Bottoming out well

[kosifantutti]

I don't think anyone is saying finish bottom, get picks = flag.... I think most people realise it's how you complement this with solid drafting along the way and that's a given

What finishing low absolutely, categorically, scientifically and any other (ally) we can think of, does is it puts you at the front if the queue for if/when a Patton or Boyd emerges (and that alone increases your overall drafting/trading power)

Reality for us is we do t have the choice to finish 'middle table to scrounge picks' as our core star group is dusted, we need high quality kids in and Pelchen (by aiming to get us as many high picks he can in short - mid term) knows this.

Battling it out mid table and picking up Mcglynns alone will only ensure we are Carlton IMO and will also ensure that should we want a quality injection of talent then we will end up paying through the nose for it under FA (bad way to chew up cap space and our us back in "eggs in 1 basket" category) IMO

But tanking is really an eggs in 1 basket strategy. The only difference between finishing last and finishing first is that first pick. If he turns out to be an average player or less than you hoped for then what was the point?

IMO it's much better to develop kids while trying to win games, draft the best you can and get them into a winning culture.

[FQF]

Absolutely agree. Also, the marketing and membership wreck that can be brought about by a hopeless team can be devastating.

Not to mention that history shows time and time again that the top 3 picks are usually anyone's guess. And same goes for 5-20.

[Teflon]

I don't think anyone is saying finish bottom, get picks = flag.... I think most people realise it's how you complement this with solid drafting along the way and that's a given

What finishing low absolutely, categorically, scientifically and any other (ally) we can think of, does is it puts you at the front if the queue for if/when a Patton or Boyd emerges (and that alone increases your overall drafting/trading power)

Reality for us is we do t have the choice to finish 'middle table to scrounge picks' as our core star group is dusted, we need high quality kids in and Pelchen (by aiming to get us as many high picks he can in short - mid term) knows this.

Battling it out mid table and picking up Mcglynns alone will only ensure we are Carlton IMO and will also ensure that should we want a quality injection of talent then we will end up paying through the nose for it under FA (bad way to chew up cap space and our us back in "eggs in 1 basket" category) IMO

But tanking is really an eggs in 1 basket strategy. The only difference between finishing last and finishing first is that first pick. If he turns out to be an average player or less than you hoped for then what was the point?

IMO it's much better to develop kids while trying to win games, draft the best you can and get them into a winning culture.

Nothing has guarantees and again getting a top pick doesn't mean stop developing - the two aren't mutually exclusive and I don't believe it has to be eggs in 1 basket at all.

Sure, luck to get N Riewoldt over a lessor player is still there but I'd rather still have control of the highest pick I can at the draft or trade table any day - are we truly saying Pelchen has it wrong to be attempting to "up" our draft picks every chance he gets??? Why???

If we were tanking (and no ones advocating that) we'd trade Armo, Joey, Fisher, Gilbert aka do a Melbourne. We aren't so I think tanking is irrelevant

Facts are we have second youngest list to GWS and an old core. We are going to finish near last so we will be drafting high and that's a good thing right now - we just have to pick well and be a little lucky OR use top pick to prize loose a Boyd.... (I can dream..)

Winning culture?? Not sure in football that doesn't come and go with your list tbh - some would argue Carlton have 16 flags? And a "winning culture" I'd argue they've been shyte for a decade trying to "win games" and pretend they are top 4 challengers when they aren't and as a result will have to pay over the odds at FA or take a dive to get picks

There's no doubt our last decade was on the back if multiple bottoming outs (thanks Tim) and using picks well. Do that again and a winning culture will come.

Is that full proof? No but neither is developing kids....

[SinCitySainter]

The Key thing is not the picks from 1 - 5 that you can get but can the quality you draft further down the list.
Thankfully we now have a man in Pelchen who has a strong record in selecting better than average players.
Look at the side that got us to the GFs, apart from Roo and Goddard none of our 'Stars" were top 5 picks, Hayes was 7 so close.
Pick 2 Kosi was a good ordinary player who had one purple patch in his career but apart from that was never more than a serviceable footballer and good servant of the club certainly no star of the game.
X was pick 5 cruelled by injury so we never saw his best but you could never say he was a star.
Ball was a star for a couple of years early on but then injury and disenchantment meant he was nothing more than a solid player during our best years.
However, we had stars in Dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher and Milne who were all picked outside the top ten, what that means is that the majority of clubs had a look at them before us.
It is finding those players that is the key to success.
You then just have to develop them, develop a winning game plan, be able to implement it, keep them on the park and keep them on the rails. EASY.
What I am trying to say is you need a lot of luck or a lot of money which can swing luck in your favour.

[BigMart]

Pelchin did select Thorp, Muston and Dowler?

It's still a bit not an exact science

[Con Gorozidis]

If we were tanking (and no ones advocating that) we'd trade Armo, Joey, Fisher, Gilbert aka do a Melbourne. We aren't so I think tanking is irrelevant

Facts are we have second youngest list to GWS and an old core. We are going to finish near last so we will be drafting high and that's a good thing right now - we just have to pick well and be a little lucky OR use top pick to prize loose a Boyd.... (I can dream..)

..

Fisher is not tradeable - I think we tried but noone was interested.

Do we we really have the 2nd youngest list? Can someone confirm/provide a source for that that? Or is it a Saints myth?

[Teflon]

If we were tanking (and no ones advocating that) we'd trade Armo, Joey, Fisher, Gilbert aka do a Melbourne. We aren't so I think tanking is irrelevant

Facts are we have second youngest list to GWS and an old core. We are going to finish near last so we will be drafting high and that's a good thing right now - we just have to pick well and be a little lucky OR use top pick to prize loose a Boyd.... (I can dream..)

..

Fisher is not tradeable - I think we tried but noone was interested.

Do we we really have the 2nd youngest list? Can someone confirm/provide a source for that that? Or is it a Saints myth?

It's either second youngest list or most kids under x games behind only GWS (reported only recently) can't remember exact but yeah we are officially "inexperienced"

Supplement Fisher out for any other 26+ player on our,it's IF we were tanking - we are not so its moot

[citywest]

We need to stay in the bottom 4 for at least another 3 years. The best way to achieve this is to keep trading out players for draft picks. As I have stated previously, at the end of this season we should trade Gilbert and Armitage in order to improve our draft picks. Over the next 3 years I want the following....2014 picks 1 and 19, 2015 picks 2 and 20, 2016 picks 3 and 21 and traded players who are over 27 for even more picks. 2017 should be the year when we really start our climb up the ladder with a flag by 2022.

Oh well at least we aren't dig cheats like your team with a coach in exile in France.

FFS, I don't barrack for Essenscum you stupid moron.