Robert Harvey revised team of the century discussion

[aaron82]

I'm not someone to normally post on anything and it may have been discussed already somewhere.

I'm absolutely staggered that Robert Harvey wasn't even in discussion in today's Herald Sun about a position in an updated team.
We all know about his EJ medals, brownlows, All Australians etc.

The main reason according to Jon Anderson was that they viewed his kicking to not be of the standard of the other players mentioned.
Are you kidding?? Perhaps Ando copped too big a knock to the head when he pranged his car in Malvern whilst tanked and can't remember how good a 25 metre kick Harvey was. Plugger Lockett certainly appreciated it!

Not only that, if you go through his overall average's for disposals etc, he trumps all the players mentioned including Ablett Junior who I reckon is fast pushing the top players of all time. He had all players covered on nearly every statistical measure except perhaps goal averages. He more than made up for it with goal assists.

[lloyd21]

I think Baldock was the best player I have seen with Ian Stewart from Stkilda view

Think he would be picked by anybody who saw footy in his era.

[aaron82]

Can't comment on Baldock or Stewart as I never saw either play. From what my dad tells me, he is Tasmanian so might be a hint of bias, Baldock was as good as any player to wear out colours.

The Tim Lane article during the week was a super read. He must have been an incredible football player to play at CHF at 5ft 9. Imagine how good he would have been in the current era as a professional full time player.

[stevie]

Why would Ablett Snr, Madden and Carey be in it now if they weren't in the original? That doesn't make sense.

Still puzzled as to how Silvagni got in it too in the first place.

Ablett Jnr should NOT be in it. Players like Voss, Harves and Buckley are ahead of him for me. Gazza took a few years to become an elite player whereas the former 3 were pretty much instant guns.

All my opinion anyway. Garza is a great player but nowhere near the best ever. Not even close. People forget it was only 4 years ago he was a sook at Geelong, lol.

[lloyd21]

Can't comment on Baldock or Stewart as I never saw either play. From what my dad tells me, he is Tasmanian so might be a hint of bias, Baldock was as good as any player to wear out colours.

The Tim Lane article during the week was a super read. He must have been an incredible football player to play at CHF at 5ft 9. Imagine how good he would have been in the current era as a professional full time player.

Allan Jeans stated he would not name the best player he has seen

would have seen a few coached a few too said Baldock was the equal of any player that played the game.

Trust his judgement

[clarky449]

Why would Ablett Snr, Madden and Carey be in it now if they weren't in the original? That doesn't make sense.

Still puzzled as to how Silvagni got in it too in the first place.

Ablett Jnr should NOT be in it. Players like Voss, Harves and Buckley are ahead of him for me. Gazza took a few years to become an elite player whereas the former 3 were pretty much instant guns.

All my opinion anyway. Garza is a great player but nowhere near the best ever. Not even close. People forget it was only 4 years ago he was a sook at Geelong, lol.

Harsh on Ablett.. Been the best player in the League since 2007 now.. Played in great teams and been great, played in terrible teams and been great..
Im only 20, but Ablett jnr is the best player ive ever seen.. Obviously haven't seen the famous names tho..

[Apples]

I'm with Aaron82, it annoys me no end when Harves is not mentioned in the same breath as Tird, Voss and Buckley when it comes to on ballers over the last 20 years. Non St Kilda people in the media forget just how good he was, year after year, he could have opened his own electrical store with all those Magnaboxes. I think he still holds the record for the most Brownlow votes if you ignore the years where both umpires votes were counted whereupon Gary Dempsey would be considered to hold that honour.
And while we are at it, another thing that annoys me is whenever Lockett's photo appears in newspaper articles it is always in a Swans jumper, it's a wonder they don't photo-shop his Brownlow onto his Swans picture. By my reckoning he played 183 of his 281 games with us, significantly more than his 98 with the Swans.

I did see the 'Doc play and he was a freak, could kick both feet, fantastic ball control, strength and balance and a great leader of men just to boot, was 'forced" to play CHF but would be a sensation as an on-baller in todays game. Who can forget that picture of him running at pace while bouncing two footballs at the same time, one in his left hand and the other in his right.

[ausfatcat]

I'm with Aaron82, it annoys me no end when Harves is not mentioned in the same breath as Tird, Voss and Buckley when it comes to on ballers over the last 20 years. Non St Kilda people in the media forget just how good he was, year after year, he could have opened his own electrical store with all those Magnaboxes. I think he still holds the record for the most Brownlow votes if you ignore the years.

I blame his longevity on that his last 7 years were great and that is what people remember, not his 10 years of brilliance

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I'm with Aaron82, it annoys me no end when Harves is not mentioned in the same breath as Tird, Voss and Buckley when it comes to on ballers over the last 20 years. Non St Kilda people in the media forget just how good he was, year after year, he could have opened his own electrical store with all those Magnaboxes. I think he still holds the record for the most Brownlow votes if you ignore the years.

I blame his longevity on that his last 7 years were great and that is what people remember, not his 10 years of brilliance

this exactly ... Harves finished up footy as a very very good player who was still in our best 22 by the time of his last game but in his last 4 years he was good on more occasions than he was great ... in the mid to late 90's Harves was top of the game his final good years do perhaps distract from how dominant his peak years were ... at the end of the day though we dont need some HS journo to tell us how good Bangers was , we all saw it first hand... the fact is when Hird Voss and Bucks were at their peak Harves was starting to wind down some what yet he was still their equal.. measuring Harves at his peak and Voss, Hird and Buckley at their peak i reckon most coaches would pick Harves first up for their team ...

