Jolly!!??

[White Winmar]

How about Trent West from the pussies? He's been mentioned in various missives (I got that word from Tom Chadwick) as being trade bait. With all the competition for ruck spots at Geelong, being Blicavs, Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy etc. he has slipped in the order and may come cheaply. A much better all round choice than Jolly, I would think, who has recently looked well past it.

Has he though? Yes he got injured. Here's how West and Jolly compare stats-wise for last season

Jolly
9 games, averaging 11.8 disp, 4.4 marks, 0.4 goals, 3.6 tackles, 2.6 clearances, 23.2 hitouts

West
13 games averaging 9.8 disp, 1.8 marks, 0.4 goals, 0.9 tackles, 1.7 clearances, 21.4 hitouts

For mine, if Jolly proves in a medical that he is not shot, then he could well be a reasonable short term option.

On those numbers West is a spud ruckman who offers very little around the ground. No thanks.

I don't think either one is a spud. It's just one is rising 32 and is unlikely to get better, while the other still has the potential to play for several seasons and has a chance to improve further. Based on the stats, I wouldn't say West is a spud. Seems very little difference between them. The main difference is that Jolly is in decline, West might still offer a bit more.

[plugger66]

How about Trent West from the pussies? He's been mentioned in various missives (I got that word from Tom Chadwick) as being trade bait. With all the competition for ruck spots at Geelong, being Blicavs, Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy etc. he has slipped in the order and may come cheaply. A much better all round choice than Jolly, I would think, who has recently looked well past it.

Has he though? Yes he got injured. Here's how West and Jolly compare stats-wise for last season

Jolly
9 games, averaging 11.8 disp, 4.4 marks, 0.4 goals, 3.6 tackles, 2.6 clearances, 23.2 hitouts

West
13 games averaging 9.8 disp, 1.8 marks, 0.4 goals, 0.9 tackles, 1.7 clearances, 21.4 hitouts

For mine, if Jolly proves in a medical that he is not shot, then he could well be a reasonable short term option.

On those numbers West is a spud ruckman who offers very little around the ground. No thanks.

I don't think either one is a spud. It's just one is rising 32 and is unlikely to get better, while the other still has the potential to play for several seasons and has a chance to improve further. Based on the stats, I wouldn't say West is a spud. Seems very little difference between them. The main difference is that Jolly is in decline, West might still offer a bit more.

Wouldnt the point of getting another ruckman though be for the short term just to give a break to Hickey and Stanley when needed. Jolly has one or two years left at the most where as if West plays well enough he has 5 years left at least. he isnt going to just fill in for 5 years and if we are getting another ruckman surely its just to fill in otherwise why the hell would we get rid of ben. if I was running the trades I would bother with either but it seems they want a short term ruckman.

[White Winmar]

Probably have to agree with you plugs. I wouldn't take either of them at this point. Just making the point that if you are going to take one of them, and they both came at a similar cost, West seems to offer the better value. If he is surplus to needs after a year or two, you can always get rid of him.

[maverick]

Has he though? Yes he got injured. Here's how West and Jolly compare stats-wise for last season

Jolly
9 games, averaging 11.8 disp, 4.4 marks, 0.4 goals, 3.6 tackles, 2.6 clearances, 23.2 hitouts

West
13 games averaging 9.8 disp, 1.8 marks, 0.4 goals, 0.9 tackles, 1.7 clearances, 21.4 hitouts

For mine, if Jolly proves in a medical that he is not shot, then he could well be a reasonable short term option.

On those numbers West is a spud ruckman who offers very little around the ground. No thanks.

I don't think either one is a spud. It's just one is rising 32 and is unlikely to get better, while the other still has the potential to play for several seasons and has a chance to improve further. Based on the stats, I wouldn't say West is a spud. Seems very little difference between them. The main difference is that Jolly is in decline, West might still offer a bit more.

