The Club Is Right For Once

[plugger66]

I wouldn't have a clue whether he's the right person for the job or not. We have an ordinary list in rebuild mode. He inherited an ordinary list. Bloody hard to get young kids who aren't world beaters to win AFL games of footy. Them's the facts whether we like it or not. Our draft picks have been considerably low in the past few years, and to be honest, any low pick we've had we've pretty much wasted on the likes of Lovett (dumbest move ever. Ever!)

So can Watters coach? He's into his 3rd year next year, but I'm still not sure. I know he's made mistakes, and I know he's done the right thing by the club by blooding as many players as possible. I can't see the point of turning over another coach at this point in time, even if we do have another year like this year. I don't see why we need to extend his contract (who would be headhunting him?) but I'd like to see him get a 2 year extension at the end of the year.

If thats the case then why not give it now? What could he do to not get the extention? I reckon the club will have many things they are looking at oncluding wins but that wont be the main thing or he is a dead man walking. Working well with his coaches and pelchan will also be high on the list.

[Teflon]

Is extend him to finish the rebuild then bring Lyon back to "polish us up"

I'm kidding...you know that don't you?

[fugazi]

Is extend him to finish the rebuild then bring Lyon back to "polish us up"

I'm kidding...you know that don't you?

The same thought occured to me today.

Watters looks like being the sacrificial lamb...no wonder he's uncomfortable. he'll end his first 3 years as senior coach with a 20% winning ratio.

[lefty]

What happened to all those people on here who said SW had to have his contract extended. There seemed to be many more in that camp and now i cant hardly see a post on it. Stand your ground. if you thought that then you are allowed to say you think the club is wrong. To me it was the only decision but thats easy in hindsight. I doubt he will be coaching in 2015 unless the clubn surprise most of us.

Please, why even post a ridiculous statement.

Pelican has stated he's got a "proven formula for success" plan, which is basically trading out the older aged stars for high draft picks to get the "rebuild" moving faster.

Pelican has already stated "In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again" .... which means 2014 we may finish in the same position.

If that is the prediction by the club, then how can the club expect Watters to finish higher up on the ladder? He's loosing good senior players for un-experienced youngsters which the club needs. His job is basically to ensure we are competitive and that the players grow better to become a strong side.

I don't know what you expect Watters to do. Even if you have your preferred coach, it won't change anything, as "time" is always required when developing youth, and instead of giving a rubbish opinion, perhaps get behind the coach and help us succeed.

If you replaced Watters in 2012 with Williams, we'd still be in the same position. The coach can only do so much, its up to the players.

Watters has done what everyone has been asking, play the youth, what did people expect would happen? He's very clam in the box, and says s*** as it is. I have no doubt Watters is the person to lead this club forward.

[Scollop]

Would the members be happier if SW had coached more wins and we'd finished between 9th and 12th? Seriously...what is so blatantly obvious as 'mistakes' from our coach.

He's been a fantastic performer in the media; he's done a great job promoting the club; he is selling the image of the St Kilda FC in a postive light and I believe that he is doing the best he can with the list he

The main discontent we keep hearing is that the senior players are feeling unloved. I reckon if Saints give SW a 2 year extension it helps create stability for the players who will potentially be part of the next team that contends. The other positive in SW favour is that...

We will be getting some damned fine early draft picks as we finished 3rd last and no one accused our club of tanking!! Surely that deserves some recognition

[gringo]

What happened to all those people on here who said SW had to have his contract extended. There seemed to be many more in that camp and now i cant hardly see a post on it. Stand your ground. if you thought that then you are allowed to say you think the club is wrong. To me it was the only decision but thats easy in hindsight. I doubt he will be coaching in 2015 unless the clubn surprise most of us.

Please, why even post a ridiculous statement.

Pelican has stated he's got a "proven formula for success" plan, which is basically trading out the older aged stars for high draft picks to get the "rebuild" moving faster.

Pelican has already stated "In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again" .... which means 2014 we may finish in the same position.

If that is the prediction by the club, then how can the club expect Watters to finish higher up on the ladder? He's loosing good senior players for un-experienced youngsters which the club needs. His job is basically to ensure we are competitive and that the players grow better to become a strong side.

