Frawley puts contract talks on hold

[samuraisaint]

Ours - possibly Roberton, Newnes, Steven, Armitage, Hickey, Longer, etc etc
Theirs, possibly Hogan, Toumpas, Viney
The main reason I disagree with your post is that Melbourne until recently were still picking up blokes like Dawes, Rodan and Clarke from other clubs to top up their list. That does not indicate a club who are well and truly into a rebuild. The Bullies and Port are further along than us, yes. But Melbourne; no. Watts and Grimes have been dissappointing over the journey. Nathan Jones is a great clubman, but not a legitimate star.
I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

[satchmo]

frawley would go to colonwood as a replacement for maxwell .

This will happen. Of course he wont decide until the seasons over, by which time he's probably had some sort of disagreement with the coach/club.

[SaintPav]

I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

Based on what? Our first round performances the last two seasons when we were favourites?

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us, especially in round 1.

Silly comment.

[falka]

I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

Based on what? Our first round performances the last two seasons when we were favourites?

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us, especially in round 1.

Silly comment.

The Silly comment is basing result around rd 1 from previous years. That makes no sense at all.
Expectations are personal things, so to say expecting to beat Melbourne, isnt that silly.
There are a few months to go, lets see how the teams prepare and line up at that point.

P.S I expect to beat them based on the alignment of the planets and the fact that Melbourne are crap

[samuraisaint]

I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

Based on what? Our first round performances the last two seasons when we were favourites?

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us, especially in round 1.

Silly comment.

Okay, how's this
They haven't beaten us for seven years - and rarely in nine (when we had deep injury lists)
+Based on their terrible record at Etihad.
+Based on the unlikelyhood of Dawes, Clarke and Hogan playing round 1 and being underdone if they do.

...

[plugger66]

Ours - possibly Roberton, Newnes, Steven, Armitage, Hickey, Longer, etc etc
Theirs, possibly Hogan, Toumpas, Viney
The main reason I disagree with your post is that Melbourne until recently were still picking up blokes like Dawes, Rodan and Clarke from other clubs to top up their list. That does not indicate a club who are well and truly into a rebuild. The Bullies and Port are further along than us, yes. But Melbourne; no. Watts and Grimes have been dissappointing over the journey. Nathan Jones is a great clubman, but not a legitimate star.
I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

Well i could find most Melbourne supporters who say they possibly have 7 or 8 who are chance and we have only 2 or 3. I still say they have better first and second round picks than us for the last 2 or 3 years until the last draft which IMO puts then ahead of us on the rebuild. By the way if Clark gets fit it is an inspired pick IMO.

And us beating them in round one doesnt mean they arent head of us in the rebuild. it will probably mean Lenny, Rooy and Fish have been in the top 6 on the ground.

[samuraisaint]

Fair enough. I would argue though that when we play at our best it is when the younger players are amongst our best, especially in the midfield. I don't believe Melbourne are ahead of us in a rebuild because I think that Roos going to Melbourne puts them back at Year Zero. I agree that our rebuild is at a stage comparable to theirs, but we have already made a start, beginning with our ruck stocks and key defenders, due largely to necessity. Melbourne will be looking to offload a lot of their previous high draft pick selections for more early draft picks at the end of the year as Roos' philosophy is closer to Lyon's that that of the previous regimes.
I also believe that Melbourne is 'broken' as a footy club and a summer with Roos is not going to fix that. I base this on some of their performances which reminded me vividly of some of ours circa late 70's until 1987 when we became more competitive. Last year we weren't always great but at least we tried. Even against Geelong there was some semblence of brinkmanship and grit, despite the fact that it was a dog of a night (forgive the mixed metaphor there).
And look, just a comment but if you are going to reply, can you please post something original, rather than just a reposte of what I have said as, after all　that is what vigorous discussion is all about.

