Billy Longer

[kosifantutti]

Showed some great tap work last night especially in the last quarter but why can't he take a grab? He looks like he's never tried to catch a ball before in his life and is just hoping the ball will somehow stick to his flat hands.

I don't know what pierce's injury status is, but would it be worth giving him a game ahead of Longer to see what he can do?

[gringo]

Showed some great tap work last night especially in the last quarter but why can't he take a grab? He looks like he's never tried to catch a ball before in his life and is just hoping the ball will somehow stick to his flat hands.

I don't know what pierce's injury status is, but would it be worth giving him a game ahead of Longer to see what he can do?

He's playing VFL so must be okay.

[White Winmar]

Showed some great tap work last night especially in the last quarter but why can't he take a grab? He looks like he's never tried to catch a ball before in his life and is just hoping the ball will somehow stick to his flat hands.

I don't know what pierce's injury status is, but would it be worth giving him a game ahead of Longer to see what he can do?

I'm a bit puzzled about his inability to take a grab as well, Kosi. I saw Billy play a few times in the u/18's and he seemed to clunk them ok. His tap work has always been his strength, but he seems to have lost the ability to take the big one grab mark. Hopefully it's only temporary and he regains some confidence in his marking. I've only seen Pierce play a couple of times, but from the little I've seen, I'm impressed. Given an injury free run, he might go past Billy as soon as next year. In any event, Tom Hickey should start next season in the number one slot. Interesting times ahead. Always good to have some competition for spots.

[mr six o'clock]

Yes , he got his hand on it .
pity there on ballers played better than ours.

[FQF]

I believe that marking is predominantly a confidence issue - you really need to believe that you are going to take the mark in order to do so.

Just so happens that confidence is not something that can be flicked like a switch, and the longer this trend goes on the harder it will be to reverse.

On our ruck stocks in general, I think it's optimistic. (Which makes you wonder how the hell Tony Shaw can be considered a respectable commentator when he said last night that on our of drafting priorities must be to replace McEvoy.) Hickey's interrupted season was exactly was Longer needed to find his feet and get a good run of games. I think we'll find that by 2015, Hickey and Longer will be evenly placed more or less. Pierce is hitting some form and apparently moves extremely well. Then there's Holmes who is tracking along very nicely for someone at his stage of development.

[plugger66]

I believe that marking is predominantly a confidence issue - you really need to believe that you are going to take the mark in order to do so.

Just so happens that confidence is not something that can be flicked like a switch, and the longer this trend goes on the harder it will be to reverse.

On our ruck stocks in general, I think it's optimistic. (Which makes you wonder how the hell Tony Shaw can be considered a respectable commentator when he said last night that on our of drafting priorities must be to replace McEvoy.) Hickey's interrupted season was exactly was Longer needed to find his feet and get a good run of games. I think we'll find that by 2015, Hickey and Longer will be evenly placed more or less. Pierce is hitting some form and apparently moves extremely well. Then there's Holmes who is tracking along very nicely for someone at his stage of development.

You dont think he actually reads this crap do you? By the way if they are evenly place in 2015 then how do both play. Forget Pierce and Holmes. They cant all play.

[Bluthy]

Its a pretty tough graft doing most of the rucking at Longers young age. Maybe he doesn't have the tank yet to also then dominate around the ground. Not a bad idea as an experiment to play both him and Pierce in the ruck to give the young fellow a taste of the big time and give Longer a bit more of a break. That lets Stanley focus on his forward play all game. It makes us pretty tall obviously but might be worth doing against the Swans who are also tall.

[Stian]

I believe that marking is predominantly a confidence issue - you really need to believe that you are going to take the mark in order to do so.

Just so happens that confidence is not something that can be flicked like a switch, and the longer this trend goes on the harder it will be to reverse.

On our ruck stocks in general, I think it's optimistic. (Which makes you wonder how the hell Tony Shaw can be considered a respectable commentator when he said last night that on our of drafting priorities must be to replace McEvoy.) Hickey's interrupted season was exactly was Longer needed to find his feet and get a good run of games. I think we'll find that by 2015, Hickey and Longer will be evenly placed more or less. Pierce is hitting some form and apparently moves extremely well. Then there's Holmes who is tracking along very nicely for someone at his stage of development.

