NEW Asst Coach !!

[suss]

Reckon the PR perspective is so transparent that it may be counter productive.

That was the point my partner made. She ran it past a few of the women at work and they were unanimously suspicious of the motive. A couple even said it was patronising and these are senior, mature and competent professionals.

I just cannot agree with this at all.
I am very suspicious of this story.

Yes, I made the whole thing up. My partner's opinion doesn't count either. Nor do those of her colleagues. Perhaps you are a mysoginist, Con? Why can't women feel cynicism, especially, as my partner said, it involves the AFL, which contrary to the image makers, still has significant problems with women? My partner is a 50 year old, senior manager at one of the largest councils in the state. She is an Essendon member, unfortunately, but she knows a lot about footy and is vitally interested in women's role in it. Her 17 year old daughter from her first marriage also plays. Contrary to the popular perception, not everyone, including many women are totally convinced that this is not a cynical appointment by a club that is struggling badly, and has a poor record and image when it comes to dealing with women. Maybe the women at my partner's work are intelligent, independent and can think for themselves. Pretty confronting, hey Con? Perhaps you prefer your women nice and compliant and comfortable with being told what to think? Having socialised with them, I can attest to the fact they are no fools and that they can think for themselves. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your nice PC world, in which only those who think like you have valid opinions.

What I find most offensive is that you are implying that I'm lying. Nice one, especially as you don't know me, nor my partner. I just showed her your post and if I posted what she thought of you and your post, I'd cop a significant ban. As my partner summed it up, AFL, St.Kilda and women. It's not the mix which has a great track record, is it?

Wow. You're such a sensitive new-age man. Have you told your partner your modern and progressive thoughts on gay people?

[saintsRrising]

I just feel better knowing Peta is on board now. With her "deep" CV, which includes a mammoth two years as a VFL defensive coach, I'm sure she was by far the best available in the market.

.

What a HUGE over-reaction.

Firstly lets consider what the role actually is.....it is an assistant coach focussing on development....basically the third banana at the players academy (as I understand it Peta is the third coach), and the most junior of all the assistants roles at the club.

Best available? You have to remember what the role is...not a line coach, and a junior assistants role. Ideal for someone like Peta wanting to progress.

As such it is a role that many assistant coaches would not apply for. So it would never have attracted the best available assistant coaches in the land.

Would Peta have been the best available given the role, and likely money on offer?

Yes why not? She has formal qualifications and also several years of coaching. Big wraps from those she has worked wit. Many assistant coaches, and even head coaches have gain positions with a lot, lot less.

Attitude. I have hired many people over the years, and the one thing I do know is that attitude is the most important criteria for actual success in the role. And Peta radiates in spades a passion for the role. I foresee an employee that will willingly put in huge hours because she loves it...and who will strive for constant improvement of herself and her players.

[White Winmar]

She certainly does. I replied even though your pathetic post does not warrant one. Read my post again. I doubt you'll get the message, though. Nothing like hysteria and ignorance when it comes to killing an argument. A bit more honesty and less bigotry would do everyone some good. Also expressing yourself without fear of vilification is what it's all about. That includes not being intimidated by shrill, ignorant, PC keyboard warriors, don't you think?

Can you please tell me what I should think, as I'd love to become a new age sensitive PC fellow, like yourself. How good is it to never have to think for yourself, suss? To always have someone there to tell you what to think and what you're allowed to say. What's it like? Please tell me.

[maverick]

As my partner summed it up, AFL, St.Kilda and women. It's not the mix which has a great track record, is it?

Very ordinary comment continuing to perpetuate a media driven myth.
Clearly if these so called intelligent professionals delved a little further than Caroline Wilson and the front page of the Herald Sun, they may find facts a little thin on the ground with this sort of comment.

[Sainternist]

Pull your head in, White Winmar.

[FQF]

Pull your head in, White Winmar.

+1

[philtee]

A letter in today's Sunday Age...

A winning round

I am the President of St Kevin's Old Boys Football Club and Peta Searle joined us this year (''Footy's first lady at ease
with history'', 3/6). Her impact at the club was immediate. Within a week, she wasn't our new female coach, she was
our backline coach. Absolute respect from players came from the word go with her simple, clear, consistent message.
She won over this hard-core group in round one. Your article (''AFL treatment of women 'gutless', says Parkin'', 4/5)
was the catalyst for her appointment at St Kilda so our club would like to thank you in assisting a great person achieve
great things. I have to say, though, our old boys club that is made up of many conservative blokes is devastated she
is leaving.

Paul Murphy, St Kevin's Old Boys Football Club, Glen Iris

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-ag ... z33ziJrb5e

[SaintPav]

WW posts on the new appointment might be negative and very very cynical but there is some truth to his views.

