IMPORTANT FORUM UPDATE

[BackFromUSA]

Hi all

There appears to be a technical glitch preventing new registrations and this will be fixed ASAP (Arggghhh)

I have just heard from battye tonight.

1) The forum is now open for anyone to read BUT to post you must be a registered user ... see point 1

2) The forum is now TAPATALK compliant HOWEVER this is NOT something battye has done before and wants us to roadtest it and point out any issues

3) he has made me an ADMINISTRATOR due to the agitation in the past few days and has given me his blessing to find an appropriate governance model

4) battye whilst volunteering to help with phpBB when he can is essentially putting me as the new so called "leader" but I view this as just a temporary status

Please note I did not ASK for this to be done. Battye felt it was fair that he do so as I was hamstrung by his inability to dedicate the time required for our needs.

In reference to a governance model, I welcome CAIRNSMAN'S input and believe he is drafting a constitution and a shareholders scheme / voting rights and in conjunction, I would like to propose a slightly different model without actual shareholders but including a voluntary board of management with assigned duties and for that board of management to undertake a process of confirmation (rather than a pure popularity vote) similar to how judges are appointed in democracies.

I am WELL AWARE that there are forum members that will strongly object to me being the ADMIN or "owner" but I want to assure EVERYONE that my aim is to spread the key decision making amongst a board of long time posters with positions to be filled such as chairman, treasurer, moderation manager, news manager, graphics manager, club liaison officer and importantly an IT Manager that will oversee a PAID consultant to ensure that this forum is top notch technology wise.

I have asked battye to recommend a suitable paid consultant.

I also believe it essential that anyone sitting on the board will have to commit to 4 board meetings per year (one per quarter) to discuss the present and future.

Yes - you must be prepared to site with other forumites face to face at my place and actually have meaningful conversations about the Saintsational forum!

MODERATION

In other news, we have had a volunteer for an additional moderator and having reviewed the poster's history I can see that BUCKETS will be a great moderator.

I would LOVE to have a panel of 3 active moderators and I shall re-approach dals_da_bomb to see if I can convince her to come back and actively moderate.

Anyone else like to moderate? It is a well respected job. Lots of perks. Selection criteria is simple - you have to be almost conflict free / breach free in your history.

The good news is that there are robust rules and it is just a matter of applying them fairly ... with 3 MODS any one of the 3 could edit and or move possible offending posts ... then as a group of 3 vote on whether a warning should be issued. The only problem is that this process could take a day or two and by then the offending poster may have transgressed again without knowing of a warning in their new future. Something else to think about but hopefully we can resolve it.

If I remain in the Admin role as a one of seven board members (I would like to be either club liaison manager or even chairman) then I could resign as moderator.

That will make some people very happy!



Simon

[BackFromUSA]

I forgot to add ... comments and suggestions welcomed!

[GrumpyOne]

Anyone else like to moderate? It is a well respected job. Lots of perks. Selection criteria is simple - you have to be almost conflict free / breach free in your history.

That just about omits everyone that holds any sort of strong conviction about anything, and those who have been baited to such an extent that they have bitten back.

An old umpire once told me that the best umpires were the ones who transgressed the rules frequently when they played. He figured that with such experience, they could easily pick out the difference between major and minor transgressions, and the difference between accidental and deliberate contact.

This is not a forum designed for the Good Sisters of Mary to read. It is for Saints supporters. We are a motley and eclectic lot, often given to intense frustration at our team's inability to win more than one premiership. The discussions should not be of the pious sanctity of the Convent cloisters, but the outer at Moorabbin, around where the bar-b-que used to be.

Quelling the spirit of the outer will lead to the demise of this forum.

[Cairnsman]

Before I get stuck into making my detailed contribution to what I think could be one of the significant events in Saintsational's history with regards to our opportunity to hopefully ensure Saintsational maintains its place as one of the leading AFL fan forums, I would just like to publically thank BFUSA for not only volunteering the time he does but also for helping to provide this opportunity. Whilst BFUSA and I have had some robust discussion over the past couple of weeks, for the most part we stuck to the cause and hopefully the rest of the Saintsational community will join the discussion and contribute where they can. Your contribution is needed and hopefully this debate can rise to a level that delivers.

On a final note I'd like to remind everyone that Saintsational is one of the founding fan forums in the AFL and as such it holds a significant place in the social media landscape, lets come together and put aside any differences to combine our collective talents and keep it that way.

[Cairnsman]

Anyone else like to moderate? It is a well respected job. Lots of perks. Selection criteria is simple - you have to be almost conflict free / breach free in your history.

That just about omits everyone that holds any sort of strong conviction about anything, and those who have been baited to such an extent that they have bitten back.

An old umpire once told me that the best umpires were the ones who transgressed the rules frequently when they played. He figured that with such experience, they could easily pick out the difference between major and minor transgressions, and the difference between accidental and deliberate contact.

