Time to go Clinton Jones

[dragit]

Oh come on Gringo, I admire Saints fans sticking up for one of their own but, let's not dress this up… It's not an awkward style. He is the worst kicking mid in the AFL, period.
Fortunately he is elite in a few other areas that can largely offset his poor disposal/decision making.
It's not Dennis Cometti's fault, it's not Redeemer's fault, the bloke wasn't drafted till he was 22 for a reason - he is a poor kick.
His career is an absolute testament to hard work, but I don't we are any risk of becoming like Melbourne if CJ plays some VFL games. We're not short on players who display a serious work ethic.
Massive heart, great work ethic, clubman etc… but with a full strength list to chose from, I think he's fringe - it's not personal, I love all of our players.
That said, he has a few credits in the bank at the moment and may still keep his spot all year.

[Middo]

When Steven & Schnieds are back do we keep ELI or Jones ..?

[Cairnsman]

We just need to keep reminding ourselves of the long term plan. CJ is part of that plan. He won't be around when the plan is scheduled to deliver but that won't detract from the fact that he will have been an integral and valued contributor to its execution.

[bigcarl]

Saw an interesting stat where CJ is eight in the competition for effective disposals this season. Some can't see beyond his awkward kicking style

[dragit]

Saw an interesting stat where CJ is eight in the competition for effective disposals this season. Some can't see beyond his awkward kicking style

Okay, It's just an awkward style, He's a really good kick.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-repla ... ality=high

[Old Mate]

Better kick.....John Butcher vs Clint Jones...?

[gringo]

Oh come on Gringo, I admire Saints fans sticking up for one of their own but, let's not dress this up… It's not an awkward style. He is the worst kicking mid in the AFL, period.
Fortunately he is elite in a few other areas that can largely offset his poor disposal/decision making.
It's not Dennis Cometti's fault, it's not Redeemer's fault, the bloke wasn't drafted till he was 22 for a reason - he is a poor kick.
His career is an absolute testament to hard work, but I don't we are any risk of becoming like Melbourne if CJ plays some VFL games. We're not short on players who display a serious work ethic.
Massive heart, great work ethic, clubman etc… but with a full strength list to chose from, I think he's fringe - it's not personal, I love all of our players.
That said, he has a few credits in the bank at the moment and may still keep his spot all year.

No one is saying he's perfect but people will stand up for Farren while bagging Clint. I would say Clint is a better decision maker and probably around the same quality of disposal. Clint wins a lot more ball in close and under more pressure so probably slightly better than Farren who is largely an outside player. I would say it's more a slight hysteria over something that isn't as huge an issue as some make out. If he just gives us an extra rotation until we have a full list of A grade mids we should be happy to have him.

[samuraisaint]

Jones has been fantastic so far. He has some deficiencies but his 1%ers are spot on every week. Plus he is now racking up possessions himself which can only be a good thing.

[dragit]

Oh come on Gringo, I admire Saints fans sticking up for one of their own but, let's not dress this up… It's not an awkward style. He is the worst kicking mid in the AFL, period.
Fortunately he is elite in a few other areas that can largely offset his poor disposal/decision making.
It's not Dennis Cometti's fault, it's not Redeemer's fault, the bloke wasn't drafted till he was 22 for a reason - he is a poor kick.
His career is an absolute testament to hard work, but I don't we are any risk of becoming like Melbourne if CJ plays some VFL games. We're not short on players who display a serious work ethic.
Massive heart, great work ethic, clubman etc… but with a full strength list to chose from, I think he's fringe - it's not personal, I love all of our players.
That said, he has a few credits in the bank at the moment and may still keep his spot all year.

No one is saying he's perfect but people will stand up for Farren while bagging Clint. I would say Clint is a better decision maker and probably around the same quality of disposal. Clint wins a lot more ball in close and under more pressure so probably slightly better than Farren who is largely an outside player. I would say it's more a slight hysteria over something that isn't as huge an issue as some make out. If he just gives us an extra rotation until we have a full list of A grade mids we should be happy to have him.

Agree… I think people also get hysterical when someone suggests that an old favourite is fringe.
Hopefully Acres, Billings, Markworth & Ross can apply some selection pressure and Jack & Schneider get back soon too.