It doesn't meant it will not turn out to be a good appointment.

The truth is that we need as much positive PR as we can get but some people just don't like to face the truth.

[saintbrat]

re the perception:
football people are all applauding it - players and coaches

cynical public fed by media are hypothesising,

listen to Matt Finnis from radio interview the other day and he stated that their wish was Not for her to begin with the' PR bang-- but word had gotten out- their preference was for her to work for a few weeks beginning Monday before she was ' introduced' to the football world as our new coach

but we , you and I and the rest of the football feeders, meant that they needed to be front foot.

[The Redeemer]

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

Who suggested I was boasting?

I am a psychopath. I kill businesses that get in my way and take an obscene amount of pleasure in doing so.

Impressive but ripping off the elderly or the disadvantaged isn't classified as B2B.

More like you're involved in some property ponzi scheme.

Best case Herbal Life given your feeble intellect.

Well the above is blatantly wrong.

Just because I am a psychopath doesn't mean I could be using my talents for good and taking down the bad guys once a for all.

[The Redeemer]

I just feel better knowing Peta is on board now. With her "deep" CV, which includes a mammoth two years as a VFL defensive coach, I'm sure she was by far the best available in the market.

.

What a HUGE over-reaction.

Firstly lets consider what the role actually is.....it is an assistant coach focussing on development....basically the third banana at the players academy (as I understand it Peta is the third coach), and the most junior of all the assistants roles at the club.

Best available? You have to remember what the role is...not a line coach, and a junior assistants role. Ideal for someone like Peta wanting to progress.

As such it is a role that many assistant coaches would not apply for. So it would never have attracted the best available assistant coaches in the land.

Would Peta have been the best available given the role, and likely money on offer?

Yes why not? She has formal qualifications and also several years of coaching. Big wraps from those she has worked wit. Many assistant coaches, and even head coaches have gain positions with a lot, lot less.

Attitude. I have hired many people over the years, and the one thing I do know is that attitude is the most important criteria for actual success in the role. And Peta radiates in spades a passion for the role. I foresee an employee that will willingly put in huge hours because she loves it...and who will strive for constant improvement of herself and her players.

So in a nutshell, is the role for an aspiring football person that has the ability to give some blokes a bit of a hug at times when they need it?

We all do at times ps.

[mullet]

Pull your head in, White Winmar.

+1

and plus me too. Perhaps white winmar should show these wonderful women of the working world his thread from last night. "bring back milney".
wonder what they would think of his idea to bring back a guy who has an horrific court case ahead of him where there will be no winners, just so we might win
a few games . what a perspective

[The OtherThommo]

She certainly does. I replied even though your pathetic post does not warrant one. Read my post again. I doubt you'll get the message, though. Nothing like hysteria and ignorance when it comes to killing an argument. A bit more honesty and less bigotry would do everyone some good. Also expressing yourself without fear of vilification is what it's all about. That includes not being intimidated by shrill, ignorant, PC keyboard warriors, don't you think?

Can you please tell me what I should think, as I'd love to become a new age sensitive PC fellow, like yourself. How good is it to never have to think for yourself, suss? To always have someone there to tell you what to think and what you're allowed to say. What's it like? Please tell me.

"politically correct
adj. Abbr. PC
Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation."

"demonstrating progressive ideals, esp by avoiding vocabulary that is considered offensive, discriminatory, or judgmental, esp concerning race and gender."

"marked by or adhering to a typically progressive orthodoxy on issues involving esp. race, gender, sexual affinity, or ecology."

The hysterical rantings of the shock jock class and those they represent (and those they manage to bluff and con with their bluster) have managed to convince many that any and all social progress should be resisted. It is done to protect the interests of those who have managed to exploit past and ongoing inequalities to their own benefit.

A significant part of tactical armory of such campaigns is the co-opting of the language to provide a narrative littered with dog whistle terms to trigger predominantly emotional responses, particularly fear (in this case fear of change or progress). The term "PC" sits high in the inventory of such language. More so, when preceded by language like "new age" and "sensitive", which provide the context in which such beliefs have developed.....the phrasing reeks of contempt.

But, what does the term "politically correct" actually mean? Given "politics" has the roots of its meaning explained thus;

"Politics (from Greek: πολιτικός politikos, meaning "of, for, or relating to citizens") is the practice and theory of influencing other people on a civic or individual level.",

I'd reckon the term "PC" suggests the prevailing political and social narratives of the time.

And, for the vast majority of the last 30 odd years the political narrative in the Western world has been dominated by anything but the socially progressive.

Ergo, I'd suggest those who show contempt for the opinions of those who advocate change and social progress designed to redress past and ongoing inequalities are those who truly "PC".

