NEW Asst Coach !!

[The OtherThommo]

Corporate Finance and Trading.

It is seriously what happens and it is very frustrating from my end.

Probably worth getting a job in a real industry that actually adds value then. My two most recent senior management hires are both women and they're doing a sterling job.

Hmmm real industry?

Two recent hires? Great sample space...

You left out the "actually adds value" bit - surely that deserves a run around when talking about "finance and trading", 'cos it dudn't (I'm with Marx here, Karl, not Groucho, Chico, Harpo or Zeppo).

And, for someone who deals in numbers you sure can leap to a selective conclusion - the man's "two most recent hires" could bring the number of women in senior management at this particular enterprise to 2, or 2,222, or something in between - who knows? In short, the "sample space" is unknown to us.

[The OtherThommo]

Most women just cause trouble in the workplace with bitching, moaning and complaining about useless little details.

Not to mention the random emotional crap and the crying that ensures men having to pick up the slack because said female decided to get moody and have a cry because someone did not address her in the 'correct way'.

Maybe it is my industry I work in?

You sound like you work in a very unprofessional industry then. IN my industry and workplace women are not remotely like what you describe.

Futhermore, I have never ever seen a woman colleague cry at work. Sounds like your "industry" requires an overhaul and a bit of professionalism

No, we just make money and the women involved almost always go to s*** somehow.

I have seen women cry all of the time at work. Whether it is bringing problems to work or making problems at work. It is commonplace.

Professionalism? I don't think so.

From the publication of record (well it used to be, before Rupert got hold of it), located right in the middle of the world's iconic home of "finance and trading";

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

"The reality is, to succeed on Wall Street you've got to be a psychopath in one form or another," Mr. Antar says.

"It may be part of the human condition to venerate psychos, mistaking their grandiosity for leadership."

"First of all, it's not one out of 10," says Sam Antar. "It's probably eight out of 10."

Mr. Antar sees it this way: "It's a bunch of crooks dealing with other crooks."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0107057014

There's plenty more where that came from. Kinda seems more people are making the link since the world of "finance and trading" blew up the world economy 'just making money' back around '08 ('just' says an awful lot, in context).

[bergholt]

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

[stinger]

Why? Because I don't turn a blind eye to comments that undermine women?

I work in the private sector for a company with annual revenue of $350m+. I'm also a bloke.

I'm just interested in this issue - it is something that affects my wife, sister, mother and female colleagues.

There's no use with further discussion, I've made my point.

If you ever get the chance to attend some unconscious bias training, please say yes. It will amaze you that the small things that mean nothing to you can have a significant impact on those around you. It made me a better person and more understanding colleague.

I can only recommend it. Congratulations to our new assisstant coach and let's hope she does a great job for the club.

Have really appreciated reading your posts throughout this thread Legendary You sound a bonzer bloke

+1

[Cairnsman]

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

And so my question to you and TOT would be, do either of you have shares or other investments?

Some of the most dirtiest and grubbiest words known to the human race are 'growth' and 'shareholder'.

[bergholt]

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

And so my question to you and TOT would be, do either of you have shares or other investments?

Some of the most dirtiest and grubbiest words known to the human race are 'growth' and 'shareholder'.

Pretty hard to avoid having shares in your super somewhere! But I hold more Bitcoin directly than I do shares.

[Cairnsman]

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

And so my question to you and TOT would be, do either of you have shares or other investments?

Some of the most dirtiest and grubbiest words known to the human race are 'growth' and 'shareholder'.

Pretty hard to avoid having shares in your super somewhere! But I hold more Bitcoin directly than I do shares.

Yep, so do you advise your financial adviser or super funds manager to only make investments that align with your personal values and morals?

Would you know whether your retirement plan relies on the murder and rape of women and children in far away countries?

[The OtherThommo]

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

And so my question to you and TOT would be, do either of you have shares or other investments?

Some of the most dirtiest and grubbiest words known to the human race are 'growth' and 'shareholder'.

No need to hop off your trolley mid-aisle there, Cairnsman. Methinks you've added 1 and 1 and come up with 17.

What'd I post? A reference to an unwarranted conclusion about what Bergholt had posted, a reference to the concept of adding economic value, including a belief that Karl Marx had it pretty close to right back in the 19th century (and more are returning to his work, today), and a commonly held (although argued) belief that the processes involved in the world of finance do not constitute the adding of the aforementioned economic value.