I fully agree. While it would be nice to have a mature ruckman running around now to support Longer and Hickey, if we can put up with a bit of pain in the short term, we will be better off for having good "responsible" game time in each of those 2 and good development for Pierce and Holmes in the 2s with occasional senior games. It would be a short-sighted waste of a position on the list to go out and find a stand-in ruckman. I can see both Longer and Hickey being at least as well developed as McEvoy in 12 to 24 months.

[Stian]

I believe that marking is predominantly a confidence issue - you really need to believe that you are going to take the mark in order to do so.

Just so happens that confidence is not something that can be flicked like a switch, and the longer this trend goes on the harder it will be to reverse.

On our ruck stocks in general, I think it's optimistic. (Which makes you wonder how the hell Tony Shaw can be considered a respectable commentator when he said last night that on our of drafting priorities must be to replace McEvoy.) Hickey's interrupted season was exactly was Longer needed to find his feet and get a good run of games. I think we'll find that by 2015, Hickey and Longer will be evenly placed more or less. Pierce is hitting some form and apparently moves extremely well. Then there's Holmes who is tracking along very nicely for someone at his stage of development.

I fully agree. While it would be nice to have a mature ruckman running around now to support Longer and Hickey, if we can put up with a bit of pain in the short term, we will be better off for having good "responsible" game time in each of those 2 and good development for Pierce and Holmes in the 2s with occasional senior games. It would be a short-sighted waste of a position on the list to go out and find a stand-in ruckman. I can see both Longer and Hickey being at least as well developed as McEvoy in 12 to 24 months.

[plugger66]

Its a pretty tough graft doing most of the rucking at Longers young age. Maybe he doesn't have the tank yet to also then dominate around the ground. Not a bad idea as an experiment to play both him and Pierce in the ruck to give the young fellow a taste of the big time and give Longer a bit more of a break. That lets Stanley focus on his forward play all game. It makes us pretty tall obviously but might be worth doing against the Swans who are also tall.

Where do either of those 2 play when not rucking?

[saint6709]

I believe that marking is predominantly a confidence issue - you really need to believe that you are going to take the mark in order to do so.

Just so happens that confidence is not something that can be flicked like a switch, and the longer this trend goes on the harder it will be to reverse.

On our ruck stocks in general, I think it's optimistic. (Which makes you wonder how the hell Tony Shaw can be considered a respectable commentator when he said last night that on our of drafting priorities must be to replace McEvoy.) Hickey's interrupted season was exactly was Longer needed to find his feet and get a good run of games. I think we'll find that by 2015, Hickey and Longer will be evenly placed more or less. Pierce is hitting some form and apparently moves extremely well. Then there's Holmes who is tracking along very nicely for someone at his stage of development.

+1 and re Shaw I fully agree he IMO was speaking absolute rubbish re our draft needs once he started in about losing McEvoy and needing to get another ruck man on the list

[Bluthy]

Its a pretty tough graft doing most of the rucking at Longers young age. Maybe he doesn't have the tank yet to also then dominate around the ground. Not a bad idea as an experiment to play both him and Pierce in the ruck to give the young fellow a taste of the big time and give Longer a bit more of a break. That lets Stanley focus on his forward play all game. It makes us pretty tall obviously but might be worth doing against the Swans who are also tall.

Where do either of those 2 play when not rucking?

Can push forward as per usual with resting rucks. Rooey seems to push up the ground a lot more these day. Or alternatively could provide some spoiling power down back on the Swans giants. I'd like to see a little experimentation while we can. I'm still not sure that Stanley in the long run should be playing ruck if he comes good as a forward. Would you want Rooey rucking? I'm not convinced the twin ruck approach won't work for us. Rucking is damn hard work and history has shown that premiership teams tend to have two good dedicated rucks to dominate the hit outs and give their mids all important first use of the footy. Hickey has shown he can take marks up forward.