[stinger]

We just need to keep reminding ourselves of the long term plan. CJ is part of that plan. He won't be around when the plan is scheduled to deliver but that won't detract from the fact that he will have been an integral and valued contributor to its execution.

spot on mate....as usual...

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Honestly shake my head at threads like this ... Criticism of CJ for not kicking it ?!?!? He knows his limitations and adapted to to still be an effective part of the line up .. He sprayed two early shots realised that the better option is to find someone else (something he did twice) ... Without jones that game wold of been a bigger loss in my opinion

My point remains.

His limitations are pathetic. The aim of the game is to kick the football and he cannot execute time and time again.

He runs into open-goals, craps himself, stops, drops and turns the ball over. Or when he does kick the ball it is a sitter missed from 15 metres.

This happens time and time again and it costs the team possession and then goals.

Steven and Schneider back should see him booted (parson the pun regarding a player that cannot kick) back to the twos for good.

Jones came off the rookie list ... the whole reason someone is on the rookie list is because they have some limitation in their game that prevents them from being drafted some times like in the case of CJ there are other aspects of his game that more then make up for his limitations .. the positive for CJ is he knows what his limitations are and changes his game to suit that ...
i think it would be much worse if he like Jason Gram did late in his career to continue doint things that were not working ...

obviously 10 possessions to Schnides or Steven is going to be better then 20 CJ possesions but Schnides and Jack are not an option at the moment and i will say 20 CJ posessions is better than 20 oppersition posessions

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Oh come on Gringo, I admire Saints fans sticking up for one of their own but, let's not dress this up… It's not an awkward style. He is the worst kicking mid in the AFL, period.
Fortunately he is elite in a few other areas that can largely offset his poor disposal/decision making.
It's not Dennis Cometti's fault, it's not Redeemer's fault, the bloke wasn't drafted till he was 22 for a reason - he is a poor kick.
His career is an absolute testament to hard work, but I don't we are any risk of becoming like Melbourne if CJ plays some VFL games. We're not short on players who display a serious work ethic.
Massive heart, great work ethic, clubman etc… but with a full strength list to chose from, I think he's fringe - it's not personal, I love all of our players.
That said, he has a few credits in the bank at the moment and may still keep his spot all year.

No one is saying he's perfect but people will stand up for Farren while bagging Clint. I would say Clint is a better decision maker and probably around the same quality of disposal. Clint wins a lot more ball in close and under more pressure so probably slightly better than Farren who is largely an outside player. I would say it's more a slight hysteria over something that isn't as huge an issue as some make out. If he just gives us an extra rotation until we have a full list of A grade mids we should be happy to have him.

Agree… I think people also get hysterical when someone suggests that an old favourite is fringe.
Hopefully Acres, Billings, Markworth & Ross can apply some selection pressure and Jack & Schneider get back soon too.

i disagree its not that hes an old favorite that is being pushed as a fringe the fact is at the moment people are calling for his head when there are no other options Acres played his first game on saturday after a long time off injured , Billings is bashing down the door and will prob take Savages spot , Markworth coming off a loooong lay off is being managed into being AFL ready and Seb Ross is prob still a fair way off being as effective as CJ is on the game ...
Jack if fit would be a sure thing to walk right back in .... Schnides i reckon needs to work his way back to show his body can still keep going ... in the mean time CJ has played two outstanding games and one above average game so calls for him to be shown the door are very much premature

[dragit]

at the moment people are calling for his head… so calls for him to be shown the door are very much premature

I think there is only one so far… redeemer - the most extreme poster on this site.

This is what I am talking about, people read one opinion and turn into an army of haters…

As I mentioned, I think CJ is safe for now, his first 2 games were very good and have earnt him some credits. If he plays a few more like the WCE one he will be under pressure IMO.

If we are firstly about building a premiership side then Markworth, Acres, Billings, Ross etc need games if they perform well in the 2's.

[gringo]

Honestly shake my head at threads like this ... Criticism of CJ for not kicking it ?!?!? He knows his limitations and adapted to to still be an effective part of the line up .. He sprayed two early shots realised that the better option is to find someone else (something he did twice) ... Without jones that game wold of been a bigger loss in my opinion

My point remains.

