NEW Asst Coach !!
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2012 1:32pm
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Well done Saints for being so progressive. Well credentialed coach who has played at the highest level a women can in this very male dominated sport. Is well regarded by some astute male coaches. Just hope now people can look beyond her gender and see the skills, knowledge and abilities she can bring to this sport and at the same time break down this myth that you have to have played at the highest level to be a good coach.
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
- saintbrat
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 44575
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 4:11pm
- Location: saints zone
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 188 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Gilbee was certainly still there sat nightchook23 wrote:Currently we have
Saints Player Academy
Simon McPhee - Academy Manager
Paul Hudson - Development Coach
Lindsay Gilbee - Development Coach
I wonder if either Hudson/Gilbee have left or Peta has been added as a 3rd development coach?
I'm hoping/thinking as Simon took on Academy manager maybe it's more his position replaced
StReNgTh ThRoUgH LoYaLtY
Rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly..!!
![Image](http://www.saintsmembership.com.au/theme/afl-stkilda/img/how-i-want-to-be.png)
MEMBERSHIP 2014 31,134 Membership 2015 32,746 MEMBERSHIP 2016 - 38,101
MEMBERSHIP 2017 42,095 , Membership 2018 46,998
MEMBERSHIP 2019 43,106 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 9#p1816890
MEMBERSHIP 2020 48,588 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100107
Rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly..!!
![Image](http://www.saintsmembership.com.au/theme/afl-stkilda/img/how-i-want-to-be.png)
MEMBERSHIP 2014 31,134 Membership 2015 32,746 MEMBERSHIP 2016 - 38,101
MEMBERSHIP 2017 42,095 , Membership 2018 46,998
MEMBERSHIP 2019 43,106 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 9#p1816890
MEMBERSHIP 2020 48,588 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100107
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 134 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
There are a lot of good assistants at AFL level who have never played at the highest level. Its a bit rich to say its tokenism. She did incredible work at Port Melbourne and also worked in a development role at the Western Jets, so maybe, just maybe she is actually good at whats she does and deserves this role.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Who are the assistants you refer to that didn't play at the highest level and what club are they currently coaching at? Not saying I disagree with you just would be genuinely interesting in learning.BringBackMadDog wrote:There are a lot of good assistants at AFL level who have never played at the highest level. Its a bit rich to say its tokenism. She did incredible work at Port Melbourne and also worked in a development role at the Western Jets, so maybe, just maybe she is actually good at whats she does and deserves this role.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3856
- Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 2:41pm
- Has thanked: 419 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Very proud that we have hired her. Don't care one iota what the circumstances are. She deserves a crack, and all the better that it is our club that provides that opportunity. With a developing young team, we need all the help we can get.
Surely we all got over the chicks in change rooms issue years ago?
Couldn't see that Sam Lane's article from this morning has been posted, but here it is (again, possibly).
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/l ... zrulm.html
Surely we all got over the chicks in change rooms issue years ago?
Couldn't see that Sam Lane's article from this morning has been posted, but here it is (again, possibly).
