Official Trade Rumours thread (all in here please)

[Zed]

If we keep getting players from other clubs we are more likely to continue to get ordinary players. delaney is 24 years of age and still hasnt made it. I want to have 3 ot 4 picks in the draft so they we may fluke a Sam Fisher and yes of course we could get a Howard but we arent going to improve just getting players from other sides all the time.

Exactly. The difference between us and say Hawthorn or the Swans is they target guys who are regular AFL players and not fringe or backup players. Bruce is still young so potentially has a fair bit of upside. Delaney is a fringe 24 year old. Im not averse to getting both but should be looking to get and keep as many draft picks as possible in the top 20.

[sainter#4]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kil ... 6735645562

Finally some sense prevails.

Ether cough up something decent north...or PI$$ OFF

also we wont be trading pick 21 for bruce. Think its too much to pay for him.

[Kickit]

If we keep getting players from other clubs we are more likely to continue to get ordinary players. delaney is 24 years of age and still hasnt made it. I want to have 3 ot 4 picks in the draft so they we may fluke a Sam Fisher and yes of course we could get a Howard but we arent going to improve just getting players from other sides all the time.

Exactly. The difference between us and say Hawthorn or the Swans is they target guys who are regular AFL players and not fringe or backup players. Bruce is still young so potentially has a fair bit of upside. Delaney is a fringe 24 year old. Im not averse to getting both but should be looking to get and keep as many draft picks as possible in the top 20.

I do see a full back as a special role though. We need to have one. It doesn't help if we have ( for example ) Dylan Roberton playing full back and every other player in the backline playing on a taller opponent.
Even if we don't expect to win next season we still need a full back so that the other players can learn their roles.

[Spinner]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kil ... 6735645562

Finally some sense prevails.

Ether cough up something decent north...or PI$$ OFF

also we wont be trading pick 21 for bruce. Think its too much to pay for him.

That's what I want to hear.

North won't cough up so keep Dal. North also drove a hard bargain last year if I remember with Port.

And 21 does seem high for Bruce.

[sainter#4]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kil ... 6735645562

Finally some sense prevails.

Ether cough up something decent north...or PI$$ OFF

also we wont be trading pick 21 for bruce. Think its too much to pay for him.

That's what I want to hear.

North won't cough up so keep Dal. North also drove a hard bargain last year if I remember with Port.

And 21 does seem high for Bruce.

I rate north list wise and i see the "potential acquisition" Of Dal as something that will have them in top 4 contention.I just don't understand there reluctance to attain an A level player. Hawthorn 1 year after there 08' flag parted with pick 9 and williams in the 4 club trade to acquire burgoyne who was on one leg at that point.

that move has more then paid its way since then for them and this has similar potential for north. They could easily give up a kid that they value but wont blossom for a few years down the track and try make hay whilst it shines and petrie and harvey are there.

[suss]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kil ... 6735645562

Finally some sense prevails.

Ether cough up something decent north...or PI$$ OFF

also we wont be trading pick 21 for bruce. Think its too much to pay for him.

That's what I want to hear.

North won't cough up so keep Dal. North also drove a hard bargain last year if I remember with Port.

And 21 does seem high for Bruce.

That gives me comfort too. Glad we're being tough but fair. I like the respectful attitude to NDS too.

[saint6709]

Last year not a lot happened after the initial flurry of excitement of Tom lee - it looked like nothing much would happen and nothing much did. I had faith in the club that they would get some deals done and apart from Hickey nothing really did - I for one hope Jason Holmes (like Lee pretty well first cab of the rank)is not the main thing to happen this year

[SuperDuper]

I dont understand the sticking point with Dal. FA will most likely get us a higher pick than 26... isn't band 3 mid second round? Meaning 22ish?

Are we demanding they offer him a longer contract to ensure band 2/3??? Maybe they are not offering a long enough contract?

It seems FA is the best for both teams... and they give us Delaney for a late, late pick

what is the problem if it is not length/size of the contract on offer?

[SaintSimmo]

On mids we don't have a lack of them just quality ones.

We are only going to get 1 top ten pick unless a miracle happens so we have
Ross- potential very good player
Newnes- touted as a mid next year and potential very good player
Murdoch
Wright
Saunders
Minchington -could have runs in the middle
Curren
Lenny
Montagna
and Milera, TDL etc could all be developed.

I'm not sure someone at pick 60 is going to dislodge any of those guys.