Next up, I posted some quotes from a Wall St journal article, with a link to that article, closed by suggesting it was not the only article or research of its ilk and moved on to suggest the likes of the Wall St banks (i.e. those involved in finance and trading) were absolutely central to the onset of the GFC and its aftermath (a not particularly controversial view).

And, you respond with questions about my finances and the morality of owning shares and other investments? How in the hell did you get there? I was merely responding to some good ol' Masters of the Universe financial sector gobbledegook, with a gender bias, which I happen to think doesn't stand the test of reasoned scrutiny.

Apart from that, mind your own flippin' business.

[bergholt]

And so my question to you and TOT would be, do either of you have shares or other investments?

Some of the most dirtiest and grubbiest words known to the human race are 'growth' and 'shareholder'.

Pretty hard to avoid having shares in your super somewhere! But I hold more Bitcoin directly than I do shares.

Yep, so do you advise your financial adviser or super funds manager to only make investments that align with your personal values and morals?

Would you know whether your retirement plan relies on the murder and rape of women and children in far away countries?

I agree with TOT, you're skipping a few steps here. I wasn't talking about capitalism's obvious amorality, which seems to be the focus of your question. I was talking more specifically about Financial Services as an "industry" in itself. They pretend that they're doing something useful by shifting money between an arbitrage opportunity here and an information asymmetry there. Really they're a soulless industry which adds little/no value, and talking to the people who work there and really buy in to the vibe shows that in minutes.

But I'm happy to answer your question. I don't really care about my super because I can't touch it for 35 years. It's currently sitting in Australian Ethical's Growth fund. No idea what the balance is and they probably have my address from about three years ago. Retirement planning is for 50 year olds.

[Cairnsman]

17 is my favorite number but sometimes you have to skip a few steps to get to it.

[Dave McNamara]

This thread has started to drift off topic, but that that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm finding the meanderings an interesting read.

[The Redeemer]

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

Who suggested I was boasting?

I am a psychopath. I kill businesses that get in my way and take an obscene amount of pleasure in doing so.

[bergholt]

I am a psychopath. I kill businesses that get in my way and take an obscene amount of pleasure in doing so.

And you wonder why women don't enjoy working with you.

[White Winmar]

I just feel better knowing Peta is on board now. With her "deep" CV, which includes a mammoth two years as a VFL defensive coach, I'm sure she was by far the best available in the market. Another massive step for tokenism and an equally gigantic step backwards for our club's professional development.

Whatever happened to getting the best person for the job? If she is the best and most qualified assistant in the market, then I'm a Dutchman (and I'm not). I know from a friend that she is a good school teacher and school footy coach, but that hardly qualifies her as an elite sports coach. I really hope she succeeds, but seeing the way she has interviewed, I'm afraid it's all about the gender, not the expertise. I though she came across quite poorly.

If Matt Finnish wants to improve our image with the female market, surely there are better ways than making a cynical appointment such as this. Even my partner, who is an uber feminist, reckons it's a howler, that will backfire on us. She also watched the 360 interview and she commented that PETA was trying so hard to be blokey, she might have sprouted balls on the spot.

[White Winmar]

I just feel better knowing Peta is on board now. With her "deep" CV, which includes a mammoth two years as a VFL defensive coach, I'm sure she was by far the best available in the market. Another massive step for tokenism and an equally gigantic step backwards for our club's professional development.

Whatever happened to getting the best person for the job? If she is the best and most qualified assistant in the market, then I'm a Dutchman (and I'm not). I know from a friend that she is a good school teacher and school footy coach, but that hardly qualifies her as an elite sports coach. I really hope she succeeds, but seeing the way she has interviewed, I'm afraid it's all about the gender, not the expertise. I though she came across quite poorly.

If Matt Finnish wants to improve our image with the female market, surely there are better ways than making a cynical appointment such as this. Even my partner, who is an uber feminist, reckons it's a howler, that will backfire on us. She also watched the 360 interview and she commented that PETA was trying so hard to be blokey, she might have sprouted balls on the spot.

[whiskers3614]

Probably was the best available (in our price range!)

[White Winmar]

Probably was the best available (in our price range!)

I'm afraid you are right, whiskers.

[whiskers3614]

Reckon the PR perspective is so transparent that it may be counter productive.

[White Winmar]

Reckon the PR perspective is so transparent that it may be counter productive.

That was the point my partner made. She ran it past a few of the women at work and they were unanimously suspicious of the motive. A couple even said it was patronising and these are senior, mature and competent professionals.