Wouldnt the point of getting another ruckman though be for the short term just to give a break to Hickey and Stanley when needed. Jolly has one or two years left at the most where as if West plays well enough he has 5 years left at least. he isnt going to just fill in for 5 years and if we are getting another ruckman surely its just to fill in otherwise why the hell would we get rid of ben. if I was running the trades I would bother with either but it seems they want a short term ruckman.

Glad you're not running the trades, you would have Gwilt at full back and Maister in the ruck
Agree though, the stop gap is for 1-2 seasons, Hickey should be good enough within 2 years to be no. 1 ruck every week.

[plugger66]

Jolly
9 games, averaging 11.8 disp, 4.4 marks, 0.4 goals, 3.6 tackles, 2.6 clearances, 23.2 hitouts

West
13 games averaging 9.8 disp, 1.8 marks, 0.4 goals, 0.9 tackles, 1.7 clearances, 21.4 hitouts

For mine, if Jolly proves in a medical that he is not shot, then he could well be a reasonable short term option.

On those numbers West is a spud ruckman who offers very little around the ground. No thanks.

I don't think either one is a spud. It's just one is rising 32 and is unlikely to get better, while the other still has the potential to play for several seasons and has a chance to improve further. Based on the stats, I wouldn't say West is a spud. Seems very little difference between them. The main difference is that Jolly is in decline, West might still offer a bit more.

Wouldnt the point of getting another ruckman though be for the short term just to give a break to Hickey and Stanley when needed. Jolly has one or two years left at the most where as if West plays well enough he has 5 years left at least. he isnt going to just fill in for 5 years and if we are getting another ruckman surely its just to fill in otherwise why the hell would we get rid of ben. if I was running the trades I would bother with either but it seems they want a short term ruckman.

Glad you're not running the trades, you would have Gwilt at full back and Maister in the ruck
Agree though, the stop gap is for 1-2 seasons, Hickey should be good enough within 2 years to be no. 1 ruck every week.[/quote]


If I was running the trades id have Bruce at FB and ben in the ruck. Dont see anything wrong with that. Id also not have Maister on the list as well as TDL and probably Dunnel. Hopefully all 3 prove me wrong.

[maverick]

Wouldnt the point of getting another ruckman though be for the short term just to give a break to Hickey and Stanley when needed. Jolly has one or two years left at the most where as if West plays well enough he has 5 years left at least. he isnt going to just fill in for 5 years and if we are getting another ruckman surely its just to fill in otherwise why the hell would we get rid of ben. if I was running the trades I would bother with either but it seems they want a short term ruckman.

Glad you're not running the trades, you would have Gwilt at full back and Maister in the ruck
Agree though, the stop gap is for 1-2 seasons, Hickey should be good enough within 2 years to be no. 1 ruck every week.

If I was running the trades id have Bruce at FB and ben in the ruck. Dont see anything wrong with that. Id also not have Maister on the list as well as TDL and probably Dunnel. Hopefully all 3 prove me wrong.

What would you trade to get Bruce, as we don't have pick 17 in that scenario and where would you play Hickey and Stanley?

[plugger66]

Glad you're not running the trades, you would have Gwilt at full back and Maister in the ruck
Agree though, the stop gap is for 1-2 seasons, Hickey should be good enough within 2 years to be no. 1 ruck every week.

If I was running the trades id have Bruce at FB and ben in the ruck. Dont see anything wrong with that. Id also not have Maister on the list as well as TDL and probably Dunnel. Hopefully all 3 prove me wrong.

What would you trade to get Bruce, as we don't have pick 17 in that scenario and where would you play Hickey and Stanley?

I would just get Bruce in the pre season draft if GWS wouldnt do a fair trade. And i would play Hickey and ben the same as this year. I think Hickey can evetually go ok forward but if we were talking 2 years ago I wouldnt have had Hickey at the club.