And, tossing around the pejorative, dog whistle language is just another element of what Noam Chomsky and Ed Herman described in "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

But, fear not, I don't regard those who perpetuate such regressive thinking as evil in themselves. I actually think they mostly victims. They're just unfortunate not have developed the immunity necessary to resist succumbing to the numerous strands of the bulls*** virus.

[bergholt]

Firstly lets consider what the role actually is.....it is an assistant coach focussing on development....basically the third banana at the players academy (as I understand it Peta is the third coach), and the most junior of all the assistants roles at the club.

Correct. If you're building a team then a great way to get talent in the door is to take a chance on people with non-obvious resumes in junior roles. If their attitude is right then they'll build expertise really quickly.

I mean seriously, how hard is it to be a development coach? You'd think it was rocket science judging from some of the posts on this thread.

[White Winmar]

As my partner summed it up, AFL, St.Kilda and women. It's not the mix which has a great track record, is it?

Very ordinary comment continuing to perpetuate a media driven myth.
Clearly if these so called intelligent professionals delved a little further than Caroline Wilson and the front page of the Herald Sun, they may find facts a little thin on the ground with this sort of comment.

Unfortunately, Maverick, there are plenty of women out there who are cynical about our club and it's motives.

[stinger]

As my partner summed it up, AFL, St.Kilda and women. It's not the mix which has a great track record, is it?

Very ordinary comment continuing to perpetuate a media driven myth.
Clearly if these so called intelligent professionals delved a little further than Caroline Wilson and the front page of the Herald Sun, they may find facts a little thin on the ground with this sort of comment.

Unfortunately, Maverick, there are plenty of women out there who are cynical about our club and it's motives.

maybe.....but i'm prepared to give her a fair go....aussie way isn't it....besides i think that there was no more motivation than the club and gil thought it was a good fit and a good idea.......

[White Winmar]

Pull your head in, White Winmar.

+1

and plus me too. Perhaps white winmar should show these wonderful women of the working world his thread from last night. "bring back milney".
wonder what they would think of his idea to bring back a guy who has an horrific court case ahead of him where there will be no winners, just so we might win
a few games . what a perspective

What a disgraceful post. The thread about bringing Milne back was designed to highlight our deficiencies in the area, nothing more. It was not a serious suggestion, but I'm not surprised you missed its true meaning. Last I looked, Milne was an innocent man, but clearly that didn't stop you using Milne's horrendous situation to prop up your nonsensical argument. It tells me a lot about you, or more importantly, what you lack in terms of intelligence and morality.

[mullet]

Pull your head in, White Winmar.

+1

and plus me too. Perhaps white winmar should show these wonderful women of the working world his thread from last night. "bring back milney".
wonder what they would think of his idea to bring back a guy who has an horrific court case ahead of him where there will be no winners, just so we might win
a few games . what a perspective

What a disgraceful post. The thread about bringing Milne back was designed to highlight our deficiencies in the area, nothing more. It was not a serious suggestion, but I'm not surprised you missed its true meaning. Last I looked, Milne was an innocent man, but clearly that didn't stop you using Milne's horrendous situation to prop up your nonsensical argument. It tells me a lot about you, or more importantly, what you lack in terms of intelligence and morality.

how do you know I am not one of those intelligent working women. Where did I say Milne was guilty? Was just pointing out how hysterical your posts are. And yet you call everyone else hysterical (see earlier post in this thread). Loved how you went back to the bring back milney post late this afternoon to explain it was only a joke to support your vicious post. I wish I was as morally sound and as intelligent as you.... but I can only dream. Now back to the kitchen to cook some cakes

[BigMart]

Not sure why she can't be a good coach?

Not sure why it's a great appointment?

Her ability should be judged after a period of time... When her level of success can be measured.

No different to AR or any coach.

She won the position, hopefully on merit... But then the test begins

[White Winmar]

Pull your head in, White Winmar.

+1

and plus me too. Perhaps white winmar should show these wonderful women of the working world his thread from last night. "bring back milney".
wonder what they would think of his idea to bring back a guy who has an horrific court case ahead of him where there will be no winners, just so we might win
a few games . what a perspective

What a disgraceful post. The thread about bringing Milne back was designed to highlight our deficiencies in the area, nothing more. It was not a serious suggestion, but I'm not surprised you missed its true meaning. Last I looked, Milne was an innocent man, but clearly that didn't stop you using Milne's horrendous situation to prop up your nonsensical argument. It tells me a lot about you, or more importantly, what you lack in terms of intelligence and morality.