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/l ... zrulm.html
Always loyal
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 134 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
The current Hawthorn interim coach Brendan Bolton for one. He only played senior football in Tassie. Neil Craig is anotherCairnsman wrote:Who are the assistants you refer to that didn't play at the highest level and what club are they currently coaching at? Not saying I disagree with you just would be genuinely interesting in learning.BringBackMadDog wrote:There are a lot of good assistants at AFL level who have never played at the highest level. Its a bit rich to say its tokenism. She did incredible work at Port Melbourne and also worked in a development role at the Western Jets, so maybe, just maybe she is actually good at whats she does and deserves this role.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
- sasaint
- Club Player
- Posts: 825
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 6:36pm
- Location: Castlemaine
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Very happy with this appointment for a lot of reasons. Bringing a bit of the Borough winning culture and tough as nails game to our club can't be a bad thing. Also we can always do with some positive brand association which this gives it in spades. Well done Alan and Finnis. ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Patience young grasshopper
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
If it's tokenism that's fine so long as it creates a better image for our club and helps when we go out looking for sponsorship revenue. Be bloody hard working in sales at the Saints at the moment......a very hard sell.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
I'm not being smart here but you said "lots". I'm not disagreeing with the appointment, all I'm saying is it's speculative and I suppose sometimes you have to make brave calls but it's not a decision based on a proven track record at AFL level and arguably it's not a decision based on the best available. Like I said I hope she makes it.BringBackMadDog wrote:The current Hawthorn interim coach Brendan Bolton for one. He only played senior football in Tassie. Neil Craig is anotherCairnsman wrote:Who are the assistants you refer to that didn't play at the highest level and what club are they currently coaching at? Not saying I disagree with you just would be genuinely interesting in learning.BringBackMadDog wrote:There are a lot of good assistants at AFL level who have never played at the highest level. Its a bit rich to say its tokenism. She did incredible work at Port Melbourne and also worked in a development role at the Western Jets, so maybe, just maybe she is actually good at whats she does and deserves this role.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 134 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
How do you know its not a decision based on the best available????Cairnsman wrote:I'm not being smart here but you said "lots". I'm not disagreeing with the appointment, all I'm saying is it's speculative and I suppose sometimes you have to make brave calls but it's not a decision based on a proven track record at AFL level and arguably it's not a decision based on the best available. Like I said I hope she makes it.BringBackMadDog wrote:The current Hawthorn interim coach Brendan Bolton for one. He only played senior football in Tassie. Neil Craig is anotherCairnsman wrote:Who are the assistants you refer to that didn't play at the highest level and what club are they currently coaching at? Not saying I disagree with you just would be genuinely interesting in learning.BringBackMadDog wrote:There are a lot of good assistants at AFL level who have never played at the highest level. Its a bit rich to say its tokenism. She did incredible work at Port Melbourne and also worked in a development role at the Western Jets, so maybe, just maybe she is actually good at whats she does and deserves this role.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
- thequarry
- Club Player
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri 06 Jul 2007 1:17am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 2 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
I think the opening in the development coaches' department was left by Tony Micale's departure? Someone please do correct me but Hudson and McPhee were certainly already there, and I thought Gilbee was too when he left.
The redundancies made of Wakelin and Dillon's positions might have been necessary for the club to be able to make the appointment too.
The redundancies made of Wakelin and Dillon's positions might have been necessary for the club to be able to make the appointment too.
- kosifantutti
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8581
- Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
- Location: Back in town
- Has thanked: 527 times
- Been thanked: 1527 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
So she could never coach at AFL level, and no woman ever could.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Because I am going out on a limb and guessing that the best available is someone that has a proven track record at AFL level, not a lesser league. She may well be suited to the position, time will tell and as I say, I hope she succeeds.BringBackMadDog wrote:How do you know its not a decision based on the best available????Cairnsman wrote:I'm not being smart here but you said "lots". I'm not disagreeing with the appointment, all I'm saying is it's speculative and I suppose sometimes you have to make brave calls but it's not a decision based on a proven track record at AFL level and arguably it's not a decision based on the best available. Like I said I hope she makes it.BringBackMadDog wrote:The current Hawthorn interim coach Brendan Bolton for one. He only played senior football in Tassie. Neil Craig is anotherCairnsman wrote:Who are the assistants you refer to that didn't play at the highest level and what club are they currently coaching at? Not saying I disagree with you just would be genuinely interesting in learning.BringBackMadDog wrote:There are a lot of good assistants at AFL level who have never played at the highest level. Its a bit rich to say its tokenism. She did incredible work at Port Melbourne and also worked in a development role at the Western Jets, so maybe, just maybe she is actually good at whats she does and deserves this role.Cairnsman wrote:She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.plugger66 wrote:Cairnsman wrote:Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.
Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?
BTW, Neil Craig wasn't suited to a senior coaching role but is looking like a good assistant. Brendan Bolton looks like a good assistant but is unproven at the senior AFL level and is only an interim senior coach.
Proven track record.