[Richter]

I don't think either one is a spud. It's just one is rising 32 and is unlikely to get better, while the other still has the potential to play for several seasons and has a chance to improve further. Based on the stats, I wouldn't say West is a spud. Seems very little difference between them. The main difference is that Jolly is in decline, West might still offer a bit more.

Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh calling West a spud....

Based on Footywire ranking by average hitouts per game:

Jolly is at 17, West is at 24, McEvoy is at 29
(http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... t=LA&st=HO)

On the current AFL rankings site (more rounding weighting given to overall contribution):

McEvoy is 5th, Jolly is 15th, West is 18th
(http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... ition/ruck)

[oldie60]

Trent West has gone the same way as Big Boy the only difference is that Geelong had options and he has dropped to number three or four in line which shows he has not improved. Ben is a good honest footballer who will probably get better as he gets older but how long do we wait for that to happen. I think getting Jolly for bugger all is a good move as over the next season or so none of our rucks have anyone to take the heat off them. I've always liked Jolly because of his footy smarts he knows when and where to run and can usually get a goal at critical stages of the game. It won't hurt the young blokes to someone who can show them while they play.The aftermath is we got Savage who can run and use the ball well and a ruckman that wins a fair share of the hitouts now not in 3 or 4 years time.

[maverick]

If I was running the trades id have Bruce at FB and ben in the ruck. Dont see anything wrong with that. Id also not have Maister on the list as well as TDL and probably Dunnel. Hopefully all 3 prove me wrong.

What would you trade to get Bruce, as we don't have pick 17 in that scenario and where would you play Hickey and Stanley?

I would just get Bruce in the pre season draft if GWS wouldnt do a fair trade. And i would play Hickey and ben the same as this year. I think Hickey can evetually go ok forward but if we were talking 2 years ago I wouldnt have had Hickey at the club.

Don't think Bruce would get through to the PSD GWS could very well just draft him back, playing Hickey and Ben this year was poor, stunts development for both Rhys and Hickey.
I think the club worked out two years ago that Ben was most probably going to struggle for 1st ruck, it will be an interesting journey....

[plugger66]

What would you trade to get Bruce, as we don't have pick 17 in that scenario and where would you play Hickey and Stanley?

I would just get Bruce in the pre season draft if GWS wouldnt do a fair trade. And i would play Hickey and ben the same as this year. I think Hickey can evetually go ok forward but if we were talking 2 years ago I wouldnt have had Hickey at the club.

Don't think Bruce would get through to the PSD GWS could very well just draft him back, playing Hickey and Ben this year was poor, stunts development for both Rhys and Hickey.
I think the club worked out two years ago that Ben was most probably going to struggle for 1st ruck, it will be an interesting journey....

No club has ever drafted someone back. that wouldnt happen. melbourne could take him but his price maybe to much. we would just about certainly get him. Stanley just may not be good enough. i think we will find that out. ben is certainly good enough to be first ruck IMO and will end up a better than either Stanley or Hickey but again hope I am wrong. Hitouts are offically the most overated stat in footy again IMO. I actually sick of saying IMO because i think it is obvious its my opnion.

[saintsRrising]

While I agree that GWS would not draft back Bruce....

No club has ever drafted someone back. .

Blake
Gehrig
McQualter

Guess the club?

[lefty]

Why Jolly, of all people I hate... as I've said, if you're relying on an old player to "teach" Stanley and Hickey, what the hell is our "Ruck coach" doing exactly?

If anything, employee Jolly as a "2nd or 1st Ruck Coach" and go with a young ruckman.

If we're going to rebuilt with youth, then do it. Don't screw around.

[plugger66]

While I agree that GWS would not draft back Bruce....

No club has ever drafted someone back. .

Blake
Gehrig
McQualter

Guess the club?

I meant in the pre season draft when they have had a pick before the club the player wants to get to. We also got ferg back as well but none of those 4 wanted to leave our club.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

While I agree that GWS would not draft back Bruce....

No club has ever drafted someone back. .