[plugger66]

Its a pretty tough graft doing most of the rucking at Longers young age. Maybe he doesn't have the tank yet to also then dominate around the ground. Not a bad idea as an experiment to play both him and Pierce in the ruck to give the young fellow a taste of the big time and give Longer a bit more of a break. That lets Stanley focus on his forward play all game. It makes us pretty tall obviously but might be worth doing against the Swans who are also tall.

Where do either of those 2 play when not rucking?

Can push forward as per usual with resting rucks. Rooey seems to push up the ground a lot more these day. Or alternatively could provide some spoiling power down back on the Swans giants. I'd like to see a little experimentation while we can. I'm still not sure that Stanley in the long run should be playing ruck if he comes good as a forward. Would you want Rooey rucking? I'm not convinced the twin ruck approach won't work for us. Rucking is damn hard work and history has shown that premiership teams tend to have two good dedicated rucks to dominate the hit outs and give their mids all important first use of the footy. Hickey has shown he can take marks up forward.

That cant work. longer has taken about 20 marks inj 10 or so games. Peirce isnt even in the side and has hardly kicked a goal in the seonds. Never heard of a player just being a spoiler down back. Forget the past of 2 ruckmam in premiership sides. That was years ago. Most second ruckman now are forwards who play in the ruck occasionly. No idea about Hickey. We arent talking about him previously. I do know though that he couldnt play 60% forward. Funnily the club dont agree with you ar the moment. Stanley if he is dood enough is the perfect second ruckman. Longer and Hickey arent at the moment.

[Bluthy]

You have very set views Mr Plugger. Try a little flexibility in your thought processes good sir. Our next grand final will be 6 or 7 years away. That's a LOT of water to go under the bridge. Lets try a few different things in the meantime to explore our options and be part of the vanguard (vanguard is ahead of things right?). If you haven't noticed we don't have a lot to lose at the moment by being experimental. Stanley may not make it all and be delisted. Once Longer builds a tank he might be a lot better mark. Pierce might prove to a brilliant and push his way in. Holmes might become the next Nic Nat - or the next Majak Pierce needs some encouragement if he's playing well in the VFL and I see this as way of giving him a taste without us risking much. You seem to love shooting ideas down without offering a lot of creative ideas yourself.

If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got. And for us that's a pretty bare trophy cabinet.

[plugger66]

You have very set views Mr Plugger. Try a little flexibility in your thought processes good sir. Our next grand final will be 6 or 7 years away. That's a LOT of water to go under the bridge. Lets try a few different things in the meantime to explore our options and be part of the vanguard (vanguard is ahead of things right?). If you haven't noticed we don't have a lot to lose at the moment by being experimental. Stanley may not make it all and be delisted. Once Longer builds a tank he might be a lot better mark. Pierce might prove to a brilliant and push his way in. Holmes might become the next Nic Nat - or the next Majak Pierce needs some encouragement if he's playing well in the VFL and I see this as way of giving him a taste without us risking much. You seem to love shooting ideas down without offering a lot of creative ideas yourself.

If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got. And for us that's a pretty bare trophy cabinet.

Yep i have very set views based on 40 years of watching footy. Yep people want to try things but it just never really works. its not a game anymore, its a business and clubs know what works and doesnt work. A second ruckman being just a spoiler wont work and playing 2 ruck man when neither can really mark the ball wont work. I doubt Stanley will make it but if he does he is now the ideal player as a second ruck. Why we need to try things that just cant work makes no sense. I know we arent any good and it doesnt matter how we really play but why hasnt things you suggest been tried than. probably because AR has to justify stupid ideas to the public. As it is there people on here bagging him already. Imagine if he tried other crap that has no hope of working. There would be even more baggers on here.

I want the club to practice things that can work in AFL footy this day and age and not things that worked in the past.