I don't know what you expect Watters to do. Even if you have your preferred coach, it won't change anything, as "time" is always required when developing youth, and instead of giving a rubbish opinion, perhaps get behind the coach and help us succeed.

If you replaced Watters in 2012 with Williams, we'd still be in the same position. The coach can only do so much, its up to the players.

Watters has done what everyone has been asking, play the youth, what did people expect would happen? He's very clam in the box, and says s*** as it is. I have no doubt Watters is the person to lead this club forward.

I was one saying that they should make a show of faith and extend his contract for this very reason. It's looking messy and we have been forced to air our dirty laundry once again. It's a bad look and what possible KPI is he going to meet with the team where it is. Even if they are going to lance him give him one more to show they know where we are at.

If they have gone this far they are testing the waters and letting the fans know they are going to put him to the sword the moment someone they rate higher comes u.

i always said he is probably the rebuild coach and will be pushed aside when we are on the cusp. Only he might not even make it that far.

[Cairnsman]

Would the members be happier if SW had coached more wins and we'd finished between 9th and 12th? Seriously...what is so blatantly obvious as 'mistakes' from our coach.

He's been a fantastic performer in the media; he's done a great job promoting the club; he is selling the image of the St Kilda FC in a postive light and I believe that he is doing the best he can with the list he

The main discontent we keep hearing is that the senior players are feeling unloved. I reckon if Saints give SW a 2 year extension it helps create stability for the players who will potentially be part of the next team that contends. The other positive in SW favour is that...

We will be getting some damned fine early draft picks as we finished 3rd last and no one accused our club of tanking!! Surely that deserves some recognition

It's got a lot to with win/loss and peoples unrealistic expectation of where we should be on the ladder. Have a chat to most of the people that are the most disgruntled and you probably find that they tipped more than 5 wins in 2013.

[gringo]

Would the members be happier if SW had coached more wins and we'd finished between 9th and 12th? Seriously...what is so blatantly obvious as 'mistakes' from our coach.

He's been a fantastic performer in the media; he's done a great job promoting the club; he is selling the image of the St Kilda FC in a postive light and I believe that he is doing the best he can with the list he

The main discontent we keep hearing is that the senior players are feeling unloved. I reckon if Saints give SW a 2 year extension it helps create stability for the players who will potentially be part of the next team that contends. The other positive in SW favour is that...

We will be getting some damned fine early draft picks as we finished 3rd last and no one accused our club of tanking!! Surely that deserves some recognition

Exactly the old guys might be upset but they will only be happy when pandered to and played ahead of kids. Not what we need.

[gringo]

Would the members be happier if SW had coached more wins and we'd finished between 9th and 12th? Seriously...what is so blatantly obvious as 'mistakes' from our coach.

He's been a fantastic performer in the media; he's done a great job promoting the club; he is selling the image of the St Kilda FC in a postive light and I believe that he is doing the best he can with the list he

The main discontent we keep hearing is that the senior players are feeling unloved. I reckon if Saints give SW a 2 year extension it helps create stability for the players who will potentially be part of the next team that contends. The other positive in SW favour is that...

We will be getting some damned fine early draft picks as we finished 3rd last and no one accused our club of tanking!! Surely that deserves some recognition

It's got a lot to with win/loss and peoples unrealistic expectation of where we should be on the ladder. Have a chat to most of the people that are the most disgruntled and you probably find that they tipped more than 5 wins in 2013.

interesting that we are rated the 16th most talented list and the oldest list by champion data. That means we are probably over achieving since we were missing about 4 top line stars for large chunks of the season.

[dragit]

Is extend him to finish the rebuild then bring Lyon back to "polish us up"

I'm kidding...you know that don't you?

The same thought occured to me today.

Watters looks like being the sacrificial lamb...no wonder he's uncomfortable. he'll end his first 3 years as senior coach with a 20% winning ratio.

Be silly if he didn't see it coming when he took the job though…

The fast approaching cliff was pretty damn obvious.

[plugger66]

What happened to all those people on here who said SW had to have his contract extended. There seemed to be many more in that camp and now i cant hardly see a post on it. Stand your ground. if you thought that then you are allowed to say you think the club is wrong. To me it was the only decision but thats easy in hindsight. I doubt he will be coaching in 2015 unless the clubn surprise most of us.