Blake
Gehrig
McQualter

Guess the club?

seriously .....

blake was re-drafted back cause he was moved off the vets list
G-Train retired too early and wanted to go again
Mini was delisted so he could find a new home .. no one took him so we redrafted him due to the fact we were going to be paying him any way ....

no player has walked out on a club to be redrafted by that club

[evo]

No club has ever drafted someone back. that wouldnt happen. melbourne could take him but his price maybe to much. we would just about certainly get him. Stanley just may not be good enough. i think we will find that out. ben is certainly good enough to be first ruck IMO and will end up a better than either Stanley or Hickey but again hope I am wrong. Hitouts are offically the most overated stat in footy again IMO. I actually sick of saying IMO because i think it is obvious its my opnion.

Fortunately it does not appear to be the footy departments opinion.

[plugger66]

No club has ever drafted someone back. that wouldnt happen. melbourne could take him but his price maybe to much. we would just about certainly get him. Stanley just may not be good enough. i think we will find that out. ben is certainly good enough to be first ruck IMO and will end up a better than either Stanley or Hickey but again hope I am wrong. Hitouts are offically the most overated stat in footy again IMO. I actually sick of saying IMO because i think it is obvious its my opnion.

Fortunately it does not appear to be the footy departments opinion.

In case you hadnt realise its only fortunate in a few years time.

[Playon]

No club has ever drafted someone back. that wouldnt happen. melbourne could take him but his price maybe to much. we would just about certainly get him. Stanley just may not be good enough. i think we will find that out. ben is certainly good enough to be first ruck IMO and will end up a better than either Stanley or Hickey but again hope I am wrong. Hitouts are offically the most overated stat in footy again IMO. I actually sick of saying IMO because i think it is obvious its my opnion.

So we could of played Millne in the ruck?

[dragit]

While I agree that GWS would not draft back Bruce....

No club has ever drafted someone back. .

Blake
Gehrig
McQualter

Guess the club?

seriously .....

blake was re-drafted back cause he was moved off the vets list
G-Train retired too early and wanted to go again
Mini was delisted so he could find a new home .. no one took him so we redrafted him due to the fact we were going to be paying him any way ....

no player has walked out on a club to be redrafted by that club

Trent Croad & Chris Tarrant both did the boomerang.

[plugger66]

No club has ever drafted someone back. that wouldnt happen. melbourne could take him but his price maybe to much. we would just about certainly get him. Stanley just may not be good enough. i think we will find that out. ben is certainly good enough to be first ruck IMO and will end up a better than either Stanley or Hickey but again hope I am wrong. Hitouts are offically the most overated stat in footy again IMO. I actually sick of saying IMO because i think it is obvious its my opnion.

So we could of played Millne in the ruck?

How could you that? The player and the side would be smashed. Strangely ruckmen normally ruck against other ruckmen but if they rucked against midgets then hitouts would be most important stat.

[Playon]

So you mean offering a contest is important, and hit outs to advantage is even more important?

I'd be interested in seeing Bens stats on hit outs to advantage compared to his opponent.

[older saint]

Funny last year we were looking for a back up ruckman this year we trade our No.1 ruck?

Strange logic

[saint6709]

Jolly could act as a back up for injury and as a ruck coach for the likes of Holmes - not the worst idea I have ever heard if comes without trading anything ..Is he signed yet -? Is Trent West available on the same terms ?? . I would rather him in the same roll - Can play I think

[cwrcyn]

Jolly has a crook knee that saw him struggle to get on the park in his last 18 months at Collingwood. Even on a cheap short term contract there's a fair amount of risk. There aren't many options left, though. Maybe Longer should be seriously looked at.

[plugger66]

Jolly has a crook knee that saw him struggle to get on the park in his last 18 months at Collingwood. Even on a cheap short term contract there's a fair amount of risk. There aren't many options left, though. Maybe Longer should be seriously looked at.

Didnt we get rid of ben so we only had one real ruckman though so why gt another really young one in?