[Bluthy]

You have very set views Mr Plugger. Try a little flexibility in your thought processes good sir. Our next grand final will be 6 or 7 years away. That's a LOT of water to go under the bridge. Lets try a few different things in the meantime to explore our options and be part of the vanguard (vanguard is ahead of things right?). If you haven't noticed we don't have a lot to lose at the moment by being experimental. Stanley may not make it all and be delisted. Once Longer builds a tank he might be a lot better mark. Pierce might prove to a brilliant and push his way in. Holmes might become the next Nic Nat - or the next Majak Pierce needs some encouragement if he's playing well in the VFL and I see this as way of giving him a taste without us risking much. You seem to love shooting ideas down without offering a lot of creative ideas yourself.

If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got. And for us that's a pretty bare trophy cabinet.

Yep i have very set views based on 40 years of watching footy. Yep people want to try things but it just never really works. its not a game anymore, its a business and clubs know what works and doesnt work. A second ruckman being just a spoiler wont work and playing 2 ruck man when neither can really mark the ball wont work. I doubt Stanley will make it but if he does he is now the ideal player as a second ruck. Why we need to try things that just cant work makes no sense. I know we arent any good and it doesnt matter how we really play but why hasnt things you suggest been tried than. probably because AR has to justify stupid ideas to the public. As it is there people on here bagging him already. Imagine if he tried other crap that has no hope of working. There would be even more baggers on here.

I want the club to practice things that can work in AFL footy this day and age and not things that worked in the past.

I don't know what the hell I was thinking suggesting we experiment playing two specialist rucks like Hawthorn, the current premiers do and most other top teams which gives our developing ruck stocks some exposure and Longer a bit of rest from the heavy load he is carrying without Hickey. What if Longer gets injured and Pierce is thrown in the deep end without ANY experience - hang on that's crazy thinking!! I must have gone completely bonkers. I've booked myself into an asylum for tomorrow what with my bizzare thinking and all. I just hope they have foxtel. What would we do without your old school thinking Plugger. I shiver to think.

[plugger66]

You have very set views Mr Plugger. Try a little flexibility in your thought processes good sir. Our next grand final will be 6 or 7 years away. That's a LOT of water to go under the bridge. Lets try a few different things in the meantime to explore our options and be part of the vanguard (vanguard is ahead of things right?). If you haven't noticed we don't have a lot to lose at the moment by being experimental. Stanley may not make it all and be delisted. Once Longer builds a tank he might be a lot better mark. Pierce might prove to a brilliant and push his way in. Holmes might become the next Nic Nat - or the next Majak Pierce needs some encouragement if he's playing well in the VFL and I see this as way of giving him a taste without us risking much. You seem to love shooting ideas down without offering a lot of creative ideas yourself.

If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got. And for us that's a pretty bare trophy cabinet.

Yep i have very set views based on 40 years of watching footy. Yep people want to try things but it just never really works. its not a game anymore, its a business and clubs know what works and doesnt work. A second ruckman being just a spoiler wont work and playing 2 ruck man when neither can really mark the ball wont work. I doubt Stanley will make it but if he does he is now the ideal player as a second ruck. Why we need to try things that just cant work makes no sense. I know we arent any good and it doesnt matter how we really play but why hasnt things you suggest been tried than. probably because AR has to justify stupid ideas to the public. As it is there people on here bagging him already. Imagine if he tried other crap that has no hope of working. There would be even more baggers on here.

I want the club to practice things that can work in AFL footy this day and age and not things that worked in the past.

I don't know what the hell I was thinking suggesting we experiment playing two specialist rucks like Hawthorn, the current premiers do and most other top teams which gives our developing ruck stocks some exposure and Longer a bit of rest from the heavy load he is carrying without Hickey. What if Longer gets injured and Pierce is thrown in the deep end without ANY experience - hang on that's crazy thinking!! I must have gone completely bonkers. I've booked myself into an asylum for tomorrow what with my bizzare thinking and all. I just hope they have foxtel. What would we do without your old school thinking Plugger. I shiver to think.