Please, why even post a ridiculous statement.

Pelican has stated he's got a "proven formula for success" plan, which is basically trading out the older aged stars for high draft picks to get the "rebuild" moving faster.

Pelican has already stated "In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again" .... which means 2014 we may finish in the same position.

If that is the prediction by the club, then how can the club expect Watters to finish higher up on the ladder? He's loosing good senior players for un-experienced youngsters which the club needs. His job is basically to ensure we are competitive and that the players grow better to become a strong side.

I don't know what you expect Watters to do. Even if you have your preferred coach, it won't change anything, as "time" is always required when developing youth, and instead of giving a rubbish opinion, perhaps get behind the coach and help us succeed.

If you replaced Watters in 2012 with Williams, we'd still be in the same position. The coach can only do so much, its up to the players.

Watters has done what everyone has been asking, play the youth, what did people expect would happen? He's very clam in the box, and says s*** as it is. I have no doubt Watters is the person to lead this club forward.

Thanks for all those words. i wont waste my time with that many words. I will ask just one simple question. Why didnt the club re sign SW when the coach requested an extention. Have no idea why you mentioned pelchan a few times either. This is about our coach. They arent a package.

[Dr Spaceman]

Well this Saints supporter never thought we'd make the Finals in 2013. So as we sit here on 15th October, with our most recent game a distant memory, this Saints supporter is rapt to be pondering pick #3 in three upcoming Draft, rather than say pick #9 or #10.

Yes it's great to have wins, especially if you're the type of member who enjoys attending most games.

But until we're in a position to play into September I'm quite happy to "underachieve" on the track and reap a little bit extra at the yearling sales.

[Cairnsman]

I think the club have to reach the supporter base that think we are going to win more than 3-5 games in 2015. Not sure what the message is but surely a smart PR guru can come up with something. Blind Freddy can see that the even the Ghost of Norm Smith in cahoots with Leigh Mathews and Mick Malthouse wont make a brass razzoos difference in 2015.

[#gosaintas]

I wish we had given Watters a contract extension. Totally looking from the outside, I like Watters. I like his calm approach. He is a likable guy. The kids look like they like him too. I couldn't give a stuff if the senior players are pissed off. Maybe they are pissed off because they played crap in a couple of GF's. Maybe they are pissed off that they stuffed up in 09 with poor goal kicking and their time is past. Who cares? They are history. They have been well paid and nearly got the prize. Those with any class will hang around and help the club and those without will unsettle the club and undermine the rebuild.

Maybe he is not the coach for a tilt at a flag and maybe he is. I reckon if you have the cattle anybody can coach. Nobody can tell me that Sheedy or Choco Williams has a clue about anything.
The new Pres and whoever is the new CEO needs to set the agenda for the club. We are now the club on the Peninsula. I hope we somehow get a boutique stadium down there somewhere. Play the crap sides there. Own it and embrace it. The Geelong model is perfect for us. New players would love living down there. A pad at Mt Martha, Mt Eliza, Red Hill, Sorrento, Portsea....what's not to love.

[dragit]

I think the club have to reach the supporter base that think we are going to win more than 3-5 games in 2015. Not sure what the message is but surely a smart PR guru can come up with something. Blind Freddy can see that the even the Ghost of Norm Smith in cahoots with Leigh Mathews and Mick Malthouse wont make a brass razzoos difference in 2015.

Pelchen already quoted above

"In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again"

In other words, we expect to have the # 1 pick next year.

[The OtherThommo]

What happened to all those people on here who said SW had to have his contract extended. There seemed to be many more in that camp and now i cant hardly see a post on it. Stand your ground. if you thought that then you are allowed to say you think the club is wrong. To me it was the only decision but thats easy in hindsight. I doubt he will be coaching in 2015 unless the clubn surprise most of us.

Please, why even post a ridiculous statement.

Pelican has stated he's got a "proven formula for success" plan, which is basically trading out the older aged stars for high draft picks to get the "rebuild" moving faster.

Pelican has already stated "In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again" .... which means 2014 we may finish in the same position.