His limitations are pathetic. The aim of the game is to kick the football and he cannot execute time and time again.

He runs into open-goals, craps himself, stops, drops and turns the ball over. Or when he does kick the ball it is a sitter missed from 15 metres.

This happens time and time again and it costs the team possession and then goals.

Steven and Schneider back should see him booted (parson the pun regarding a player that cannot kick) back to the twos for good.

Jones came off the rookie list ... the whole reason someone is on the rookie list is because they have some limitation in their game that prevents them from being drafted some times like in the case of CJ there are other aspects of his game that more then make up for his limitations .. the positive for CJ is he knows what his limitations are and changes his game to suit that ...
i think it would be much worse if he like Jason Gram did late in his career to continue doint things that were not working ...

obviously 10 possessions to Schnides or Steven is going to be better then 20 CJ possesions but Schnides and Jack are not an option at the moment and i will say 20 CJ posessions is better than 20 oppersition posessions

not all rookies are limited. Milney was a rookie, Eli, Andrew Thompson, Carazzo, Kirk, Cox, Sewell, Lambumba, Nick maxwell, Max Rooke etc all went okay.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

My point remains.

His limitations are pathetic. The aim of the game is to kick the football and he cannot execute time and time again.

He runs into open-goals, craps himself, stops, drops and turns the ball over. Or when he does kick the ball it is a sitter missed from 15 metres.

This happens time and time again and it costs the team possession and then goals.

Steven and Schneider back should see him booted (parson the pun regarding a player that cannot kick) back to the twos for good.

Jones came off the rookie list ... the whole reason someone is on the rookie list is because they have some limitation in their game that prevents them from being drafted some times like in the case of CJ there are other aspects of his game that more then make up for his limitations .. the positive for CJ is he knows what his limitations are and changes his game to suit that ...
i think it would be much worse if he like Jason Gram did late in his career to continue doint things that were not working ...

obviously 10 possessions to Schnides or Steven is going to be better then 20 CJ possesions but Schnides and Jack are not an option at the moment and i will say 20 CJ posessions is better than 20 oppersition posessions

not all rookies are limited. Milney was a rookie, Eli, Andrew Thompson, Carazzo, Kirk, Cox, Sewell, Lambumba, Nick maxwell, Max Rooke etc all went okay.

all still had limitations that prevented them being picked via the draft the fact is EVERY single club passed on all of them for some reason be it percieved lack of pace.. one sided ... low fitness level ... poor draft camp results.. suspect injury concers...
thats why clubs use a rookie pick its a "lets give him a go and see what happens" type of system it has a produced some great players who showed their flaws could either be trained out of them or were over stated ...

[st_Trav_ofWA]

at the moment people are calling for his head… so calls for him to be shown the door are very much premature

I think there is only one so far… redeemer - the most extreme poster on this site.

This is what I am talking about, people read one opinion and turn into an army of haters…

As I mentioned, I think CJ is safe for now, his first 2 games were very good and have earnt him some credits. If he plays a few more like the WCE one he will be under pressure IMO.

If we are firstly about building a premiership side then Markworth, Acres, Billings, Ross etc need games if they perform well in the 2's.

i think everyone is of the opinion that if a better player puts his hand up it doesnt matter if its CJ Roo Lenny or anyone they are replaceable provided they are not doing their role ... CJ is doing his role and doing it pretty damn well his game against WCE was in no way a poor game by his standards (nor 90% of the comps standards) i reckon the coaching staff would be content with that kind of game from CJ .. does that mean he cant be pushed out hell no just means the boys looking to push him out need to do more to push him out ..