Yep you are right. the Hawks did it for one week and then dropped Ceglar for hale who plays mainly forward. What were they thinking doing that? I have no idea why you are getting angry with me. Do you think I pick the side. Im telling you why I think the club isnt doing what you are suggesting. Maybe your angur should be at AR and the selection committee. They have a little more sway than some random on a keyboard. And who are these top sides playing 2 genuine ruckman?

[Scollop]

Do Zac Clarke and Aaron Sandilands both qualify as 'genuine ruckman'? I think Sydney have played Derricks along side Pyke in quite a few games and Hawks have often played 2 genuine ruckmen as well. Do these teams qualify as top sides?

I think with a guy like Rhys in our side we'd be stupid not to utilise his height and reach as a back up ruckman, but still think it's important to get games into both Longer and Hickey for the long term benefit of team. Can they play in the same side in 3-4 years time? Jury still out imo

[wally]

I like the idea of 2 ruckmen,1 resting in the forward line but I don't think it would work for us.
IMO it depends on 2 things,the quality of the ruckmen,and the quality of the team.
A Hale,Spider Everitt type is productive,look how much criticism Kosi used to cop doing that job.
The other thing is the ball doesn't get down there often enough and the delivery is poor.

[plugger66]

Do Zac Clarke and Aaron Sandilands both qualify as 'genuine ruckman'? I think Sydney have played Derricks along side Pyke in quite a few games and Hawks have often played 2 genuine ruckmen as well. Do these teams qualify as top sides?

I think with a guy like Rhys in our side we'd be stupid not to utilise his height and reach as a back up ruckman, but still think it's important to get games into both Longer and Hickey for the long term benefit of team. Can they play in the same side in 3-4 years time? Jury still out imo

Pike and Derrecks hardly played together, Hawks did it for one game only and Clarke played nearly the whole GF forward so he can play forward. Pierce hasnt even played and Longer doesnt mark the ball. neither has shown anything to say they can play forward. Simple question to all suggesting it. Why hasnt the club played to genuine ruckman this season after 18 games?

[Wrote for Luck]

We should never have let go of Pattinson

[spert]

The only real ruck prospect we have is Hickey. He can take a contested mark, kick goals, and is good below his knees for a big bloke. Longer is doing a great job as a stand-in, but can't seem to take a strong mark, and has zero recovery in contests, and Stanley is just a fill-in ruck at best.

[st.byron]

The only real ruck prospect we have is Hickey. He can take a contested mark, kick goals, and is good below his knees for a big bloke. Longer is doing a great job as a stand-in, but can't seem to take a strong mark, and has zero recovery in contests, and Stanley is just a fill-in ruck at best.

Crikey Spert, you're quick to write him off.

He's just turned 21. He's played 20 games of AFL footy. It's well known that big blokes take longer to mature. Don't you reckon it's a bit early to be writing off a 202cm #8 draft pick who was captain of Vic Metro at the U18 championships?

Why on earth would he be clunking big marks and have a well developed all round game at senior level when he's been chucked in the deep end this year?

Give him a chance.

[spert]

The only real ruck prospect we have is Hickey. He can take a contested mark, kick goals, and is good below his knees for a big bloke. Longer is doing a great job as a stand-in, but can't seem to take a strong mark, and has zero recovery in contests, and Stanley is just a fill-in ruck at best.

Crikey Spert, you're quick to write him off.

He's just turned 21. He's played 20 games of AFL footy. It's well known that big blokes take longer to mature. Don't you reckon it's a bit early to be writing off a 202cm #8 draft pick who was captain of Vic Metro at the U18 championships?

Why on earth would he be clunking big marks and have a well developed all round game at senior level when he's been chucked in the deep end this year?

Give him a chance.

Not writing him off by any means, just saying that for a big bloke, even at age 21, he should be grabbing a few more marks around the ground- doesn't look like he has a naturally strong set of hands, but his recovery is something good coaches can improve.. but right now he is a long way off. Hickey has shown a lot more in comparison. As I said, Longer has done a great job.

[SainterK]

Agree he needs to mark more...

I'm sure the development coaches are saying the same thing.