How I see our current midfield situation:

1st Team Starting Mids: Steven, Lenny, Montagna, (Dal), Armitage

1st Team Rotation: Jones, Ray, Newnes, Curren, Wright,

Fringe: Saunders, Ross, Webster

We are obviously gonna bring a quality midfielder or two in the draft, I wouldn't be surprised if Pick 3 was in best 22 pretty quickly.

I feel like we really should be going extremely hard after one of GWS's young midfielders e.g. Taylor Adams, Dom Tyson or Dylan Shiel.

[fugazi]

Sick of being bent over by clubs. Pick 21 for Bruce way too much.

Delaney for a 4th round pick and we'll release Dal for FA (pick #22)

Sam Fisher (proven legend) for Bruce - straight swap

[howlinwolf]

What happens if we lose Fisher as well ?
So we'd gain Bruce and Delaney and lose Fisher. I can't see that as unreasonable.
Bruce would only be replacing Fisher and we we'd still be without the Full Back.

[Ross who?]

Good old Finey just said to look out for some news coming out in next 72hrs. (sounded like more than 1 piece). Also that the Fitness bloke will be getting the chop.

Do we believe this guy anymore........?

[howlinwolf]

Sick of being bent over by clubs. Pick 21 for Bruce way too much.

Delaney for a 4th round pick and we'll release Dal for FA (pick #22)

Sam Fisher (proven legend) for Bruce - straight swap

I like the sound of this
Leaves us with pick 3 + 21 for some quality mids.

[plugger66]

Good old Finey just said to look out for some news coming out in next 72hrs. (sounded like more than 1 piece). Also that the Fitness bloke will be getting the chop.

Do we believe this guy anymore........?

Well I do know he didnt rate the fitness guy at all so he will be very happy if he has gone. maybe Con is Finey.

[maverick]

I dont care who gets them next year. We are going to lose everyone of those games anyway. We would get closer if we had a midfield that could break even or beat their midfield. Why would we chase 2 FB's now and then next year there could be 2 better ones available but we cant gor for them because we have 2 already. We need one FB now and as many mids as we can possibly get. Delaney maybe big but when did that mean he will stop big forwards. If only it was that easy. get one this year and see what happens next year. I'll give you the tip we are in no hurry. We arent improving until we get a very good midfield.

Getting Delaney doesn't stop us getting a midfield, it helps.
It moves blokes like Webster, Gilbert, Dempster and other taller flankers into where they should play and develops us properly.
Playing people out of position win or loss only hurts development.

It stops us because there is another pick that we dont have. At this rate we will be using all our picks bar pick 3 on recycled players. I still dont get how getting delaney helps our midfield as the 3 you named cant play there.

Well based on your logic for drafting, we are better off getting Delaney and not Bruce, as Delaney will be a 4th rounder and Bruce a 2nd or 3rd. We need higher draft picks for better mids.

I think we need to build balance in our list and stop playing young players particularly out of position and teach them a system.
Webster, Murdoch, Newnes, etc need to go through the midfield, not plug holes down back.
Getting smashed down back breaks the team down and hurts development, taking an insurance big key back while you develop a Bruce and maybe a draft pick or two makes sense to me.

If the list isn't big enough to accommodate this, get rid of the cloggers, even if you have to pay out contracts....
The cloggers are smalls that aren't mids, or mediums that aren't good enough....

[plugger66]

Getting Delaney doesn't stop us getting a midfield, it helps.
It moves blokes like Webster, Gilbert, Dempster and other taller flankers into where they should play and develops us properly.
Playing people out of position win or loss only hurts development.

It stops us because there is another pick that we dont have. At this rate we will be using all our picks bar pick 3 on recycled players. I still dont get how getting delaney helps our midfield as the 3 you named cant play there.

Well based on your logic for drafting, we are better off getting Delaney and not Bruce, as Delaney will be a 4th rounder and Bruce a 2nd or 3rd. We need higher draft picks for better mids.

I think we need to build balance in our list and stop playing young players particularly out of position and teach them a system.
Webster, Murdoch, Newnes, etc need to go through the midfield, not plug holes down back.
Getting smashed down back breaks the team down and hurts development, taking an insurance big key back while you develop a Bruce and maybe a draft pick or two makes sense to me.

If the list isn't big enough to accommodate this, get rid of the cloggers, even if you have to pay out contracts....
The cloggers are smalls that aren't mids, or mediums that aren't good enough....