If that is the prediction by the club, then how can the club expect Watters to finish higher up on the ladder? He's loosing good senior players for un-experienced youngsters which the club needs. His job is basically to ensure we are competitive and that the players grow better to become a strong side.

I don't know what you expect Watters to do. Even if you have your preferred coach, it won't change anything, as "time" is always required when developing youth, and instead of giving a rubbish opinion, perhaps get behind the coach and help us succeed.

If you replaced Watters in 2012 with Williams, we'd still be in the same position. The coach can only do so much, its up to the players.

Watters has done what everyone has been asking, play the youth, what did people expect would happen? He's very clam in the box, and says s*** as it is. I have no doubt Watters is the person to lead this club forward.

Thanks for all those words. i wont waste my time with that many words. I will ask just one simple question. Why didnt the club re sign SW when the coach requested an extention. Have no idea why you mentioned pelchan a few times either. This is about our coach. They arent a package.

And I think you need to go back and read what Summers said which, odd as it may seem to some, made perfect sense. As for your demand that those who said Watters would get an extension should leap to club condemnation for not doing so, or accept, effectively, the Fine line, well, you really are just channeling for the sake of it. What's more, it continues to be an ordinary look. You need to understand your reputation precedes you and not from the the institution covered in this place.

Further, protesting too much probably won't help.

[lefty]

Thanks for all those words. i wont waste my time with that many words. I will ask just one simple question. Why didnt the club re sign SW when the coach requested an extention. Have no idea why you mentioned pelchan a few times either. This is about our coach. They arent a package.

Your view doesn't make any sense.

Pelican wants to rebuild the list and lose senior players for trades/youth, yet you want Watters gone because we're down the bottom of the ladder.

Pelican is going one direction, which dictates, in part, what type of success the coach can achieve given he basically doesn't seem to have the final say in who is staying or going, only his view.

If the club think that a rebuild only takes one year, then they're clearly wrong. We need another year or two of high draft picks, which means finishing down the bottom again.

Watters job is to ensure we're competitive and to get the young players to become good solid core players. It shouldn't be judged on a win-loss ratio.

Until such time (2 or so years) as to when the rebuild it "complete", to simply get rid of Watters during a rebuild, is an idiotic move.

*And yes, I know his name is not Pelican, before you state it.

[plugger66]

Please, why even post a ridiculous statement.

Pelican has stated he's got a "proven formula for success" plan, which is basically trading out the older aged stars for high draft picks to get the "rebuild" moving faster.

Pelican has already stated "In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again" .... which means 2014 we may finish in the same position.

If that is the prediction by the club, then how can the club expect Watters to finish higher up on the ladder? He's loosing good senior players for un-experienced youngsters which the club needs. His job is basically to ensure we are competitive and that the players grow better to become a strong side.

I don't know what you expect Watters to do. Even if you have your preferred coach, it won't change anything, as "time" is always required when developing youth, and instead of giving a rubbish opinion, perhaps get behind the coach and help us succeed.

If you replaced Watters in 2012 with Williams, we'd still be in the same position. The coach can only do so much, its up to the players.

Watters has done what everyone has been asking, play the youth, what did people expect would happen? He's very clam in the box, and says s*** as it is. I have no doubt Watters is the person to lead this club forward.

Thanks for all those words. i wont waste my time with that many words. I will ask just one simple question. Why didnt the club re sign SW when the coach requested an extention. Have no idea why you mentioned pelchan a few times either. This is about our coach. They arent a package.

And I think you need to go back and read what Summers said which, odd as it may seem to some, made perfect sense. As for your demand that those who said Watters would get an extension should leap to club condemnation for not doing so, or accept, effectively, the Fine line, well, you really are just channeling for the sake of it. What's more, it continues to be an ordinary look. You need to understand your reputation precedes you and not from the the institution covered in this place.

Further, protesting too much probably won't help.

My reputation. Do people actually discuss others behind their back or do you mean on here. if its from what I read on here well I couldnt give a stuff. The people on here whose opinions I rate actually dont mind most of my posts. What other think, I couldnt give a rats. And if others discuss me elsewhere then those people have some serious issues. Thanks for advise though. I will make more of an effort.

[Cairnsman]

Please, why even post a ridiculous statement.