[plugger66]

Fair enough. I would argue though that when we play at our best it is when the younger players are amongst our best, especially in the midfield. I don't believe Melbourne are ahead of us in a rebuild because I think that Roos going to Melbourne puts them back at Year Zero. I agree that our rebuild is at a stage comparable to theirs, but we have already made a start, beginning with our ruck stocks and key defenders, due largely to necessity. Melbourne will be looking to offload a lot of their previous high draft pick selections for more early draft picks at the end of the year as Roos' philosophy is closer to Lyon's that that of the previous regimes.
I also believe that Melbourne is 'broken' as a footy club and a summer with Roos is not going to fix that. I base this on some of their performances which reminded me vividly of some of ours circa late 70's until 1987 when we became more competitive. Last year we weren't always great but at least we tried. Even against Geelong there was some semblence of brinkmanship and grit, despite the fact that it was a dog of a night (forgive the mixed metaphor there).
And look, just a comment but if you are going to reply, can you please post something original, rather than just a reposte of what I have said as, after all　that is what vigorous discussion is all about.

I dont even get what you are talking about in the last paragraph but maybe im not that smart. Well we agree to disagree on what stages the 2 clubs are at in the rebuild and because I still think our older players, apart from jack, Will still be our best players this season then we may not know for a couple of years who is at the better stage in the rebuild.

[Johnny Favier]

frawley would go to colonwood as a replacement for maxwell .

I get the feeling he'd be more likely to go to Hawthorn - with the war chest they have now since Buddy left, I think they'd make him an offer that'd be hard to refuse.

Guys all clubs have same salary cap if any club has room it is the saints but more likely he would look for flag chance club.

Was wanting Stkilda when Neeld stuffed club up rumour was not started hear either .

Really hope Stkilda target Patton Plowman & Jaksch last 2 uncontracted from Gws myself

I understand about the salary cap being the same, I guess what I was getting at more was that the Hawks would've budgeted x amount of dollars to renew Buddy's contract - if he'd stayed.
But now they have that "Buddy space" left after he walked, they'd be a major player in the next free agency period you'd think + they're still within their "premiership window" would also be a bonus.

Having said that, I'd still love to see him in a Saints guernsey next year - would settle out the back 6 nicely....not to mention the gun forwards we're gonna draft at the end of this year!

[bergholt]

Even against Geelong there was some semblence of brinkmanship...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[SaintPav]

I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

Based on what? Our first round performances the last two seasons when we were favourites?

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us, especially in round 1.

Silly comment.

Okay, how's this
They haven't beaten us for seven years - and rarely in nine (when we had deep injury lists)
+Based on their terrible record at Etihad.
+Based on the unlikelyhood of Dawes, Clarke and Hogan playing round 1 and being underdone if they do.

...

You have missed the point. Maybe a lesson from the last two years is that we shouldn't just expect to win games based on past . Most people on here thought we would easily account for Port and GC.

Probability doesn't work that way either.

[SaintPav]

I expect us to get over them quite easily round 1.

Based on what? Our first round performances the last two seasons when we were favourites?

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us, especially in round 1.

Silly comment.

The Silly comment is basing result around rd 1 from previous years. That makes no sense at all.
Expectations are personal things, so to say expecting to beat Melbourne, isnt that silly.
There are a few months to go, lets see how the teams prepare and line up at that point.

P.S I expect to beat them based on the alignment of the planets and the fact that Melbourne are crap

Sorry to break the news to you but we're not much chop either.

The point was on expectation of victory in round 1 as in previous years. There are always plenty of upsets in round one for various reasons, not that a loss in round 1 would be considered a major upset given were we finished last year.

[Zed]

dreamers

[samuraisaint]

[
Okay, how's this
They haven't beaten us for seven years - and rarely in nine (when we had deep injury lists)
+Based on their terrible record at Etihad.
+Based on the unlikelyhood of Dawes, Clarke and Hogan playing round 1 and being underdone if they do.

...
[/quote]

You have missed the point. Maybe a lesson from the last two years is that we shouldn't just expect to win games based on past . Most people on here thought we would easily account for Port and GC.