[Cairnsman]

Probably was the best available (in our price range!)

I'm afraid you are right, whiskers.

I'm guessing he is bang on the money. Take the gender argument out of it completely and there is not much budget for the best available, man or women. Having said that she could turn into one of the best and that will then be a big tick for admin.

[Con Gorozidis]

Reckon the PR perspective is so transparent that it may be counter productive.

That was the point my partner made. She ran it past a few of the women at work and they were unanimously suspicious of the motive. A couple even said it was patronising and these are senior, mature and competent professionals.

I just cannot agree with this at all.
I am very suspicious of this story.

Firstly she actually is a footy coach. This is a fact.
If the club just picked some random woman (roos wife or something) who wasnt a footy coach and made her a coach then yes you could mount an argument it was a PR exercise. This is not the case.

Secondly how can any of you say she isnt good at her job?
How many of you had heard of Brendon Bolton until last week?
How do you rate him as a coach seeing you are all experts.

the fact is Peta has coached for years and was at Port last year.
the only thing patronizing about this is raising the issue in the first place.
It shouldnt be a big deal. Thats the whole point.

[mullet]

Reckon the PR perspective is so transparent that it may be counter productive.

That was the point my partner made. She ran it past a few of the women at work and they were unanimously suspicious of the motive. A couple even said it was patronising and these are senior, mature and competent professionals.

I just cannot agree with this at all.
I am very suspicious of this story.

well this makes it unanimously suspicious.

Patronising alright, how patronising to think that Peta has only been appointed to make the club look good.

I bet they are senior, very very senior cos that sort of thinking comes from the 1950's as for mature and competent and professional, their thinking doesnt attest to this

[SaintPav]

"The easiest way to explain the never-ending string of Wall Street scandals and implosions is to observe that a surprising percentage of people in the financial industry are psychos."

Correct. I've seen a lot of the inside of that industry, without actually working in it, and I don't know why Mr Redeemer would be boasting about being a successful finance professional. Only way to succeed in that cesspool is to be the biggest turd so you float to the top.

Who suggested I was boasting?

I am a psychopath. I kill businesses that get in my way and take an obscene amount of pleasure in doing so.

Impressive but ripping off the elderly or the disadvantaged isn't classified as B2B.

More like you're involved in some property ponzi scheme.

Best case Herbal Life given your feeble intellect.

[Dave McNamara]

Guys, you may end-up being correct about Peta in that she'll prove not up to it... which btw can be said about any new appointee.

However, I reckon you're being a bit harsh re the 'pure tokenism' thing.

Despite the result of the VFL vs SANFL game, the VFL is widely acknowledged as the second best competition in the land...

and I don't think that anyone has ever suggested that Peta made a fool of herself at Port Melbourne...



Win, loose or draw over this appointment, I was just so proud of our club when I heard the news.

[White Winmar]

Reckon the PR perspective is so transparent that it may be counter productive.

That was the point my partner made. She ran it past a few of the women at work and they were unanimously suspicious of the motive. A couple even said it was patronising and these are senior, mature and competent professionals.

I just cannot agree with this at all.
I am very suspicious of this story.

Yes, I made the whole thing up. My partner's opinion doesn't count either. Nor do those of her colleagues. Perhaps you are a mysoginist, Con? Why can't women feel cynicism, especially, as my partner said, it involves the AFL, which contrary to the image makers, still has significant problems with women? My partner is a 50 year old, senior manager at one of the largest councils in the state. She is an Essendon member, unfortunately, but she knows a lot about footy and is vitally interested in women's role in it. Her 17 year old daughter from her first marriage also plays. Contrary to the popular perception, not everyone, including many women are totally convinced that this is not a cynical appointment by a club that is struggling badly, and has a poor record and image when it comes to dealing with women. Maybe the women at my partner's work are intelligent, independent and can think for themselves. Pretty confronting, hey Con? Perhaps you prefer your women nice and compliant and comfortable with being told what to think? Having socialised with them, I can attest to the fact they are no fools and that they can think for themselves. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your nice PC world, in which only those who think like you have valid opinions.

What I find most offensive is that you are implying that I'm lying. Nice one, especially as you don't know me, nor my partner. I just showed her your post and if I posted what she thought of you and your post, I'd cop a significant ban. As my partner summed it up, AFL, St.Kilda and women. It's not the mix which has a great track record, is it?