DR. SCHOLL to be appointed to staff

[White Winmar]

I am starting to doubt the "burn out rather than rust out" training mantra. We are experiencing an unprecedented epidemic in foot injuries. At present, we have Milera, Gilbert, Steven, Fisher and possibly Roberton all out, some for considerable periods.

Is the LHC surface too hard? Are we not managing training loads and recovery properly? We haven't seen this sort of run with injuries since the great soft tissue injury epidemic of the GT years. Any theories are welcome. Dr. Scholl, where are you?

[White Winmar]

Maybe we need those spikes-insoled, open-toed sandals are the answer. Can we get stops into those?

[Con Gorozidis]

You raise a legitimate point WW.
Foot injuries - and these ones seem to be stress fractures indicate too much running on hard surfaces.
Might be a combination because Bas has them doing more sprint work than they are used to and/or the surface being hard.
Can even be a shoe issue.

[SainterK]

Etihad surely?

[dragit]

Maybe we could spend a million bucks upgrading the surface at seafood just before we leave... Just like we did at Kingston town.

[saintsRrising]

Etihad surely?

We don't train there. And we have not played there this season. So no.

[plugger66]

Etihad surely?

Because of all the games we have played there in the last 5 months?

[SainterK]

Etihad surely?

We don't train there. And we have not played there this season. So no.

Why do we have to have played there recently?

It could of been over a period of time, it's bit always about the when but the how.

It's notorious IMO, and constantly dismissed when raised.

[derby Street]

Love it Sainter K. You got a couple - ironic really as Pluggs is normally very good at this

[plugger66]

Etihad surely?

We don't train there. And we have not played there this season. So no.

Why do we have to have played there recently?

It could of been over a period of time, it's bit always about the when but the how.

It's notorious IMO, and constantly dismissed when raised.

So Jack Steven hurst his foot because of playing there 5 months ago. No. Actually apart Fisher all the other injuries happened this season so again no. Referred injuries from 6 months ago. No. More running and harder training. Probably.

[derby Street]

Sorry Pluggs - K was serious ???????

[ozrulestrace]

Is there a podiatrist on staff?

Just thinking some may need orthotics .

Just like some players would prefer a chiropractor rather than a physio.

[supersaints]

Are the players wearing ugg boots?

[stevie]

Didn't know Craig was a medical man

[Bushman]

I actually worked Dr Scholl in Australia for 16 years and visited the club to help with stress injuries years ago, eventually the the Podiatrists decided they didn't want our help. At the time many of the players were were wearing hard Orthotics both for playing and training and were breaking down. IMHO all players should be training with soft EVA or PU (high energy absorbing) insoles except on game days where energy return becomes more important for performance. The standard boot is a torture chamber for feet and the players need support, around 80-85% of the population pronate so most payers should have some assistance with foot alignment. I tend to think most of the damage is done in traning and pre-season which is then compounded by the hard grounds on game day.

[plugger66]

Didn't know Craig was a medical man

He isnt but Brett is.

[White Winmar]

I actually worked Dr Scholl in Australia for 16 years and visited the club to help with stress injuries years ago, eventually the the Podiatrists decided they didn't want our help. At the time many of the players were were wearing hard Orthotics both for playing and training and were breaking down. IMHO all players should be training with soft EVA or PU (high energy absorbing) insoles except on game days where energy return becomes more important for performance. The standard boot is a torture chamber for feet and the players need support, around 80-85% of the population pronate so most payers should have some assistance with foot alignment. I tend to think most of the damage is done in traning and pre-season which is then compounded by the hard grounds on game day.

Sounds like it's time to go back there, Bushman. They may need your expertise. The way we're going, there will be no one left to pick from by mid year.

[saintspremiers]

Perhaps LHC surface is too hard due to lack of watering.

Wouldn't surprise me that baulking on a few extra $$$ on water bills may have caused this.

[dragit]

Perhaps LHC surface is too hard due to lack of watering.

Wouldn't surprise me that baulking on a few extra $$$ on water bills may have caused this.

I reckon we can still afford to water the ground. just sayn'

[tony74]

Perhaps LHC surface is too hard due to lack of watering.

Wouldn't surprise me that baulking on a few extra $$$ on water bills may have caused this.

Soft as a baby's bum. No problem there.

[gringo]

I remember there was a podiatrist type shoe shop that was in Glenhuntly Road Glenhuntly that was supposedly owned by an ex Saints player from the olden days. Maybe they are still going and can supply insoles. We need all the help we can get. Strap some Cumfs on Lenny and Shnieders hammies.

[Dave McNamara]

I actually worked Dr Scholl in Australia for 16 years and visited the club to help with stress injuries years ago, eventually the the Podiatrists decided they didn't want our help. At the time many of the players were were wearing hard Orthotics both for playing and training and were breaking down. IMHO all players should be training with soft EVA or PU (high energy absorbing) insoles except on game days where energy return becomes more important for performance. The standard boot is a torture chamber for feet and the players need support, around 80-85% of the population pronate so most payers should have some assistance with foot alignment. I tend to think most of the damage is done in traning and pre-season which is then compounded by the hard grounds on game day.

Hi BM, interesting post, and for mine certainly in the right ballpark. I did however find parts of your post a bit confusing as to what you intended(?)

'Soft EVA' inserts, but you also wrote that that the players need more support(?)

I assume by 'pronate' you mean 'pronate excessively'(?) That would then be close to 100% of the population. IMHO it then comes down to whether or not one gets away with it...

So to control an excessively pronating foot, increased shock absorption (via high energy absorbing insoles?) would seem to be counter-productive IMHO, as the heel would pronate/evert further into said material as the material compresses, and hence lead to even further excess pronation of the foot(?)

Personally, I would hope that all our players have their lower limb biomechanics assessed, and that those in need get semi-rigid thermoplastic in-shoe courthotics. That said, I'd also be hoping that orthoses aren't seen as the 'magic bullet' (which can be a problem with the approach of too many Pods), and that any muscle weakness/tightness or functioning leg length diff' is also looked at... with the appropriate referrals off (which can also be a problem with the approach of too many Pods).

[Bushman]

Hi Dave,

There is a significant tradeoff in place with support Vs energy absorbtion and I take with your piont on my inconsistency. To explain, those payers who do not have significant gait issues can probably gain more from a softer form Orthotic at say 4 degrees or less when training, my piont on the harder shore A product was more about better performance on game day. Certainly all the players need to managed differently and Orthoses aren't a magic bullet. If you look at the insoles sold in boots they are just terrible and if there isn't a biomechanical issue a sofer cushioning insole with some support could be ideal for those that are close to neutral, even a layer of an Implus type material can assist tremendously. I read the the players are said to be fitter then ever and over training may be the cause of some of the issues. Stress fractures often occur as a result of too much initial training and not enough progressive build. You seem to know your stuff, I'm a bit rusty so I would defer to your opinions.
Cheers

[ozrulestrace]

I remember there was a podiatrist type shoe shop that was in Glenhuntly Road Glenhuntly that was supposedly owned by an ex Saints player from the olden days. Maybe they are still going and can supply insoles. We need all the help we can get. Strap some Cumfs on Lenny and Shnieders hammies.

Gilmours?

[Animal Enclosure]

My podiatrist worked for the Saints in the GT era (a fantastic source of info in those days too) & was responsible for getting the playing group out of wearing the old cheap rubber thongs & into masseur type sandals. This got a fair bit of publicity at the time & in hindsight, didn't really help our continual injuries!