Probability doesn't work that way either.[/quote]
We're not playing intertstate round one this year. I reckon we are a five goal better side at Etihad than we are interstate - and it is a fair bet that statistics would support this. I might even suggest that we are a better than five goal difference playing at home.
As for your comment about Port Adelaide - Why would most people on here think we would account easily for Port anywhere, but especially in Adelaide?!? We have hardly beaten them at all anywhere since the nineties
Melbourne at Etihad are a very different proposition to Adelaide in Adelaide, Geelong at the MCG and a game interstate against any club with Garry Ablett in it. You are not comparing apples with apples.

[samuraisaint]

Even against Geelong there was some semblence of brinkmanship...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Brinkmanship means exactly what I think it means.
We had no choice but to roll the dice after losing all our key defenders including Roberton. We were always going to be on a hiding to nothing but at least the club had a go at attacking early before returning to damage control mode in order to attain best advantage. As opposed to melbourne, who are a rabble for much of the time.
Maybe you didn't understand the gist of what I was trying to say.

[kosifantutti]

Even against Geelong there was some semblence of brinkmanship...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

I don't know if you're right or not but I love a good Inigo Montoya quote.

[SaintPav]

[
Okay, how's this
They haven't beaten us for seven years - and rarely in nine (when we had deep injury lists)
+Based on their terrible record at Etihad.
+Based on the unlikelyhood of Dawes, Clarke and Hogan playing round 1 and being underdone if they do.

...

You have missed the point. Maybe a lesson from the last two years is that we shouldn't just expect to win games based on past . Most people on here thought we would easily account for Port and GC.

Probability doesn't work that way either.[/quote]
We're not playing intertstate round one this year. I reckon we are a five goal better side at Etihad than we are interstate - and it is a fair bet that statistics would support this. I might even suggest that we are a better than five goal difference playing at home.
As for your comment about Port Adelaide - Why would most people on here think we would account easily for Port anywhere, but especially in Adelaide?!? We have hardly beaten them at all anywhere since the nineties
Melbourne at Etihad are a very different proposition to Adelaide in Adelaide, Geelong at the MCG and a game interstate against any club with Garry Ablett in it. You are not comparing apples with apples.[/quote]

Ok, let play connect the dots... we dominated Port for a long time (and the GC) but we lost to them and that is my point with the Dees who we have smashed every year sine 2007.

There are usually upset results in round 1 (and the last round) as there is no reliable form guide.

I don't think any reasonable supporter on here is expecting us to just smash them. It's a bit too arrogant for my liking given where we're at.

[samuraisaint]

[
Okay, how's this
They haven't beaten us for seven years - and rarely in nine (when we had deep injury lists)
+Based on their terrible record at Etihad.
+Based on the unlikelyhood of Dawes, Clarke and Hogan playing round 1 and being underdone if they do.

...

You have missed the point. Maybe a lesson from the last two years is that we shouldn't just expect to win games based on past . Most people on here thought we would easily account for Port and GC.

Probability doesn't work that way either.

We're not playing intertstate round one this year. I reckon we are a five goal better side at Etihad than we are interstate - and it is a fair bet that statistics would support this. I might even suggest that we are a better than five goal difference playing at home.
As for your comment about Port Adelaide - Why would most people on here think we would account easily for Port anywhere, but especially in Adelaide?!? We have hardly beaten them at all anywhere since the nineties
Melbourne at Etihad are a very different proposition to Adelaide in Adelaide, Geelong at the MCG and a game interstate against any club with Garry Ablett in it. You are not comparing apples with apples.[/quote]


Ok, let play connect the dots... we dominated Port for a long time (and the GC) but we lost to them and that is my point with the Dees who we have smashed every year sine 2007.

There are usually upset results in round 1 (and the last round) as there is no reliable form guide.

I don't think any reasonable supporter on here is expecting us to just smash them. It's a bit too arrogant for my liking given where we're at.[/quote]

We have never dominated Port or the GC for a long time. They haven't even been around for a long time.
I never said we would smash the Dees either. I think we will account for them comfortably though.

[samuraisaint]

Even against Geelong there was some semblence of brinkmanship...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

I don't know if you're right or not but I love a good Inigo Montoya quote.

Who?