how do you know I am not one of those intelligent working women. Where did I say Milne was guilty? Was just pointing out how hysterical your posts are. And yet you call everyone else hysterical (see earlier post in this thread). Loved how you went back to the bring back milney post late this afternoon to explain it was only a joke to support your vicious post. I wish I was as morally sound and as intelligent as you.... but I can only dream. Now back to the kitchen to cook some cakes

I know you're not intelligent by the content of your posts and your inability to read and comprehend. If you could read, or wanted to be honest in your arguments, you would've seen that in the fourth post of the Milne thread, I stated I was being sarcastic, but that doesn't suit your argument does it? That was at 6.04 pm yesterday, not this afternoon. A nice bit of lying to try and prove a point. Keeping dreaming and head back to the kitchen, although I doubt you would produce anything worthwhile. I know you're not a woman because you never take your hand off it.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Not sure why she can't be a good coach?

Not sure why it's a great appointment?

Her ability should be judged after a period of time... When her level of success can be measured.

No different to AR or any coach.

She won the position, hopefully on merit... But then the test begins

+1

Exactly correct.

If she is any good she will stay or be offered a better role.

if she is no good she will be sacked, just like any other coach.

Cant see the issue.

Only real difference with the quoted post is that I think it is a good appointment in regards to positive feedback and PR for the club.

However Peta Searle is now going to be paid good money to perform. And perform she must as our club currently needs all the help it can possibly muster.

[whiskers3614]

Can't categorically say she won't add value, but this doesn't make the original appointment any less cynical!
Anyway good luck to her and the club, could use some right now!

[stinger]

I know you're not a woman because you never take your hand off it.

some women don't either...or so i'm told....ever listened to the words of cindy lauper's "she bop"....it's evidently all about female masturbation........

...something that was never acknowledged or talked about when i was growing up.....

[maverick]

As my partner summed it up, AFL, St.Kilda and women. It's not the mix which has a great track record, is it?

Very ordinary comment continuing to perpetuate a media driven myth.
Clearly if these so called intelligent professionals delved a little further than Caroline Wilson and the front page of the Herald Sun, they may find facts a little thin on the ground with this sort of comment.

Unfortunately, Maverick, there are plenty of women out there who are cynical about our club and it's motives.

Have you done a poll?
And I would say in response that the women I have spoken to have all lauded it.
But then again, I don't take that as the majority.
Missing the point, to perpetuate the lies about our club and women is extremely ordinary.

[White Winmar]

Who is perpetuating lies? I'm merely reporting some opinions that are held by women I know. Why shoot the messenger? You'll see in an earlier post that my best friend's son had been coached by Peta at school level. The feedback was good. At that point I too, thought it was a sound appointment. It's only when my partner, her friends and a couple of my employees, begged to differ, that I really started to think about it. As a saints member, I desperately want her to succeed.

I employ 6 women and they are divided in opinion about Peta's appointment. Interestingly, the two that follow the AFL, think it's a cynical exercise. In their defence, they are filth supporters, so I guess we can give them some leeway. They are saints, and Milne haters. Two of the others think it's good and the remaining two have no opinion, because they don't know what the AFL is!

My partner and her colleagues grew up in a very different world to today's. My partner was constantly propositioned at work over her first 10 years, and that hasn't stopped to this day. She's been told more that once, that she should treat that as a compliment. A playful slap on the bottom is not harassment, but encouragement. She also was very good friends with
Glen Hawker's fiancé back in the 80's (he canceled the engagement a month before the wedding). Her recollection of that time was that AFL footballers wanted, or tolerated women, purely for the promise of sex.

If you didn't "put out", you were a lesbian or frigid. You soon stopped being invited to social engagements, which somewhat strangely, were never attended by the player's girlfriends or wives (including Hawker's fiancée ). Can you imagine my partner's discomfort at turning up to a function that her friend knew nothing about and that was attended by Hawker?

So pardon my support of her and her colleagues as their views are based on unpleasant experiences and on the fact that the AFL is still largely a boys club.

As for TOT's assertion that the PC lobby is Socially progressive and seems to own this concept, might I just say this is typical of the pomposity of the movement and it's disingenuous rhetoric. What arrogance. What dishonesty. The so called achievements of the PC lobby are very much up for debate. It does not have a monopoly on being "socially progressive". What it is, and I see this in my consulting work with government departments every day, is just one of a number of lobby groups that seeks power and a licence to influence opinion. I can assure you that it is no more relevant or " right" than many other groups. As for the response to this post and thread, it provides ample evidence that many people blithely accept what they're told, without analysis or thought. Hysteria and abuse are the lifeblood of spurious movements like the PC's. Their outrage is based on the erroneous premise that they are totally correct in their beliefs, beyond facts, or arguments that contradict them.