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Voss, Ratten, Primus, Watson etc etc… all champions on the playing field, didn't help them coach.Cairnsman wrote:Both unproven, one failed, one yet to prove himself.dragit wrote:Neil Craig & Brendan McCartney didn't play at AFL level.
I wouldn't call Neil Craig's career a failure by any means… 177 games at a similar WIN/Loss to Sheedy.
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Surely none of this is relevant unless they're announcing today that she's replacing Richodragit wrote:Voss, Ratten, Primus, Watson etc etc… all champions on the playing field, didn't help them coach.Cairnsman wrote:Both unproven, one failed, one yet to prove himself.dragit wrote:Neil Craig & Brendan McCartney didn't play at AFL level.
I wouldn't call Neil Craig's career a failure by any means… 177 games at a similar WIN/Loss to Sheedy.
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Not arguing that playing AFL automatically makes you succeed as a coach, arguing that it helps.dragit wrote:Voss, Ratten, Primus, Watson etc etc… all champions on the playing field, didn't help them coach.Cairnsman wrote:Both unproven, one failed, one yet to prove himself.dragit wrote:Neil Craig & Brendan McCartney didn't play at AFL level.
I wouldn't call Neil Craig's career a failure by any means… 177 games at a similar WIN/Loss to Sheedy.
Neil Craig was good but failed on his ultimate measure as a senior coach, probably found his rightful level at the assistant level, just like Ratten.
Primus probably like Watson, big fail and probably wont coach again because of stark realisation...no proven track record at AFL level prior to appointments.
Paul Roos at Melbourne...proven track record at AFL level. Right man for that job.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5062
- Joined: Sun 27 Feb 2005 2:30am
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 125 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
All true and valid, Dragit. But, given she's joining the ranks as a development coach, I reckon that's the right job, from a perspective of her background and to keep her performance assessment from being tied to win/loss ratios. The club management will be able to assess her away from the extra special scrutiny of the chattering classes who will look for reasons why her gender is antithetical to football coaching success.dragit wrote:Voss, Ratten, Primus, Watson etc etc… all champions on the playing field, didn't help them coach.Cairnsman wrote:Both unproven, one failed, one yet to prove himself.dragit wrote:Neil Craig & Brendan McCartney didn't play at AFL level.
I wouldn't call Neil Craig's career a failure by any means… 177 games at a similar WIN/Loss to Sheedy.
If she performs up to the expectations of those who have engaged her services in a development role, then they and she can have increased confidence she can go forward, and withstand that "extra" scrutiny.
I reckon it's a terrific appointment. Let's face it, lots of spruiking about diversity means jot if you don't actually do some of it.
Just as an aside, and from the dregs of my memory, but I seem to recall the person who took the strongest stand at E'dope, about the jabfest, was a woman employed in their fitness and conditioning staff. Again from memory, I also seem to recall she either got the bullet for her protest, or quit in disgust. Maybe they should have listened to her, instead of the blind allegiance to the boys' club culture.
While there could well be some element of pleasing the AFL heirarchy with such an appointment, I actually enjoy a bit of differentiation. And, let's face it, one of the best routes out of our current malaise is to differentiate ourselves. If this move enables the AFL to hold us up as a good example, then great.
I hope she does bring a broader perspective to our player development, 'cos it can only help. And, I hope she gets to the chance to be both a development and developing coach.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1135
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Location: Still aisle 35
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: NEW Asst Coach !!
Anyone else remember that excellent British TV series, "The Manageress", with Cherie Lunghi
as the woman who takes over the Manager's job at a struggling F.A. Club, and has to resist the Chairman,
Board, players, supporters who all try to bring her down.
All the arguments being raised here are very familiar !
Only twelve episodes made...
![Image](http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/channel4/c4_images/programmes/the_manageress_1989a-01.jpg)
...do they get promoted to First Division in the last ep???
as the woman who takes over the Manager's job at a struggling F.A. Club, and has to resist the Chairman,
Board, players, supporters who all try to bring her down.
All the arguments being raised here are very familiar !
Only twelve episodes made...
![Image](http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/channel4/c4_images/programmes/the_manageress_1989a-01.jpg)
...do they get promoted to First Division in the last ep???