[gringo]

I haven't looked up his stats and that is the only game I can remember watching him and thinking wow. But he's a very solid player in other games I have seen. Hawks aren't keen on losing him and he will walk into all teams best 22 and play competitive footy. We get a guy with 8 years of footy left.

On mids we don't have a lack of them just quality ones.

We are only going to get 1 top ten pick unless a miracle happens so we have
Ross- potential very good player
Newnes- touted as a mid next year and potential very good player
Murdoch
Wright
Saunders
Minchington -could have runs in the middle
Curren
Lenny
Montagna
and Milera, TDL etc could all be developed.

I'm not sure someone at pick 60 is going to dislodge any of those guys.

Lets be serious here. TDL and Milera arent mids and no point in mentioning them. Minchington may eventually be a mid but he isnt even on our list yet let alone run through the midfield. Saunders isnt ready for the midfield and neither does Murdoch look close. Wright maybe ready next year as may Newnes. We are so short of mids in numbers and quality. Pick 60 may not get it done but have 2 FB with no mids will definately not get it donme.

I forgot Armo too. But why is pick 26 and 44 going to be any more advanced than Murdoch or Saunders? If you said we should get savage and Maverick Weller then you would have a point but you seem to be saying don't bring in already developed players because the new guys we get straight from the draft will be ahead of them?

[plugger66]

I haven't looked up his stats and that is the only game I can remember watching him and thinking wow. But he's a very solid player in other games I have seen. Hawks aren't keen on losing him and he will walk into all teams best 22 and play competitive footy. We get a guy with 8 years of footy left.

On mids we don't have a lack of them just quality ones.

We are only going to get 1 top ten pick unless a miracle happens so we have
Ross- potential very good player
Newnes- touted as a mid next year and potential very good player
Murdoch
Wright
Saunders
Minchington -could have runs in the middle
Curren
Lenny
Montagna
and Milera, TDL etc could all be developed.

I'm not sure someone at pick 60 is going to dislodge any of those guys.

Lets be serious here. TDL and Milera arent mids and no point in mentioning them. Minchington may eventually be a mid but he isnt even on our list yet let alone run through the midfield. Saunders isnt ready for the midfield and neither does Murdoch look close. Wright maybe ready next year as may Newnes. We are so short of mids in numbers and quality. Pick 60 may not get it done but have 2 FB with no mids will definately not get it donme.

I forgot Armo too. But why is pick 26 and 44 going to be any more advanced than Murdoch or Saunders? If you said we should get savage and Maverick Weller then you would have a point but you seem to be saying don't bring in already developed players because the new guys we get straight from the draft will be ahead of them?

Not once have I said that. I have said we could get the next Jack Steven or the next Howard with those picks but when you are down the bottom you have to take the punt. Getting used players from other clubs is safe if you are trying to win the flag but we are so far from it you need to take a punt. maybe being a gambler for the last 40 years makes me feel that way. Murdoch and Saunders arent real mids and I doubt they will be.

[gringo]

[
Lets be serious here. TDL and Milera arent mids and no point in mentioning them. Minchington may eventually be a mid but he isnt even on our list yet let alone run through the midfield. Saunders isnt ready for the midfield and neither does Murdoch look close. Wright maybe ready next year as may Newnes. We are so short of mids in numbers and quality. Pick 60 may not get it done but have 2 FB with no mids will definately not get it donme.

I forgot Armo too. But why is pick 26 and 44 going to be any more advanced than Murdoch or Saunders? If you said we should get savage and Maverick Weller then you would have a point but you seem to be saying don't bring in already developed players because the new guys we get straight from the draft will be ahead of them?

Not once have I said that. I have said we could get the next Jack Steven or the next Howard with those picks but when you are down the bottom you have to take the punt. Getting used players from other clubs is safe if you are trying to win the flag but we are so far from it you need to take a punt. maybe being a gambler for the last 40 years makes me feel that way. Murdoch and Saunders arent real mids and I doubt they will be.[/quote]


Sydney have used the method we are looking at where you follow up under utilised players who are still young. Bruce and Delaney are still young as is Savage. None are superstars but all have plenty of up side. I have seen Bruce play and liked what I saw, savage was really unlucky not to be a Premiership player. The Hawks are not off loading him- he's devestated that he missed out and now wants a club where he will play senior football.


when Sydney got Richards from the Bombers it looked retarded but he's been outstanding, Kennedy is a champion and there are plenty of others.