[fugazi]

Harvs rated right up there by Voss and Buckley....a players player....not as eye catching as some....but ask any forward who would want someone kicking to them on a lead and it would be Harvs.

[borderbarry]

You also have to consider that Robert played over 350 games for us. He would probably be first player picked in a St.Kilda Greats team. He gave us more value than anyone else.

[noob]

People seem to forget that Robert Harvey earned all Australian as a ruck rover/rover in 6 consecutive seasons. 1994-1999. That is a decent period of dominance.

[stinger]

Can't comment on Baldock or Stewart as I never saw either play. From what my dad tells me, he is Tasmanian so might be a hint of bias, Baldock was as good as any player to wear out colours.

The Tim Lane article during the week was a super read. He must have been an incredible football player to play at CHF at 5ft 9. Imagine how good he would have been in the current era as a professional full time player.

no bias on your dad's part mate.......the doc was shorter than i was at 20 years of age......yet he played on tough 6' 2'' mongrels like bluey sheldon(?) and beat them pointless...ps lane's a tassie boy himself....but baldock and stewart were something to see.........we should have won more than the one flag with the team we had at the time.....he captained coached a team in the nwfu when he was only 19.....

[BigMart]

Argued it to death

Harvey achieved more as a saint than any other.... By a considerable margin.

If they were as good... They would have to have reached the same heights!!

I mean
384 games
Two Brownlows... Most votes of ANY player
8 times All Australian
3 time EJ Whitten Medallist
aFLPA player of the year
Won every media award in 97/98
Michael Tuck Medal.... 2 night premierships
Grand Final in 97
17 finals


And he spent from 28-31yo with multiple injuries and missed 36 games in that period.... Then played another 7 seasons.

Imagine if he did not get the injuries in his prime

Winning the footy in itself is possibly the most important skill of all..... Over 21 seasons from 16yo-37yo Harves averaged over 25 touches per game.... And this was mostly before cheap possessions

Truly remarkable IMO

And very underrated..... Best natural ball winning midfielder in my memory.

[FQF]

Great stats. Puts the argument to bed really.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

Since we are talking about Harves I think I should weigh in! When Harves isn't mentioned in the same breathe as Voss Hird Buckley it pisses me off no end!
He has the most ever disposals in the history of the game FFS? Almost 10,000 possessions over 383 games (3rd highest ever) averaging 26 disposals a game then with the back to back brownlows and the number of EJ Whitten awards he won which I think was 3, that to me shows he was the best when playing with the best!! It is mind boggling to me how Harves is never even mentioned in these things? WTF has Buckley ever done more than Harvey?? We just needed to get over Port in 04 or Syd in 05 prelim and win one of those granny's then he would have been more exalted I reckon. Being a quieter guy who didn't crave media attention would have gone against him too. Carey says he was the best mid fielder of the 90s and Buckley when asked the question who was the best player you played on Voss, Rucciuto or Hird? He said no none of them it was Robert Harvey! Voss as well as per my signature rates the great man very highly too. This issue will continually piss me off whenever it comes up!

[BigMart]

Rob Harvey achieved far more than any other saints player.... By a country mile... In every sense?....

That isn't even recognised on SS?!

So how are opposition supporters going to rate him?

He was every bit as damaging as any Saints star.... As shown by his BOG percentage.... And did it for not just years... Bu eras

He played with Ken Sheldon and Jack Seven

[Dave McNamara]

no bias on your dad's part mate.......the doc was shorter than i was at 20 years of age......yet he played on tough 6' 2'' mongrels like bluey sheldon(?) and beat them pointless...ps lane's a tassie boy himself....but baldock and stewart were something to see.........we should have won more than the one flag with the team we had at the time.....he captained coached a team in the nwfu when he was only 19.....

... never heard Baldock belittle a teammate or complain to an umpire about "the beltings he copped".

Baldock had better ground skills and ball control than Gary Ablett jnr, that his balking and evasive skills were at least the equal of Robert Harvey's, that he could mark in packs like Jonathon Brown, that he had the strength and balance of Leigh Matthews and the courage of Glenn Archer and Nick Riewoldt.

"But his greatest strength was that he could read the play two or three seconds before the rest of us. We loved Doc. To play with Darrel and to know him was to know greatness."
- Ian Cervi.

And maybe this says it all...

A sporting prodigy, he had been invited to play in a senior practice match and kicked six goals.

... aged 12.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/h ... 1aqm2.html

I also seem to remember reading somewhere that when his mum found out she freaked, and he was 'grounded' from playing senior footy for several years. Mrs B did what so many others couldn't do.




But this is the Harve's thread. IMHO, Mart makes an excellent point re Harves' longevity. Very very few play for so long, even fewer also play so well whilst playing for so long.

[BigMart]

Baldock was indeed great.... Like Ablett was a freak

But must be remembered he played about 4 and a half years as a Saint... At full fitness... Won a lazy 3 B&Fs and LGs in those years.

Post 65 Stewart was a better player.... Doc was still a VG player, in fact like Roo now... Still a matchwinner.... But never had the same movement as his youth....

I still believe his absolute best footy was played from 1957-1964.... 5 of those 8 years he wasn't a Saint