This is not a forum designed for the Good Sisters of Mary to read. It is for Saints supporters. We are a motley and eclectic lot, often given to intense frustration at our team's inability to win more than one premiership. The discussions should not be of the pious sanctity of the Convent cloisters, but the outer at Moorabbin, around where the bar-b-que used to be.

Quelling the spirit of the outer will lead to the demise of this forum.

GO I tend to agree with you on this point and touched on this with BSFUSA during our discussions over the past couple of weeks where BFUSA argued that the website should be for all ages which personally I think is almost a separate debate all together with regards to cyber safety and what parents will and wont let their children access on the net. Suffice to say I posted in another thread yesterday that age limits for Saintsational could be thought of as the age most parents are comfortable to let their kids go to the footy on their own. Myself, I wasn't allowed to the footy on my own until I was 16 and I think by then my ears were ready to hear some adult content. I know that I won't let my children access anything on the internet that allows them to have communication with strangers and probably wont be allowed to until they are nearing 16 but I will review the situation when we get closer to that age. Anyway I argued with BSFUSA that Saintsational might be exactly what you allude to in that its members are the ones that used to hang in the outer at Moorabbin or now hang in the adults only sections of Etihad or MCG, or they hang in bars with mates to watch on TV. I'm not saying that we should exclude members based on age, I'm just saying that if possible we should have a deeper look at our member profile by way of possible survey and develop a sense of what our attraction is. That way when we are making decisions about what it is we want to do with Saintsational we are working backwards from what the market wants.

Anyway GO whilst I have some thoughts about moderation I will probably focus on contributing to other things over the ensuing days such as the ownership model, constitution and management structures which IMO overarches moderation. For the record I'm all for moderation and think that BSFUSA is doing a mostly good job albeit I think a few things need tweaking and to that end am happy to leave others contribute to that as they see fit. Fingers crossed we get it right.

[kosifantutti]

Well done on getting those changes implemented.

I can confirm that unregisterd posters can read the forum.

I can't find this forum on Tapatalk.

On the subject of a paid consultant, I'm sure a few besides Battye have made comments that suggested they know what they are talking about when it comes to Message boards.

[Cairnsman]

Hi all,

Whilst I have initiated the push with BFUSA to open the debate on the issue of ownership and administration I would like to stress that our next step should involve all SS members that wish to participate and hopefully we can draw on the collective talents and minds of SS to come up with a model that will deliver a better and sustainable SS. As such I am proposing that we first develop and implement processes to be used for preparing a draft constitution and I'm also thinking that within these processes we also need to develop and implement a voting system.

To get the ball rolling I think we should initially a survey of SS members to ask if they want to be involved in the process and build a list of willing participants. That way when it comes time to vote on the first item of business we are able to ensure that all members have had an opportunity to contribute and that their vote is counted.

Should we send PMs to posters as this will activate an email to them with an invitation to join the process? I think the admin are able to send global PMs with phpBB software. BFUSA can you please check this out when you get a chance?

[GrumpyOne]

With you there Cairnsey.

[BackFromUSA]

I am all for creating a constitution and a board of management BUT I believe that there will be some non-negotiables after I have contacted the original creator of the site for his input. I hope everyone is willing to concede that he is entitled to that.

The other element is that the constitutional panel should have voices from a wide cross section of posters - old / young / male / female / new / old etc

The panel MUST be prepared to meet around a table to discuss and develop the constitution UNLESS they are interstate and even then we could use skype

[Cairnsman]

I am all for creating a constitution and a board of management BUT I believe that there will be some non-negotiables after I have contacted the original creator of the site for his input. I hope everyone is willing to concede that he is entitled to that.

What are the non-negotiable items in your mind? Would you be presenting your own non-negotiables to Damien and asking him to agree or will Damien just be invited to come on here and have an open discussion. For the record I think open discussion should be how we move forward and that includes all questions asked of Damien and his responses.

The other element is that the constitutional panel should have voices from a wide cross section of posters - old / young / male / female / new / old etc

Absolutely, and by constitutional panel do you mean the 7 person board up for proposal? In any case I think it would be a good idea to initiate the survey of as many SS members as soon as possible and ask them the simple question of "do they want to participate?". If they respond with "yes" then they should be added to a list of members that have explicitly stated that they wish for their voice to be heard. Otherwise we may start debating items that are supported without little fact or figure or just not be representative of the general SS community.

The panel MUST be prepared to meet around a table to discuss and develop the constitution UNLESS they are interstate and even then we could use skype

Again if we are talking about the proposed 7 person board then I personally agree. I also think that the agenda for these meetings should be communicated and the discussions minuted and/or open for public viewing in some way, similar to the transparency shown in most local councils.

[BackFromUSA]

I have been doing a lot of thinking and tomorrow I shall start drafting these thoughts into a working paper for discussion

[matrix]

dude
youve gone from nothing to making it as complicated as hell

just update the f****** forum into the 21st century and appoint some mods
constitutions and meetings

i mean seriously? bit over board isnt it
just update the place

[GrumpyOne]

dude
youve gone from nothing to making it as complicated as hell

just update the f****** forum into the 21st century and appoint some mods
constitutions and meetings

i mean seriously? bit over board isnt it
just update the place

Agreed. Its become as convoluted as one of Roskilde's GF posts here.

