Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
gringo wrote:I think we are in a great position to tempt some GWS talent. We have money to spend just to meet minimum salary cap commitments. We have a special permission to pay out next years wages this year to meet minimum total payments. We need someone like Fyfe or Dangermouse to come in on $1mill in his first year tapering to $400 000 in 4 years.
With Lenny possibly in his final year I reckon the time is right to trade in some leadership preferably not at the expense of draft picks which means we target free agency. I know the club has said they will look at FA in 2016 but there's no problems reassessing our list position. Injuries to experienced players has exposed our younger guys and given us a glimpse of the future.
I like what Roos has done with the Dees bringing in Cross and Vince. I'd have a look at Matt Rosa, we wouldn't have to pay much and he'd give us a nice injection of experience for the next few years. He won't be around when we are challenging again but so what thats not his role. Then I'd look at Dangerfield, Sloane, Beams etc over the next few trade periods as FA's still keeping our draft picks as well.
Sainternist wrote:It's hard to know who we're going to be trading at the end of the season. At least players with market value anyway. Would any club actually be interested in the likes of Gwilt? I hate to say it, but I think he's got the remainder of the season left in him before his AFL career is all but over. Unless he wants to become a VFL specialist.
I think we'll need to hang on to players with the caliber of Joey. You need at least two or three champion veterans to mentor the younger players.
I doubt any other club would be interested in Gwilt but it was only a consideration and he is a free agent so if a club is keen he could walk. I feel we need to keep a little experience in the team and Gwilt certainly qualifies as an experienced member of our team. However if we continue to see improvement from younger players and they overtake Gwilt (arguably some already have) then we consider letting him go....But as a FA. We may get lucky and get a third rounder for him and considering our ladder position would likely be a pick around 40.
On a side note, don't be surprised to see Joey leave at the end of the year despite signing a contract and expressing his desire to stay. Pelchen likes to have players signed and still keep the option of releasing them from their contract if the right deal comes up from a rival club. The general feel in AFL recruitment is Joey will be offered if the deal is right. Personally I don't agree, we need Joey but that's the rumours and Pelchen's strategy.
1. Get Hugh Goddard with pick 1. Hes huge strong, 195cm (and possibly still growing)
Go to AFL.com.au listen to him talk. Hes already a man with huge balls and could captain an AFL team. Get him, he will captain our next flag.
2. Key Defender or Power Forward with Pick 19. Lever or wright if lucky enough.
3. Fast Pacey Players. Just get the quickest players available. Thats what geelong did. 3rd rounders still provide great pace options. Dont have to be the standouts. Get em in and teach them. Cannot teach pace. Just make sure they have balls (unlike stanley). Thats it PACE and BALLS = FLAGS.
If we can walk away with 2 quality KPPs, a bunch of the fastest small/medium types ill be stoked.
If we get some 'inside midfielder with'average pace, a KPP from the city with no balls. ill be @#$%^&*()
I think you've nailed our needs. Goddard would be a perfect Roo replacement. Some suggest he's like Watts but he's not at all. He's a lot more of a competitive beast like his cousin and as you said he's got leadership written all over him. What will attract our recruiters to him is he's an absolute elite left footed field kick. I reckon the only thing saving him from going pick #1 is Brisbane finishing last and favouring a J Brown replacement and selecting a more contested forward like McCartin or Wright. If we end up with pick #2 my money (at this stage) is on us selecting Goddard.
I find the relative value of power forwards interesting at the moment… the game just doesn't seem to allow a big hulking forward to dominate games any more. GWS have added a couple of monsters in Patton & Boyd, but I reckon it's going to be the more athletic types like Cameron who are more valuable.
The zoning just makes it too hard for power forwards to get the space they need to lead into.
I think it's pure fantasy to imagine a gorilla coming in and kicking 100 goals on the way to a flag these days.
Full forward isn't even really a position any more, the Coleman is filled with mainly mobile CHF's and smaller players. I guess Hawkins and Crameri are the closest to the traditional FF.
McCartin is the one I would like with our first round pick.
Unless we can do a trade with GWS with our lst round pick.
(1) Receive from GWS their first round pick and pick 19 and 2nd round pick.
(2) " : " Jon Paton, " " " " " " "
(3) " " " players such as Jon Rourke, Tomlinson, etc.
(4) " " " any combination of above.
Will be interesting to see how aggressive we go this year we have been pretty brutal the last couple of years already as far as I can see those on the chopping block this year are likely to be:
Papers appear to be stamped:
TDL - Regularly kicking goals in the VFL but no sniff of him getting a game in an injury ravaged side
Maister - Looks like his chance is gone time to look forward and likely we will draft another KPF this year
Dunnell - Has been in the best in the VFL all year can't crack it for a game think he is not seen as part of the future
In the Gun:
Simpkin: Disappointing but I think his in between height is going to be his undoing. Might get one more year but appears to be falling to the back of the queue.