Pelican has stated he's got a "proven formula for success" plan, which is basically trading out the older aged stars for high draft picks to get the "rebuild" moving faster.

Pelican has already stated "In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again" .... which means 2014 we may finish in the same position.

If that is the prediction by the club, then how can the club expect Watters to finish higher up on the ladder? He's loosing good senior players for un-experienced youngsters which the club needs. His job is basically to ensure we are competitive and that the players grow better to become a strong side.

I don't know what you expect Watters to do. Even if you have your preferred coach, it won't change anything, as "time" is always required when developing youth, and instead of giving a rubbish opinion, perhaps get behind the coach and help us succeed.

If you replaced Watters in 2012 with Williams, we'd still be in the same position. The coach can only do so much, its up to the players.

Watters has done what everyone has been asking, play the youth, what did people expect would happen? He's very clam in the box, and says s*** as it is. I have no doubt Watters is the person to lead this club forward.

Thanks for all those words. i wont waste my time with that many words. I will ask just one simple question. Why didnt the club re sign SW when the coach requested an extention. Have no idea why you mentioned pelchan a few times either. This is about our coach. They arent a package.

And I think you need to go back and read what Summers said which, odd as it may seem to some, made perfect sense. As for your demand that those who said Watters would get an extension should leap to club condemnation for not doing so, or accept, effectively, the Fine line, well, you really are just channeling for the sake of it. What's more, it continues to be an ordinary look. You need to understand your reputation precedes you and not from the the institution covered in this place.

Further, protesting too much probably won't help.

Amen!

[saintspremiers]

I think the club have to reach the supporter base that think we are going to win more than 3-5 games in 2015. Not sure what the message is but surely a smart PR guru can come up with something. Blind Freddy can see that the even the Ghost of Norm Smith in cahoots with Leigh Mathews and Mick Malthouse wont make a brass razzoos difference in 2015.

Pelchen already quoted above

"In closing, may I say that although we anticipate 2014 will present similar challenges as this year, we remain committed to the task of making the difficult decisions to make us great again"

In other words, we expect to have the # 1 pick next year.

Let's hope so.

[plugger66]

Thanks for all those words. i wont waste my time with that many words. I will ask just one simple question. Why didnt the club re sign SW when the coach requested an extention. Have no idea why you mentioned pelchan a few times either. This is about our coach. They arent a package.

Your view doesn't make any sense.

Pelican wants to rebuild the list and lose senior players for trades/youth, yet you want Watters gone because we're down the bottom of the ladder.

Pelican is going one direction, which dictates, in part, what type of success the coach can achieve given he basically doesn't seem to have the final say in who is staying or going, only his view.

If the club think that a rebuild only takes one year, then they're clearly wrong. We need another year or two of high draft picks, which means finishing down the bottom again.

Watters job is to ensure we're competitive and to get the young players to become good solid core players. It shouldn't be judged on a win-loss ratio.

Until such time (2 or so years) as to when the rebuild it "complete", to simply get rid of Watters during a rebuild, is an idiotic move.

*And yes, I know his name is not Pelican, before you state it.

Please dont make things up. i have never said once that I want SW gone. i must have said at least 20 times that it is to early to tell and i also didnt want his contract extended until at least midway next season. Nothing has changed. And i doubt the club think the rebuild will take only another year. they couldnt be that stupid. And i have also said I dont just go by win loss ratio when discussing SW and I would be pretty sure again the club isnt that stupid. Surely i am allowed an opinion that i doubt he will coach in 2015 especially when I gave a rider that unless the club surprises most. Can I ask you why you think SW wasnt give an extention that he requested as like nearly all of us think we probably wont be much better next year?

[lefty]

Please dont make things up. i have never said once that I want SW gone. i must have said at least 20 times that it is to early to tell and i also didnt want his contract extended until at least midway next season. Nothing has changed. And i doubt the club think the rebuild will take only another year. they couldnt be that stupid. And i have also said I dont just go by win loss ratio when discussing SW and I would be pretty sure again the club isnt that stupid. Surely i am allowed an opinion that i doubt he will coach in 2015 especially when I gave a rider that unless the club surprises most. Can I ask you why you think SW wasnt give an extention that he requested as like nearly all of us think we probably wont be much better next year?