We are a little different to rebuilding most lists as we need a middle age bracket more than new kids. In 2 years we replaced 20+ players with mostly kids and we have several guys that are due to retire after next year or the year after. Then we get Melbourne armageddon. We need guys in the low 20s more than another 5 x 18 y.o. s.

[plugger66]

[
Lets be serious here. TDL and Milera arent mids and no point in mentioning them. Minchington may eventually be a mid but he isnt even on our list yet let alone run through the midfield. Saunders isnt ready for the midfield and neither does Murdoch look close. Wright maybe ready next year as may Newnes. We are so short of mids in numbers and quality. Pick 60 may not get it done but have 2 FB with no mids will definately not get it donme.

I forgot Armo too. But why is pick 26 and 44 going to be any more advanced than Murdoch or Saunders? If you said we should get savage and Maverick Weller then you would have a point but you seem to be saying don't bring in already developed players because the new guys we get straight from the draft will be ahead of them?

Not once have I said that. I have said we could get the next Jack Steven or the next Howard with those picks but when you are down the bottom you have to take the punt. Getting used players from other clubs is safe if you are trying to win the flag but we are so far from it you need to take a punt. maybe being a gambler for the last 40 years makes me feel that way. Murdoch and Saunders arent real mids and I doubt they will be.

Sydney have used the method we are looking at where you follow up under utilised players who are still young. Bruce and Delaney are still young as is Savage. None are superstars but all have plenty of up side. I have seen Bruce play and liked what I saw, savage was really unlucky not to be a Premiership player. The Hawks are not off loading him- he's devestated that he missed out and now wants a club where he will play senior football.

Dont compare us to Sydney. we are still on the way down. By the way Savage averages 13 possessions a game even in his fourth year. Im happy to get bruce not that is matters what any of us want. Savage isnt a mid or if he is he is a very poor mid. Delaney is just a very ordinary 24 year old footballer.


when Sydney got Richards from the Bombers it looked retarded but he's been outstanding, Kennedy is a champion and there are plenty of others.

We are a little different to rebuilding most lists as we need a middle age bracket more than new kids. In 2 years we replaced 20+ players with mostly kids and we have several guys that are due to retire after next year or the year after. Then we get Melbourne armageddon. We need guys in the low 20s more than another 5 x 18 y.o. s.[/quote]

[gringo]

Dont compare us to Sydney. we are still on the way down. By the way Savage averages 13 possessions a game even in his fourth year. Im happy to get bruce not that is matters what any of us want. Savage isnt a mid or if he is he is a very poor mid. Delaney is just a very ordinary 24 year old footballer.


when Sydney got Richards from the Bombers it looked retarded but he's been outstanding, Kennedy is a champion and there are plenty of others.

We are a little different to rebuilding most lists as we need a middle age bracket more than new kids. In 2 years we replaced 20+ players with mostly kids and we have several guys that are due to retire after next year or the year after. Then we get Melbourne armageddon. We need guys in the low 20s more than another 5 x 18 y.o. s.

[/quote]



Sydney grabbed Richards before they came back up. Savage has not had the opportunity to play mid filed that often as they have about 10 guys who run through the midfield. Most of his footy is played as a forward pocket, as 22 or so on their list he has been a sub plenty of times. His 30 possession 2 goal game against us would be some feat from a forward pocket. If Milne had those numbers my head would have popped.

[plugger66]

Dont compare us to Sydney. we are still on the way down. By the way Savage averages 13 possessions a game even in his fourth year. Im happy to get bruce not that is matters what any of us want. Savage isnt a mid or if he is he is a very poor mid. Delaney is just a very ordinary 24 year old footballer.


when Sydney got Richards from the Bombers it looked retarded but he's been outstanding, Kennedy is a champion and there are plenty of others.

We are a little different to rebuilding most lists as we need a middle age bracket more than new kids. In 2 years we replaced 20+ players with mostly kids and we have several guys that are due to retire after next year or the year after. Then we get Melbourne armageddon. We need guys in the low 20s more than another 5 x 18 y.o. s.

Sydney grabbed Richards before they came back up. Savage has not had the opportunity to play mid filed that often as they have about 10 guys who run through the midfield. Most of his footy is played as a forward pocket, as 22 or so on their list he has been a sub plenty of times. His 30 possession 2 goal game against us would be some feat from a forward pocket. If Milne had those numbers my head would have popped.[/quote]


He averaged just over half a goal a game this year. You cant have it both ways. he is either a poor forward or a poor mid.