Likely to be dropped then Rookied:
Pierce: Hardly played and unlikely to next year either think they will try and shift him onto the Rookie list shouldn't be too much danger of someone else stealing him
Retired:
Fisher: Unless he comes back and has an injury free barnstorming finish to the season I think he is off to play golf
Hayes: On current form he has one more year but that presumes he plays out the rest of the season without form or injury issues 50/50 will be his choice
Schneider: One more hamstring strain away from the end I think 50/50 will be the clubs choice
Jones: Will want to go on no doubt but depending on how many of the above retire may be forced out.
Contracts will play a part and there is the possibility of trades or free agency freeing up more spots on the list but generally I think we have already traded or lost to free agency anyone with any genuine value so less likely this year but Pelchan does like to pull a stunt or two.
dragit wrote:I find the relative value of power forwards interesting at the moment… the game just doesn't seem to allow a big hulking forward to dominate games any more. GWS have added a couple of monsters in Patton & Boyd, but I reckon it's going to be the more athletic types like Cameron who are more valuable.
The zoning just makes it too hard for power forwards to get the space they need to lead into.
I think it's pure fantasy to imagine a gorilla coming in and kicking 100 goals on the way to a flag these days.
Full forward isn't even really a position any more, the Coleman is filled with mainly mobile CHF's and smaller players. I guess Hawkins and Crameri are the closest to the traditional FF.
It's all fashion, recruiters need to not find the next Tippett, they need to find Rooey IMO. Forwards with running ability and can defend back the other way. There will always be a place for strong marking and kicking forwards but I'm not sold on guys who are just ruckman sized but can do the kicking and marking any better than your average player. I would rather a 194 cm lamb than 2 meter tall forward if he can play better as a forward. Wright is highly touted so I will trust the judgement of better football people than me that he's a better option.
dragit wrote:I find the relative value of power forwards interesting at the moment… the game just doesn't seem to allow a big hulking forward to dominate games any more. GWS have added a couple of monsters in Patton & Boyd, but I reckon it's going to be the more athletic types like Cameron who are more valuable.
The zoning just makes it too hard for power forwards to get the space they need to lead into.
I think it's pure fantasy to imagine a gorilla coming in and kicking 100 goals on the way to a flag these days.
Full forward isn't even really a position any more, the Coleman is filled with mainly mobile CHF's and smaller players. I guess Hawkins and Crameri are the closest to the traditional FF.
It's all fashion, recruiters need to not find the next Tippett, they need to find Rooey IMO. Forwards with running ability and can defend back the other way. There will always be a place for strong marking and kicking forwards but I'm not sold on guys who are just ruckman sized but can do the kicking and marking any better than your average player. I would rather a 194 cm lamb than 2 meter tall forward if he can play better as a forward. Wright is highly touted so I will trust the judgement of better football people than me that he's a better option.
Totally agree. it will change and big slower talls will come back but at the moment I reckon its very risky picking one. Based on the last 2 big guys drafted number one and if we went the same way that player may not have any impact at all for us in the next 3 seasons. That may seem fine because we wont be improving before than but will out members wait that long before we gets calls of dud recruiting. Not sure our club could handle that especially as I expect we have 4 years in the bottom 3.
It's all fashion, recruiters need to not find the next Tippett, they need to find Rooey IMO. Forwards with running ability and can defend back the other way. There will always be a place for strong marking and kicking forwards but I'm not sold on guys who are just ruckman sized but can do the kicking and marking any better than your average player. I would rather a 194 cm lamb than 2 meter tall forward if he can play better as a forward. Wright is highly touted so I will trust the judgement of better football people than me that he's a better option.
Totally agree. it will change and big slower talls will come back but at the moment I reckon its very risky picking one. Based on the last 2 big guys drafted number one and if we went the same way that player may not have any impact at all for us in the next 3 seasons. That may seem fine because we wont be improving before than but will out members wait that long before we gets calls of dud recruiting. Not sure our club could handle that especially as I expect we have 4 years in the bottom 3.
I think you are right we probably need a Darling type that makes an almost immediate impact or we will struggle post Rooey. That or Lee and Spencer had better get on their skates.
Old Mate wrote:Wright is the favourite for top pick and odds on to end up at the Lions. He could end up ruck/forward although at the moment he's playing more forward/ruck. A bit of a worry is he's already having reacurring back related injuries at a young age. Common for big kids not yet grown into his body. Buyer beware.