[Dis Believer]

Dear lawd, really ?????

Maybe once we've done this we can also form a body corporate?

Once that's been tackled, maybe there'll be time to take on updating the functionality of this place ??

[Cairnsman]

Dear lawd, really ?????

Maybe once we've done this we can also form a body corporate?

Once that's been tackled, maybe there'll be time to take on updating the functionality of this place ??

Acknowledge it does sound the long way around however the current long absence of BFUSA just further highlights the need to address the issue of ownership and administration so that there is an active administration capable of being available for service. Clearly BFUSA is absent due to personal reasons which is understandable however we clearly need a system where there are provisions and/or contingencies for cases such as the unavoidable absence of an administrator. Hypothetically speaking, if BFUSA was to become permanently unavailable and without notice it could place the website in a vulnerable position which is just another example of the need to address ownership and administration.

So as I say, I acknowledge the issue seems the long way around and might initially delay work getting started on items such as functionality however hopefully posters see the need to address ownership and administration as a priority because my fear is if we don't the consequences could be far greater than out-dated functionality.

[bobmurray]

There's a seismic shift right there. Up until recently BFTUSA was running the place, but, quite clearly now the man from Cairns is pulling the strings.

A 7 man board to run a fan forum, there's some lateral thinking. Edward would be impressed.

How is one meant to keep up with all the developments, takeover bids, the impending lobbying for a seat at the board table.
This could be more interesting than the game itself.

[matrix]

this will certainly be.....interesting

[Cairnsman]

There's a seismic shift right there. Up until recently BFTUSA was running the place, but, quite clearly now the man from Cairns is pulling the strings.

A 7 man board to run a fan forum, there's some lateral thinking. Edward would be impressed.

How is one meant to keep up with all the developments, takeover bids, the impending lobbying for a seat at the board table.
This could be more interesting than the game itself.

Not the case at all, I am merely leading the discussion. I have no interest in ownership or administration other than to assist with facilitating a transition to an improved website. To answer your question I suppose you can keep up with developments by keeping your eye on this thread.

[Dis Believer]

Again, another thread about the ongoing lifeblood and future of the forum that needs acoustic panels due to the deafening silence !!!!

Ownership should be a matter of freely available public knowledge in my opinion (this doesn't seem to be the case unless I am simply out of "the loop"). Even if it is only public knowledge of a poster nic.

A 3 person admin group to insure that at least one admin is available to handle any issues most of the time, also creates a vote arrangement for any changes, rather than the forum being at the mercy of the wishes of an individual.

More mods ( I suggest 5 active mods needed, but, whatever), with limited terms of 12 months at a time as a mod. Successive 12 month terms can be served if the mod is happy to do it and the community wants them to stay on (majority rules so any individual spats cannot effect mod selection).

Discuss with other interested parties about functionality, thats not a biggie for me as long as I can log in and catch up with the latest Saints news and share the wondrous insights of P66 and BIgMart......

[matrix]

geez a lou would you look at the time
theres a game of footy this friday

someones going to be busy thursday

let me guess
youve hit a brick wall 389 feet thick with he who apparently 'owns' the joint??

[saintly]

still cannot see saintsational on Tapatalk Truesainters is now on there as well as Big Footy.

[matrix]

simon
hoping that your family situation is being taken care of by yourself and that all is going ok
look forward to seeing you about the place soon



to all other admin
it seems youve done nothing to help simon in his quest to improve the site
no one took over the mantle when he had to go away for family probs
maybe you have issues yourselves, i dont know, and certainly hope not

someone needs to contact the owner of this site and see if he wants to either be a part of it or not.
one bloke cannot do it all

[Cairnsman]

simon
hoping that your family situation is being taken care of by yourself and that all is going ok
look forward to seeing you about the place soon



to all other admin
it seems youve done nothing to help simon in his quest to improve the site
no one took over the mantle when he had to go away for family probs
maybe you have issues yourselves, i dont know, and certainly hope not

someone needs to contact the owner of this site and see if he wants to either be a part of it or not.
one bloke cannot do it all

It just highlights the need to address the issue of ownership and administration as a priority over all other issues. Simon is still around and was last seen in this thread on 22 March:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84908&p=1441371#p1441371

I am confident that when Simon returns he will take up where he left off...until then what else can we do. As I say, Simons unexpected absence just highlights the precarious position the website is in with regards to ownership and administration.

[matrix]

two of the admin havent posted in over two years
batye has not posted in over three months

seriously wtf?

[Cairnsman]

two of the admin havent posted in over two years
batye has not posted in over three months

seriously wtf?

Batye has handed his keys over to BFUSA. As far as I know the person that holds all of the control is BFUSA so once he returns it is just a matter of picking the ball up again.