side has 3 or 4 good ruckman competing for spots.

Our current situation proves you wrong Plugger. Without Longer on our books, with Hickey injured and Pierce coming off injured then Holmes, a rookie who is still working out how to hold the ball to kick it properly, could be our main ruck in the seniors. You need depth in the specialist ruck position the exact same way you need depth in all positions - to cover injuries, not being sure which players develop and which don't, to create competition in a drive to excellence etc. Lucky we have Rhys tearing it up as a power forward as the back up ruck. How many marks did he get on the weekend - 2? You're proposing something that is ridiculously and dangerously light on in the ruck department when all our young rucks have SO much development to go through where anything could happen. And if one of them wants out or we decide we have a surplus of rucks, we may get a good pick in trade to keep those young kids coming in like a production line.

Who are the 3 or 4 good ruckmen at the swans?

[Bluthy]

Just to prove you wrong, Mr Can't be wrong, you've got me doing some in depth internet research.

If their performance in Wednesday’s intra-club match was any indication, then there will be plenty of healthy competition within the Sydney Swans’ ruck stocks this season. The Swans newest big men – Tom Derickx, Sam Naismith and Toby Nankervis – all played in Wednesday evening’s hit out and impressed with their efforts in the ruck and up forward. It wasn’t just the Swans’ new ruckman who showed positive signs during the intra-club clash, with premiership ruckman Mike Pyke taking part in his first competitive hit-out this pre-season

“I’ve had some preconceived ideas at this time of year a few times over the last three or four years and we’ve had to make changes and have had to adapt as we get players back into our team,” he said. “You don’t set something in stone in the middle of February; I’ve learnt that, so we’re trying to be flexible

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014 ... k-and-roll

With the Swans ruck stocks going from strength to strength in last year’s trade period, premiership ruckman Mike Pyke says he is looking forward to some more healthy competition in 2013. Adding to the Swans’ already strong ruck department, which includes Pyke, Shane Mumford and Jesse White, the club also inserted 202cm forward/ruckman Kurt Tippett as well as 203cm rookie Sam Naismith to the club’s big-man ranks

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2013 ... -challenge

I rest my case your honour.

[plugger66]

Just to prove you wrong, Mr Can't be wrong, you've got me doing some in depth internet research.

If their performance in Wednesday’s intra-club match was any indication, then there will be plenty of healthy competition within the Sydney Swans’ ruck stocks this season. The Swans newest big men – Tom Derickx, Sam Naismith and Toby Nankervis – all played in Wednesday evening’s hit out and impressed with their efforts in the ruck and up forward. It wasn’t just the Swans’ new ruckman who showed positive signs during the intra-club clash, with premiership ruckman Mike Pyke taking part in his first competitive hit-out this pre-season

“I’ve had some preconceived ideas at this time of year a few times over the last three or four years and we’ve had to make changes and have had to adapt as we get players back into our team,” he said. “You don’t set something in stone in the middle of February; I’ve learnt that, so we’re trying to be flexible

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014 ... k-and-roll

With the Swans ruck stocks going from strength to strength in last year’s trade period, premiership ruckman Mike Pyke says he is looking forward to some more healthy competition in 2013. Adding to the Swans’ already strong ruck department, which includes Pyke, Shane Mumford and Jesse White, the club also inserted 202cm forward/ruckman Kurt Tippett as well as 203cm rookie Sam Naismith to the club’s big-man ranks

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2013 ... -challenge

I rest my case your honour.

You said good ruckmen didnt you? I think you proved thay have a lot of ruckmen but that is all you proved. Apart from Pyke can you tell me how good all thes other ruckmen are? I certainly did enough research to know Derickx was delsied last year.

[citywest]

Oh my God, I have started a storm without even trying. To the few posters who have taken a pot shot at me, just have a re-read of my Original Post and get a life you morons FFS.

[PJ]

Where is he going by the way and has he packed any lunch?

[plugger66]

Oh my God, I have started a storm without even trying. To the few posters who have taken a pot shot at me, just have a re-read of my Original Post and get a life you morons FFS.

Re read it and also your signature but understand your point on either.

[saintkid]

He is still developing and maybe he will come good with his marking but right now the old man said his marking is on par with that of Trent Knobel so I guess he needs to improve a lot.