McCartin is the Power forward/traditional full forward, plays deep and takes contested marks. Big concerns on his kicking though. Massive yips, something he needs to overcome if he's going top 5. Diabetes a concern as well but from all reports he's managed it well over his junior career.
Goddard has been playing forward mainly this year and is a bit like N Roo in that he's the athlete of the draft with very good aerobic capacity. As gringo said, plays down back too. I reckon his stocks will continue to rise with an emphasis on players having massive tanks (power forwards like Cloke down on form with interchange cap). He's also an elite left footer. I think he would be near the top of our wish list and a perfect Riewoldt replacement.
Lambs stocks rising having a good start to the year. Snagged 5-6 goals for AIS. Very quick, X factor type and a good size. A more talented Markworth is a worthy comparison. Very one way player that lacks a defensive and accountable game. But a lot to work with. Will probably go top 10. Trained with us so we'd have an idea of his level of talent.
Can you support your claim about McCartin's goal kicking. Go to TAC Cup website and review his conversion, 60% which we would take every day of the week.
Gold Coast's Tom Lynch bucking the trend being a more power forward who is doing well compared to other power forwards that play the same role. But generally speaking agree. Players with a big tank and capacity to find space where space is at a premium in the modern congested and flooding game style seem to be performing better than power forwards. The interchange cap looks to be effecting the game as well. All 22 players need to go both ways including the big forwards to not only cover their man but also the spare which is sometimes two extra spares. It's a running man's game at the moment, hence why Riewoldt is having a second wind. The modern game suits his gut running style and ability to work and find space.
Old Mate wrote:Gold Coast's Tom Lynch bucking the trend being a more power forward who is doing well compared to other power forwards that play the same role. But generally speaking agree. Players with a big tank and capacity to find space where space is at a premium in the modern congested and flooding game style seem to be performing better than power forwards. The interchange cap looks to be effecting the game as well. All 22 players need to go both ways including the big forwards to not only cover their man but also the spare which is sometimes two extra spares. It's a running man's game at the moment, hence why Riewoldt is having a second wind. The modern game suits his gut running style and ability to work and find space.
Im actually not saying big guys cant make it these days. I just think the percentages suggest they may not and secondly if they do it will take time. Im unsure our club has the time as our members may get very angry if a number one pick doesnt have close to immediate impact. Lynch is playing his 5th season with the GC. Do we have 5 seasons?
1. Get Hugh Goddard with pick 1. Hes huge strong, 195cm (and possibly still growing)
Go to AFL.com.au listen to him talk. Hes already a man with huge balls and could captain an AFL team. Get him, he will captain our next flag.
2. Key Defender or Power Forward with Pick 19. Lever or wright if lucky enough.
3. Fast Pacey Players. Just get the quickest players available. Thats what geelong did. 3rd rounders still provide great pace options. Dont have to be the standouts. Get em in and teach them. Cannot teach pace. Just make sure they have balls (unlike stanley). Thats it PACE and BALLS = FLAGS.
If we can walk away with 2 quality KPPs, a bunch of the fastest small/medium types ill be stoked.
If we get some 'inside midfielder with'average pace, a KPP from the city with no balls. ill be @#$%^&*()
I think you've nailed our needs. Goddard would be a perfect Roo replacement. Some suggest he's like Watts but he's not at all. He's a lot more of a competitive beast like his cousin and as you said he's got leadership written all over him. What will attract our recruiters to him is he's an absolute elite left footed field kick. I reckon the only thing saving him from going pick #1 is Brisbane finishing last and favouring a J Brown replacement and selecting a more contested forward like McCartin or Wright. If we end up with pick #2 my money (at this stage) is on us selecting Goddard.
On Goddard I have seen him play many many times (this and last year) and he is not a competitive beast. I see a talented player who finds space really well, good raeder of teh game and has good hands. Does not play like a key position player or a mid, he is a floater. His performances are nowhere near good enough for a top 5 pick.
Old Mate wrote:Gold Coast's Tom Lynch bucking the trend being a more power forward who is doing well compared to other power forwards that play the same role. But generally speaking agree. Players with a big tank and capacity to find space where space is at a premium in the modern congested and flooding game style seem to be performing better than power forwards. The interchange cap looks to be effecting the game as well. All 22 players need to go both ways including the big forwards to not only cover their man but also the spare which is sometimes two extra spares. It's a running man's game at the moment, hence why Riewoldt is having a second wind. The modern game suits his gut running style and ability to work and find space.
Im actually not saying big guys cant make it these days. I just think the percentages suggest they may not and secondly if they do it will take time. Im unsure our club has the time as our members may get very angry if a number one pick doesnt have close to immediate impact. Lynch is playing his 5th season with the GC. Do we have 5 seasons?