We'll I have mis-read between the lines into what you were stating. You are entitled to your view and opinion, no problems, and I'm glad you're not simply looking at the win-loss ratio.

I just don't see what's the point of waiting for a mid-season contract review, all it will do in my opinion is further rumors and speculations, when imo what we need during these times is a solid foundation and a clear forward path, including the backing of a coach, the backing of the junior players, and the backing from the supporters.

Why SW wasn't given an extension, I do not know. For an outside point of view, I cannot see what he has done wrong to not be given one. Without knowing the exact KPIs set, all I'd be doing is speculating and causing more rumors.

I just cannot think SW would be under some sort of stress next year thinking about his future whilst the club may be similarly placed position next year. I'd rather the coach got the commitment and backing of the board behind him to make sure we progress forward as a club, binded together.

[The OtherThommo]

And I think you need to go back and read what Summers said which, odd as it may seem to some, made perfect sense. As for your demand that those who said Watters would get an extension should leap to club condemnation for not doing so, or accept, effectively, the Fine line, well, you really are just channeling for the sake of it. What's more, it continues to be an ordinary look. You need to understand your reputation precedes you and not from the the institution covered in this place.

Further, protesting too much probably won't help.[/quote]

My reputation. Do people actually discuss others behind their back or do you mean on here. if its from what I read on here well I couldnt give a stuff. The people on here whose opinions I rate actually dont mind most of my posts. What other think, I couldnt give a rats. And if others discuss me elsewhere then those people have some serious issues. Thanks for advise though. I will make more of an effort.[/quote]

Sentence by sentence;
1. Yep
2. Always, just to varying degrees, with more or less supporting testimony and reason. I mean all over the joint, but on here I reckon your frequent early resort to call so many liars (when most have merely tried to unscramble your tortured constructions) may leave the odd sod a little shy of fully gruntled.
3. I would never have guessed if I hadn't been told of your consistency of attitude, wherever you go.
4. Nebulous rhetoric, but refer to the latter part of 2. above.
5. Apparently.
6. Most people have issues, some more serious than others. Reflection may help here.
7. No problem, as always happy to help, and it's free.
8. I very much doubt it.

[plugger66]

And I think you need to go back and read what Summers said which, odd as it may seem to some, made perfect sense. As for your demand that those who said Watters would get an extension should leap to club condemnation for not doing so, or accept, effectively, the Fine line, well, you really are just channeling for the sake of it. What's more, it continues to be an ordinary look. You need to understand your reputation precedes you and not from the the institution covered in this place.

Further, protesting too much probably won't help.

My reputation. Do people actually discuss others behind their back or do you mean on here. if its from what I read on here well I couldnt give a stuff. The people on here whose opinions I rate actually dont mind most of my posts. What other think, I couldnt give a rats. And if others discuss me elsewhere then those people have some serious issues. Thanks for advise though. I will make more of an effort.[/quote]

Sentence by sentence;
1. Yep
2. Always, just to varying degrees, with more or less supporting testimony and reason. I mean all over the joint, but on here I reckon your frequent early resort to call so many liars (when most have merely tried to unscramble your tortured constructions) may leave the odd sod a little shy of fully gruntled.
3. I would never have guessed if I hadn't been told of your consistency of attitude, wherever you go.
4. Nebulous rhetoric, but refer to the latter part of 2. above.
5. Apparently.
6. Most people have issues, some more serious than others. Reflection may help here.
7. No problem, as always happy to help, and it's free.
8. I very much doubt it.[/quote]


Well number 3 is clearly a lie. Yes i said lie. You have no idea at all about consistancy of attitude wherever i go. If you did know something even slightly about me you would realise that you are talking crap. You lying on that point will impress the few who havent got the brains to think on their own. You will see who they are when they respond. Its really sad that anyone would discuss others on here outside this place. I feel a little pity for them but not to much even though they obviously need all the help they can get. Now please stop pretending you know anything about me outside this place. Another I find sad is you lying like that.

Now please get back on topic like me and Lefty were until you interupted. And learn to quote a little better.

[Cairnsman]

The drunk tradie Versus the Lawyer...this should be good...can someone pass me the popcorn