2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
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2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Link below to an article on our drafting during Lyon's reign.
A disaster and it's playing out now with the holes in our list.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/breaking-n ... 6980866631
A disaster and it's playing out now with the holes in our list.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/breaking-n ... 6980866631
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
This article could've and should have been written a year ago. Quite possibly even in 2012 it was evident also.
But typical slack journos only now do their research (or someone maybe trawled through SS where this analysis was done last season).
But typical slack journos only now do their research (or someone maybe trawled through SS where this analysis was done last season).
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Yes St Byron it makes for awful reading. I'd forgotten about Polo, Gamble and Pattison. It's not always (IMHO) a good thing to rake over old mistakes and to wring one's hands in despair at "what might have been", however, looking back at past events with a constructively critical perspective can also be an important step in any rebuilding process. Ive often heard this quote: "those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it" and with that in mind, I do honestly believe that we will see a gradual improvement in the quality of our squad. Naturally, this is not going to happen in one season, but with the current folk we have at the club, I do believe that a corner has been turned. The article raised some very germane points about the recruiting "talents" of Mr Lyon, and one has to wonder just how Fremantle will go in the next three to five seasons (squad-wise) should they not snare a flag this or next year. Thanks for sharing the article St Byron. Most interesting!
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Check the Swan's drafting out in the mid 2000's a couple of years before their flag its far worse.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
CURLY you raise an excellent point. Although our recruiting during the period in question was fairly ordinary, I think it's fair to say several other clubs made some shocking decisions at the drafting/trade table. However, that does nothing to help US! Geelong have provided an example to all of how important to a club, quality recruitment is. I have nothing but admiration for the Geelong Football Club in the manner in which they transformed themselves into the powerhouse that they are today. I don't resent or envy them........I'd love to see us EMULATE them, but it is going to take hard work and time.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
thejiggingsaint wrote:CURLY you raise an excellent point. Although our recruiting during the period in question was fairly ordinary, I think it's fair to say several other clubs made some shocking decisions at the drafting/trade table. However, that does nothing to help US! Geelong have provided an example to all of how important to a club, quality recruitment is. I have nothing but admiration for the Geelong Football Club in the manner in which they transformed themselves into the powerhouse that they are today. I don't resent or envy them........I'd love to see us EMULATE them, but it is going to take hard work and time.
Geelong have done well yes but they where also gifted one of the best CHF in the AFL for free basically. They also have had a magnicent run with injury to their star players. From the time both lists where put together they have lost Egan to injury. We have lost Penny Maguire Watts Brooks Clark and Allen. Makes a huge differance when your not trying to replace key players like we have had to.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
nothing could be worse than this....years of rejects, walking wounded, hacks and misfits...recrited from other clubs
2001
heath black
trent knobel
2002
barry brooks
luke penny
2003
brent guerra
craig callaghan
alan murray
2004
dylan pfitzer...upgraded rookie
nick stone
aaron fiora
cain ackland
mark mcgough
2005
michael rix
fergus watts
2006
shane briss
2007
matthew clarke
charlie gardiner
2008
colm begley
2009
jesse smith
adam pattison
zac dawson
andrew lovett
brett peake
2010
ryan gamble
dean polo
just think, if we had picked a kid with each of those draft picks....
2001
heath black
trent knobel
2002
barry brooks
luke penny
2003
brent guerra
craig callaghan
alan murray
2004
dylan pfitzer...upgraded rookie
nick stone
aaron fiora
cain ackland
mark mcgough
2005
michael rix
fergus watts
2006
shane briss
2007
matthew clarke
charlie gardiner
2008
colm begley
2009
jesse smith
adam pattison
zac dawson
andrew lovett
brett peake
2010
ryan gamble
dean polo
just think, if we had picked a kid with each of those draft picks....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Agree our recruiting during that time was poor but thin it's unfair to lay the whole blame at the feet of the recruiters. Our development of young players in that time left much to be desired. I'm familiar with the family of one player who was recruited in those years who are scathing of Ross Lyon. They say the young player barely had a conversation with the senior coach in his years at the club and even when he broke into the seniors, was given minimal feedback about his performance. Was given every indication that the coach was interested only in the best 22. My view is that some of those players recruited may well have made it in the systems other clubs had in place.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Fidelis wrote:Agree our recruiting during that time was poor but thin it's unfair to lay the whole blame at the feet of the recruiters. Our development of young players in that time left much to be desired. I'm familiar with the family of one player who was recruited in those years who are scathing of Ross Lyon. They say the young player barely had a conversation with the senior coach in his years at the club and even when he broke into the seniors, was given minimal feedback about his performance. Was given every indication that the coach was interested only in the best 22. My view is that some of those players recruited may well have made it in the systems other clubs had in place.
must agree with that.....cripps, lynch and hutchins are all the proof you would need.....and to a lesser extent ...armo and jack...