The big guys definitely take longer to develop and are seen as more a risk hence why these days the top 20 picks is choc full of midfielders. We saw Grundy slide to pick 18 when he was being talked about as a likely top 3 pick. Tom Lynch is a freak of nature. Very tall, athletic and strong. Certainly having his breakout year and only three years in the system.
Old Mate wrote:Gold Coast's Tom Lynch bucking the trend being a more power forward who is doing well compared to other power forwards that play the same role. But generally speaking agree. Players with a big tank and capacity to find space where space is at a premium in the modern congested and flooding game style seem to be performing better than power forwards. The interchange cap looks to be effecting the game as well. All 22 players need to go both ways including the big forwards to not only cover their man but also the spare which is sometimes two extra spares. It's a running man's game at the moment, hence why Riewoldt is having a second wind. The modern game suits his gut running style and ability to work and find space.
Im actually not saying big guys cant make it these days. I just think the percentages suggest they may not and secondly if they do it will take time. Im unsure our club has the time as our members may get very angry if a number one pick doesnt have close to immediate impact. Lynch is playing his 5th season with the GC. Do we have 5 seasons?
The big guys definitely take longer to develop and are seen as more a risk hence why these days the top 20 picks is choc full of midfielders. We saw Grundy slide to pick 18 when he was being talked about as a likely top 3 pick. Tom Lynch is a freak of nature. Very tall, athletic and strong. Certainly having his breakout year and only three years in the system.
Jimmy O'Dea wrote:
Can you support your claim about McCartin's goal kicking. Go to TAC Cup website and review his conversion, 60% which we would take every day of the week.
I think you just did. 60% isn't that good especially for a stay at home forward that gets a lot of his goals from set shots and from close to goal. All you need to do is research what the very good goal kickers are kicking at for further confirmation. footywire is a good source.
By McCartin's own admission he needs work on his goal kicking. I was trying to find the article with the quotes in it. No luck.
Jimmy O'Dea wrote:
On Goddard I have seen him play many many times (this and last year) and he is not a competitive beast. I see a talented player who finds space really well, good raeder of teh game and has good hands. Does not play like a key position player or a mid, he is a floater. His performances are nowhere near good enough for a top 5 pick.
That opinion is totally against the grain. He's not a power forward, never said he was but in the modern game he has no issues playing as a mobile KPP of the Ben Reid variety. He had success on the weekend playing forward with highly rated Sean McLaren defending against him. Far from a floater.
dragit wrote:I don't want the best guy for the next 3 years, I want the best guy for when it counts in 5+ years…
Not to many early bloomers go crap all of a sudden though. Joel Selwood and Aussie Jones didn't dud out after 3 years. Would rather a guy who will still be good in 5 or 10 years but awesome from day one. Billings and Dunstan have raised expectations way to high, any forward that fails to kick 100 goals in season one will be a major let down.
In terms of trades we might be able to land one of GC or GWS's compensation picks. I think #15 & #20 respectively. Although there's not much trade value on our list.
noob wrote:In terms of trades we might be able to land one of GC or GWS's compensation picks. I think #15 & #20 respectively. Although there's not much trade value on our list.
I think GC's pick is tied to Geelong's finishing position and GWS in end of first round.
After this weekend we will be 3rd last, eligible for Pick 3. We have drifted from 8th spot to what will be 16th after the Tigers GWS match, in just a few weeks.
I still think we should trade with GWS. We are likely to have 2nd pick. GWS have Jon Rourke, Tomlinson, Plowman. Jaekse, (misspelt I know,) who we could have a go for, and maybe Paton, who I dont consider a No.1 anymore.. They will have a pick between 3 and 6 I would think, against our 1 or 2. We could do well trading with them.
borderbarry wrote:After this weekend we will be 3rd last, eligible for Pick 3. We have drifted from 8th spot to what will be 16th after the Tigers GWS match, in just a few weeks.
I still think we should trade with GWS. We are likely to have 2nd pick. GWS have Jon Rourke, Tomlinson, Plowman. Jaekse, (misspelt I know,) who we could have a go for, and maybe Paton, who I dont consider a No.1 anymore.. They will have a pick between 3 and 6 I would think, against our 1 or 2. We could do well trading with them.
I reckon the last thing GWS need now are picks. They will want players.
Are any GWS players starting to make a impact that we've mentioned or are we just suggesting to throw our high draft pick/s away due them being high draft picks a couple of years ago?
noob wrote:Are any GWS players starting to make a impact that we've mentioned or are we just suggesting to throw our high draft pick/s away due them being high draft picks a couple of years ago?
We tried very hard to get Dylan Shiel last year. He is very highly regarded at our Club. I am sure we will have another crack this year as he is a machine who has been OK for GWS but has plenty of upside.