[Old Mate]

Jones certainly has his limitations and probably wouldn't get a game with most teams let alone still be on their list however he's exactly what we currently need. A hard body, fit and durable midfielder to take the hits for the young blokes. He'd be in our top 5 in he best and fairest which is more a reflection of where our list is at but nonetheless justifies his position in the team.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Jones certainly has his limitations and probably wouldn't get a game with most teams let alone still be on their list however he's exactly what we currently need. A hard body, fit and durable midfielder to take the hits for the young blokes.

i reckon most teams would take a bloke who throws himself at every contest pours his everything into getting the ball and has a never give up attitude ... differance being with our club where we are right now CJ doesnt have the quality support around him to just do what he is near on the best in the comp at doing ... put CJ into the hawthorn team where he can feed the ball out to a damaging player suddenly you see how valuble he is ... put him in Freo where his job is to get in there and feed it out to the likes of Hill .. suddenly you will see Hill become the most dangerous player in the comp .... put CJ in Melbourne where he is needed to win his own ball and do something with it to propell the team forward suddenly CJ is a GOP ... at the moment at St Kilda he is given the job to get the ball problem is a lot of the time theres not that classy player that hawthorn have or Freo have to recieve it off him so he has to play to his limitations this means hes gotta look for the best option that sometimes isnt there

[dragit]

put CJ into the hawthorn team…

Pretty sure Clarkson wouldn't do that just quietly.
At some stage you need to start playing a younger guy who isn't quite as effective…
Geelong have been turning out their experienced performers pretty consistently.
Hunt, Chapman, Podsiadly, Corey, Ling, Milburn… were all still in their "best 22" when they were either retired or delisted.
CJ is probably pretty fortunate that BJ, Ball & Dal have all left I guess, probably saved his career.
All power to him though, I except that he is still needed on the list… and has been generally very good when given his chances recently…

[The Redeemer]

at the moment people are calling for his head… so calls for him to be shown the door are very much premature

I think there is only one so far… redeemer - the most extreme poster on this site.

This is what I am talking about, people read one opinion and turn into an army of haters…

As I mentioned, I think CJ is safe for now, his first 2 games were very good and have earnt him some credits. If he plays a few more like the WCE one he will be under pressure IMO.

If we are firstly about building a premiership side then Markworth, Acres, Billings, Ross etc need games if they perform well in the 2's.

I am the most extreme poster on type forum.

I am the most right, the most often and that damn good.

Reincarnated says this, The Redeemer knows all and sees all and is plain better than you.

[stinger]

at the moment people are calling for his head… so calls for him to be shown the door are very much premature

I think there is only one so far… redeemer - the most extreme poster on this site.

This is what I am talking about, people read one opinion and turn into an army of haters…

As I mentioned, I think CJ is safe for now, his first 2 games were very good and have earnt him some credits. If he plays a few more like the WCE one he will be under pressure IMO.

If we are firstly about building a premiership side then Markworth, Acres, Billings, Ross etc need games if they perform well in the 2's.

I am the most extreme poster on type forum.

I am the most right, the most often and that damn good.

Reincarnated says this, The Redeemer knows all and sees all and is plain better than you.

yeah yeah...we all know that redeemer is you reincarnated....

[starsign]

Reincarnated you may have changed your nick to Redeemer but your still a born again proctologist
Anus painus excrutiatus!

[skeptic]

One thing that's odd about this CJ thing

People really shouldn't have changed their minds to this point.

You either
a) supported his retention as a mentor snr player in which case his form has justified his position
b wanted him delisted as he is not part of the future which means your opinion is exactly the same now as it was after rd 1

[sunsaint]

A look at me thread - who would have thought????

When a players performance becomes embarrassing, whatever means necessary.

The bloke is an unintelligent spud.

what about Eli's miss ? HE single handedly lost the WC game
If a forum poster writes the same guff week in week out,
does that make the poster an unintelligent spud that couldnt simply remove a bee from his/her bonnet?

[Playon]

CJ is currently ranked at 14th overall in footwires stats, that is out of all the players in the league.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings

Ranked 1st in Total Goal Assists
Ranked 12th in Total Disposals
Ranked 12th in Total Effective Disposals
Ranked 14th in Handballs Per Game
Ranked 7th in Uncontested Possessions Per Game
Ranked 10th in Total Handballs
Ranked 7th in Total Uncontested Possessions
Ranked 2nd in Goal Assists Per Game
Ranked 14th in Disposals Per Game
Ranked 13th in Effective Disposals Per Game
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-s ... nton-jones

These look like pretty impressive stats to me, but lets not let the facts get in the way of a perfect rant.