vacuous space wrote:dragit wrote:How do the statisticians measure pressure?
Contested possessions. A short kick to a contest isn't going to be deemed effective no matter the outcome. A mark on lead will be. A handball has to lead to an uncontested possession to be deemed effective.
Efficiency without context doesn't indicate that anybody's disposal is 'better' than anyone else's. Just more 'effective', whatever it's worth. I don't think anyone would advocate using it without context. I brought it up because, I believe, if Jones was practicing high risk behaviour with the footy, it would show in efficiency stats. Compared with players who had similar amount of contested footy and kick-to-handball ratio, (like, say, Luke Parker) his efficiency (69%) and clanger count (38 from disposal) last year was wholly unremarkable. Not great; not bad.
If there's something that the stats can't tell you that you can only get through watching, I'd like to know what it is. I've watched every game he's ever played for the club and I would consider him to be a limited player who plays within his limits. I think certain people have been biased against him from day one because of the awkward kicking style and, as I said before, I think he's now suffering from an anti-age bias. The people who want great kicks want him out and the people who want more kids want him out. I don't think those people need to apologise. I pity any supporter who doesn't revel in any great performance from any player who pulls on the jumper.
Thanks for the run-down… and agree with what you've said
I think people do point to disposal efficiency as a measure of how well a player is using the footy, which as you mentioned is flawed without context…
2013 %
jones 69
ablett 67
judd 64
fyfe 63
No sane person would suggest that Clint is a better user of the footy than the other 3. Understanding his limitations, he will often chip the ball backwards to a man on his own… these kicks obviously increase your efficiency %, but don't increase the teams chances of scoring.
There is no stat for disposal quality, which would be impossible to measure but clearly, players like Pendlebury and Dangerfield are lethal with the ball even if their overall efficiency % is around the same mark as Zac Dawson. I also think that a disposal classed as effective, can still put a team-mate under more pressure than is necessary… depending how long the ball hangs in the air. Others seem to refute this notion though.
I do find watching CJ frustrating at times, but it doesn't mean I don't like him or recognise his incredible work rate. Riewoldt can be extremely frustrating to watch too, if his goal kicking is off. While CJ has been dropped briefly the past couple of seasons, he is an incredible fighter… earnt his way back and last Saturday's performance obviously thrilled the new coach. I certainly don't begrudge his spot in the side if he continues to play like that, though playing against the better sides it will obviously be a lot harder with the pressure that comes.
As I mentioned in the Maister thread, I hate nothing more than hearing bronx cheers for any Saints player, however critiquing players on a fan forum is completely different IMO, we all have our biases, no doubt.