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
stinger wrote:nothing could be worse than this....years of rejects, walking wounded, hacks and misfits...recrited from other clubs
2001
heath black
trent knobel
2002
barry brooks
luke penny
2003
brent guerra
craig callaghan
alan murray
2004
dylan pfitzer...upgraded rookie
nick stone
aaron fiora
cain ackland
mark mcgough
2005
michael rix
fergus watts
2006
shane briss
2007
matthew clarke
charlie gardiner
2008
colm begley
2009
jesse smith
adam pattison
zac dawson
andrew lovett
brett peake
2010
ryan gamble
dean polo
just think, if we had picked a kid with each of those draft picks....
No mention of Schneider, gehrig, Dempster and the list goes on. Yep we could have picked a kid like LJ or Sweeney or Howard. You can use names and stats to prove anything you like. Our problem was picking the wrong kids over the last 8 years. No wonder we tried recycled players. Sorry that doesnt include the last 2 years. That certainly looks better.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Agree that Lyon must bear the brunt of the blame. Good defensive coach but rigid and inflexible IMO. And the years of rubbish recruiting falls at his feet.Fidelis wrote:Agree our recruiting during that time was poor but thin it's unfair to lay the whole blame at the feet of the recruiters. Our development of young players in that time left much to be desired. I'm familiar with the family of one player who was recruited in those years who are scathing of Ross Lyon. They say the young player barely had a conversation with the senior coach in his years at the club and even when he broke into the seniors, was given minimal feedback about his performance. Was given every indication that the coach was interested only in the best 22. My view is that some of those players recruited may well have made it in the systems other clubs had in place.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Why the hell are Black Brooks Penny and Watts on the above list?
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Just spotted Semper's "The Lost Years" thread and have realised I've doubled up. If no-one objects, will merge this thread into the original by Semper.
Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
CURLY wrote:Why the hell are Black Brooks Penny and Watts on the above list?
cripples, walking wounded ...and in one case a real head case....self admitted no less...
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
st.byron wrote:Agree that Lyon must bear the brunt of the blame. Good defensive coach but rigid and inflexible IMO. And the years of rubbish recruiting falls at his feet.Fidelis wrote:Agree our recruiting during that time was poor but thin it's unfair to lay the whole blame at the feet of the recruiters. Our development of young players in that time left much to be desired. I'm familiar with the family of one player who was recruited in those years who are scathing of Ross Lyon. They say the young player barely had a conversation with the senior coach in his years at the club and even when he broke into the seniors, was given minimal feedback about his performance. Was given every indication that the coach was interested only in the best 22. My view is that some of those players recruited may well have made it in the systems other clubs had in place.
Surely he isnt responsible for the drafting of young kids and second in GT's time when he also had the higher numbered picks the recruiting was no better. Have a look and see there isnt much difference at all.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Unless you have some other agenda regarding swans - Im not sure how you could point to them in the 2000's and claim their drafting was poorCURLY wrote:Check the Swan's drafting out in the mid 2000's a couple of years before their flag its far worse.
A flag in 2005 and again in 2012 only dropped out of the 8 twice and both times rose up the ladder rapidly for a flag, shows they only needed a rejig to the list not even close to a full rebuild. AND and this is a big AND will probably win it again this year - you would have to say that is admirable club management.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
thats because RLyon has leftplugger66 wrote: Sorry that doesnt include the last 2 years. That certainly looks better.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
plugger66 wrote: Agree that Lyon must bear the brunt of the blame. Good defensive coach but rigid and inflexible IMO. And the years of rubbish recruiting falls at his feet.
Surely he isnt responsible for the drafting of young kids and second in GT's time when he also had the higher numbered picks the recruiting was no better. Have a look and see there isnt much difference at all.[/quote]
No of course not responsible for what went before he arrived. But in the drafting from his years, the cupboard is now bare. He tried to top-up with re-cycled blokes who had sfa impact. Really damaged our list balance.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Or at least retained Black and Guerra.stinger wrote:nothing could be worse than this....years of rejects, walking wounded, hacks and misfits...recrited from other clubs
2001
heath black
trent knobel
2002
barry brooks
luke penny
2003
brent guerra
craig callaghan
alan murray
2004
dylan pfitzer...upgraded rookie
nick stone
aaron fiora
cain ackland
mark mcgough
2005
michael rix
fergus watts
2006
shane briss
2007
matthew clarke
charlie gardiner
2008
colm begley
2009
jesse smith
adam pattison
zac dawson
andrew lovett
brett peake
2010
ryan gamble
dean polo
just think, if we had picked a kid with each of those draft picks....