[bergholt]

The difference between us and say Hawthorn or the Swans is they target guys who are regular AFL players and not fringe or backup players.

That's complete crap.

Gunston played 12 at the Crows the year before he went to Hawthorn. Guerra played 13 in his last year with us. Simpkin only played 4 at the Cats last year. Spangher didn't play at all last year and had only played 32 in four full years before that. Cheney played 2 games at Melbourne the year before heading over to the Hawks. Hale played 12 at the Roos the year before he went to Hawthorn. You could make an argument for Hale being a regular AFL player, but all the others were fringe players at best.

Sydney even more so. Tommy Walsh; we know his story. Andrejs Everitt had played 36 in four years before going up there. Josh Kennedy had played 13 in two years. McGlynn 44 in four years. Mitch Morton had had two clubs for a total of 70-odd games in seven full years. Mumford wasn't first choice at Geelong before he went north. Richards was averaging 10 games a season. Rhyce Shaw had been at Collingwood for eight years and only once played 20 games in a season.

Sure, say that these clubs were better than us at picking up recycled players. But it's just wrong to say that all their work was already done for them.

[Zed]

The difference between us and say Hawthorn or the Swans is they target guys who are regular AFL players and not fringe or backup players.

That's complete crap.

Gunston played 12 at the Crows the year before he went to Hawthorn. Guerra played 13 in his last year with us. Simpkin only played 4 at the Cats last year. Spangher didn't play at all last year and had only played 32 in four full years before that. Cheney played 2 games at Melbourne the year before heading over to the Hawks. Hale played 12 at the Roos the year before he went to Hawthorn. You could make an argument for Hale being a regular AFL player, but all the others were fringe players at best.

Sydney even more so. Tommy Walsh; we know his story. Andrejs Everitt had played 36 in four years before going up there. Josh Kennedy had played 13 in two years. McGlynn 44 in four years. Mitch Morton had had two clubs for a total of 70-odd games in seven full years. Mumford wasn't first choice at Geelong before he went north. Richards was averaging 10 games a season. Rhyce Shaw had been at Collingwood for eight years and only once played 20 games in a season.

Sure, say that these clubs were better than us at picking up recycled players. But it's just wrong to say that all their work was already done for them.

Seriously - complete crap ? Gunston was very highly regarded by the Crows and would have been a regular the following year had he not walked out on them. Guerra had attitude problems and pulled his finger out because he realised he was on his last chance, and arguably was a regular the year before. I will give you Spangher and Simpkin - both of them were true fringe players - and still are. Let's not forget Burgoyne, Lake, Gibson who were all regulars. The regulars they targeted are still regulars - the fringe players still fringe.

[maverick]

The difference between us and say Hawthorn or the Swans is they target guys who are regular AFL players and not fringe or backup players.

That's complete crap.

Gunston played 12 at the Crows the year before he went to Hawthorn. Guerra played 13 in his last year with us. Simpkin only played 4 at the Cats last year. Spangher didn't play at all last year and had only played 32 in four full years before that. Cheney played 2 games at Melbourne the year before heading over to the Hawks. Hale played 12 at the Roos the year before he went to Hawthorn. You could make an argument for Hale being a regular AFL player, but all the others were fringe players at best.

Sydney even more so. Tommy Walsh; we know his story. Andrejs Everitt had played 36 in four years before going up there. Josh Kennedy had played 13 in two years. McGlynn 44 in four years. Mitch Morton had had two clubs for a total of 70-odd games in seven full years. Mumford wasn't first choice at Geelong before he went north. Richards was averaging 10 games a season. Rhyce Shaw had been at Collingwood for eight years and only once played 20 games in a season.

Sure, say that these clubs were better than us at picking up recycled players. But it's just wrong to say that all their work was already done for them.

Seriously - complete crap ? Gunston was very highly regarded by the Crows and would have been a regular the following year had he not walked out on them. Guerra had attitude problems and pulled his finger out because he realised he was on his last chance, and arguably was a regular the year before. I will give you Spangher and Simpkin - both of them were true fringe players - and still are. Let's not forget Burgoyne, Lake, Gibson who were all regulars. The regulars they targeted are still regulars - the fringe players still fringe.

What about the swans, all fringe. Not now....
Sounds pretty close to crap to me...