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Have a look at their drafting it was putrid for a two year block.sunsaint wrote:Unless you have some other agenda regarding swans - Im not sure how you could point to them in the 2000's and claim their drafting was poorCURLY wrote:Check the Swan's drafting out in the mid 2000's a couple of years before their flag its far worse.
A flag in 2005 and again in 2012 only dropped out of the 8 twice and both times rose up the ladder rapidly for a flag, shows they only needed a rejig to the list not even close to a full rebuild. AND and this is a big AND will probably win it again this year - you would have to say that is admirable club management.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Not when we traded for them they weren't. Recruiting Watts was a massive signing at the time.stinger wrote:CURLY wrote:Why the hell are Black Brooks Penny and Watts on the above list?
cripples, walking wounded ...and in one case a real head case....self admitted no less...
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
but its petty to think they got it wrong in two years - when in the whole the got it very right for that period and beyondCURLY wrote:Have a look at their drafting it was putrid for a two year block.sunsaint wrote:Unless you have some other agenda regarding swans - Im not sure how you could point to them in the 2000's and claim their drafting was poorCURLY wrote:Check the Swan's drafting out in the mid 2000's a couple of years before their flag its far worse.
A flag in 2005 and again in 2012 only dropped out of the 8 twice and both times rose up the ladder rapidly for a flag, shows they only needed a rejig to the list not even close to a full rebuild. AND and this is a big AND will probably win it again this year - you would have to say that is admirable club management.
its just not a comparison to us, now if you picked WB or Rich then maybe
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
sunsaint wrote: but its petty to think they got it wrong in two years - when in the whole the got it very right for that period and beyond
its just not a comparison to us, now if you picked WB or Rich then maybe
2003 Willoughby (0) Schmidt (17) Ericksen (0) Davis (0)
2004 Moore (68) Spriggs (5) James (0)
2005 Laidlaw (1) Thornton (8) Brabazon (3)
2006 O'Keefe (0) Currie (0) Faulks (0) White (71)
2007 Veszpremi (11) Meredith (16) Bird (123)
Now I understand they won the flag but that above is five years of putrid drafting that never gets a mention.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Whilst our recruiting was poor during that period the article is a bit misleading.
2 players listed as "gone" were traded.
For Tom Lynch we got Newnes and for Jamie Cripps (and Brent Colledge via draft pick) we got Murdoch and Saunders.
So that adds another 3 players that were an indirect result from that draft period.
We can't blame the recruiters for players that want to leave a few years later.
Also Tommy Walsh was recruited in that period for which we received Markworth and Maister another 2 players still on our list. Yes he was not drafted but still should be counted.
2 players listed as "gone" were traded.
For Tom Lynch we got Newnes and for Jamie Cripps (and Brent Colledge via draft pick) we got Murdoch and Saunders.
So that adds another 3 players that were an indirect result from that draft period.
We can't blame the recruiters for players that want to leave a few years later.
Also Tommy Walsh was recruited in that period for which we received Markworth and Maister another 2 players still on our list. Yes he was not drafted but still should be counted.
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Re: 2008 - 2010 Drafting Worst in History - News Article
Picking Howard excusable but with pick 26....now that was extremely dumbplugger66 wrote:stinger wrote:nothing could be worse than this....years of rejects, walking wounded, hacks and misfits...recrited from other clubs
2001
heath black
trent knobel
2002
barry brooks
luke penny
2003
brent guerra
craig callaghan
alan murray
2004
dylan pfitzer...upgraded rookie
nick stone
aaron fiora
cain ackland
mark mcgough
2005
michael rix
fergus watts
2006
shane briss
2007
matthew clarke
charlie gardiner
2008
colm begley
2009
jesse smith
adam pattison
zac dawson
andrew lovett
brett peake
2010
ryan gamble
dean polo
just think, if we had picked a kid with each of those draft picks....
No mention of Schneider, gehrig, Dempster and the list goes on. Yep we could have picked a kid like LJ or Sweeney or Howard. You can use names and stats to prove anything you like. Our problem was picking the wrong kids over the last 8 years. No wonder we tried recycled players. Sorry that doesnt include the last 2 years. That certainly looks better.